there’s more than shown here and it’s more than just these users too 😭
if you find the thread don’t piss in the popcorn (brigade) but also please maybe don’t bring it back here i don’t want 400 notifications of entry level “is almond milk milk” vegan discourse
“I’ve been sober all day.” is my new comeback when someone insults my intelligence in an argument.
I like how the wording may imply that being sober that particular day might be in contrast to other days.
I’ve so been all day
Transcribing the conversation here:
Recessa, ↑4 ↓1: That’s completely idiotic, milk exist because there’s demand for it.
commie, ↑1 ↓4: I think you understand that milk is produced as part of the mammalian reproductive cycle. can you describe the causal steps between demanding milk and it’s production?
friendlymessage, ↑3 ↓2: Do you think dairy cattle just randomly spawns on the planetary surface?
commie, ↑1 ↓3: do you think there’s a direct causal link between drinking milk and more being produced?
friendlymessage, ↑3: Are you fucking with me?
commie, ↑2 ↓3: no. I’m trying to illustrate that markets are not governed by natural law; they are populated by irrational actors.
friendlymessage, ↑2 ↓1: Yeah, but they’re not as irrational as you are and producing milk costs money. If there’s no market, they will stop because they are not fuckin lunatics and they don’t have infinite resources
commie, ↑2 ↓2: milk was farmed before markets existed. there is no reason to believe that will ever stop.
friendlymessage, ↑3 ↓1: That… must be the dumbest discussion I’ve had in a while. Please read through your comments tomorrow when you’re sober
commie, ↑1 ↓1: I’ve been sober all day.
friendlymessage, ↑1: Okay, whatever you say
commie, ↑1 ↓2: everything I’ve said is true. you’re objecting to reality, and being pretty shitty about it to me.
friendlymessage, ↑2: No, you’re just making a no sensical argument at all. Milk was farmed from dairy cattle because it was consumed by humans. It’s simple supply and demand. There is no rational argument at all that if mankind stopped consuming milk, it would still be farmed. Why would any farmer go through the effort to upkeep cows and keep them impregnanted to make them produce milk if they cannot trade it or won’t consume it? Yes, humans have free will but they won’t produce stuff with very high effort just for fun. Except maybe very sick minds that just enjoy animal cruelty. And you won’t elaborate what your actual point is anyway.
Also, not that it matters, but you’re arguing that dairy farming existed before the market is simply wrong. There has been trade between human civilizations long before we started domesticating animals.
There’s a common misunderstanding among a lot of .ml folks that markets are a capitalist thing and if you just don’t call them that then they don’t exist.
Obviously nobody drank milk in the USSR shitlib
My paternal grandmother, who claimed to milk 200 cows per day every day, would disagree.
Everyone knows that history starts at the industrial revolution and no one had went “hey I’ll give you two goats if you give me some salt” before that.
… they’re not a .ml user
Also it’s just untrue lol? We know markets predate capitalism, I’d be surprised to find anyone disagreeing
Thank you for your service o>
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In my defense: there already was a very deep comment chain before this and the whole thing was just infuriatingly stupid
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Can you rephrase their argument? To me it’s nonsense
Commie thinks that milk is just a byproduct of cows existing. Friendlymessage correctly points out that you need to repeatedly get cows pregnant, take away their calves, and feed them to produce milk and nobody would do it if there wasn’t a market demand. In essence, there’s zero situation where milk can be ethically vegan if that’s your ethical framework.
Commie implied that milk was farmed before markets existed and I was honestly baffled
I didn’t have a good grasp of history. apparently we mined before developing agriculture, which is wild to me.
What would mining have to do with agriculture and therefore milk?
mining was the Genesis if trade, but it’s assumed it would have followed trade. I also was mistaken that trade would, therefore, follow animal agriculture.
Edit: incorrect: You don’t need to keep getting them pregnant, you just need to consistently keep milking them. Milk production continues for as long as it is not left untaken. Definitely not vegan at all.
That’s absolutely incorrect. It’s a significant amount of time, around 10 months, but you have to repeatedly get a cow pregnant over their useful life in order to continue getting milk from them. They will go dry faster if you don’t milk them, but the cycle of pregnant/lactating/dry/pregnant is fundamental in managing a herd.
I stand corrected.
This is btw one main reason why milk is murder, because many of those calves are often killed for their meat. The other reason is that cows stop beeing productive and are killed way before their natural death, since the replacement calves are rdy to go (I think it was something like after 5 years with their natural life span beeing around 25, but I’m not sure if I remember correctly).
A bit oversimplified, but just to add a bit more context why vegans don’t drink milk.
there’s zero situation where milk can be ethically vegan if that’s your ethical framework.
risking incivility, duh.
it’s an animal product
Commie thinks that milk is just a byproduct of cows existing.
I never said that
please maybe don’t bring it back here
no u
😾 meanie head
Commie sounds like a baby leftist that hasn’t read Das Kapital yet. He wouldn’t be trying to make this argument if he actually read Marx.
friendlymessage is arguing that if there’s no demand for milk (ie people stop drinking milk), then the production of milk will fall or cease.
I have no idea what commie is talking about
I think commie begins saying that milk is naturally produced during the normal birthing of young. Then gets side tracked by the commercial aspect of milk as a product. Namely, no demand, no product. I could be wrong…
this wasn’t the start of the conversation
Appreciate it but your comment got auto corrected on two instances of “causal” to “casual” by commie.
Oh, I don’t use autocorrect, so that was probably my mistake. Fixed it now!
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Bringing this full circle, it reminds me of a time I saw an entire long Reddit chain nuked by a mod who was astounded that people indulged the “Europeans never ate beans before Columbus and if you call that thing that originally came from Eurasia a bean, you’re wrong” guy for so long.
It’s times like these that remind me I don’t get paid for this shit.
this is 1/100th of the insanity that happened on the reddit sub r/milk
I’m pretty sure there was a riot because the mods said almond milk was allowed or something like thatI love drinking almond milk right from the almond nipple
Milk is the best part of the woman
That explains why mine was so unapetizing.
You: hates milke because it is unethical
Me: hates milk because it is fucking disgusting.
We are not the same
me fr: hates milk because IT CURDLES SO FAST WHAT THE HELL JUST LET ME DRINK IT I BOUGHT THIS YESTERDAY
Had this start happening and got a new fridge, didn’t happen anymore. Do your veggies also spoil quickly? If so, your fridge likely be bork.
i’m exaggerating quite a bit but hope this comment is helpful for others who might be struggling with time traveling milk!
It was wild, would buy milk and a couple days later it was chunky. Fridge always felt cool. When the veggies started spoiling on a similar time scale we decided it was best to replace, thankfully had a solid landlord.
The next time I had a bad fridge it would freeze things randomly. Milk and lettuce would freeze, but stuff next to it was fine. Figured it was haunted, bought a new one as at this point I was my own landlord.
Moral of the story, refrigerant leaks are no joke and can do weird shit.
omg that sounds awful i feel so blessed to have never had these refrigerator woes 🙀
Raw milk is totally safe…if the cow is totally healthy and if there aren’t pathogens floating around the cow.
I mean, my friend next door used to drink off the cows’s teats. His Mom would scold him for it, but he did it to show off. We used to milk their three “city cows”. Literally the cows would sleep in their garage and then walk to pasture on an every day basis. They would get milked every morning and we would walk to their house and buy a couple of liters from them. Sometimes cheese or bulgaros yogurt.
Everyone loved the cows. They smelled like cows but you could safely pet them and not expect feces on your hands.
The cows we get milk from are all rolling around in feces in confined space and they eat dry moldy feed. Like that stuff is total animal abuse and prone to end up giving someone a cow Bourne disease of some kind.
My neighbors also had pigs and we had pigs. That is why we never ate pig… cows are clean compared to pigs. Pigs will eat bugs smeared in pig feces. That is not normal really because pigs in the wild, although dirty, do not just swim in their feces like captive pigs do. If you ever want to go vegan for whatever reason, visit a captive pig farm. Learn that smell…then go to the butcher shop’s trash bin and learn that smell…then realize that when you get your meat in your fridge, the death smell is what you’re smelling. Makes me wanna puke 🤮 just thinking about it. And if your neighbors ever killed a pig, you would know it. Pigs don’t go down easy. That’s one positive thing I can definitely say about pigs. They know you’re gonna kill them and they scream like anyone would…as in a person. It churns you inside out hearing that scream and then when it stops you know it happened. Pigs don’t go down quietly.
Anyway don’t eat animals, but if you’re gonna eat milk or dairy, make sure it’s pasteurized! Any well understood retarded person like myself could agree 💯👍.
I am happy I live in ireland, the standard for milk and stuff seems to be higher here.
r-slur spotted, comment ignored.
Vegan cat food
What the fuck did you just fucking say about me, you little bitch? I’ll have you know I graduated top of my class in the Navy Seals, and I’ve been involved in numerous secret raids on Al-Quaeda, and I have over 300 confirmed kills. I am trained in gorilla warfare and I’m the top sniper in the entire US armed forces. You are nothing to me but just another target. I will wipe you the fuck out with precision the likes of which has never been seen before on this Earth, mark my fucking words. You think you can get away with saying that shit to me over the Internet? Think again, fucker. As we speak I am contacting my secret network of spies across the USA and your IP is being traced right now so you better prepare for the storm, maggot. The storm that wipes out the pathetic little thing you call your life. You’re fucking dead, kid. I can be anywhere, anytime, and I can kill you in over seven hundred ways, and that’s just with my bare hands. Not only am I extensively trained in unarmed combat, but I have access to the entire arsenal of the United States Marine Corps and I will use it to its full extent to wipe your miserable ass off the face of the continent, you little shit. If only you could have known what unholy retribution your little “clever” comment was about to bring down upon you, maybe you would have held your fucking tongue. But you couldn’t, you didn’t, and now you’re paying the price, you goddamn idiot. I will shit fury all over you and you will drown in it. You’re fucking dead, kiddo.
Fantastic 🤌
We got a fresh copypasta before GTA VI
Guys, stop downvoting this person, technically theyre right even if they are wrong by a couple of decades.
Yyeah but if their definition of “fresh” includes the navy seals copypasta, then by god don’t let them sell milk
This copypasta is closer to GTA IV than GTA VI on the timeline.
Well, now I feel 20 years older, lol
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Almond milk is a waste of water and is priced out of poor families ability to buy them :(
I know. Almond milk is a huge waste of water. But unfortunately, it’s harder to find others like oat and soy in their unsweetened variants.
this is based on poore-nemececk 2018, a meta"study" that ignores guidance on LCA studies being unable to be combined, and doesn’t even have the integrity to disclose this in the paper. it’s bad science.
“Bad science” is commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com for “I don’t want this to be true”.
it could be true, but the study used to support it is flawed.
“flawed study” is @commie@lemmy.dbzer0.com for “I didn’t like the conclusions some researcher who spent a long time looking into all the scientific studies drew, so I’m going to cast vague doubts about it instead”
That just depends on where you are. It is as prevalent in major cities in my state as oat, soy, and alternatives.
major cities
Yeah, I don’t live near one of those. I’d probably raise my carbon footprint more by driving an hour than I would buying a different milk.
Found the carnist
no u
Damn, I didn’t make the screenshot.
make no mistake being in this thread is not a mark of honor lmao
Wanna swap?
I would just like to bring up that most equestrians don’t farm their horses milk. Without demand it would probably be similar
Production do be existing cause of demand tho
Exhibit A: Cheese.
It took me way too long to admit that the poster was talking about production as in “is being produced by nature without human interference” and not “humans produce it because humans want it”
Naw, they think that a reduction in demand would not reduce supply. As to why anyone would keep making production levels of milk to rot away with no buyers? They need to see it to believe it.
Ohhhh. Thanks
that is not what i was saying
Then what the heck were you saying? That a family might keep a couple goats around? Because I think that still counts as demand.
I’m saying that demand does not cause production.
It looks like there are a few ISPs, countries, and general blacklists that block them. Explains why my firewall and DNS filters are catching it. Oh well. I can look more into fixing it later if it really becomes an issue.
It also seems to just generally be slow sometimes. This time it loaded instantly but often it takes a couple of tries and a good amount of patience lol
