Most people just want a good life. If we stopped seeing each other as the enemies the world could be better.
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Idk one side wants to enslave, murder, and rape. The other does not.
Let’s just be friends as they take away my rights and everyone I love rights away, we shouldn’t be enemies as they hunt down and murder someone for “existing”
Maybe we shouldn’t be friends with the enemy and fight against the regime?
This is one of the was Nazis came into power, by manipulating the mass thinking “oh we should all be friends” and now look what happened.
-a trans non-binary disabled person
There aren’t only two sides to every issue. Thinking like that is limiting.
Regardless of how many sides there are, it is an undeniable fact that plenty of people (in the USA in particular, apparently, a majority of the voters) choose to be in (a) side(s) that want(s) to enslave, murder, and rape.
And many others choose to be in (a) side(s) that enable(s) the previous one(s).
No civilised society should accept any of those sides, or those that choose them.
It seems that way because of the two party system brought upon by how votes are counted and winners chosen (winner takes all). If you watch jubilee, you’ll see just how fragmented both parties are (good example of pro and anti trump republicans). Forcing people to choose between one or the other has led to the USA becoming very black and white.
Idk one side wants to enslave, murder, and rape. The other does not.
Seeing people hold this kind of views is fucking depressing.
this view
The truth?
Lol what is the truth LMAO 🤣
That the US right defends slavery, murder, and rape?
Oh my god, you honestly believe that.
I feel so sorry for your fellow men
They literally do- idk what to tell you besides:
blocked
No one is more confused about reality than the ones claiming to know “the truth” Some even name their social media platforms like that.
solidarity means solidarity. other working class people are not your enemy (re: 1984). the all or nothing mindset accomplishes nothing besides closing your mind off to the plights and perspectives of others.
-also trans and disabled
Idk one side wants to enslave, murder, and rape. The other does not.
Advocating for OP, that’s the learnt way they see how they can become comfortable.
As an autistic person, wholly agreed. It is like people are actively trying to isolate and dehumanize us autistic folks.
Amen.
What the people who want to control us don’t want us to realize is that you have a lot more in common with the Chinese/Russian/Ukrainian/Mexican/Indian working class… Factory worker/programmer/hard-working house wife… Then you do with your own political leaders and billionaires. People with servants who don’t ever worry about bills. (Biden, Trump, Harris, Vance, Elon, Gates, Bezos, etc)… Don’t look at the foreigners as different and the enemy… Look at the Rich and the Politicians (who want us to blame the foreigners)
No war but class war.
It’s by design.
Divide and conquerCombine and conquer has been the playbook since they (anti-labor think tanks like the Progressive Policy Institute and others that seek to keep labor infighting) started studying group psychology.
Cant tell if you are pro FPTP or against FPTP 🤔
Very against it.
Yea you mentioned divide and conquer then put images of the parliament with and without FPTP. Its easily misinterpreted to say that proportional representation is somehow “divide and conquer”.
That’s interesting and you make a great point.
From my perspective, I showed how a simple change to US and UK election laws can topple the two party system overnight.
Literally, if there are only two private parties run by private organizations of rich people, they merely have to divide us and conquer us. We are being puppeteered by a bunch of corporations that use identity politics to keep the poor fighting amongst themselves and people SLURP THAT SHIT UP BECAUSE THE TWO PARTY SYSTEM CODIFIES IT INTO EVERY DECISION.
Feudalism with a few more steps.
Interesting point, though and I can see what you mean.
Truly, if my comment were to make sense, I’d have to say they have “combined” and conquered.
I did not read it that way.
I don’t see MAGA people as the enemy because they want to pay less in taxes. I see them as the enemy because they don’t think my kids should exist in society and are actively passing legislation to make it so.
Delete this shit take.
It may be more directed at them than you.
Something will be directed at them if they don’t knock this shit off.
Username checks out
The major difference is money. We should be banding together against the rich, but instead we distract ourselves with what we look like, what we sound like, where we come from, what team (sports, town, city, state, country, …) we support, which sex we have, and a bunch of other things that divide us.
Aliens are here to unite us (/s).
I’m not sure that’s true. One side has empathy. The other does not. I don’t want to be friends with someone who doesn’t have empathy.
The world is not binary like that. Your side is not all good and the other side is not all bad.
I didn’t say they were “all bad.” I said they lacked empathy and I wasn’t interested in being friends with them.
Conservative and progressive brains are different.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/conservative-and-liberal-brains-might-have-some-real-differences/And one of those differences is empathy. https://academic.oup.com/scan/article/18/1/nsad029/7175525
One side has empathy. The other does not.
You generalized as if everyone on the left has empathy and no one on the right does. That’s simply not true. Group differences like this are often larger within the group than between them. While it might be true that, on average, people on the right are less empathetic than those on the left, it’s neither fair nor accurate to imply that one side has empathy and the other doesn’t.
Eh. Fits with what I see in politics, the folks voting for right winger, and my own experiences conversing with them IRL. I see no issue with making that assumption and then being pleasantly surprised the odd time it isn’t true.
Maybe it’s a North America thing, tho. It’s quite possible that the euro flavor of right wing is a more empathetic group.
Ive been down both sides of the indoctrination rabbit hole both the alt left and the alt right pipelines lead to the same place.
Ya, I’m not talking about extremists. I’m talking about just normal everyday people.
Exactly. So therefore ur side who contains its own extremists cant be all good can it. Therefore ur binary view us fundamentally flawed. The more u try and stick to it claim ur side is all righteous and the other side is all evil the the more u become the extremist u claim to denounce.
Never said my side was righteous. I said that one of the main differences between the left and right is empathy. This isn’t an opinion, it’s peer reviewed fact.
It’s bleeding obvious, even without the science.
Every single facist ideology has claimed moral superiority to justify their actions. What makes ur ideology any different from that?
Also pls show me said peer reviewed journals u claim to have.
One would need empathy to see it that way ;)
Empathy is something that can be learned like any ability, it isn’t always a binary you have it or you don’t.
I kind of see your point there. My hope though is that maybe people could gain more empathy for each other by understanding that we are all human and I hope that one day people can understand each other’s struggles.
They see the world as a zero sum game. They can’t imagine being happy unless someone else is unhappy.
I only see people as an enemy if they’ve declared themselves as such. I’m not gonna make the first move, life is too short to make enemies with everyone I meet. That said, if you’ve got a swastika tattooed on your forehead then I’m gonna take that as a declaration that you’re my enemy.
Some are fascists. Some are not. That’s a pretty big distinction.
nah.
I can’t have empathy for fuckheads that want to kill and imprison people based on their sexual preferences or their identity.
I refuse to subject myself to the torture of “working together” with people with fascist ideologies.
I cannot, and will not, coexist with Nazis.
I think op meant more along the lines of normal, everyday people, not radical extremists who hate everyone that isn’t like them.
and by normal, I mean non hate driven people. I believe everyone is weird in some way, there is no “normal”.
the way I described it to my son is everyone has the same right to be happy as he does, you don’t get to dictate that to anyone. we love you for your weirdness and expect the same for anyone else.
In many countries most normal people will harass, imprison or kill people based on sexual preference or gender identity.
Just normal people. Not members of any extremist group. Just the guy who is selling groceries or the gal buying them. Most people on this world hate anyone who is different to them.
White supremacists are not radical extremists in the West, they are the norm. They might be more nuanced than those who display overt bigotry but not by as much as they like to tell themselves.
I have been struggling with this lately. I am staunchly anti violence and anti war, and yet, I am conflicted on how far I truly would be willing to go to cull classism, fascism, racism, transphobia , homophobia, misogyny, and pedophilia from the world.
These things are abhorrent to me, and I wonder how much of my humanity I’d be willing to sacrifice in exchange for even one of these to no longer being in existence amongst the ranks of humanity.
How much good does pacifism give to the world in promoting the better angels of our nature? How much harm does it do when those same principles allow the worst among us to march down our roads and drag away our loved ones in the night?
Two scenes from media I consume have lately continually resurfaced in my mind. One is this scene from Vinland Saga, where the main character’s father confronts him when he finds his sword. The father is about to go off to war, and somberly asks his son who he wants to kill with his father’s sword. This culminates with the father, who again, is about to go off to war, emphatically declaring to his son that he has no enemies, that there is no such thing as enemies.
The other is this scene from Star Wars Andor, in which a high level spy of a burgeoning Rebellion is asked by a compatriot (who wishes to quit fighting the Empire due to possibly being found out), asks what he sacrifices for the fight against the Empire. The monologue he delivers is chilling, acknowledging he sacrifices all things that make him human, he becomes like his enemy in order to defeat them. When he reflects on the question, and asks, “So what do I sacrifice? Everything!”
That…is what I believe I will have to give up in order for there to be a sunrise for the people I love tomorrow. I’ll have to give up my humanity, everything. And I am afraid. I am selfish. I don’t want to. But I don’t know any other way.
The feelings that scene stir up in me resonate because that is how I feel when I think on the fascist cancer that has once again metastasized in America. Having no enemies… if only. Truly. Having enemies robs me of my humanity, because in fighting them I must bury my humanity. And I know that once I do that, there’s no going back. There will be no redemption.
The thing I am struggling with is… am I the one who makes them my enemies? Or are they? And if the only thing we can agree on is that we are enemies…then what choice do we have when they come for me and those I claim as my kin?
i just wanted to say that what you wrote here is beautiful and it helps me clarify my thoughts. ♥️
cull classism, fascism, racism, transphobia , homophobia, misogyny, and pedophilia from the world
One of these is not like the others.
Which one??
Fair enough. To be clear, I am saying I would not like any of these aspects of humankind, not that they are necessarily in any way equivalent. Nor am I trying to necessarily relate them to each other. On their own, I dislike them.
I can see uve put a lot of thought into this.
The beauty of being human is that u have free will. U can choose to believe what u want u can choose to do as u wish.
If u claim that someone is ur enemy then they most certainly 100% are ur enemy. If u do not claim this and they claim that u are their enemy then they are not nessasarilly ur enemy. Its a common trope that you create ur own worste enemies iron man trilogy is a great example of this.
If u where no to be “selfish” (to maximise the life of everyone over urself) then u would donate everythibg u had to make the lives of others better untill ur life is equal to that of the lowest person alive whos life u seek to improve. U would give up ur possessions ur food ur drink the organs u can spare u might even commit self immolation. U clearly are not doibg this so therefore u must admit u are on some level “selfish”.
U could then say this is a ridiculous thing and that u should live to maximise ur own life over everyone else. U could poison the earth destroy the forests dig oil out of the ground to power ur weapons factory that u sell to both sides of a conflict where each side aims to genocide eachother while u push propaganda to extend this state of affairs. You could disrespect the rights of everyone for ur own enjoyment.
It is ur free will to decide where on this spectrum u wish to be. And wherever u may end up its still selfish to some degree.
Say u can create 1 unit of evil to extinguish 1million units of evil will u do this? What about 1 for 100? 1 for 2? 1 for 1.000001? 1 for 1? In all these cases u arw doing evil and at worse u arent making the world a worse place?
Imo:
I would be willing to do almost anything to achieve my goals
Pacifism simply allows the proactive to take advantage of the weak
1.8million people died of a preventable disease last year and ur worried about ur humanity because u will have enemies and thats gonna undermine ur humanity? Are u willing to ignore 1.8million deaths per year to fight another fight that is multiple orders of magnitude less harmfull? Is this not a selfish act?
People go to war and kill other humans. They berry their humanity to do so does this make them unredeemable? Why would u be any different? U can choose to forgive urself whenever u wish u cannot do somthing u truly believe to be wrong (u can have regrets fron learning new info or be forced to do somthing but then thats not on u) cos then u wpuldnt do it.
I think ur scared that trump is a facist and that hes coming to murder u and ur kin. Relax ur fine u are being used. Ur a usefull idiot for the purposes of promoting a political agenda.
If they do come for you then utilise ur second amendment to do everything that u possibly can and take as many as u can with u.
If you prick us do we not bleed? If you tickle us do we not laugh? If you poison us do we not die? And if you wrong us shall we not revenge?
Most people seem to want others not to have a good life, ignoring or disregarding the effects that might have on themselves.
Many if not most would sacrifice their own wellbeing if that guarantees that “the right people” will also suffer. They see the world as a zero sum game, and can’t conceive the possibility of having a good life if others aren’t having a bad one.
Most people suck, often to the point of being monstrous by any decent definition.
most
Source?
I’m pushing back on this viewpoint wherever I’m seeing it. Humans are certainly flawed in a lot of ways, especially in how easy it can be to mislead us, but this cynical worldview that most people are actively wanting others to hurt is not based in reality. Honestly it sounds like me when I was in the depths of depression.
I think we have a major problem with how we share and consume news. Stories are shared as screen-capped headlines that emphasize the Bad thing that happened, and even if you find the original article, it’s stuffed with ads that make you not want to bother. Random one-off bad/stupid things that one person did somewhere far away are reported as world news without statistics and context.
The result? Increasing cynicism. The good, uplifting stories rarely come through. People begin to base their worldview and how they interact with other people on this “fact” that most people suck. This culminates in them becoming the thing that they think everyone is - they go through life scared of or angry at other people by default.
It isn’t an inevitability. Maybe I’m wrong, but believing in people is a much better existence, even when they occasionally let me down.
Problem is that people are fairly easily told that their less-than-optimal situation is the fault of those people, regardless of it being true or not.
- maga republicans stalling legislation to protect americans
- maga republicans forcing legislation to take away human rights given to 80% of the world
- maga republicans publicly releasing a book on who they hate and how they will make them criminals to be imprisoned or killed
- maga republicans lying about how that book, “totally isn’t our thing”
- maga republicans coming out after winning the election saying, “oh yeah, that book is totally our thing”
I mean, I could go on, but I don’t think I need to for my point.
People aren’t telling me how horrible they are. THEY are telling me how terrible they are.
In the case of MAGA it’s more about Trump telling them it’s the minorities fault.
Source?
I mean… [ gestures broadly at everything ]
Yeah checks out for Lemmy
A life of experience being different to people surrounding is my source.
I suppose you can check mental health statistics on people who is different to the group they are living with and see how they are doing.
Also literally most countries legislation legislates against different people with plenty population support.
People is awful.
Like South Park on religion: “you’re all so focused on the stupid little differences that you’re not seeing the big, stupid similarities.”
No. Some people want to control other people because of their various sky daddies or a simple greed. And those are the ones fucking up your life. Everyone else could more or less get along, but fanatics, billionaires and other people hungry for control of others are actively make sure we don’t.
fanatics
Half of Lemmy users included in that group
And someone says they are a trump supporter and suddenly its all just calling everyone a fascist time.
You know what, you’re totally right. There’s plenty of other accurate single-word descriptions that could be used to add some more variety:
Shortsighted, dogmatist, sociopath, mysognist, bootlicker, Neanderthal, degenerate, cultist, egotistical, simpleton, supremacist, etc.
U and the other 7 people who downvoted really did miss op’s point lol.
OP says everyone just wants to have a good life, you come in an intentionally antagonize people. It’s pretty clear who missed the point.
Yep. And a classic case of someone dishing it out without being able to take it. If someone wants to be an antagonistic jerk, they don’t have the right to be shocked Pikachu and pretend to have the moral high ground when their attitude is met in kind.
They get really mad when you point out that Harris is also fascist by there definition.
In reality they are in a echo chamber where they only see good things about Harris and bad things about Trump
Democrats can be considered fascists by their own definition, but let’s not pretend MAGA is any less of an echo chamber. On zero hands, I can count the number of times that a MAGA member actually knew anything about gender affirming healthcare while arguing with me why it shouldn’t exist.
The only thing that should matter is the candidates representing both sides are corrupt trash that put the interests of their multimillionaire friends and corporate lobbyists over their own constituents.
Zero hands hey? So never?
