Like diamat is just a method of scientific analysis. Any action compelled by that understanding is compelled by personal beliefs external to the diamat analysis? Is this right?

  • emizeko [they/them]@hexbear.net
    link
    fedilink
    English
    arrow-up
    18
    ·
    edit-2
    8 months ago

    [aimixin answers a similar question in r/genzedong]

    Saying Marxism isn’t about morality or excludes morality isn’t meant to say Marxists are immoral or amoral. It’s sort like, computer science doesn’t talk about morality, but that doesn’t make computer science immoral, or software developers amoral. They’re just separate topics.

    Marxism is meant to treat socioeconomic development as a material science. Biology and chemistry can inform doctors on how to make medicine and what medicine to prescribe people. But biology and chemistry themselves do not prescribe anything. Prescriptions require some sort of stated end goal, which is subjective.

    Stalin says something similar in Economic Problems of Socialism in the USSR, where he points out that political economy is the study of objective laws of social development which are outside of the control of the government, that the government’s policies are not equivalent to political economy as a science but are prescriptions informed by the science.

    This is what Marx had to say on the subject.

    Communists do not oppose egoism to selflessness or selflessness to egoism, nor do they express this contradiction theoretically either in its sentimental or in its highflown ideological form; they rather demonstrate its material source, with which it disappears of itself. The Communists do not preach morality at all.

    They do not put to people the moral demand: love one another, do not be egoists, etc.; on the contrary, they are very well aware that egoism, just as much selflessness, is in definite circumstances a necessary form of the self-assertion of individuals. Hence, the Communists by no means want to do away with the “private individual” for the sake of the “general”, selfless man. That is a statement of the imagination.

    —Marx, The German Ideology

    In some sense, you can argue there is a Marxist morality, but not from the perspective of subjective prescriptions, but merely an attempt to explain an objective origin to already existing morality. Such as, the origin of liberal viewpoints, which are heavily steeped in morality, clearly emanate from the capitalist mode of production. One could also argue a socialist society would produce a different kind of morality, but this would not be a prescription but would have to be demonstrated with evidence.

    I don’t think there is any reason to try and force morality or ethics into Marxism. Marxism does not need to be some all-encompassing worldview. It’s fine to get your beliefs and views from other sources. I am influenced by many writers, many of whom are not Marxist. I don’t get all my ideas from one source, I don’t feel a need to somehow make Marxism all-encompassing.

    • AssortedBiscuits [they/them]@hexbear.net
      link
      fedilink
      English
      arrow-up
      8
      ·
      8 months ago

      I don’t really agree with this. Marxism has a clear political goal, which is the emancipation of the working class. It isn’t depoliticized in the way biology or physics is in liberal society. If Marxism was truly depoliticized like this, there would be absolutely no reason why the ruling class would be so hostile to Marxist text. This would be like if the ruling class started banning books on string theory, comparative linguistics, or non-Newtonian fluids. The closest amount of hostility directed at scientific text is The Origin of Species and even then, that’s mostly confined to the US.

      I think the OP made an error in considering science as practiced in liberal society when liberalism is all about siloing and atomizing everything in existence until every single thing in existence, whether it’s people or fields of study, exists in its own self-contained bubble. Why shouldn’t our scientific pursuits be informed by our ethical and moral considerations? Science isn’t the pursuit of knowledge for its own sake. That pursuit has to be tempered by how it would benefit society as well as be informed by societal ethics and morality. No, we shouldn’t fund or even have experiments that determine how high cows can be dropped from and still survive.