Summary
Jasmine Mooney, a 35-year-old Canadian woman, has been detained in U.S. immigration facilities since March 3 after attempting to enter with an incomplete Trade NAFTA work visa application.
She was initially held at San Ysidro border crossing before being transferred in chains to detention centers in San Diego and Arizona.
Her mother, Alexis Eagles, reports inhumane conditions including overcrowded concrete cells with constant lighting and inadequate facilities.
Business partner BJ McCaslin called the situation a “nightmare” while Global Affairs Canada confirmed they’re aware but unable to intervene in U.S. immigration matters.
In a statement, Global Affairs Canada said consular officials are in contact with local authorities to gather additional information and provide consular assistance.
“Every country or territory decides who can enter or exit through its borders. The Government of Canada cannot intervene on behalf of Canadian citizens with regard to the entry and exit requirements of another country,” the statement read.
Whilst smiling very slightly manically, and quietly whispering with the eyes ”I’m going to fucking murder you, and I’m going to take my time about it”
This is a Type 2 “Sorry” scenario
How to make anyone scared to ever visit your country again…
B.C. woman held in detention for 11 days after trying to enter U.S. to be released, father says
Grateful to the family using their privledge and platform to talk about the conditions at the San Ysidro border crossing, the San Diego cells, and in San Luis Regional Detention Center. Keeping the lights on all the time is torture.
“There’s 30 other people in her cell that have not even been spoken to by a detention caseworker. So there are people in there whose families don’t know where their kids are.” - Jasmine’s father, Stephen Mooney.
…
[B.C. Premier David Eby] also said he was “profoundly concerned about these kind of actions” by the U.S. administration, saying they “violate the very idea that Canadians are safe in the U.S. when we visit.”
“The nature of our relationship is so fraught right now that this case makes us all wonder, you know, what about our relatives who are working in the States? What about when we cross the border, what kind of experience are we gonna have?” Eby said.
Yukon Premier Ranj Pillai also weighed in on Thursday, with a letter to the acting director of U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement urging Jasmine’s “prompt release,” and saying “the treatment of our citizens while in the U.S. must be fair and transparent.”
…“violate the very idea that Canadians are safe in the U.S. when we visit.”
Mexico and friends: “¿primer tiempo?”
Idk why you’d ever want to go to america, but now the time is even worse
I was planning on travelling to California to meet a good friend of mine. I explained that I’ve had to change plans amist…well, all this, and my friend said something along the lines of “I don’t blame you, I wouldn’t even consider visiting this country for the next 4 years”.
I know that feel, but I would have never thought I would understand feeling like so towards the US until the current regime. Last time I felt it, the country in question was Iran lol
Honestly, same. It’s still really surreal to me.
That’s what the family are thinking about now that she’s being (hopefully) released. She apparently spent thousands building up some kind of business down there and now that’s up in the air.
B.C. woman held in detention for 11 days after trying to enter U.S. to be released, father says
“Of course, we’ve got to question that now — do you really want to work in the States after this has happened to you?” [Mooney’s dad, Stephen] said.
“That process down there is terrible, and I believe it’s worse because of the new administration, because of Trump … I would be cautious for anyone to go into the States.”
I have family down there that I may never get to see again, and I’m still not going. Fuck that, I’d rather die homeless and alone in Canada than go back into enemy territory. Sorry mom, I’ll visit your grave someday… possibly. Or you can visit mine, whichever comes first. Either way, it’s all good.
If this is how they treat a white Canadian businesswoman, imagine what they’re doing to non-white migrants. System’s rotten to the core.
🐱
guns
theres a channel 5 segment on it, the dude decided to cross from mexico with “coyotes” back into the US, as an american, and they got caught. spent several days in shite conditions, and talks about whole process. its pretty interesting.
Channel five is fucking wild. I love it.
Bald and bankrupt did a video that is much more in depth on the trail the illegal immigrants use. Anybody who’s willing to go through that hell to get to the States isn’t someone in worried about paying welfare for, those people got fucking gumption.
It’s depressing how much better Americans the illegals often are compared to the native trash we have in the south.
They should be terrified of great replacement, that’s like upgrading from a burning pinto to a Bugatti.
They are terrified. The US got Texas with great replacement in the 1840’s. White people came legally at first and then streamed across the border overwhelming the natives and Mexicans and they brought slaves and when Mexico told them slavery is illegal they declared the Texas revolution and more white Americans came to help fight it (including Davy Crockett) and they won and a few years later the US annexed Mexico
They fear Mexicans doing the same thing back. They won’t, but conservative white people don’t believe that.
You are giving them too much credit, they didn’t study history. Conservatives fear them because their world is so small and the unknown scares them. They’re terrified because they’ve never been abroad, they live their whole ass lives knowing the same people they grew up with, driving the same roads, working the same shit job.
They don’t understand everyone is just a person.
guns
Similar to what was done in both Florida and Hawai’i too.
They just might now.
Inhuman treatment of others is the first sign you might be a closet Nazi. Our nation has soiled the bed, and keeps rolling around in it insisting nothing is wrong.
Canada needs a Dennis Rodman to send over to try to get the hostages back like Obama did with North Korea
I thought that’s why you sent Gretzky? You can have him back btw.
Basketball diplomacy builds good will.
Business partner BJ McCaslin called the situation a “nightmare” while Global Affairs Canada confirmed they’re aware but unable to intervene in U.S. immigration matters.
Oh fuck that, what else does Global Affairs do if not at the very least advocate for Canadians imprisoned in a hostile foreign nation? She was stopped and jailed for not having a complete work visa, that is not an immigration matter its a refusal of entry issue. Like whats the crime here? And not deporting someone due to them not being allowed in the US (but then holding them in the US) should be an act of war.
America is now an axis of evil state. No better than Iran or Russia.
“Axis of evil” was a phrase coined by W in order to justify his highly illegal “war on terror”, and we’re still paying the price for that. Just adopting a propaganda concept this stupid as a viable way to categorize nations is not a good move.
Also ironic given Iran is in this state because of US imperialism
Comparing Iran to Russia and the US is strange in every way. Iran has a very defensive military, geared towards defending Iran. There aren’t exactly private military contractors from Iran everywhere just murdering anyone that isn’t snow white. Iran hasn’t surrounded the US with military bases. People just completely swallowed that axis of evil horseshit.
Um look I‘m completely against both Russian and American imperialism, but they did support Assad in Syria: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iranian_intervention_in_the_Syrian_civil_war
Iirc they sent their revolutionary guards there to fight. And Hezbollah was deeply involved in defending the Assad regime. With the Houthis, Hamas and Hezbollah they do have proxy armies in the Middle East.
Iran is a lovely country and its horrible what western imperialism has done to it, but their regime is as shitty as it gets. If Palestine were suddenly freed from the Zionists and they’d be under the influence of Iran instead it would be the same shit all over again, saying this just to make a point.
Iran got involved in Syria to fight IS, the same people that rebranded as HTS, the leader of which now has put on a suit, changed his name and rules the new Syria. One of the first thing they did: started massacring minorities in Syria by the thousands, just in the last week. Also, Syria is in the Middle East, next to Iran. Iran isn’t involved in military operations in Mexico. If IS wasn’t stopped in Iraq and Syria, they’d be massacring civilians in Iran, since Iranians are Shia and therefore heretics to be killed.
Your view unfortunately seems to have been influenced by the classification of nations as axis of evil that I referred to above. It’s confused and incoherent, and lacks a whole lot of nuance. That’s what happens when nations are classified as “evil”, which is a metaphysical religious term making nuance impossible. You say “if Palestine were suddenly freed from the Zionists”, thereby implying that you consider this a worth while goal, while simultaneously vilifying the only forces in the region working to achieve that liberation, namely Hamas, Hizbollah and Ansar Allah in Yemen, as “proxy armies” of Iran, completely delegitimizing their agency and the fight for the very liberation you seem to support.
Finally, it’s absolutely wild to state that a Palestine under the influence of Iran would be “the same shit all over again” as the almost century long oppression, occupation, dispossession and genocide carried out by the Zionists against the Palestinian people. Absolutely wild! I urge you to take a step back and consider that statement, and why you would make such an absurd and outrageous claim to begin with. Because I feel like you’re doing that without thinking about it a whole lot, and would reconsider that position if you thought about the comparison you’re making. Iran has zero designs on dispossessing or occupying Palestine and its people. To compare that with what Israel has been doing is just not a good look.
Oh please. Out of all the people the US had harmed, the current Iranian regime has caused the vast majority of its own problems. China and even Russia you can find a arguably sympathetic angle for if you’re motivated enough. The Iranian regime is simply inhuman and lost.
the iranian regime is the work of the cia. they thought they could manipulate the religious fundamentalists, so they supported a coup against a democratically elected president, with a budget of $1M in 1953
there is way more, check it out, if you’re interested
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIA_activities_in_IranYou should read some history, mate. Learn what the CIA did to enrage the Iranians so much…
And the Iranian regime is a paragon of freedom and justice. Got it. Lol.
Recycling is very important if we are going to avoid environmental catastrophe.
Hence Starmer used the phrase ‘Coalition of the willing’
Save the planet one phrase at a time!
More like the war of terror
i believe all states are evil, to be honest!
some are just actively persuing evil stuff more than others
but given half a chance, capitalists in any country would turn to fascism
It’s starting to seem like Canada should issue a travel advisory against going to the USA.
In some ways I hope it doesn’t come to that. In others … I mean, I’d win a friendly bet if it happened, so there’s that.
Honestly yeah, if a paperwork fuck up can get you detained for more than 24 hours there’s something seriously wrong and travelling there is dangerous for the border police alone.
If I were in charge, that’s exactly what I would do. “US ICE agents are detaining Canadian citizens at the border. Until and unless US agents stop detaining Canadians at the border and return those they have detained, we are advising Canadian citizens to not travel to the USA.” Post it right next to all other Canadian travel advisories.
And do what Lithuania did at the Belarusian border: There are signs telling pretty much the analogue to what you’re suggesting. On the roadside while approaching the border. As physical signs.
If you guys do that take pictures and send them to America so we can put them in political ads.
Here’s an article that includes a picture like you asked: https://www.orla.fm/a-disturbing-message-on-the-lithuanian-border-do-not-travel-to-belarus-you-may-not-come-back/
Ooo thank you.
There already is a travel advisory in Canada. It’s more personal though.
If I tell my friend I’m going to the states they’ll stage an intervention.
“You’re desire to travel to the US hurts me in the following ways…”
Not just Canada, there’s similar stories for a lot of nationalities, every country should be putting out warnings.
The US has lost it’s mind.
Couple the immigration issues with the fact that planes keep falling out of the sky in their air space due to air traffic control being gutted and even flying to Canada starts becoming dangerous too.
I’ll be avoiding the whole of North America for the foreseeable future, it’s just not safe.
When the courts said it was legal for a billionaire to spend 250 million to buy votes, I knew there was nothing left of our Democracy. I asked around, no one I knew had 250 million to buy votes for Kamala. Sorry guys.
Not just Canada…
Fucking shameful. This is how we treat our allies? I am ashamed to be an American.
TBF, this is how we treat Americans.
^^^
That and threatening to eliminate our country altogether. We’re not really feeling the “allies” thing these days. I fairly often visit the USA, but I’m rethinking that now, along with many other Canadians. And I’m taking my money out of the USA too, wherever possible.
If I was a foreigner, I would not visit the US at all right now.
I am a foreigner and I won’t anymore. Used to go to Florida during autumn vacation. Now we’ll just go to Italy or Spain. No Jetlag and the Flights are cheaper as well
As a Californian why even go to Florida to begin with, seriously there are infinitely better places in Mexico alone not even factoring in the Caribbean or Central America.
The climate of the Carribeans with the (relative) safety of the US. That’s all there is to it.
Also we don’t like it when you’re in these Hotels for tourists from rich countries where your meal costs more than the staff earns. It just feels wrong. And inside you have this completely artificial experience that shatters as soon as you leave the hotel area. It’s just not relaxing and morally wrong.
Also the Reason why we’re staying in Europe next year despite loving the carribean climate.
I was thinking of the more rural portions of Baja and less touristy portions of Belize, but then again my kin have always preferred the risks associated staying away from corpo crap. My grandfather used to train jump down to Mexicali and Tijuana for dinner for context of what I think of as a good time. Is it really a road trip if ya don’t nearly get shanked at a rural Nevadan gas station.
Yeah we don’t really like those “corpo crap” holidays as well (if “corpo crap” means “classical commercial tourist destinations”). We prefer to go somewhere smaller away from all the stress and pickpockets. Rent a Hotelroom or small vacation-house and explore the place in our own pace.
But again, we’re pretty risk-averse. Rome was already stressful for us because we were always afraid of getting pickpocketed. I couldn’t imagine going to a country that isn’t politically stable. I just couldn’t relax.
So yeah, we don’t like that “corpo crap” either, but we also are pretty risk-averse. That’s why we usually vacate in regions that are stable and pretty rich (similar Level to Switzerland) and not too touristy. We’re a difficult clientele, I know ;PP
I wouldn’t visit them after, it’s obvious most Americans are okay and happy to sit down and accept this.
Most Americans don’t KNOW about this shit. Most of us get their news from Fox and they’re not saying anything negative about the administration. Except for sometimes having a token liberal on a talk show get shouted down by the five hosts.
Fox broke records with 4.8M viewers out of a country of 340m.
Most of you get your news from social media sharing.
OK, still most of us have no idea what is going on. They see nothing but stuff supporting the administration. Cable news and social media are all arms of state media. Propaganda is a hell of a drug.
Now, those Americans that have no desire to hear anything critical of their views… I can blame indoctrination but I can also blame the masses of this country.
Most of us are NOT okay with this.
The government created media infrastructure to isolate people from each other so most of us would not find out. It’s like the Matrix.
A lot of us know and are trying to do things about it.
Many of us would rather fight for Canada than against. Don’t fret the threats. Likely a lot of people, even some who voted for tRump, would be done defending this administration and maybe we’d see that well armed militia we keep hearing about!
They will quite literally do anything for him. I’m so sorry.
The US has allies??
The US has countries that it used to know.
But we didn’t have to cut you off.
Hopefully in 4 years we can make out like it never happened and that it was nothing.
So basically 2009 and 2021 all over again.
Now and then I think of all the times you screwed me over.
Yeah, their client state Israel, as well as Russia and presumably its client state, Belarus
Who’s who’s client state again?
Israel is America’s client state. If Israel magically ceased to exist, America would recreate it, so as to maintain their military position in the region. If America magically ceased to exist, Israel would soon follow.
Though the way things are going, pretty soon they’ll both be more like Belarus
*had
Even its Canadian girl friend left it
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We never had allies, we barely knew those countries, they might have gotten coffee for us at some point?
/s
Since there is a certain psycho suggesting all Americans go to war for their personal protection I will take the opportunity to ride the top comment with this attempt at organizing a general strike in the US.
Any general strike attempt will need to have some support from unions or similar groups with influence among large parts of essential industries. While there is a nice starting list of partners there, I don’t yet see the kind of big names necessary for an effective general strike, especially a country-wide one.
I hope the organizers are seriously reaching out to large established organizations.
It’s gotta start somewhere. FWIW I have been following this for at most a month and it is increased by at least 70,000 people. Not that that’s enough, but 300,000 people ain’t nothing.
That’s true, and if we’re lucky, some of those 300,000 people can help make it happen.
Canada isn’t an ally anymore
Friendship with Canada ended. Now Putin is best friend
Friendship with Poutine ended. Now Putin is best friend
americans do not have allies, they have minions and masters. you should have started that shame a long time ago.
Putin’s bidding to fracture the deepest alliances of the West under utterly bullshit pretenses.
I do not find it a coincidence that its been happening specifically to young women. Yet to see 6’2 Canadian male hockey player get grabbed.
I guarantee you they do not care. This is far more likely to be media bias. If they’re detaining her for an incomplete visa instead of just turning her around then they’re detaining people every day, no matter their nationality or body build. It sounds cool to think they’d be afraid of a large guy but the US police are sadly just more likely to kill them with guns.
This is far more likely to be media bias.
Yeah the story of the German girl it happened to around the same time included her talking about a Spanish lad in the cell with her for the same thing.
Not saying it wasn’t reported on in Spain but I didn’t see his case anywhere in the news.
It did happen to an Irish girl too last month. Fortunately we’ve fairly decent relations with the US but unfortunately it didn’t sound like her treatment was any better than this tbh.
That could just be the media’s bias in reporting.
Yeah, same happens with kidnapping and murder victims. There’s a reason it’s called Missing White Woman Syndrome. The media is extremely biased towards covering attractive young white women who have gone missing, while virtually every other demographic gets ignored. Asian and Latina women are often covered disproportionately as well, but not to the extent that missing white women are covered. Black women get almost no coverage, and the same goes for men of basically every race and age.
I remember many years ago, there were two little girls that went missing about the same time. One was white, the other black. The little white girl just got lost and was found pretty quickly, and her story dominated the news for weeks. Meanwhile, the little black girl (I think it was in West Virginia) had been kidnapped by a sadistic couple who abused and tortured her until one night she chewed through her bindings, escaped, and trekked through the forest for days before finding help. She barely got a “missing girl found” blurb on the news. The fact that she barely got any news coverage actually became a bigger story later on than her actual kidnapping did at the time. It was infuriating.
Don’t even get me started on the missing and murdered indigenous women (MMIW) phenomenon that not only gets next to zero media coverage, but also a severe lack of law enforcement attention.
With MMIW, often the cops are involved/know more than they let on. “Starlight tours” I don’t think are just a Canadian thing.
Yeah, the way we treat the native peoples of this land is abhorrent.
Native women have been getting kidnapped for centuries. It’s not even news.
There’s a good TV series called Alaska daily, which has this phenomenon play a big part of the storyline
Sure but I also remember trumps first term where thousands of specifically migrant women in US custody were unaccounted for for months. Im not in the habbit of giving people with track records of human trafficking benefits of doubt.
maybe! americans DO hate women really really passionately. there was a famous canadian author who wrote a book about it.
Some Americans do. Other Americans hate those Americans fairly passionately.
I would argue that we are not americans. just people who were born here and can’t get out.
Now it come back around to the white people
no amount of conformity will ever make you safe under fascism. the noose will always tighten to meet the fascists’ needs for torture. once the old enemy is eliminated a new hegemony will be homogenized and the torture will continue either at the same pace or accelerated.
it’s not really about skin tone, accent, visa access, sexual identity, gender identity, or even political stance. it’s about that the fascists must other, and they will other you any way that thy can.
Yep, just like how conservatives wanted to ignore aids since they thought it would only kill gays and drug users. They fail to see how their cruelty will come back around on themselves.
They’re 100% going to go after PREP, PEP, doxy, etc. There is already a hidden epidemic of antibiotic resistant syphillis and gonorrhea.
This will also be a leopard eating faces thing, considering the sheer quantity of “straight” conservative men that enjoy “the apps”…
Or when Jared didn’t want to respond to COVID because it was mainly hitting blue cities.
White-Canadians now have the rare experience to feel what it is like to be brown in America.
Build a wall…around the USA. WTF!!!
Wall? I thought we upgraded to an Iron Dome?
I thought we upgraded to an Iron Dome?
Yes, you did think that. Thanks for asking.
We need and have always needed a wall around the south, when nafta started they infested my Midwestern town with their crime and drugs and it went to hell overnight.
Nothing worse than having those southerners come in with their crime and drugs and interrupting your midwestern meth making, meth taking, and meth related crimes.
… They brought the meth, we just had alcohol, some weed (not much).
Do you know anything about the Midwest?
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Please stop grandstanding lol. There are grassroot leftist movements that have been organizing, setting up mutual aid networks, etc. for years. Guess who has been suppressing those movements? The State and Corporate media. And, man, they got you convinced that 340 million people in one of the most diverse countries in the world somehow all think the same. Obviously we don’t. If we did, it’d be a hell of a lot easier to organize the masses, wouldn’t it?
Launching an attack on the most powerful military in the world is going to require more than pea shooters, my guy. I know this is the first time Canadians have felt a legitimate threat on their democracy in like 200 years, unless your First Nations. Let’s be real— I’m in Texas and you’re in Canada. Odds are you are much closer to D.C. than majority of Americans actually are. You severely underestimate how large and spread out this empire actually is— hence why it is crumbling.
first time Canadians have felt a legitimate threat on their democracy in like 200 years, **unless your First Nations. **
Big ups for including that.
Yeah, because French Canadians being genocided and force assimilated didn’t count, apparently.
For those who didn’t know, yes genocide was attempted and yes force assimilation was attempted. Many died. We survived in the end, but a lot of blood was shed. I don’t really expect Americans to know this. Some barely know Canada has a French speaking population.
Hello there. I do a lot of research into history. I wasn’t aware of any French Canadian genocide so I decided to google it, and all that came up was the indigenous genocide committed by the Canadian people.
Can you link to specifically what part of history you are referring to? All I can see about French Canadians (Quebecois) are that they were the colonizers.
There were many attempts by the English to make the Québécois renounce French AND Catholicism and those who refused publicly to pledge loyalty to the crown in the past were hung for treason, they were even forcing many to change their family names to English names (my father’s family had their name forcibly changed, it’s in the archives).
The genocide attempts were never publicly aknowledged by Canada and are only taught in history class in Québec. Hell, even Le Grand Dérangement (the deportation and genocide of Acadiens, which is better known than the attempts in Québec) was never aknowledged as a genocide by Canada (which is fucking stupid if you know anything about Canadian history). Even better fact for you: the native genocides weren’t recognized until recently either. Canada has a terrible track record of recognizing genocides.
Edit: All I can find in English is a few references to Le Grand Dérangement and I barely find anything in French on my search engine. I refuse to use Google to search at all, so you can feel free to contact French Canadian historians at McGill or something if you doubt what the English did to my people.
Here is a well known report that proves the English were actively considering my people as inferior and needing to assimilate to be eradicated, since they literally considered us a different “race” of people (this is in English for you):
https://www.alloprof.qc.ca/en/students/vl/history/the-durham-report-h1557
It doesn’t explained how they enacted this, but you best believe they enacted it in the worst ways possible.
The eye rolling number of non-Americans who think 2A is about overthrowing the government instead of just making it a little less easy and more costly for them to show up at your door and stomp you into the ground.
The US government is not going to be overthrown by a ragtag civilian militia. It’s not happening. Even if we actually had anything resembling an organized and united civilian militia that could strategize enough to execute a large-scale operation, we would still lose hilariously because we don’t have drones, missiles, helicopters, or tanks.
Stop demanding that we just start blasting. That’s not going to help. You live in a fantasy world. Your countries have actual military resources. YOU start blasting if you think it will help.
we would still lose hilariously because we don’t have drones, missiles, helicopters, or tanks.
Those alone don’t win wars, the USA’s military history is more than enough evidence of that, not to mention guerilla movements in other countries past and present. I’m not trivializing their power either, but when we’re talking about resistance rather than the idealistic 2A government overthrow fantasy, it’s important not to simply assume that the state’s technological advantage makes any armed resistance futile.
I don’t think it makes any resistance futile by any means. I just think the “just start blasting” attitude I keep seeing from people is naive, glib, and unconstructive. Guerilla resistance can absolutely be a powerful tool, but it requires a huge amount of coordination and solidarity that doesn’t really exist in our population right now and is not going to suddenly begin existing overnight.
The most important thing people can be doing right now is networking and organizing, identifying likeminded people and building community with them. This is the foundation of ANY effective resistance. And people ARE doing that.
I just think the “just start blasting” attitude I keep seeing from people is naive
That’s true, although I must be in different circles because I don’t see it much.
Def agree with the rest.
I mostly see it on here and Reddit, usually in the form of some non-American screaming, “oh my god just use 2A!”
You have illustrated just how unhinged you are in the rest of your comments. You don’t seem to understand that we are all trying to live our relatively normal lives while also figuring out what to do about this.
Here’s a hypothetical: I have two children under 6, my wife works full-time, I work 50 hours a week to keep a roof over my family’s heads and food in their mouths, I also make 2/3 of our household income, we have no real support system to speak of. We’re in Texas, so the allies I have are extremely limited, and do not include any of my family other than my brother, who doesn’t live here. We’re trying to figure out how to get out of here but it’s difficult and frankly I don’t know if we can afford it.
So you’re suggesting I do what? Go buy a gun for me and the three able bodied liberals I know (also fathers of young children) , kiss my family goodbye, drive for 2 days, get fired, and go do ourselves a good ol domestic terrorism? So you can feel better about the hell that WE not you are living through? And all because I committed the crime of being born in the wrong place and unable to escape? Get fucked.
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What am i, one unaffiliated person, going to do against a tyrannical government? Go commit suicide by cop? You are literally asking me to martyr myself and my family for your feelings.
What am i, one unaffiliated person, going to do against a tyrannical government?
Affiliate.
No serious struggle can be resisted alone. Organizing is necessary, this is especially clear when looking at groups which successfully resisted fascist invasion.
I’m asking you to do what you can to stop a situation that’s far worse than the situation you described.
We’re asking you to stop trolling
Such as?
https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/03/how-workers-won-the-weekend
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner’s_Rebellion
There’s tons more, there’s a whole Enlightenment Period to learn from. Of course, I posted these links before and they get downvoted, no doubt Americans will downvote the sacrifices of peoples who fought for their comforts today. Shameful culture without a shared history among them.
You can’t just post links to the past like that’s the world we are living in. Let me break it down Barney style for you.
If I don’t go to work because I was protesting I will be fired. Hell if the wrong people get wind of it I will be fired (best case scenario, and we’ll just assume I’m not going to come back home to look for work because I’m protesting!)>>> If I am fired my family will run out of money (as in $0, 0 credit) in about 2 months>>> Me and my family starve/are unhoused>>>protest over.
We actually have a little money set aside for emergencies so we can last longer than the Majority of Americans 30-60% of which are literally living paycheck to paycheck.
We are not in a position to do fucking anything without massive organized movement, and thanks to our geography and 50 years of carefully orchestrated plans to destroy the American middle-class that’s a tall order.
Unless you’ve managed to destroy economic liberalism in your own country, it’s happening to you too. That train is going to hit you awfully soon.
I know, thanks to American capitalism and their almighty sacred petrodollar preventing any socialist revolution elsewhere. Look up CIA, School of the Americas, and USAID to know more.
Choo choo !
25% tariff on all your comments.
More tarriffs will surely help Americas recession.
It’s gonna be the best recession. Yuge! So many people are talking about it. They said it couldn’t be done. Now they’re saying trump is the only one who could have pulled this off. We’re gonna recess so far you wouldn’t believe it.
The more recession, the more bankrupt millionaires, the more billionaires will be able to gobble up, the higher the chances (now former) millionaires realise that they have more in common with burger flippers than with billionaires.
No way around accelerationist logic when the system is launching itself against a wall and the bureaucrats responsible for system inertia to work against that are running around like headless chicken.
Tariffs will increase until sanity improves. We (that is, the EU) certainly aren’t going to back down from a trade war.
We’re now talking big about 200% tariffs! Soon we’ll keep upping them to 400 and 1000% to make us feel bigly.
Truly the dumbest timeline.
While this may be true for a lot of Americans, plenty are essentially trapped. Our education system basically ensures that we don’t have the language skills or cultural understanding to get a decent job in most any other country. And the work style that has been drilled into us since birth isn’t welcome in most other countries either.
Many of us have kids born before this path was clearly the way things are going. I wouldn’t choose to have kids these days in the US unless I had like family outside the country so I knew I had an escape path.
Those that can leave, have been doing so. The rest are or feel trapped. They simply have too much to lose, and little chance of a decent life if they leave.
I for example can’t fight back against my government in the most effective ways because I have kids. And they deserve a chance to make their own decisions about polotics. But if I say damage something important, they won’t likely get much of a choice since I won’t be able to support them anymore. And because of our healthcare system, no job means extremely substandard healthcare. So like my autistic son would probably never be able to manage his own life. That is the delema many of us face.
Considering where things are going, isn’t protecting your kids a reason to not show up to work and show up to protest? What will you say to them if they ask, “Did you do anything to fight back and protect us?” The saddest part is reading/hearing stuff like this, because one day “I have kids to protect” becomes your reasoning to march towards certain death in a battlefield, why wait till it gets to that point? Reminds me of what Aaron Bushnell said, "Many of us like to ask ourselves, what would I do if I was alive during slavery? Or the Jim Crow South? Or apartheid? What would I do if my country was committing genocide? The answer is, you’re doing it. Right now.”
So let’s play this out you go to a protest instead of you job. Then you get fired from your job, so now you have no health insurance for yourself or your children. The job market is shit right now, since we just had an influx of former government employees, so good luck on finding a new job. Going to work is protecting your children. It’s how the hyper capitalistic society works. I hate it and want out so bad, but it just keeps getting worse. Most Americans retirement is in 401k which is a horrible idea basing your retirement income on the stock market. We are just fucked.
Then you get fired from your job,
Sounds like something to protest about.
so now you have no health insurance for yourself or your children.
Sounds like something to protest about.
The job market is shit right now, since we just had an influx of former government employees, so good luck on finding a new job
Sounds like something to protest about.
Going to work is protecting your children. It’s how the hyper capitalistic society works.
If you say so.
I hate it and want out so bad, but it just keeps getting worse.
Sounds like something to protest about, if you want out bad enough.
Most Americans retirement is in 401k which is a horrible idea basing your retirement income on the stock market.
Sounds like something to protest about.
How did workers get weekends?
And while they’re out there protesting for weeks, months, years, how are they going to feed their kids and keep them from freezing? Being unable to provide shelter and basic necessities to your children is a good way to lose them…
Lemme guess, they should protest about that? I guess now that they have nothing left to lose…
Jfc, you really don’t understand why someone might prioritize stability for their family over torching the lives of everyone they love? Try some empathy, man.
Perhaps after those week, months, years you might have the intelligence to realize it’s not working and to try something else, or adapt, or work harder. Did you ever think of that?
They would be dead or in prison. Did you ever think of that?
Perhaps we should ask the Hong Kong citizens how to protest, they seem pretty successful, oh wait…
You really think a protest is going to work? I wouldn’t be surprised if we read about the military shooting protesters in the near future. It almost happened in his first term
True, but it’s a start. Will only get worse if you wait longer though, if you wanted prevent this reality you could’ve done more. Can’t change that now, no use feeling guilty about it, can only decide what you do now for the future you want. That’s why i’m begging you Americans to do more.
You’re not begging. You’re browbeating in a really sanctimonious way. Maybe you should listen to people’s legitimate concerns and sympathize with them instead of telling them they are pieces of shit for not volunteering themselves enthusiastically to get shot for what is likely to be zero change. You’re acting like people are stupid assholes for not wanting their families to be evicted. You’re being a dick, and I am also certain you are lying about the extent of your own noble sacrifices.
Ukraine, back then under Putin’s rule, was shooting protesters in 2014. The people stood firm. A hundred people got shot, the other 42 million avoided slavery.
As another Canadian: I hate the US government, oligarchs, the loss of separation between church and state, and fascists. The US government has had terrible and negligent policies for much longer than the last 2 months. It’s just now there’s not even attempts to mask it and not nearly enough official resistance to it. America is being gutted beyond recognition as the same entity it was. I can empathize with what is, frankly, a rant from in4apenny even as I downvoted their post.
However I have many American friends I do NOT hate, and who do not hate me or covet my country. I do NOT agree with the “fuck everyone, you’re all a blight” position. I could write many arguments why, but the most important one is for many decades our countries have been stronger for being allies. If I want Canada to be the greatest nation it can be I have to recognize the contribution of a friendly USA that existed basically uninterrupted until two months ago. I 100% support the “elbows up, fight back hard” movement that is sweeping my nation, but with an eye for historical context of shared success. I hope for a return to that friendship when/if you folks manage to restore sanity. But that restoration is either going to be very messy or not happen at all, so we’ll see if the elbows ever get to come down again.
If I want Canada to be the greatest nation it can be I have to recognize the contribution of a friendly USA that existed basically uninterrupted until two months ago.
Like selling our oil 20% below the price for comparable oil on international markets, the continued Americanization of our media and culture, numerous instances of fighting over our arctic sovereignty, the erosion of generic drugs via patent extensions for the benefit of American pharma, pushing for the dismantling of one of our greatest technological accomplishments (Avro Arrow) to favor US products, and numerous cases of American companies using NAFTA to bully the government to allow the destruction of our environment because they aren’t that bad see Lone Pine Resources v. Canada or Ethyl Corporation v. Canada.
This has always been a shit relationship, it’s just more obvious now.
Most of Canada’s oil is heavy oil that doesn’t compete well with the lighter oil on international markets due to difficulty in transportation and refining. It is shipped to the US by train, and refined in the US which has costs associated with it. I couldn’t find a source saying that Canada would be 20% better off shipping to our other export targets like the EU. I’m willing to be taught a lesson by such sources.
I’m guessing you’re arguing that trade with the US makes drugs expensive. Canada protects drug prices as part of our single-payer system. We negotiate prices nationally and thus pay close to what other OECD nations pay. Re: patents - I could very well be missing something, but wouldn’t such patents exist regardless of trade agreements? If we could buy generic analogs of patented drugs then surely we can regardless of patents. If we can’t get generic analogs then how does cancelling trade agreements make patented drugs cheaper? If you are just saying that US big pharma sucks then I totally agree, but I don’t see how ending our agreements fixes that.
Americanization of media and culture isn’t just a Canadian problem that stems from our close relationship to the US. Things like radicalization and swings towards autocracy are happening in democracies (and other systems) all around the world regardless of level of direct US influence. I don’t think it’s fair at all to say that if we didn’t associate with the US that our society would be free from US-style problems.
I can see that NAFTA has caused instances of ignoring environmental damage. I will say that as far as I can tell by looking it up, the Lone Pine Resources v. Canada case was decided against the corporation, in which case the destruction you mention was not allowed. “On November 21, 2022, the NAFTA tribunal found that revocation of mining rights around the St. Lawrence river did not amount to an expropriation, considering that Claimant retained other mining rights. Tribunal majority also dismisses MST claim.” Unless I’m reading that wrong (definitely a possibility) in that case NAFTA officials actually stopped environmental damage. Plus let’s face it, provinces like Alberta and Ontario do not need NAFTA pressure at all to make large-scale environmentally harmful choices. I’m not convinced Canada would have refused to exploit resources if free trade wasn’t a thing.
As far as the relationship being shit, there’s a lot of experts who say it’s beneficial. If nothing else it has created TONS of jobs for Canadians and been a bedrock of our economy across many sectors.
For oil, one has to understand that the fixed costs for operating the network are substantial so there is a lot of ability for price making by the purchaser. The price of WTI serves as an effective cap for WCS.
The price of WTI is artificially low due to the 3/4th of a TRILLION of USD that has been pumped into oil subsidies.
https://www.eesi.org/papers/view/fact-sheet-proposals-to-reduce-fossil-fuel-subsidies-january-2024
For pharma, it’s not that we wouldn’t have patents- patents are important for investment. It’s the duration of them that is different due to US influence.
I will concede on the environmental impact, I’m just especially bitter about the 13 million dollar settlement for the priviledge to have gas that causes respiratory irritation.
USA doesn’t want friendly relations with you though.
Nah, you’re clearly not paying attention or wilfully ignoring whatever doesn’t fit your position. It’s not even all MAGA folks that want to break up our national relationship and basically no one outside MAGA wants to at all. Even staunch conservatives are calling this the dumbest trade war ever. I think there’s a lot of indication that most American citizens and especially many businesses want cooperation with Canada.
Yet Trump/Musk and their regime are doing things their way anyway. Now what? Wait for the democrats to step in? lol
You are right that Trump/Musk are destroying America. You are wrong that they are unopposed because they certainly are in Canada, in many other parts of the world, and yes, inside the US. Re: the stakes - the USA is not taking over Canada, period. They are causing a lot of economic harm, but telling Americans they’re trash people that need to fuck off en masse does absolutely nothing to repair that damage. No matter what Trump tries to tell you and everyone else, this trade war is not popular among almost anyone. So what we do is keep on telling Trump to go fuck himself along with all those people, just as our nation is doing now.
If Americans do disappear and stop having a relationship with Canada as you suggest a HUGE number of Canadians are going to suffer. The only way to prevent that is to fight back as much as necessary and then work to restore the engine that keeps all those Canadians and Americans afloat. Basically as Canadians we need to stay the course, punish the US for it’s betrayal, strengthen ties elsewhere, but then also be open to reconciliation. Being toxic and vengeful is not going to help citizens of either country.
This assumes that USA can be repaired. It’s entirely possible that their people have crossed the line of no return, and are no longer able to start behaving in a civilized manner on average before crashing spectarularly.
If you don’t trust in the US citizens’ ability to repair their country, there’s not much sense in trying to build a nice relationship with them. And I’m not saying USA cannot repair itself. Maybe it can. What I’m saying is that it is plausible that many people do not believe USA has what it takes.
I can definitely see what you’re saying, and you seem to be hoping for the best and planning for the worst. Which is reasonable. I don’t disagree with you but I’d add to the conversation:
- There is meaningful resistance even now, weeks into the Trump’s idiocy. Just today in the headlines on Lemmy we have judges blocking his orders, 20 states suing him for overreach, and citizens protesting. I think this resistance is bound to increase (in terms of size and urgency) as people start to see their family suffering/dying because of things like the social security payment collapse some experts are predicting.
- American businesses are pushing back to get tariffs delayed or stopped completely and that pressure is only going to increase as economic consequences roll in. Trump can lie all he wants about how great things will be but big money isn’t about to sit around while they become less big money.
- Regardless of whether they exist as the USA or something else, there’s about 345 million people south of our border in the US. Many of whom are economically tied to us and us to them. I’m not sure it’s realistic to aim for a zero relationship situation or even a minimal one. It’s a huge market, intertwined with ours, very close to our population centres and we’re going to fall into either a beneficial or hostile relationship with a nation 10x the size of ours. I think we need to strive hard at a good relationship while simultaneously demanding respect.
“It may be dangerous to be America’s enemy, but to be America’s friend is fatal.” ― Henry Kissinger
If you’re relying on Henry Kissinger for advice I have no common ground to advance the conversation with. Also, that quote addresses none of the points I’ve made about either sovereignty or economics, and isn’t the dunk you appear to think it is.
Edit: Just another thought that occurred to me while thinking about how that quote is wrong - it’s not even going to be fatal to have been America’s friend. Canada is going to survive Trump’s aggression, and will also survive the US relationship regardless of how things play out. Moreover, for decades the US-Canada alliance built up both countries immensely. I support Canada building stronger ties to more countries than just the US, but at this point in history far more good has come out of being America’s friend than harm has been done by Trump.
This American gets what you’re saying. I’m trying to figure out what I can do without ending up homeless.
So long as you get yours, right?
Staying housed is “getting yours”? Lmao, you’re delusional. And this is coming from a homeless person. I do not begrudge people who do what they can while maintaining shelter in the dead of winter. Frozen corpses can’t protest either, bud.
You’re acting like this is the Russian Revolution or something, stop making exaggerated excuses and focus on what’s happening in front of you. And as someone who has been homeless, you know as I know, you don’t have as much to lose as others so why are you making excuses?
Wtf, so we are supposed to be homeless with kids in tow? Since when is I get mine the simple fact of having a roof over my head?
Because it doesn’t guarantee a roof over theirs.
I understand the community-first perspective. I agree that we survive together or die together. But we also can’t pour from an empty cup. I can’t help others if I’m fighting to survive, forced to spend time hunting down food and water and a warm bed, which also takes time away from protesting and helping others.
Do you forsee yourself not fighting to survive later on then?
If American society as a whole devolves so much that I and everyone else are all fighting to survive together because we are all homeless, then society as a whole will look a lot different, structurally. I can’t speak to how resistance will look, in that case, because I don’t know what it will consist of. I imagine that we will have much better community support systems in place, since more will be needing them to survive.
First comes fodder, then morals. When will US libs understand that. How does it feel there, up on your high horse, telling the pedestrians to stop wearing leather boots they should be vegans?
Try calling for solidarity instead of attacking people for wanting what’s due to every human by sole virtue of being human. Food, shelter, those things aren’t wishes of someone trying to deny the same to others.
Try calling for solidarity
Like you do?
Yes. Like I did by telling you to do that instead of preaching from the pulpit, you’re starting to get it.
Dude, straight up fuck you. The moment you voluntarily unhouse yourself for others you can open your mouth again and rejoin the adults in the conversation.
I did, from 2011-2015. I went on the road to protest, gave up everything, because I believe in something more important than myself.
Translation: I was a mooching dirtbag for four years and called it protesting.
Projection, much?
How did you pay for your gas on the road? How did you keep yourself fed? How did you keep from freezing to death? What were you protesting? How did it turn out? Tell us more.
Considering the warm reception of this thread, I don’t feel anyone here is worth wasting that time on. I’m writing a book about my adventures you can pirate it when it comes out.
You’ve been wasting a lot of time here already. A little more won’t hurt. Come on, big guy. Tell us all how it’s done.
Dude, I’ve been working on this at a local level, and being homeless in the US might as well be a fucking death sentence. It paints a target on you at almost every level of society and it’s becoming increasingly impossible to escape. This is almost like shitting on someone for not wanting to get shot or get their family tortured.
These people did it - https://tribunemag.co.uk/2023/03/how-workers-won-the-weekend
All you’re telling me is you’re either too coward or don’t believe in a better future enough.
Here’s a bonus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nat_Turner’s_Rebellion – If only these people thought like you, I wonder where we’d be.
You want to fight for freedom but without any risk? You can’t have your cake and eat it too.
EDIT - What about these people? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/oct/04/gaza-strip-protesters-received-bullet-wounds-to-ankles-medics-report Surely they have targets painted on their backs but protest anyway, and they have it much worse than Americans. Americans are cowards.
Look, I get that you’re trying to rabble rouse. I think there’s a lot of folks right now that are holding their breath to see if Trump is going to get distracted by some new stupid bullshit like he normally does.
The world has been holding their breaths for decades, when will you Americans stop drowning us all? You you you all you, fucking Americans amiright? You have it soooo bad awwwwww, hang on everybody keep waiting for things to get worse, Americans aren’t coming up for air yet! No, i’m not rabble rousing, i’m pissed off at your American baby excuses, I swear I know 10 year olds that have more sense of accountability or responsibility.
idk what to tell you, my guy. The ruling class aggressively shit its pants when these labor wins were piling up, and we’ve had non-stop red scares, counter-intelligence ops, and right-wing propaganda ever since. What you’re proposing, that everyone just get up and start the next great revolution because Trump is saying stuff, is a fairy tale; it’s about as likely as my potted plant turning into an alligator. I’m very confident shit’s going to fall apart quick if Trump does actually try to start a war with Canada, but until then, I don’t think that it feels real enough to most folks to chance getting thrown in a private prison or turned into a predator drone video. When things destabilize, that’s where there will be opportunities, but the only opportunities right now is getting smoked by the cops, getting scooped by the glowies, or doing something completely ineffectual and getting your teeth knocked in by the cops anyway.
Don’t be a twat.
“Insults are the last refuge of a fool.”
“Being a twat is the last refuge of a twat.”
Ok.
Well, if push came to shove, I’d stand with you anyway.
The common folk of the world need to find solidarity. Because this is gonna spread…
Amen comrad. The moment protests start happening outside millionaires and billionaires mansions and gated communities is when I wheel my disabled Graves diseased ass back out to protests again. The numbers are on our side.
As Jim Morrison said, “They got the guns, but we got the numbers.”
It is beyond shameful what my government is doing, though; I don’t fault you for the stance against all Americans. The worst part for me? I’ve seen this coming since I was in high school (over two decades ago). My entire adult life it’s been in the back of my mind. And here we are.
There’s no easy path forward. That’s for sure.
Ranting on Lemmy definitely helps, I’m so proud of you.
So do your witty remarks on Lemmy, that’ll really show the billionaires! Now go back to work, obedient American.
Replying to a dude that is sitting on the toilet really helps as well, what a champ!
When my kids ask me “What did you do to help?” I’ll have a long list of real-world attempts for them spanning over 14 years. I can at least comfortably say that I’ve tried. What will you say to your kids?
I hope your claimed real-world efforts are more meaningful than what I’m seeing from you in this post, because blanket insults posted online do not count. I get that you’re disgusted and angry, but you are not being constructive and there are better ways to tell people you are angry. If you are sick of being constructive and/or acknowledging the benefits of Canada-USA friendship I understand, but you should probably take a break from news/social media.
I am another Canadian btw.
I replied to you twice already, son.
Oh haha toilet jokes are more important, got it.
Troll
Dude has been ranting for HOURS lmao
You’ve been reading for hours too. Please enlighten us and keep making toilet jokes to distract from going out to protests. I swear this is r/worldnews all over again.
Comical to mention ‘going out to protest’ when you’ve been chronically raging on lemmy all day. I’m sure the 40 people that read your novel have been impacted so much and it changed their lives. Keep it up my boy!
I’m disabled, after 14 years of activism, grassroots organizing, and protesting. Been arrested many times sacrificing my safety and liberty for human rights, taken beatings by fascists and beatings by cops. What’s your excuse, toiletboy?
TIL activism is really just a dick-waving competition.
Newton’s Flaming Laser Sword
(philosophy) A philosophical razor which states that what cannot be settled by experiment is not worth debating.Occams Razer can suck it compared to Newtons Flaming Laser Sword.
No that’s occam’s razor you are thinking of. Occams razEr states that sometimes the simplest solution is to burn the village and sow the fields with salt.
Just like the American foreign policy that Americans voted for.
I get the feeling that your entire identity is defined by opposition to America…
Who are you, again?
A human being. Why would I be anything less?
Nah, I’m good thanks.
How about you come down and burn the WH again?
I’d rather the Americans did it rather than making others do their work for them as usual.
That was the brits. People always say it was Canada, but it wasn’t. The guys in charge of that raid were in Canada for less then a year, and died later on in the same year they burned the WH - the leaders had spent most of their time on campaigns in EU / northern africa. The troops were all trained in the uk. Canada wasn’t even a ‘country’ for decades after that event – there’s no way we had our own trained army/generals involved. Hell, the (great?) granddaughter of one of the two generals who did it, is Olivia Wilde – from her scottish roots (Cockburn). So not even the guys kids/descendants were Canadian – they became US people in Hollywood.
Lotta Canadians like to take credit for it though, but realistically it wasn’t us.
I’d say that you Canadians do deserve some credit. Yes, it was the Brit’s regulars that did the burning of government buildings (no longer distracted by that Napoleon fellow, they were able to use their veteran forces, rather than people from the W bench). However, Canadian militia made it possible by guarding the North.
Excuseme but are you trying to give ME a lesson in history?
Because if so, please do, I love history stuff.
If you feel that strongly, how come you only comment in posts about the US?
What does that have to do with Americans not taking enough action? I’m not an American.
I know you’re not American. But hot damn you sure are obsessed over us.
Why don’t you spend some time in posts about your own country for a few minutes?
Because my country isn’t facing a constitutional crisis of globally impactful magnitudes, in fact, American ineptitude is affecting our country. But clearly you Americans are quick to blame people from other countries for your own problems.
Why don’t you spend some time gathering a crowd outside billionaires mansions or gated communities?
Who did i blame for our problems that’s in another country?
EDIT - I also see you hunting me down in other threads, very hinged of you.
No, that’s calling you out for trolling US posts 24/7. That has nothing to do with blaming my counties problems on anyone else.
Your reply makes no sense, but trolls gonna troll I guess.
“Living next to you is in some ways like sleeping with an elephant. No matter how friendly and even-tempered is the beast, if I can call it that, one is affected by every twitch and grunt.”
Imagine criticizing the person forced into bed with the elephant for speaking up when the elephant behaves poorly.
It’s the American mindset, they hide behind their excuses like a domestic abuser.
He’s a troll for sure
amen
Re: Retorts to this in this thread-
But there is a peculiar behavior among most Caucasians. As soon as I become critical of Europe and its impact on other cultures, they become defensive. They begin to defend themselves. But I am not attacking them personally; I’m attacking Europe. In personalizing my observations on Europe they are personalizing European culture, identifying themselves with it. By defending themselves in this context, they are ultimately defending the death culture. This is a confusion which must be overcome, and it must be overcome in a hurry. None of us has energy to waste in such false struggles.
Caucasians have a more positive vision to offer humanity than European culture. I believe this. But in order to attain this vision it is necessary for Caucasians to step outside European culture — alongside the rest of humanity — to see Europe for what it is and what it does.
note: “Europe” here refers to imported European culture in America
note: “Europe” here refers to imported European culture in America
Yeah I was already wondering it’s not like actual Europeans get defensive about our influence. There’s nothing European about WASP(ish) culture, they’re about as European as chuds with Greek statute avatars are Greek: It’s a fetish, a signifier to dangle around in front of one set of people to consider themselves superior, and then hide when they’re facing the Old Continent proper, then it’s “Europoor”, “we pay for your healthcare”, whatnot. It’s a culture which refuses to recognise itself, and thus is forced to define itself in opposition to others, for doing otherwise would imply acknowledging that the cultural highlight of the year, what everyone is talking about for days and weeks on end, what unifies them as a people, are the ads during superbowl. When pressed, then, you point their mind, deliberately or not, to address the question “are you actually European”, and of course they’ll get defensive you’re attacking the charade surrounding the core of their identity. If I were pressed to describe that kind of culture in a single sentence I would choose a single word: Alienation.
I highly reccomend this series if you want to know how this came to be in recent centuries:
https://hellonearth.chapotraphouse.com/views/podcast/
I do not listen to these folks regularly, but they did a great job of this. It is a modernised retelling of a famous book from the early 1900s.
Yeah that was the time where maliciously maligning creeds was made a criminal offence, to stop Lutheran and Catholic preachers alike from inciting people, and religious freedom codified. Fast forward 400 years and Americans are telling us that we’re limiting free speech with that kind of thing while basing their identity on the theocracies of New England which they founded because England wouldn’t let them oppress people at home.
We did not send our best, and it hasn’t gone uphill since. The US slept through the whole Age of Enlightenment. There’s some trappings, sure, and their revolution certainly quoted it a lot, but try to find a trace of Kant anywhere in the US. Just consider the US’s insistence on a punitive criminal system (instead of rehabilitatory) in the light of the Categorical Imperative. Who, in any sensible state of mind, would consider inflicting suffering to be a desirable universal law.
