i’m not male or insecure but i can definitely see how this compliment might come across as her telling him he’s not hot/she isn’t crazy about his looks or his personality, but that he’s “a good guy” and “marriage material”- which yes, those are also compliments, but in this context could be taken as backhanded. i feel like maybe she should have just said something else. i also feel like acting like men aren’t allowed to have feelings or insecurities or be upset is absurd.
Hexbear: men should shirk toxic masculinity and embrace their emotions!
Also Hexbear: this man, who I have one (1) data point about, is clearly upset here because his ability to control women through sex is being undercut. This is why dating men is the worst, just toughen up and take the compliment bro!!
I think you see this reflected in media too when women in a heterosexual relationship who have a crisis over not feeling desired or something along those lines, is displayed in a sympathetic way.
“Women like to feel chased and desired.”
Is a common through line in stories in which romance needs to be re-injected into the relationship. However here, a potentially miss worded compliment which states how they like their fulfilling stable relationship but also decenters the importance or existence of physical attraction towards the man can’t possibly be understood that way. Naturally stories are maybe more dramatic in their portrayal, but I think this this issue can be common in long-term relationships. Regardless of gender composition of the relationship or the gender of the person who may be feeling that way.
Yeah I don’t get how people can’t see the backhandedness. If you wanna say someone is a nice person, just say that, you don’t have to add that you’re not sexually attracted to them. It’s weird to add that you wouldn’t consider your partner as a potential hook-up, if you’re trying to complement them.
I’ve encountered a weird thing with some sexual partners where they seem to think it’s shallow to acknowledge that they find you physically attractive as well as emotionally attractive.
But like, it’s a sexual relationship, are bodies are part of it, it’d be weird if we were plutonic friends but enjoying each others bodies is part of our relationship here so I don’t see how it’s shallow for us to express our enjoyment of each others bodies to one another.
Yeah it’s odd. I think there’s also something going on here that a lot of people seem to be (willfully) obtuse about which is that it’s not looks, but sexual attraction that is being discussed.
I see some people arguing against the guys reaction because “attraction isn’t just looks”, and yeah everyone knows that, which is why it makes it so much more hurtful to say you wouldn’t consider your partner for a sexual relationship.
‘taking it slow’ is coded for more serious relationships culturally, even if that’s kind of silly and sex-negative. the ‘hookup’ is supposed to be ephemeral and shallow
i think this is very enmeshed in patriarchal norms with people trying to recreate a more old fashioned courtship for a potential spouse while consciously/subconsciously devaluing and shaming casual sex. don’t get me wrong i also see how it sounds like they’re saying the guy is not attractive, but he and other men gotta understand we still live under patriarchy and it makes people think differently (i mean wanting your partner to think you’re adonis is weird patriarchy too, deserve love even if they don’t roil loins in the stereotypical way)
You’re the second person quoting something that’s I don’t see present in the text and I feel like I’m missing something here.
the ‘hookup’ is supposed to be ephemeral and shallow.
I understand the concept of thinking a hook-up is shallow and, as I’ve said elsewhere, if that was what was said, then that would have been a compliment. What was said though wasn’t “I could never just have X with you, I’d need to have y!” <- that would have been a compliment.
think this is very enmeshed in patriarchal norms with people trying to recreate a more old fashioned courtship.
I gotta be honest, it strikes me as some toxic masculinity thing where we expect a lot of things of men wrt feelings and social interactions. then punish them when they dont fulfill it. Women are also capable of saying insensitive stuff and it seems to me like we’re pretending the interpretation of it being rude isn’t valid, because it’s a guy who has it and when men are sad they are wrong.
There’s plenty of people just in this thread chiming in with how they would interpret it the same way, so it’s not like it’s some far fetched thing.
i mean wanting your partner to think you’re adonis is weird patriarchy too.
But that’s also not what is being expressed as a wish. The guy is sad because his partner said she isn’t sexually attracted to him. It is very normal to want your partner to be attracted to you. Sexual attraction isn’t purely based on aesthetics, and I know a few people who would find constanza hot.
it took me long enough to type that up that i missed most of the discussion, lol sorry for addressing things other people brought up
however you’re being a bit too rigid in your interpretation of the text. we don’t have a quote, just an explanation from one party of what they said. we’re all just extrapolating on delivery/timing/vocabulary that was used so we can’t actually litigate this particular situation with accuracy. but it’s a vehicle to talk about relationships and patriarchy and we love to do that don’t we folks
it took me long enough to type that up that i missed most of the discussion, lol sorry for addressing things other people brought up.
No worries!
however you’re being a bit too rigid in your interpretation of the text. we don’t have a quote, just an explanation from one party of what they said.
I agree, but I do this on purpose because we only have the text and people keep adding things that aren’t in the text, which is why we end up misunderstanding each other.
My rigidity also comes from the feeling that my interpretation is treated as though it isn’t valid, which is very frustrating, especially when I do not disagree on the validity of the positive interpretation, just that it is not the only one. To me it is the people who insist on the positive interpretation that are being rigid, since I do not see them admitting the other way is possible, but instead just some man being silly.
but it’s a vehicle to talk about relationships and patriarchy and we love to do that don’t we folks.
Sure, but I think it’s best to have those discussions in a vehicle we all agree on, not one we all decide to add to
Male, not insecure much to my knowledge; I think the split here is “I wouldn’t just fuck you”. As far as I understand the world attraction for women to men is much less based on “beauty standards” and more other factors.
Everytime I said to the women in my life “That guy’s hot, isn’t he?” on the basis of what I think would be an attractive man I get back “God, no”. Think like, I don’t know, Ryan Gosling or Alan Ritcherson or and then Jack Black comes up and their heart beats ouf of their chest, their eyes get comically large and they go “AWOOOOOOOOOOOOGA”. I’ve since learned I have no idea what hetero women find hot and that people like Ryan Gosling or Alan Ritcherson are, going by looks, more like a male fantasy of how and what to look like.
So coming from the womens POV that sounds like a compliment, but to the guy it sounds like “I don’t think you’re physically that hot.”, because he’s Jack Black and not Ryan Gosling if that makes sense. I think the ire here is in large part that women are often complimented on their looks, rarely on their skills and it’s vice versa for men, which is why he probably wants to hear he’s Ryan Gosling and not Jack Black.
All very much generalized and such, but that’s what I figured. Given her version of the story I think storming out is a bit much, though.
i mean no disrespect when i say this, it’s absurd to believe women don’t actually think ryan gosling and dudes like that are hot. that is literally 90% of their appeal and why they’re rich and famous- women pay to see them in movies because they’re hot. i know they’ll say that if you ask them, but my brother, come on. they certainly probably find jack black more entertaining and “huggable” but if we’re being honest with ourselves, and you ask 10 women which of these two men they find more attractive, do you honestly, HONESTLY think most of them would pick jack black?
also, “i find you attractive like jack black, not like ryan gosling” isn’t a nice compliment.
i think people really just have trouble admitting that women can be insensitive and shitty just like men can, and that men can have insecurities and feelings and it isn’t invalid. there are so many people in here acting like “you just haven’t read enough feminist theory” to justify taking the girlfriend’s side in this post, but that’s just mental gymnastics. i love shitting on men all day, i will shit on men like nobody’s business, but i can not read this post and not think her boyfriend was right to be upset
It feels odd to presume every women that I talk about such topics with because we have close, personal friendships would lie to me about it. It’s not like I haven’t heard them saying things about Jack Black not suitable to be repeated in polite company after some drinks. And hell, on the scale of Ryan Gosling to Jack Black I definitely trend towards Gosling, not jack.
it’s not that they’re lying, it’s that wE LiVe iN a SoCiETy that makes women feel bad for lusting after hot men, so they would reflexively say that jack black is more attractive to them when put in that situation.
Most women I know are very upfront about being attracted to people purely because of their bodies.
Most men I know are very upfront about there being more qualities than just aesthetics that are determining for wether or not they’re attracted to someone.
Most everybody likes to look at pretty people. Most everybody have more criteria than “pretty” for when they determine wether or not to hook up with someone, it’s not something that’s unique to any gender.
I am both male and insecure about my body, but if my partner said this to me I would take it to mean “I wouldn’t just fuck you once, I’d spend my life with you and fuck you many times”
i’m not male or insecure but i can definitely see how this compliment might come across as her telling him he’s not hot/she isn’t crazy about his looks or his personality, but that he’s “a good guy” and “marriage material”- which yes, those are also compliments, but in this context could be taken as backhanded. i feel like maybe she should have just said something else. i also feel like acting like men aren’t allowed to have feelings or insecurities or be upset is absurd.
Lots of people in here just acting like Men aren’t ever insecure about their bodies.
Hexbear: men should shirk toxic masculinity and embrace their emotions!
Also Hexbear: this man, who I have one (1) data point about, is clearly upset here because his ability to control women through sex is being undercut. This is why dating men is the worst, just toughen up and take the compliment bro!!
I think you see this reflected in media too when women in a heterosexual relationship who have a crisis over not feeling desired or something along those lines, is displayed in a sympathetic way.
“Women like to feel chased and desired.” Is a common through line in stories in which romance needs to be re-injected into the relationship. However here, a potentially miss worded compliment which states how they like their fulfilling stable relationship but also decenters the importance or existence of physical attraction towards the man can’t possibly be understood that way. Naturally stories are maybe more dramatic in their portrayal, but I think this this issue can be common in long-term relationships. Regardless of gender composition of the relationship or the gender of the person who may be feeling that way.
Hi
Or that men are unaffected by negging. Like if you break it down, this could easily be interpreted as negging, even if that was not the intention.
Yeah I don’t get how people can’t see the backhandedness. If you wanna say someone is a nice person, just say that, you don’t have to add that you’re not sexually attracted to them. It’s weird to add that you wouldn’t consider your partner as a potential hook-up, if you’re trying to complement them.
I’ve encountered a weird thing with some sexual partners where they seem to think it’s shallow to acknowledge that they find you physically attractive as well as emotionally attractive.
But like, it’s a sexual relationship, are bodies are part of it, it’d be weird if we were plutonic friends but enjoying each others bodies is part of our relationship here so I don’t see how it’s shallow for us to express our enjoyment of each others bodies to one another.
Yeah it’s odd. I think there’s also something going on here that a lot of people seem to be (willfully) obtuse about which is that it’s not looks, but sexual attraction that is being discussed.
I see some people arguing against the guys reaction because “attraction isn’t just looks”, and yeah everyone knows that, which is why it makes it so much more hurtful to say you wouldn’t consider your partner for a sexual relationship.
‘taking it slow’ is coded for more serious relationships culturally, even if that’s kind of silly and sex-negative. the ‘hookup’ is supposed to be ephemeral and shallow
i think this is very enmeshed in patriarchal norms with people trying to recreate a more old fashioned courtship for a potential spouse while consciously/subconsciously devaluing and shaming casual sex. don’t get me wrong i also see how it sounds like they’re saying the guy is not attractive, but he and other men gotta understand we still live under patriarchy and it makes people think differently (i mean wanting your partner to think you’re adonis is weird patriarchy too,
deserve love even if they don’t roil loins in the stereotypical way)
Thank you for your response.
You’re the second person quoting something that’s I don’t see present in the text and I feel like I’m missing something here.
I understand the concept of thinking a hook-up is shallow and, as I’ve said elsewhere, if that was what was said, then that would have been a compliment. What was said though wasn’t “I could never just have X with you, I’d need to have y!” <- that would have been a compliment.
I gotta be honest, it strikes me as some toxic masculinity thing where we expect a lot of things of men wrt feelings and social interactions. then punish them when they dont fulfill it. Women are also capable of saying insensitive stuff and it seems to me like we’re pretending the interpretation of it being rude isn’t valid, because it’s a guy who has it and when men are sad they are wrong.
There’s plenty of people just in this thread chiming in with how they would interpret it the same way, so it’s not like it’s some far fetched thing.
But that’s also not what is being expressed as a wish. The guy is sad because his partner said she isn’t sexually attracted to him. It is very normal to want your partner to be attracted to you. Sexual attraction isn’t purely based on aesthetics, and I know a few people who would find constanza hot.
it took me long enough to type that up that i missed most of the discussion, lol sorry for addressing things other people brought up
however you’re being a bit too rigid in your interpretation of the text. we don’t have a quote, just an explanation from one party of what they said. we’re all just extrapolating on delivery/timing/vocabulary that was used so we can’t actually litigate this particular situation with accuracy. but it’s a vehicle to talk about relationships and patriarchy and we love to do that don’t we folks
No worries!
I agree, but I do this on purpose because we only have the text and people keep adding things that aren’t in the text, which is why we end up misunderstanding each other.
My rigidity also comes from the feeling that my interpretation is treated as though it isn’t valid, which is very frustrating, especially when I do not disagree on the validity of the positive interpretation, just that it is not the only one. To me it is the people who insist on the positive interpretation that are being rigid, since I do not see them admitting the other way is possible, but instead just some man being silly.
Sure, but I think it’s best to have those discussions in a vehicle we all agree on, not one we all decide to add to
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Male, not insecure much to my knowledge; I think the split here is “I wouldn’t just fuck you”. As far as I understand the world attraction for women to men is much less based on “beauty standards” and more other factors.
Everytime I said to the women in my life “That guy’s hot, isn’t he?” on the basis of what I think would be an attractive man I get back “God, no”. Think like, I don’t know, Ryan Gosling or Alan Ritcherson or and then Jack Black comes up and their heart beats ouf of their chest, their eyes get comically large and they go “AWOOOOOOOOOOOOGA”. I’ve since learned I have no idea what hetero women find hot and that people like Ryan Gosling or Alan Ritcherson are, going by looks, more like a male fantasy of how and what to look like.
So coming from the womens POV that sounds like a compliment, but to the guy it sounds like “I don’t think you’re physically that hot.”, because he’s Jack Black and not Ryan Gosling if that makes sense. I think the ire here is in large part that women are often complimented on their looks, rarely on their skills and it’s vice versa for men, which is why he probably wants to hear he’s Ryan Gosling and not Jack Black.
All very much generalized and such, but that’s what I figured. Given her version of the story I think storming out is a bit much, though.
i mean no disrespect when i say this, it’s absurd to believe women don’t actually think ryan gosling and dudes like that are hot. that is literally 90% of their appeal and why they’re rich and famous- women pay to see them in movies because they’re hot. i know they’ll say that if you ask them, but my brother, come on. they certainly probably find jack black more entertaining and “huggable” but if we’re being honest with ourselves, and you ask 10 women which of these two men they find more attractive, do you honestly, HONESTLY think most of them would pick jack black?
also, “i find you attractive like jack black, not like ryan gosling” isn’t a nice compliment.
i think people really just have trouble admitting that women can be insensitive and shitty just like men can, and that men can have insecurities and feelings and it isn’t invalid. there are so many people in here acting like “you just haven’t read enough feminist theory” to justify taking the girlfriend’s side in this post, but that’s just mental gymnastics. i love shitting on men all day, i will shit on men like nobody’s business, but i can not read this post and not think her boyfriend was right to be upset
It feels odd to presume every women that I talk about such topics with because we have close, personal friendships would lie to me about it. It’s not like I haven’t heard them saying things about Jack Black not suitable to be repeated in polite company after some drinks. And hell, on the scale of Ryan Gosling to Jack Black I definitely trend towards Gosling, not jack.
it’s not that they’re lying, it’s that wE LiVe iN a SoCiETy that makes women feel bad for lusting after hot men, so they would reflexively say that jack black is more attractive to them when put in that situation.
Most women I know are very upfront about being attracted to people purely because of their bodies.
Most men I know are very upfront about there being more qualities than just aesthetics that are determining for wether or not they’re attracted to someone.
Most everybody likes to look at pretty people. Most everybody have more criteria than “pretty” for when they determine wether or not to hook up with someone, it’s not something that’s unique to any gender.
I am both male and insecure about my body, but if my partner said this to me I would take it to mean “I wouldn’t just fuck you once, I’d spend my life with you and fuck you many times”
Finally some common sense.