The attrition is slow, but every user lost to Linux is likely lost forever. After a year or so of totally free software, who is going to build a new windows compatible PC, buy a Windows 11 license, and pay for subscription service just to do word processing, or play a few incompatible games?
Windows completely overestimates people’s willingness to throw out their laptop or PC just to get a new OS paintjob. For every person who does it, another one will leave their ecosystem forever.
deleted by creator
Old Brazilian hack to use Windows: just don’t buy it.
Thanks for exporting this to the US, I made extensive use of it ~1999-2008
How does that help making using it less painful?
It’s more painful when you have to pay more than a month’s worth salary and it’s shit (Windows 11 Pro is R$1600, minimum monthly salary is R$1412, around $280)
I think I didn’t buy a Windows license ever. Got Win 7 free from my college and always could upgrade for free to the next version. I never used MS Office, mostly did use the Google suite. Games were the only thing that kept me, especially since I got more privacy continuous over the past few years.
I’m currently dual booting Win 11 and Linux mint as a test phase. Actually just running windows for the proprietary phone client I need for work. Otherwise I’m newly exclusively using LM right now. Though I might make the switch to EndeavourOS for it’s rolling release approach and AUR.
Only thing I really hate is that there are some proprietary software like ICUE, L-Connect a proper scanning software for my printer including OCR (there is a version for Linux but it doesn’t include OCR) or shitty driver support for my graphics card. But none of those are issues coming from Linux itself but rather from the lack of support from the developers. Also, I love DLSS and Ray tracing but seriously… fuck Nvidia.
For the OCR, have you tried tesseract? For printed documents it can take image input and generate a pdf with selectable text. I don’t OCR much but it has been useful when I tried a few times.
You might be able to have a script that takes the scanner input into tesseract and output a pdf. It only works on a single image per run so I had to make script to run it on whole pdf by separating it and stitching it back together.
@Senseless I’d just like to add that there are GUI frontends to tesseract that make things a lot easier. I particularly like gImageReader, but there are plenty of different GUIs for people with different tastes!
RGB isn’t really the issue for me. At least not when using icue. I need it to control my AIO / fans / temps
Nice. I’d appreciate some feedback, if you like. Currently in the middle of switching to EndeavourOS as a Arch noob. Am I allowed so say “I use arch btw” now?
Windows licenses AFAIK are already rarely bought on their own. The vast majority of users get one by having it bundled to a new device they purchase.
Unless its corporate, because then you are paying for windows separate from the PC, and user based licensing for server access, and subscription fees for office. and EOS W10 fees coming
I just buy them on eBay for cheap if I need one.
I’m never daily driving Windows again, but im not sure if I will ever be free of dual booting for some games.
I know at least one person who switched back to Windows but claimed there was no choice. Maybe the people arround that person making the switch to Linux initially does matter. And if they are (still) Windows users, it can happen at the first sign of trouble; especially when they are stubborn Windows users.
Guys, there are people out there Windows is the only OS they want to use despite all the problems.
I’ve made the switch over a decade ago. Ubuntu was the gateway drug. I have to use windows at work, but that’s it.
That’s how you know Linux made it. If people don’t switch back you are doing something right.
i honestly just wanna express my gratitude to all the people who made linux what it is today over the last decades, the experience is incomparable to the one i had when first installing debian in 2007. i wish i were more skilled in order to meaningfully give back to this community.
and to all the newbies: thanks for joining our ranks! please dont be scared by the rather elitist attitude that some users display. we secretly all love you!
If you want to give back but don’t have coding skills, you can always be nice and help onboard new users! There’s always been this attitude of ‘linux is better’ immediately followed by ‘rtfm n00b’ when users try to get started. A more sympathetic crowd would go a long way.
thanks for the piece of mind! while i do have some skills due to my work, its not remotely enough to work on linux. im gonna be a recruiter then…
Probably not a recruiter, but supporting those who are trying to switch or are needing support on forums like here or other places. Help them find solutions, be kind to them when they are struggling, encourage them if another user is derisive.
It’s a good thing tfm is so good. I don’t use Arch but I’ve used the Arch Wiki so many times to solve my problems.
Yeah! There’s a lot more to open source projects than code. Even if all you do is edit the docs for punctuation and spelling mistakes you’re helping.
I think I first installed linux some time around 2009. I’m only just now starting to contribute to libraries, unrelated to linux. Its such a cool feeling growing along side the open source movement.
I’d like to thank my Christian Rabbi Bill Clinton…
The games I play work just fine under Linux. I’m EXTREMELY thankful for every single person that has contributed to Linux or the apps they can use.
If I wasn’t such a monkey I’d help any way I could.
I’m not such a monkey, and I could probably contribute if I put my mind to it, but I just don’t have the time… Instead I try to contribute documentation and money when I can. Everything helps!
Translate!
Sorry Americans…
Once I got the steam deck and saw basically all my games could run in linux, I made the change fully on my laptops and desktop computers.
There’s not a single windows left in my house.
I’m a former IT Manager and system admin. And I am so fucking frustrated and pissed at Microsoft’s bullshit that I want nothing to do with them, and nothing of theirs in my house.
I cannot believe I’m going to say this: But from and enterprise point of view, I Miss Balmer. Nadella is a fucking useless wannabe Steve Jobs tool who has zero concept of what made Microsoft what it is. There’s horror stories of dealing with Microsoft on a corporate level that attributed to me having a mental breakdown.
I feel the same way. I’m not a pro programmer or anything, but we can still be positive members of the community and help out users and share why Linux is a better alternative, and that’s gotta count for something! :)
Writing a good bug report is oftentimes all the help that’s needed.
Spez started it all for me.
Spez shit the bed and now I run linux.
Critical support to spez
At this point I use Linux for everything except my music production hobby (Mac for that) and even then I use Renoise and BitWig on Linux. I’ve been on Linux since 1996 but I haven’t been 100% Linux until the past two years.
Fuck yeah Bitwig. I mainly chose it so I’d have the flexibility to move to Linux in the future. That and the unmatched sounds design and modulation abilities.
I bought Abelton Live 12 before I tried Bitwig and now I have a bit of buyer’s remorse. Bitwig and Renoise are so good. Bitwig is also far more inspiring IMHO. I couldn’t get into Reaper though.
Yeah inspiring is a great word for it. I managed to get Bitwig via rent-to-own.
100% agree, bitwig also supports Pipewire! I have multiple USB audio interfaces having access to all of them in bitwig is awesome.
I’m a newbie bedroom music producer but I’ve actually had more luck with my audio setup on Linux than I did on Windows 10.
I’m using an older Scarlet 2i2 to record guitar and back on Windows I was always having driver issues or Windows randomly resetting the sample rate making my DAW freak out at me.
On Linux it just works right away without me needing to download or tweak anything. Only part of my setup that needed tweaking was using yabridge for a few Windows VSTs.
If you are mostly recording your guitar play and aren’t using a lot of plugins, then Linux is a great solution. I highly recommend Bitwig as a DAW on Linux. If you’re on a tight budget, Reaper is also a great solution on Linux. It didn’t vibe with me (Bitwig is my favorite DAW), but a lot of people love it. I hear that the Reaper community is very active and inviting and the DAW is very customizable.
I used Reaper back on Windows but switched to Ardour for Linux, it’s abit weird to get used to but I’m getting the hang of it.
DAW?
Digital Audio Workstation
Ty
Music production software, e.g. FL Studio (Fruity Loops), Ableton Live, Logic Pro, Garage band (I guess?), Bitwig Studio, Pro Tools, Studio One, Reaper, Reason, etc.
and Ty.
We need a bedroom music producer community.
Sorry for hijacking this beautiful conversation you talented gentlemen are having, but can help me out?
I wanted to learn electronic music creation. I learnt very briefly how fl studio works, and then got busy due to my workload. Now I want to give it a go again. I heard llms is good for Linux, but I don’t understand how to get various instrument samples like fl studio. How do I set it all up? Can you point me to any good resources. I am also not committed to lmms and am open to suggestions.
I cannot comment on LLMs for music generation but, if you are starting from scratch, there are a few methods that I think are interesting.
- Sequencer/Groovebox: Hardware like the Elektron Digitakt and Polyend Play+ use the “piano roll” style generation that you find in most DAWs. How you import and edit samples, then sequence them in the piano roll, varies from one to the other. Fortunately, you can find a lot of video tutorials for most DAWs and hardware based sequencers on YouTube.
- Music Trackers: Whether it is a hardware tracker like the Polyend Tracker or the M8, or a software tracker like Renoise, this type of sample edit and sequencing really lends itself to electronic music. Plenty of tutorials on YouTube.
- Samplers: Here you have hardware like the Roland SP404 MKii, the MPC One, and the Teenage Engineering EP133 KO II and DAWs like Native Instruments Maschine (also requires Maschine hardware). If you have a tablet, check out Koala Sampler. It might be the best $5 you’ll spend this year.
In my opinion, trackers are an extremely fast and powerful way to create electronic music. The main complaint people have is the learning curve since almost everything else uses the “piano roll” method. Since you are starting from scratch, that complaint doesn’t really apply because no matter what you select, you’ll have to learn from zero.
…I think the previous comment is mistyping LMMS software to LLM.
Ah.
Thank you kind sir. I meant the LMMS DAW. Can you recommend me a good DAW to start?
Depends on budget. Obviously you are familiar with FOSS offerings. Outside of FOSS, if you want a paid products for not too much money, then Reaper is a favorite and Renoise is VERY interesting. If money is no object but Linux compatibility is still a main concern, then Bitwig, 1000%. The top Bitwig package costs $399 but they also have more limited versions for $199 and $99.
PS: No matter what, Koala Sampler is worth the buy.
With The Finals finally enabling linux support in their anticheat, I not longer use windows for anything. It’s going fantastic.
I have, over the years, spent quite some money on (windows) VSTs. I’ve tried in the past to get them running on Linux, but with no success : even when the installer worked fine in wine, the tools used to get the VSTs to run using bitwig either introduced too much lag, or the sound was stuttering. Have you had some more success and if so, can you give me some pointers?
On Linux I use Bitwig for live guitar play and the Renoise music tracker for sample chop based beat making. Eventually everything I make on Linux goes to the Mac for the bulk of the finish work. I stuck with Mac for most music for the same reasons as you but also because I could not find anything that comes close to my M2 Max based system in a compact laptop format. Those Apple chips are crazy.
Using yabridge?
I’ll try that as soon as I can.
I don’t know the reason why I didn’t use it the last time I tried ( about 2 years ago?), maybe I didn’t find anyone mentioning yabridge at the time (I never asked, I just searched), maybe another reason.
But now I remember I ended up using Carla with an extension that let it use Windows plugins, which I would advise against.
If I get the VSTs that mean the most to me running well enough on Linux, then there’s nothing keeping me on Windows
Yabridge is the way to go. I used to use LinVST in the past but with very mixed results. With yabridge, ~90% of my plugins work perfectly, including Native Instruments plugins which have always been my favourites.
As I own Komplete 14 Ultimate that’s very good to hear! Thanks!
Just know that Wine >9.4 is currently bugged and will not work with yabridge. There is a discussion on Github about installing 9.4 and holding it from updating.
I’m wondering this too. There’s only a couple windows VSTs in my work flow but I’d hate to lose them. Someday if I can ever get my PoS laptop to boot from a live USB I’ll try.
Was LinVST among the tools you tried? It works really well for my purchased VSTs.
I did try LinVST, but at the time I couldn’t get the converted VSTs to run in anything I tried. Maybe I was being stupid at the time, or maybe it wasn’t as stable at the time compared to now, but thanks for reminding me, as now I will try to use it again the next time I try to make the switch, together with yabridge.
Wait, you do or do not just use Linux for music production?
What he said is that he does the majority of his hobby on a Mac, but also installed music apps on Linux.
Apple managed to grab a good chunk of the market by making some well-functioning creative apps early on, but I’m not sure if they really have any advantage over Windows anymore.
Music production on Linux is still somewhat behind, due to limited software. People get paid for making that stuff on other platforms, so Linux developers are scarce.
Some of it is also moving to tablets and phones these days, so the kind of person to buy a Mac only for easy music production will probably just get a dongle for their iPad.
You’ll still need a pc/mac for the full studio experience. Not because of software, but because its difficult to rig an entire music studio into a touchscreen with a single usb port. I mean, sure it’s possible, but you don’t want to. Latency, multiple monitors and a shit load of controllers make it physically
impossibleunreliable.On the bright side for Linux, music production is actually very low demanding, so it makes perfect sense to run an old laptop with a low spec distro and still have the same options as the state-of-the-art rig. Young starving artists will probably go that way instead of buying Mac.
Music production on Linux is still somewhat behind, due to limited software.
Audio support has historically been dogshit, and still to this day can be incredibly finicky. Audio latency has also typically been by far the best on Mac OS. But I think lately with Linux with the exact right combination of hardware and software it can be better. Can.
https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2F1c923fvcwyla1.jpg
Apple didn’t make Logic originally, they bought it. Same with Final Cut. This is also a pretty short-sighted take on the history of Macs and creative apps which actually stretches back to early 90s. Windows was originally pretty terrible with all kinds of multimedia and it wasn’t until XP that they finally really even started trying.
Of course it’s brief. Lots of stuff happened, but saying that XP was the first is also wrong. Adobe Audition used to be a freeware program for Win95 called CoolEdit… in the 30+years that Adobe has owned it, they have only added VST effects…
As of today, you can make music on any kind of hardware, even obscure handheld devices from before smartphones, and they’ll perform better than the original Logic. There’s nothing technical setting Apple’s “industry standard” apart from freeware these days.
Yes and no. I use Bitwig mostly for free play (guitar and keyboards) and Renoise for beat making. Everything else is on my Mac.
At this rate we might just see the Year of the Linux DesktopTM on our deathbeds!
Easy. Every year is the Year of the Linux Desktop™.
the real Year of the Linux Desktop™ was the friends we made along the way.
The year of the Linux desktop was 2005
1991?
Do you really need that the majority of users use the same OS you use? It’d be nice but not necessary at all.
It helps a lot. Because then, a Linux support won’t be such an afterthought, and you wouldn’t have to deal with stuff like popular games adding anti-cheat that bans Linux users.
Right now, some game developers aren’t even willing to enable EAC Linux support, which is like a one checkbox they need to enable for it to work.
I hope to see it reach 10% within my lifetime
Maybe by 2050
Uhh 2030 imo
If you include ChromeOS that’s very likely.
Made the switch this year, I’m not going back.
What’s odd to me is the cultural zeitgeist has moved to folks being aware that Microsoft (& Google & Apple) is collecting data on them to being the butt of jokes, yet those folks aren’t adopting an alternatives. With over a decade on Linux I’m now pretty out of touch with the opposite feeling. I guess the closest analog I have is not being able to realistically leave Android behind, but that is more hardware than software (banking app already don’t let you root or otherwise flash your device so I have given up hope in trying with them).
A few days ago I tried to install Windows 11 on the PC of a friend. It didn’t work because of missing SATA drivers. Anyway, I was shocked how many points there are where Microsoft or Apple (we used his mac to create the USB drive) tries to sell something (buy pro version of fan controll now) or wants your permissions to gather all your data.
I convinced him to let me install debian. When it came to creating the default user he was hesitant to use his full name, because telemetry :D
I mean I don’t really see the point of using your real name on your system unless you often forget who you are. I would praise my friend tho for having the correct skeptical reaction even if it should be relatively harmless.
I also think it’s a healthy attitude but at the same time it’s sad that people can’t trust their own devices any longer.
Using your real name can have benefits, like metadata in office documents or things like that. If you are sure your devices are yours and secure, there shouldn’t be a reason not to use your own name. Unfortunately this isn’t the case anymore if you are using anything else but Linux
Many jurisdictions recognize pen names & other aliases which a username is & could also be put in the document. Many might prefer not inserting their real name into things by default & if that privacy is desired as default, all the more reason to skip the real name.
If a machine is going to have multiple users (all my computers have multiple profiles for family members) all those users have to be called something, and I’ve not got the energy or the creativity to come up with fun and funky usernames for every system when my actual name is more than good enough.
Username is required for the home folder & login; name isn’t required for anything
(banking app already don’t let you root or otherwise flash your device so I have given up hope in trying with them)
Idk why this myth keeps getting peddled. You can use any banking app on any custom ROM, rooted or unrooted (though I see no point in rooting these days). And even if an banking app blocked you from using their app…the mobile website exists if you really need mobile access to your bank.
mobile website exists if you really need mobile access to your bank.
This isn’t actually always true.
Yeah my girlfriend’s online-only business account can only be used via their proprietary app.
Been a royal pain in the arse for her.
That’s not true. Specially with older banks, they don’t let you run their shitty apps on rooted phones. And some younger banks don’t even let you do certain tasks on the website, they are mobile first.
No rooted phones for our App. No travel to specific locals and countries either. we hvae black lists of Regions of the world where you simply cannot login to your accounts due to overwhelming security concerns and lack of extrajudicial remediation should there be fraud.
I haven’t rooted in a long time. What would make the hassle of going to my bank’s website worthwhile these days?
This isn’t a “myth” they detect both root & custom ROMs so even if you wanted to use an unrooted custom ROM you can’t. Rooting your phone just to skirt around them should be the opposite of what they want as there is some security implications to rooting your phone. And the current solutions are all temporary workarounds til the banking apps find a new way to partner with Google to prevent modifications of any kind.
In my country, at least one bank has shutdown & discontinued their website which is often just the first domino before others start doing it too. My bank is slow to adopt tech, but their site was created to detect IE and Netscape Navigator. I would assume they would kill that website before upgrading it to actually work on the modern web where a fixed CRT isn’t the only screen size.
European banks require strong security. Even a web-based login requires 2FA using the bank’s mobile app - so if that app won’t run, well, no banking for you today!
banking app already don’t let you root or otherwise flash your device so I have given up hope in trying with them
You can get around that pretty easily by fooling SafetyNet / Play Integrity and hiding root from those apps. My phones have all been rooted for years and I never had issues with banking apps. I don’t even run any google services anymore and the apps I use are fine with that.
I would not say easily. And even if you pass SafetyNet, your banking app may still not work. I have one, and I haven’t figured out what it checks for, maybe LineageOS name or something. Would probably have to tear the apk apart to find out.
Do you use Magisk? I assume you have done the following already?
- Enable Zygisk & the DenyList
- (If Google apps are installed, deny all Google apps root access)
- Deny the app in question root access
- Install PlayIntegrityFix on newer devices OR SafetyNetFix on older devices (don’t install both)
- Reboot, force stop app and clear storage/cache
- (Check if it works with this and this)
That should do it for all apps that do not require strong integrity.
Thanks for the list. I didn’t have PlayIntegrityFix. Unfortunately it does not seem to be helping with the app.
First one doesn’t pass all checks, but the second one does.
Have you managed to get Google Wallet/Pay working?
Yes, on my old phone it worked fine with the SafetyNetFix. I use microG now so Google Wallet is not implemented (yet).
Right. It’s always going to be an arms race that isn’t going to get easier as Google announces the next version will require Play Services & Play Store. Maybe someone will find a workaround, but there will be constant downtime in between these gaps. You’d think they would allow someone technically savvy enough to pass as they are probably rooted/custom ROM for a reason… but no.
I’ve since switched to carrying a separate credit-card-sized apparatus for payments. It’s called a debit card + bank notes folded over. Transfers, I use their ancient website that detects Netscape Navigator 4 & disables paste & their encoding doesn’t allow English punctuation, but it works in a pinch. The hard part will be pushing against cashless as the banks & government want all the reporting/data collection—something customers & vendors aren’t the keenest towards but ultimately I think would acquiesce under enough pressure which I am fearful of.
Previous phone it worked up until it didn’t. New phone I left unrooted since that was the error they gave me. Now without the root/jailbreak error, I get a useless generic error & the app crashes. I’ve been too lazy to root it just choosing alternative payment methods.
just choosing alternative payment methods.
Probably the better method, no bank is worth going through all that hassle.
I’m using Kitsune Mask right now and it’s working pretty well on hiding root from my banking app and Google pay.
banking app already don’t let you root or otherwise flash your device
It’s unfortunately only developed for the Pixel series of phones, but I’ve been using my banking apps on GrapheneOS with no issues.
Yep. If it doesn’t have a headphone jack, I don’t want the phone so no to Pixels.
Is that with a locked bootloader and sandbox google play?
yup
Majority of people just dont care about being spied upon unless it directly affects them somehow, at which point its too late for that person. But others having data on you wont likely directly affect you at the moment so not enough people get burned by it for general attitude to change. Smart people understand that all this can very easily change and prepare by not allowing all of their information be available for questionable people to use. Others make fun of them for this and call them crazy until one day they suddenly aren’t so crazy any more.
They actually do care tho about the tracking—if they weren’t privacy wouldn’t be included in marketing like it is now. They are just more willing to accept it as a fact of life rather than dealing with it (or don’t know that they can do something or how to start).
We should make this easier for folks ’cause every email I send from a non-data-collection host usually ends up on a Google or Microsoft server, etc. Every silly Discord chatroom you join, or Facebook page you like has the same ramifications.
I think we need to do some really difficult investigations that essentially can show concrete proof of how this affects people:
"See you were looking up vacations and insurance right? Well you signed up to your car’s connected service, you have an Alexa in your house, and a smart TV and a fridge all talking to each other…and they all worked together to put together a profile of how much you make and how old you are and everything else…
…so your neighbor looked up the same insurance and vacations and is paying about $200 less for the exact same of each, because they use AdBlock and don’t allow spy devices in their house."
And then finish with the real kicker:
“I know you didn’t ask to participate, but we just scraped all this information about you off the Internet and didn’t even need to ask you. We had to ask your neighbor to participate though.”
Majority of people just dont care about being spied upon unless it directly affects them somehow,
Remind them that strangers know their porn fetishes, and see if that changes their minds.
Then there’s always Linux Mint for those looking to transition away from M$ or even all the other innumerable flavours of Linux.
I bought Windows 11 early on so I’m still using it to justify the purchase on my desktop, but I moved my OEM licensed laptop over to Debian a few months ago.
Can confirm that as soon as Windows 11 is no longer supported or it gets slightly more ass, I’ll be moving my desktop over to Debian or Arch or something as well.
With the advent of gaming becoming so much more accessible on linux either through native support or through something like proton, I am very hard pressed to find any reason to stay.
I bought two Windows 8 Pro key for $20 each at the peak of it’s hate. I’m reusing those bad boys until they stop being accepted, and when that happens i’ll just ignore the water mark.
Massgrave msft activation script
Now that gaming is effectively a solved problem thanks to Proton, Adobe Lightroom is just about the only thing keeping my desktop PC on Windows. My laptop is already running Linux. I’ve tried the FOSS alternatives but none of them fits my workflow like Lightroom. This is a me problem more so than a problem with any of these pieces of software.
Try running those adobe apps on a windows virtual machine. Use KVM with virt-managet instead of virtualbox. If the performance is acceptable for you, now you can use Linux as the primary os and only use the VM for adobe apps. VM boots faster too because you can just hit suspend and resume it again later.
Curious as to why someone would downvote this?
Probably because the average user is not going to figure out how to spin a VM to run Lightroom lol. It’s also a bit clunky compared to just opening it.
I kinda assumed anyone who know how to install Linux on their laptop wouldn’t have too much problem figuring out how VM works
And that is one of the reasons Linux isn’t at a higher market share. Linux is actually incredibly easy to install. Even back in 2008 or so, it was easier to install than windows. The live CD would give you a full OS with an install button. If you could install windows 7 you could install Linux.
Asking a user to then install something like virtual box and understand virtual hardware and disk images is a step up from that. Not to mention the clunkiness of it all.
Adobe Lightroom is just about the only thing keeping my desktop PC on Windows
Have you tried any of these?
https://itsfoss.com/raw-image-tools-linux/Adobe Creative Cloud doesn’t work in CrossOver.
You can run Windows in a VM just make sure you install the virtio drivers from Fedora
It may or may not run in Wine, won’t hurt to try https://appdb.winehq.org/objectManager.php?sClass=application&iId=5839
Honestly with this rate we may even reach 5% on end of this year or maybe even earlier Proton FTW
Oh god, it’s happening. Everybody stay calm
YEAR OF THE LINUX DESKTOP!!1!11
Not until Netcraft confirms that Windows is dead
Maybe in 20 years, but I still doubt it. Everyone still buys PCs with Windows preinstalled and don’t even want to try Linux
In Russian it’s called Вендекапец and is a bit like second coming.
Maybe it’s not happening yet, but the bigger share it has, the faster it’ll grow.
And MS and Apple have only themselves to blame.
20 years ago, when the first Linux offensive happened, so to say, with Mandrake and a wave of Linux-native games and proprietary products, and IBM support, people would criticize Linux for having inconsistent chaotic UIs and experience. I was a Windows-only kid, so this is retrospective and people can correct me.
Not sure if anybody remembers, but then you could find most of Windows’ important settings in one place, and it looked so polished and patient and relaxing, both 2000 and XP.
Mac OS X was all about toys and shiny colors, but there was also the spirit of it being very polished and consistent and light and fresh.
So - Linux can still be very usable. While both MacOS and Windows even look cheap, I wonder how they managed to achieve that. Even Gnome doesn’t look cheap despite desperately trying to imitate MacOS. Not even speaking about ergonomics.
There is the theory, that to convince everyone of something, you have to invest very hard work to convince 4% of the populace of what you are doing is right. After that, the rest will learn to know of this by themselves.
Hopefully this is similar
I work in a very large hospital. I left for 3 years and just came back. When I went to open a document at work, it opened in Libre Office. I was pretty surprised that they ditched Microsoft Office for Libre. Makes financial sense to me, especially because most of our use-cases are simply opening and reading a document or slideshow. But I was still surprised they made that switch, and I doubt half of the employees honestly even notice that much
Now, they still run Windows Desktops, and I doubt that would ever switch in my lifetime. So no linux for us. But still pleasantly surprised at the step forward
Do you really think many people would notice cinnamon?
Probably not honestly, but switching to Libre Office was probably relatively easy and saves way more than it cost to pay IT to get it running on the network.
But switching the desktop environment for the entire hospital system, I could see being costly (in labor costs). Plus, I’m not sure that the EMR (Epic) would play nice, or any of the other various critical programs they use. Definitely a much different (and probably difficult) task to pull off smoothly, compared to switching Office for Libre
epic EMR on Linux
I see a PDF about somebody doing this with the back end in 2002, and it looms like an Intel ad. Its probably viable?
I think it really could be, if administration could understand the limitations of the IT side. And/or the corporate/entity cared to spend the money to make it happen (Like re-hiring the IT department so that everyone was on the same page).
I wish it could, but even I wouldn’t think that it would be financially efficient to try and “fix” what already works. And Epic is just one of the critical programs… there’s a lot of in-between.
If it were my hospital to run; I’d wanna test-run linux desktop in some capacity, because I bet it could be made to work better/cheaper. But it’s one of the most extensive hospitals in the state, with a LOT of everyone around using their services in some capacity. I can’t imagine them shelling out the extra capital to “decide” if there would be “long-term gains”. It’s not financially smart “short-term”, even if financially better "long-term.
But switching to Libre Office? I was surprised. Maybe one day we’ll get there
epic is one of the critical programs
Okay but they… It… At least the back end works on Linux? Or did twenty two years ago, since before some of your younger staff were probably born, according to the first result of my single web search? I think the front end does too? You know computers with different operating systems can talk to each other, right? Yeah you should be sure, and that’s why you set up a test computer in a back room somewhere to be absolutely personally sure.
I understand that its not your decision, I, um, can’t refute that part (I’d like to argue it though? For fun?)
Maybe the entire regime of ‘ownership’ especially of such an important public utility so many people rely on, like a fucking hospital cannot, in real terms, be privately owned? It is the property of the people, of the community it is in, and as such, and as that it is the year of the Linux desktop, you should be conducting a covert assassination campaign against windows partisans on the IT staff and gradually reclaiming that department for the people while making absolutely no other changes to things like billing or scheduling or policy regarding unhoused patients.
Then, when the unbelievers are purged, quietly install Linux with cinnamon on people’s computers, until it has finished, and you are victorious. Reap the software licensing fees you would have paid to Microsoft and 5% efficiency gains in one hospital to jump start the revolution from there. Use it to build a concentration camp for landlords, then…
Use it to build a concentration camp for landlords, then…
Lol, I love the gumption
I unfortunately don’t work IT in any capacity (it’s a hobby of mine), and have never even seen an IT personnel from work, in person. But I also work nights as a nurse (direct patient care), so it’s not really in my “scope of practice” to have much of a say. But one can still dream
Epic is developing Hyperspace for Mac, as well as “standalone” (access Hyperspace in a web browser). Plus many hospitals use Citrix virtualization, so I wouldn’t be surprised if Linux is theoretically possible (though unlikely due to jankiness).
We use Citrix, and that’s where my knowledge really lacks (networking, in general). I feel like it could absolutely be done, but the “jankiness” of every program trying to operate smoothly, seems like a large hurdle (at least to my unknowledgable self). I just can’t see a large hospital like mine, even trying to test-run something that may cause them more headaches than they already are used to. They have enough issues navigating/operating their current systems, as is lol. You can (almost literally) see the devide between admin expectations vs. practicality.
They’re barely interested in spending money on “staff retention”, let alone any software/networking “maybe’s”. They seem to lack the foresight for “long-term” gains, vs the “short-term”. Color me surprised
I could see them asking for unreasonable function, because they don’t understand. And then blaming IT for any hiccup.
And I don’t feel like a web-based Hyperspace would be entirely viable, as we already have protocols for if/when the internet or network goes down. There are computers throughout the hospital that are specifically utilized for any “network downtime”. Maybe they could use satellite or something as a “backup network-generator”, but I’m too unknowledgable to understand how that would work or if it would even be viable. I honestly don’t fully understand how the “downtime computers” operate, so that doctors’ orders can still be made… maybe they already use satellite for those? I have no idea
But definitely doesn’t seem like a “tomatoes/tomatas” situation to me, when comparing going full linux vs switching to Libre. I was just happy to see any kind of sensibility from them on the subject
https://www.kasmweb.com/
It’s a container streaming platform. So it can replace RDP, remoteapps, Citrix and potentially Hyperspace (if it runs in Wine). Plus it’s open source or can be paid for if you need support and hosting.You get a free Ubuntu container to mess around for a few minutes, it’s rather snappy for a VNC backend.
Uplifting to read this!
what happened in 2021 that started this trend?
Windows 11 got quite a few people to look into trying Linux
I personally didn’t think Win11 was that big of a downgrade over Win10, But I also didn’t like 10 to begin with so I didn’t need much convincing.
Windows 11 is what finally got me to permanently switch over to Linux too lol
W10 release is what moved me to linux. My worstation got noticeably slower for CAD and my wife’s laptop became a brick
I’m guessing there’s a reduced pool of desktop pc users, thus Linux users are now slightly bigger in proportion? There has been big advances regarding Linux adoption, too.
Probably a number of factors. Some I can think of that may have contributed:
- Steam Deck showing that gaming is possible on Linux.
- Windows 11’s hardware requirements pushing people to try Linux on older hardware.
- Microsoft’s recent enshittification of Windows by pushing Edge and AI so hard.
- KDE has been pushing to fix bugs and has gotten really good lately.
- Electron has made a lot of apps people really need super easy to build for Linux, so companies have started releasing apps for Linux.
- Flatpak has done the same, for distribution.
Did you dare to say something positive about Electron? Blasphemy!
Pandemic lockdown maybe? Everyone got bored a few months into 2020. By 2021 they finally figured out their wifi drivers 🤷
(I’m joking, I haven’t seriously struggled with wifi for a long time. I use Debian btw.)
I started with void cuz it sounded cool and it just shipped with the wifi drivers i needed. I got real lucky.
I started using Linux in 2021 never had any problems with drivers for anything. Debian also. It was just a pain in the ass to install until I figured out I had to download the iso with non free drivers or whatever. Glad they made this easier for Debian 12.
Now that I think about it, I actually first used Linux in 2021 too. For me it was because the laptop I had shipped with a HDD that was known for being prone to vibration failure, so while waiting for the warranty request to be approved I was running a persistent Ubuntu live USB
Proton making Linux better for gaming, which was the biggest excuse for holdouts. Steam deck showing you could not only game on Linux, but do so while sitting in a tree, with long term support implied by show of confidence from a large corporation.
Windows steepened its enshittification spiral.
The pandemic put a lot of people in a more experimental space, and they tried a lot of shit. And a lot of people picked up new skills. Including Linux 101.
And people saw authority in general start failing in a big ways. A lot of people started questioning shit. Including corporate hegemonies.
Windows 11 was officially released. That giant spike in late 2021 almost perfectly matched when Windows 11 was released. The Steam Deck was released in early 2022. So, from the graph, I would say the two main contributing factors are Windows 11 sucking to no one’s surprise and the Steam Deck exposing people to Linux gaming.
I would say steam deck, both in actual installs and in raising awareness, but that wasn’t until 2022
