- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
- framework@lemmy.ml
- cross-posted to:
- technology@lemmy.ml
- framework@lemmy.ml
Image description: Image shows batches 1, 2 and 3 sold out for the Ryzen 7 7840HS which costs $1,399.
For now both DIY and prebuild edition (all configurations) are in batch 4 which ships in late Q4 2023.
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Big-yet-thin, affordable Ryzen laptops with the option to add a real GPU to, that are just as upgradeable (component wise, if not market-availability wise) as a desktop?
Demand is high. Demand will remain high.
I can’t be the only one waiting to see more “real people” reviews of production units before plunking down money. I don’t upgrade laptops frequently and I don’t want to buy something buggy (i.e. Linux compatibility for wifi, ACPI, battery life, etc).
And while I’m waiting, I haven’t looked into a good answer to the USB-C dock story for the AMD versions. I see a lot of ambiguous statements about USB4 “being Thunderbolt” but not a lot of concrete statements on compatibility and capability.
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Previous products took much longer for batches to sell out. Even the AMD framework 13 laptops didn’t sell this fast and they were the #1 thing the community had been asking for for about a year.
We (sadly) can’t tell how many units are in a batch. But we can tell that demand is far exceeding their expectations.
At this point idk if it’s exceeding their expectations, they just literally don’t have enough money to invest into more production yet.
Hopefully that problem will become more and more alleviated as they sell more and more devices.
Yeah can’t imagine that will remain a problem for too much longer if they continue to sell out like this
Their website crashed shortly after pre-orders went live. Could be a coincidence, could be high demand. Could also be crappy server infrastructure.
If you find the Linus tech tips video on Linus’s investment in the company, you might see why. Very interesting!
I thought it was insane that they take apart a fully built laptop to sell the diy version.
It’s way more work for Framework, but they charge less for the diy model.
I wonder if user comfort with modifying internals on the diy model creates more sales in the long run, because customers can visualize what they’d be doing when installing an upgrade.
I think the DIY model doesn’t include some components in the base price and that is why it is cheaper. Once you configure it to include other components it is a comparable price.
It seems the DIY option will only really save you money if you already have those components or if you buy those other components cheaply somewhere else.
I mean the easiest save on components is Ram and SSD storage. its far cheaper in the market then at asking price.
That definitely seemed the like the most jank part of their production line. You’d hope they come up with a fix for that. I wouldn’t be surprised if a significant portion of their sales are DIY, so getting that right has to be pretty important.
DIY or not they still need to test the laptop fully assembled before shipping so I don’t see a way around that.
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Yeah, how many batches have sold through doesn’t tell us anything unless we know how many are in each one.
I’m guessing Linus’s investment is safe then :)
His investment is probably part of why these are such a hot commodity.
The media presence and advertising from LMG is worth a crazy amount. His followers are the exact target audience of this device and as long as he’s showing off what they’re up to I think they’ll continue to sell like this.
Spot on. I would have no idea Framework existed without LTT, and I likely would not have clicked into the article or comments on this thread, either.
Never heard of them before this but the name and sold out had me curious so I looked them up. If I was in the market for laptop this would for sure be my top choice. I greatly prefer my desktop and anything I can’t do there I just do on my phone so everytime I get the itch for a laptop I regret buying it because it ends up just sitting.
And we as tech enthusiasts will also recommend them to others, for obvious reasons.
I currently own a macbook and i am scared of the day thered any issues with it
I’m really happy they’re seeing good demand. Fully upgradable laptops have been a dream of mine for years and I’ve been thinking when it’s time for me to replace mine, the Framework would be at the top of my list.
My only hesitation points when I first heard about the laptop was whether the company would survive long enough to make upgrades/accessories and whether the main board upgrades would actually work. The concept was, as you say, a dream.
Both of those concerns have faded away for me, my next laptop is pretty much 100% going to be a framework. Just need to stop spending money on dumb stuff so I can afford it…
Next time I need to replace my laptop I’ll be getting a Framework if possible. I hate having old electronics go to waste and my devices are usually still in very good condition, just the internals can’t keep up, so this sort of laptop was made for me. Plus I love tinkering with electronics and some of those modules look interesting!
Same here. I’m not ready to refresh yet, so I’m cheering on the current runs selling out so I’ll get a chance later. Glad to hear they’re having success with the 16 inch model.
Hell yeah Framework deserves all the goodness coming their way. I have an ASUS that’s serving me well for now, but I think when I go to replace it next year, they’re the ones I’m going to. Hopefully by then, they have AMD boards in the smaller sizes.
I believe Ryzen 7000 boards are already available for preorder in the 13 inch. Preorders are supposed to ship starting late 2023, so you should be all good by next year.
Oh hey that’s great news. Thanks for the update. I hadn’t seen any news about that recently, though admittedly I haven’t been looking.
I’m glad to see the reception on this. Framework is doing a lot of good to help drive consumers toward more repairable options, and drive competitors to hopefully do the same in the long run. Hats off to them.
They really do produce great hardware, in my dev team we either use MacBooks or Framework Laptops depending on what everyone wants to use. Upgradability is great and everyone is really happy with their device so far.
can confirm. Work thinkpad broke a year ago and switched to a framework (had the exact same price for the same specced thinkpad, but was fully repeairable copared to thinkpads).
And just last week I received my personal 13gen intel framework.
Great hardware
Batches 4 and 5 are also sold out by now.
Meanwhile, batches 8 and 9 have been added to the list. Looks like they did not anticipate this kind of success.
I’m glad they’re doing well, sadly Framework isn’t available in my country, otherwise I’d consider them for my next laptop.
waits excitedly for Framework to ship in my region
It’s fine, my current laptop has a couple of years life left in it. They’ll open up orders by then right? Right?
To find the answer , stay tune we’ll be right after this commercial break 📺.
( Later on, story was told that they never returned… )
You can also buy MiniPCs from bee-link or others with same AMD or others powerful ones for cheap, if you don’t absolutely need a laptop
You could also buy soup from the grocery store if you’re hungry.
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Fuck, I’m just trying to buy clothes.
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I want to continue quoting the video but people not in the know would just think I’m being rude to you haha
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look, if you don’t judge me for my preferences, I won’t judge yours
Yeah? That’s a perfectly valid thing to do.
Thanks for validating my lunch choices.
How many is a “batch” I wonder?
5
Lol guessing it’s a tiny bit more than 5.
I actually have no idea what Framework is.
Check it out! It’s a great, modular, and repairable laptop with comparable prices for the specs in regards to mainstream laptops.
You can even upgrade the motherboard, which means as long as the company doesnt go under you can just infinitely reuse and upgrade it kinda like a tower PC.
and you keep the company from going under by buying their products so buy it next time if you need a new laptop and can afford it =) and make sure to upgrade whenever you need it =)
Check the frame.work website. User repairable and upgradeable. Neat part is removable swappable ports so you configure the sides of your laptop how you like it.
You should search up some videos on them in YouTube
I have their 13" laptop and love it! The ability to open it up and repair stuff has been awesome like I replaced the speakers in mine. With the macbook I had prior I would have had to buy an entire new laptop just to upgrade my speakers.
I want one so fucking badly, but I can’t really justify the cost. But I could… Just… Get one anyway. Somebody help me.
Also, when will they be delivered? Not that quickly I suppose? Edit: I can’t read apparently.
I do badly want to like these… but I don’t see the point.
Repairability wise mid range ThinkPad is nearly as good. Only major difference is I think Framework claims they will release schematics… and as someone who actually does component level repairs I’ve seen promises like this work I’ve or twice, but then they stop maintaining their data or pays get hard to get rendering the gesture null.
Upgrade wise… I switch machines every 4 to 6 years… at which point the chassis has a bit of wear and tear.
Spec wise I buy what I need and add a little headroom with the ThinkPad.
Spare parts are good for ThinkPad and Lenovo actually has component replacement guides that no one seems to mention or know about.
And when I do upgrade I appreciate having a complete spare machine.
I think it’s also not unreasonable to assume my style of buying and upgrading is not uncommon.
This leaves the Framework very few hardware advantages and nil price advantages.
I still think they’re a great idea, but I don’t see any practical benefit over a sensible alternative.
Genuine question… Have I missed anything?
Well, framework has one cool side-effect of their repair-friendly approach: their laptop mainboard can be used as an SBC. I’ve seen a few projects use it in this way, and I believe they even sell an official plastic case for it. It’s a well-documented piece of computer hardware that is regularly refreshed and can be fitted easily into slim chassis.
Oh, and another cool thing is that their screens have magnetic bezels. ThinkPads are a PITA to fix if you just want to replace an LCD panel; framework makes it trivial to keep the upper chassis and only replace the part that’s actually broken. That’s the real pitch with Framework: replace anything easily and upgrade your computer for only the cost of the mainboard or socketable component. Some of their newer devices have a socketable PCIe expansion bay, which could be used for things like socketable GPU upgrades.
I just had a look at their motherboards, nearly AUD$1000 shipped for the cheapest available 12th gen board… board only.
Just bought a ThinkPad with 16gb dual channel and 1TB nvme for $60 less than this and it has an on-site warranty.
I love the idea but the pricing is insane.
Just pricing the minimum possible 16" machine came to AUD$2400 with no ram, no SSD, no OS, no numpad and no charger.
Add all this things, even self bought your looking at over $3k or even $4k if you want the GPU
I wish them luck… They’re going to need it.
I just got a pre-order for one of the Framework 16’s. The issue Framework has at the moment is scale. Lenovo has the size and customer base to produce an absolute insane number of laptops compared to Frameworks operation. So cost is going to be 30, 50 or even 100% more than the big boys like Asus, Lenovo or HP. They won’t ever get that scale unless people believe in it and buy one.
However, there’s one other thing which I justified my purchase with. I could buy a Lenovo ThinkPad X1 Extreme with the i7-2700H, 32gb of ram and a RTX 3050ti for $AUD4,929. Or I could buy the Framework 16 with Ryzen 7840HS, 32GB ram, Radeon 7700s for $AUD3,916. Both of these processors and GPUs are similarly speced, in fact I believe the benchmarks had the Framework slightly ahead, but the framework comes out over $AUD1000 cheaper. Yes the Thinkpad X1 Extreme is their uber premium model, but just as you pay a premium for Lenovo’s business grade hardware, you pay a premium for Frameworks repairability.
As a person who works in e-waste, probably off by magnitide when it comes to how much companies with leasing divisions (Dell/HP/Lenovo) produces over companies that dont (Pc part manufacturers like Asus/MSI/Gigabyte). Its obscene how much desktops/laptops go straight to resale/recycling.
Just popped that Lenovo into my small business cart and got $1000 under what you’ve mentioned (assumed you went with upgraded screen, the 60hz 300nits screen is a piece of crap and shouldn’t exist in a machine of that calibre), but even at that price the framework does seem more attractive.
No doubt if you take money out of the equation it’s a good option, but if you’re on a budget you could hunt down a similar specced Lenovo Legion or something for a bit less.
I believe the price difference came from you being part of the Lenovo business store, I didn’t use that the last time and just used the standard consumer store.
I just re-entered the specs on the consumer store for the X1 Extreme Gen 5 16" and got 5,214 Australian Dollars. Otherwise it might be if you aren’t in Australia, did you get the local dollar amount and convert to AUD or did you use the Australian store directly?
Anyway, doesn’t change the main point as you say that if you are bargain hunting, the Framework 16 isn’t the way to go but it’s still a good laptop from what we can see. I don’t mind spending more for the framework since I believe in what it stands for. Plus who knows what might come with upgrades down the line.
Maybe Australia’s offerings are different, but I see this board with an 11th gen i5 for USD $299. There’s a ton in the $300-500 price range with several different configurations. That’s really the interesting range for doing hobby projects.
I deliberately ignored 11th gen, is old enough that refurbished equivalents can be bought for the same price on eBay with a case, power supply, ram, storage, wifi and OS licence for the same money.
With the framework board you get none of that.
And as for it being an option for embedded use, there are far better options.
I know this all sounds negative… But I’m truly trying to like the idea. I can’t see it catching and reaching the mass needed to become more sustainable at this point.
It’s just going to remain a niche untill they die… Or maybe they can survive on the small numbers? (Which I think would be great by the way, I’m very proud choice, just not a fan of the price!)
Honestly, I’m impressed they’re selling to Australia.
My opinion:
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Framework has a good track record and I would give them the benefit of the doubt until proven otherwise. (Concerning upgradeability)
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laptops are getting more and more powerful and I like the idea of treating them similar to a desktop
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as a ThinkPad user you probably know how popular especially old ThinkPads are, because of the ability to mod them
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you might buy a new laptop every few years but the point above proves that there will be people interested in a second hand laptop, therefore reducing waste
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there will always be a market for good quality and customer friendly products and the existence of framework is great for competition (for the end user)
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they support the open source mentality, even tried to help to bring coreboot to their laptops. Even though that failed they’re keeping an eye on openSIL
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overall I’m more of Linux instead of Windows, FOSS instead of corporate closed software, Lemmy instead of reddit and framework/system76/… instead of Lenovo/… kind of person. I see it partly as a fight for “freedom” if you so will.
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I think that swappable GPUs are the killer feature. A 7 year old CPU is fine, a 7 year old GPU not so much.
Seven years is a bit harsh, but upgrading the gpu once in 3-4 years would have saved you money and electronic waste.
7 year isnt that bad. I like to always say if you vare about how hardware ages as a gamer, match the consoles of the current generation.
So any decent 8c/16t cpu will likely age fine for the foreseeable generation. With gpus, ot was a matter of matching what the consoles have reserved for vram (10-14gb depending on how much ram the game reserves for itself and the OS). Its why 8 gb vram gpus are aging like milk with the current gen.
I’m still running a PC from 2012. It’s seriously fine, I only started feeling it last year. Looking to upgrade next month.
Still remains to be seen how cost effectively the actual upgrade can be done.
Replacement/ upgrade GPUs are not a new thing and have failed to take off in the past.
MXM was the name of the form factor… Info for the curious… https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module
Not asking much… Just if they just would add a trackpoint, a decent mechanical keyboard (don’t mind if this adds 0.5cm to the thickness) and offer a black chassis… I feel they would really be the new home of former IBM ThinkPad users which are more and more disappointed about Lenovos decisions to try to compete with Macs.
While I love my mech getting one included means a full redesign for the benefit of just a small subgroup.
That said, I did notice their keyboards run QMK firmware, was very impressed by that.
Black is must, I have to admit that shiny look is a put off for me.
Track point needs to happen too.
And my biggest compliant for my ThinkPad is the ctrl and FN keys being in shitty places.
Yea, differenc chassis is something they could improve.
“but then they stop maintaining their data or pays get hard to get rendering the gesture null.”
“I’d like “Translations” for $100, Alex.”
I’m guessing it’s supposed to be “parts get hard to get”, which is accurate. It doesn’t matter if you have the schematic that shows your
SB00C793FGX64 rev3needs replacing if the part isn’t manufactured anymore.
I run a Thinkpad and my partner is an early adopter of the v1 Framework. She had quite a few early adopter issues on her leading me to believe the hardware polish isn’t there 100% (eg hinges too weak they had to release an upgrade, this broke the display cable and led to BIOS issues, etc).
I mostly agree, the one place I think Thinkpad could use more maintainability is in mainboard compatibility. Framework promises (TBD) Mainboard compatibility across upgrades, we’ll see if they deliver.
