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Perhaps we should consider that both things can be true: she intended the compliment of “I am sexually AND emotionally to you to such a great degree that I want nothing less than marriage”; and his reaction was valid because he perceived the meaning as “I’m settling for you”.
We don’t know how this miscommunication happened. She could have phrased it poorly or said it in a weird tone. He could have misheard. He could have a ton of pre-existing conditioning and pressures that led him to place her comment in a social context that she doesn’t share.
Neither of them have to be in the wrong here. Both of them should do the work and try to understand each other better.
but also
completely right
i’m not male or insecure but i can definitely see how this compliment might come across as her telling him he’s not hot/she isn’t crazy about his looks or his personality, but that he’s “a good guy” and “marriage material”- which yes, those are also compliments, but in this context could be taken as backhanded. i feel like maybe she should have just said something else. i also feel like acting like men aren’t allowed to have feelings or insecurities or be upset is absurd.
Lots of people in here just acting like Men aren’t ever insecure about their bodies.
Hexbear: men should shirk toxic masculinity and embrace their emotions!
Also Hexbear: this man, who I have one (1) data point about, is clearly upset here because his ability to control women through sex is being undercut. This is why dating men is the worst, just toughen up and take the compliment bro!!
I think you see this reflected in media too when women in a heterosexual relationship who have a crisis over not feeling desired or something along those lines, is displayed in a sympathetic way.
“Women like to feel chased and desired.” Is a common through line in stories in which romance needs to be re-injected into the relationship. However here, a potentially miss worded compliment which states how they like their fulfilling stable relationship but also decenters the importance or existence of physical attraction towards the man can’t possibly be understood that way. Naturally stories are maybe more dramatic in their portrayal, but I think this this issue can be common in long-term relationships. Regardless of gender composition of the relationship or the gender of the person who may be feeling that way.
Hi
Or that men are unaffected by negging. Like if you break it down, this could easily be interpreted as negging, even if that was not the intention.
Yeah I don’t get how people can’t see the backhandedness. If you wanna say someone is a nice person, just say that, you don’t have to add that you’re not sexually attracted to them. It’s weird to add that you wouldn’t consider your partner as a potential hook-up, if you’re trying to complement them.
I’ve encountered a weird thing with some sexual partners where they seem to think it’s shallow to acknowledge that they find you physically attractive as well as emotionally attractive.
But like, it’s a sexual relationship, are bodies are part of it, it’d be weird if we were plutonic friends but enjoying each others bodies is part of our relationship here so I don’t see how it’s shallow for us to express our enjoyment of each others bodies to one another.
Yeah it’s odd. I think there’s also something going on here that a lot of people seem to be (willfully) obtuse about which is that it’s not looks, but sexual attraction that is being discussed.
I see some people arguing against the guys reaction because “attraction isn’t just looks”, and yeah everyone knows that, which is why it makes it so much more hurtful to say you wouldn’t consider your partner for a sexual relationship.
‘taking it slow’ is coded for more serious relationships culturally, even if that’s kind of silly and sex-negative. the ‘hookup’ is supposed to be ephemeral and shallow
i think this is very enmeshed in patriarchal norms with people trying to recreate a more old fashioned courtship for a potential spouse while consciously/subconsciously devaluing and shaming casual sex. don’t get me wrong i also see how it sounds like they’re saying the guy is not attractive, but he and other men gotta understand we still live under patriarchy and it makes people think differently (i mean wanting your partner to think you’re adonis is weird patriarchy too,
deserve love even if they don’t roil loins in the stereotypical way)Thank you for your response.
“taking it slow”
You’re the second person quoting something that’s I don’t see present in the text and I feel like I’m missing something here.
the ‘hookup’ is supposed to be ephemeral and shallow.
I understand the concept of thinking a hook-up is shallow and, as I’ve said elsewhere, if that was what was said, then that would have been a compliment. What was said though wasn’t “I could never just have X with you, I’d need to have y!” <- that would have been a compliment.
think this is very enmeshed in patriarchal norms with people trying to recreate a more old fashioned courtship.
I gotta be honest, it strikes me as some toxic masculinity thing where we expect a lot of things of men wrt feelings and social interactions. then punish them when they dont fulfill it. Women are also capable of saying insensitive stuff and it seems to me like we’re pretending the interpretation of it being rude isn’t valid, because it’s a guy who has it and when men are sad they are wrong.
There’s plenty of people just in this thread chiming in with how they would interpret it the same way, so it’s not like it’s some far fetched thing.i mean wanting your partner to think you’re adonis is weird patriarchy too.
But that’s also not what is being expressed as a wish. The guy is sad because his partner said she isn’t sexually attracted to him. It is very normal to want your partner to be attracted to you. Sexual attraction isn’t purely based on aesthetics, and I know a few people who would find constanza hot.
it took me long enough to type that up that i missed most of the discussion, lol sorry for addressing things other people brought up
however you’re being a bit too rigid in your interpretation of the text. we don’t have a quote, just an explanation from one party of what they said. we’re all just extrapolating on delivery/timing/vocabulary that was used so we can’t actually litigate this particular situation with accuracy. but it’s a vehicle to talk about relationships and patriarchy and we love to do that don’t we folks
it took me long enough to type that up that i missed most of the discussion, lol sorry for addressing things other people brought up.
No worries!
however you’re being a bit too rigid in your interpretation of the text. we don’t have a quote, just an explanation from one party of what they said.
I agree, but I do this on purpose because we only have the text and people keep adding things that aren’t in the text, which is why we end up misunderstanding each other.
My rigidity also comes from the feeling that my interpretation is treated as though it isn’t valid, which is very frustrating, especially when I do not disagree on the validity of the positive interpretation, just that it is not the only one. To me it is the people who insist on the positive interpretation that are being rigid, since I do not see them admitting the other way is possible, but instead just some man being silly.but it’s a vehicle to talk about relationships and patriarchy and we love to do that don’t we folks.
Sure, but I think it’s best to have those discussions in a vehicle we all agree on, not one we all decide to add to
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Male, not insecure much to my knowledge; I think the split here is “I wouldn’t just fuck you”. As far as I understand the world attraction for women to men is much less based on “beauty standards” and more other factors.
Everytime I said to the women in my life “That guy’s hot, isn’t he?” on the basis of what I think would be an attractive man I get back “God, no”. Think like, I don’t know, Ryan Gosling or Alan Ritcherson or and then Jack Black comes up and their heart beats ouf of their chest, their eyes get comically large and they go “AWOOOOOOOOOOOOGA”. I’ve since learned I have no idea what hetero women find hot and that people like Ryan Gosling or Alan Ritcherson are, going by looks, more like a male fantasy of how and what to look like.
So coming from the womens POV that sounds like a compliment, but to the guy it sounds like “I don’t think you’re physically that hot.”, because he’s Jack Black and not Ryan Gosling if that makes sense. I think the ire here is in large part that women are often complimented on their looks, rarely on their skills and it’s vice versa for men, which is why he probably wants to hear he’s Ryan Gosling and not Jack Black.
All very much generalized and such, but that’s what I figured. Given her version of the story I think storming out is a bit much, though.
i mean no disrespect when i say this, it’s absurd to believe women don’t actually think ryan gosling and dudes like that are hot. that is literally 90% of their appeal and why they’re rich and famous- women pay to see them in movies because they’re hot. i know they’ll say that if you ask them, but my brother, come on. they certainly probably find jack black more entertaining and “huggable” but if we’re being honest with ourselves, and you ask 10 women which of these two men they find more attractive, do you honestly, HONESTLY think most of them would pick jack black?
also, “i find you attractive like jack black, not like ryan gosling” isn’t a nice compliment.
i think people really just have trouble admitting that women can be insensitive and shitty just like men can, and that men can have insecurities and feelings and it isn’t invalid. there are so many people in here acting like “you just haven’t read enough feminist theory” to justify taking the girlfriend’s side in this post, but that’s just mental gymnastics. i love shitting on men all day, i will shit on men like nobody’s business, but i can not read this post and not think her boyfriend was right to be upset
It feels odd to presume every women that I talk about such topics with because we have close, personal friendships would lie to me about it. It’s not like I haven’t heard them saying things about Jack Black not suitable to be repeated in polite company after some drinks. And hell, on the scale of Ryan Gosling to Jack Black I definitely trend towards Gosling, not jack.
it’s not that they’re lying, it’s that wE LiVe iN a SoCiETy that makes women feel bad for lusting after hot men, so they would reflexively say that jack black is more attractive to them when put in that situation.
Most women I know are very upfront about being attracted to people purely because of their bodies.
Most men I know are very upfront about there being more qualities than just aesthetics that are determining for wether or not they’re attracted to someone.Most everybody likes to look at pretty people. Most everybody have more criteria than “pretty” for when they determine wether or not to hook up with someone, it’s not something that’s unique to any gender.
I am both male and insecure about my body, but if my partner said this to me I would take it to mean “I wouldn’t just fuck you once, I’d spend my life with you and fuck you many times”
Finally some common sense.
please, no reddit relationship advice posting. my brain is already severely permanently damaged
But it lifts people self steem
You have a brain injury? Your brain is injured? Ow.
Literal TBI from too much banging their head against an old CRT monitor
I swear, reading reddit life adivice on social interactions, sex, dating from an early age dealt immeasurable harm on my brain.
This is the only comment in this thread I 100% agree with
But there’s already like 50 comments, this thread is gonna be so much fun!
You’d have to be incredibly obtuse to see such a thing as a compliment. It sounds backhanded and almost like she’s negging him. Like you’d have to consider men as emotionless robots with no deeper feelings or thought to see this as compliment. Oh wait, that’s how society sees men! And you’d have to know nothing about male gender roles and expectations to not see how this could be insulting. Imagine wanting to spend the rest of life with someone (in this case a man), and knowing this little about their gender identity. And I say this as someone that’s dated men. I don’t know, maybe this is all incredibly obvious to me as a man or something, because I cannot see how that would be a compliment.
The way it could be interpreted as a comliment is that fwb or hookup is too shallow and she wouldn’t be able to keep it at that level. But it is very badly worded if so. Just say “You’re the kind of man I would like to marry” instead, adding in the fwb and hookup stuff before adds nothing to the compliment.
Also if that’s what you’re trying to say then saying “I wouldn’t hook up with you. I would marry you” is a really weird way of saying it, because you’re expressing an inability to settle, so you’d want to use the word “couldn’t” probably
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There’s a little undercurrent here of “Toughen up, men” you obviously misinterpreted this and you’re a little baby for being upset. Sorry, but that’s the same toxic masculinity bullshit that everyone decries in the abstract.
I mean it’s pretty much the cycle whenever men have legitimate issues about something in the cisgender heterosexual dynamic. (So glad I’m not a part of that). From my observations, it starts like this:
1- Someone asks men why they don’t do X thing or why they think in a Y way. (In this case thinking that such a compliment is backhanded and insulting)
2- Men answer why. (Explaining why they view it this way)
3- Some women who don’t like the answers, proceed to shame and try convincing the men into believing they’re the ones wrong, or acknowledge that it’s a legitimate issue but deflect the blame by saying “not all people do this”.
4- Guys see no reason to do or think any different than before and their beliefs are often reinforced. (Gender polarisation increases between men and women).
5- Go back to number 1 and start over.
It’s literally the same cycle over and over.
Yeah as a (mostly) het man this is a toxic dynamic I’ve encountered. I had one partner straight up say to me (paraphrasing a bit) “well I experience emotions more intensely than you so you have more a responsibility to be sensitive to me than I to you”.
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I think that’s a really bad faith interpretation of his comment
I this his comment is a bad faith interpretation of why this sort of thing makes women angry.
Some women who don’t like the answers, proceed to shame and try convincing the men into believing they’re the ones wrong, or acknowledge that it’s a legitimate issue but deflect the blame by saying “not all people do this”. (We are here now)
Fuck yeah, it’s so awesome that I’m “some women” now.
this is an exceptionally bad faith interpretation of their comment and you know it
<- this is you right now
Yeah, it’s easy to feel like the answer is to toughen up when that’s historically been the answer to everything. I fully believe that deconstructing patriarchal masculinity happens through healing of the emotional wounds that patriarchy inflicts on us through understanding and kindness. I also believe that everyone deserves to have their feelings validated. I don’t know if this space is the ideal place for all of that to happen, but if people are trying to use it that way I’m happy to participate.
I want to clarify that I’m not like super offended by the comment itself. Even though it can be interpreted as rude, it clearly wasn’t intended to be an insult, and I’m abso-fucking-lutely not interested in analyzing a relationship from a handful of sentences. It’s moreso the idea that the guy is wrong for being upset by it.
If they’ve been together almost 3 years and this is his response to something as innocuous as “I take this relationship seriously” she dodged a bullet.
No wait, the joke is that he understood her phrase as “I’m not really sexually attracted to you, but you feel good enough to settledown”
When she actually meant: “I don’t obly want to fuck you but also grow old with you, etc”
Oh I know. I also know guys who misinterpret a relationship maturing as it dying and I’m just saying that if she’s seeing it mature and he just thinks it’s all about jumping bones, then there’s some really serious lack of communication there.
Ah good point
A lot of hetero men do not value the last part above the first part. The “chad” who bangs “chicks” every night on his bedframe less bed, is still seen as aspirational, unlike the “beta” house-husband manwife who cooks for his wife, while she shacks up with her personal trainer or something.
Yeah, it’s an overreaction to be sure, but I’m not sure I’d like hearing, “I wouldn’t give you a second glance if I saw you in the wild” either. Could be they were already going through some stuff and that was the final straw.
I don’t understand how that’s what what she said means
Locking this thread.
I don’t like heterosexuality.
Men are silly and stupid for never opening up or having feelings or being hurt or sad.
Look at this dude being sad because his partner said something hurtful. Dude should just toughen up! She obviously didn’t mean it that way, he’s just a big baby.
lamest struggle session yet
124 comments / 58 upvotes
Lmao
Het moment
How is this not a huge compliment? Dating men is literally the worst cause they are like this.
It’s very easy to read as “I don’t find you super attractive but you seem like someone I could settle for once I’m done playing the field”
Her intent seems to be more “I don’t think I could have hooked up with you and moved on because of how special you are to me” but she phrased it in an ambiguous way
The first interpretation is extremely foreign to me. Do people just marry someone who they don’t like that much because they wanna settle down?
Yes all the time.
Yes thats most of the hetero marriages/long-term relationships. They simply grab the next person who “is there”. There is like a lot of silent expectations in hetero social circles to have an active relationship. I notice this everytime people do not know that I am gay yet hahaha.
I would say most marriages throughout history are basically exactly that. I may be won’t, but honestly I don’t think I’m wrong. It has a lot more to do with availability than compatibility (which can be developed, tbf)
(which can be developed, tbf)
I think this is a sticking point for me. My wife and I have worked hard and paid a lot of attention to make sure we’re both growing and that we’re growing closer instead of apart. I understand statistically that if I could somehow review billions of people that I could find someone more immediately compatible with me, so availability was a major factor for us. But we consistently have been told people are jealous of our relationship and we were barrels of red flags when we first got together. By the time we married we were excellent communicators who adored each other.
I don’t want to shame people who haven’t had this experience because I’ve clearly missed out on a lot and I’m not so naive as to think everyone could just git gud at relationships. The whole discussion just seems foreign to me as a result.
“I would not consider you a sexual partner, were it not for our pre-existing social relationship” isn’t really something I’d consider a compliment.
That is how I understand what is being said, and my understanding comes largely from the fact that FWB is also denied as a possibility, since that is also a long-term social relationship, but one based primarily on raw sexual attraction rather than social dynamics.
I’ve seen other say it also comes off as saying you’re “settling” for the same reasons.I see people saying variations of “what they mean is that they couldn’t just be FWB”. That’s not what is being said though, and that meaning is lost in the way it is phrased. That would have been a compliment though.
I see people saying variations of “what they mean is that they couldn’t just be FWB”. That’s not what is being said though
According to the post she did say she wouldn’t be just FWB or Hookups with but marry". Which does arrive you at “You’re hot and I want to boink you, but I couldn’t just boink you because then I’d be lovesick on account of how great you are” which is a sick ass, major compliment, but I really do understand how the 1 - 2 levels of abstraction required to get there might easily be missed in the heat of the moment and smart a bit and how starting your bedroom compliment with “I wouldn’t hook up with you” could use some polish
I feel like I’m missing something because in the body she says “he wasn’t someone I would hook up with or be fwb with, but marry” which to me is very different than “some I wouldn’t just …”
she obviously likes him cause she’s distraught that they’re having relationship issues. she was drunk when she made the comment. you seriously wouldn’t find it endearing to have your drunk partner give you a silly and awkwardly phrased compliment? I think that sounds awesome.
But even if I didn’t, I would ask about it the next day inatead of abruptly leaving. Surely this could have been cleared up with a short conversation.
I gotta be honest I find your response here annoying as it seems to be arguing against a lot of stuff I haven’t said, whilst not engaging with what I said. It also doesn’t answer my question.
she obviously likes him cause she’s distraught that they’re having relationship issues. she was drunk when she made the comment.
I do not see what that has to do with what I wrote. I did not write anything about wether or not she liked him, I am writing about how I interpret what has been said and in this comment you’re responding to I am asking about the specific language used. The premise for the post is that she intended to compliment him and he didn’t take it as a compliment and now she’s distraught. It’s a given that she likes him and that she didn’t intend this, and I have not argued against either. I don’t get why you seem to think that I am.
you seriously wouldn’t find it endearing to have your drunk partner give you a silly and awkwardly phrased compliment?
No I actually hate getting compliments from my partner 🙄
This is again not really related to what I’m writing. The discussion isn’t wether or not people enjoy compliments, but wether or not what was said is actually a compliment.But even if I didn’t, I would ask about it the next day inatead of abruptly leaving. Surely this could have been cleared up with a short conversation.
Yeah, I agree? Again I’m also not writing about wether or not he was justified in reacting like he did, just how I also do not see it as a compliment.
Especially since they were both drunk at the time. That could very easily increase the breakdown in communication. Whether it be the man misinterpreting or the woman misremembering exactly how it was said. It makes me think of how I sometimes get a bit rambly when I’m drunk and the point can kinda get lost.
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As an “”““AMAB,””“” this left me scratching my head confused as fuck, and I still don’t understand how someone could be so upset by it. I’d love to hear nothing more than this from my partner.
Point for my gender being validated I guess but also a point for me hating cisheteronormative bullshit.
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So what was she supposed to say to her bf of 2.5 years, “hey if I saw you on an app i’d totally have a meaningless one night stand with you and then never talk to you again”?
It seems to me that this man is just highly insecure that his gf may have had previous partners because he views her as his property basically.
I don’t see how someone telling their partner “if I saw you on the street I wouldn’t find you immediately attractive” is something that wouldn’t bother you. Maybe the dude is overreacting, especially since she seems conciliatory and apologetic, but if I’m suffering from a period of body dysmorphia and my S.O. tells me that it would hurt a lot. People like to feel desired and this compliment, intentional or not, could easily be taken as saying you’re not.
She said she wants to marry him. how is that not a huge compliment? it also definitely implies sexual attraction. if my partner said that to me I’d be
for weeks.If you’re in a good headspace I think your reaction is 100% percent typical and the right way to interpret it. The kicker is sometimes you just feel like shit about your body and that changes the way you understand it. I hope this guy gets over it because it clearly wasn’t meant that way, but he’ll have to work through his emotions to do it. It really does impede the way your mind works
She could just not say it, she doesn’t have to say anything about it. It’s not like they were having a discussion or she was asked directly about it or something.
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My girlfriend occasionally notes she’d have noticed me at a party or in the streets if I wore that outfit before we were together as a compliment, which is nice, I assume it’s more in that realm and not “I don’t care about you at all but you’re hot”
I think every one earth wants to be considered hot, smart, and funny. If your partner says something that comes off as suggesting you are not one of those things, it can be hurtful.
It’s a backhanded and insulting “compliment”. It can easily be seen as if she’s saying that she’s settling down and he’s not her first choice, or that she doesn’t see him as physically attractive but wants to have a long term relationship with him because of the “security” he offers. Pretty much almost every man that’s attracted to women in some way will see this as a backhanded compliment or negging. No one wants it to be implied or told that they’re not sexy or fun.
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Yeah other people are pointing out ways that it could sound backhanded, but unless she said it in a pissed off voice it seems innocent and much more thoughtful than the more usual compliments you might think of.
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“I find you sexually attractive exclusively due to the emotional and romantic connection, not because of your physical attractiveness” is not a compliment of someone’s physical attractiveness. Wanting to be perceived as physically attractive is not controlling and patriarchal.
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