Electric cars are a very bad choice as an apocalyptic vehicle because they require a working power grid. If you have a reliable electrical connection, its not the apocalypse.
A gas or diesel car or truck is a better choice because the fuel is a liquid. You can store, stockpile, and siphon it. The same cannot be done with electricity.
But the value of a car is limited. You can escape a local crisis. But for anything widespread, there would be little benefit to high speed travel. Anywhere you go will still be the apocalypse.
Build community. Work together with others locally. That’s how humans have survived throughout most of history and its a much better survival strategy than a mad max cosplay.
A small ioniq 6 requires 6 solar panels dedicated to the car. And that assumes charging through the day. Want to charge at night? Now you need a decent battery.
F-150? Now you need 12 panels. And a bigger battery. Plus your home energy needs, throw on a few more panels for that.
I’m frustrated by generic appeal to solar without consideration for the realities of same.
A small ioniq 6 requires 6 solar panels dedicated to the car. And that assumes charging through the day. Want to charge at night? Now you need a decent battery.
F-150? Now you need 12 panels. And a bigger battery. Plus your home energy needs, throw on a few more panels for that.
And how much investment do you need in fossil fuel to refuel your car? In the event of a societal breakdown, gas will not be brought to you, or we could count on electric lines also working.
6-12 solar panels are still cheaper and more versatile than an oil well and refinery combo.
in the event of societal breakdown it’s gonna be far easier to siphon some gas tanks than to rig up an EV with a scavenged solar power setup, a working inverter, and sufficient battery bank. if it were me i’d start with the former and try and work towards the latter before all the gas goes stale. all that said cybertruck would be at the very bottom of the list, i’d rather use literally anything else in any and all scenarios.
in the event of societal breakdown it’s gonna be far easier to siphon some gas tanks
Yeah, but those are finite and already in the possession of other people, and there are tons of gas guzzlers consuming it at all times. How long do you think those tanks will last? The sun won’t go out.
But we agree, cybertruck is to big, heavy, not mobile enough and too high maintenance for this. E-bikes all the way to be honest for personal transport, e-kei trucks to haul cargo.
i guess i was a bit unclear. my strat would be to leverage the greater availability of gas and ICE vehicles to get by in the short term until i could scavenge enough gear to power an EV. because yeah you’re totally right, eventually all the gas will get burned or go bad but the sun ain’t going nowhere.
I think it’s just differing cultural expectations, here every second house has some panels but I am not sure I could get gas if the power went out because all the stations are unmanned. Also, most cars here seem to be electric.
Gasoline sitting in a tank goes bad in 6 months. Even with a stabilizer you’re only looking at 2 years before degradation is an issue. I’d think an EV with solar would last longer even with battery degradation to worry about.
yeah but it’s more available, so leverage the availability of gasoline and combustion-powered vehicles to get by and scavenge in the short term, until you have a usable EV + solar charger set up for the long term. i wouldn’t go straight for the EV right off because without a charging setup ready you’re hosed as soon as its battery loses charge but you’re right, an EV be useful for far longer if the grid disappeared.
This is a weird argument considering that gas and Diesel absolutely go bad over time, and unlike electricity you can’t exactly make more of them.
I mean you can set up solar panels, a water wheel, or Wind Turbine for off grid generation. And thus you can still charge an EV and many other things. With smaller or moderate solar setups it’s probably not going to charge super fast but you could still charge it.
Compare that to gas and Diesel. It may seem better since you just pour it in the tank and it works without hours or days of charging. But eventually it’s going to go bad, and it’s going to start going bad everywhere in your own stockpile, in the gas stations and more isn’t being drilled and refined.
Diesels are slightly better than gasoline engines since you can convert them to run them off different oils, there really isn’t anything else you can run a gasoline engine off. But those are also finite, and even though some of them you can make yourself it’s actually more work to produce enough vegetable oil to fuel a diesel engine then it is to use solar or wind to charge a battery. Even at abysmally slow speeds.
And actually ironically Diesel and gasoline have these same issues even outside of apocalyptic settings. If there was an economic crisis (or just some idiot in power) which stopped drilling and refining from happening then Diesel and gas will run out and those Diesel and gasoline cars are going to do nobody any good.
Also, if you are really concerned, but think youll have something like diesel available, EVs are still better as not only are they more flexible, but a pretty low cost multi-fuel generator could charge it.
Exactly, EVs just make more sense since they are more versatile in how you can charge them, you can charge them using a Gas generator (using that stockpile of Gasoline) or with a Solar setup if you’re in it for the long term. A gas or Diesel car can only run on Gas and is basically useless once all the gas runs out or goes bad, and unlike electricity it’s basically impossible to make Gasoline or Diesel yourself.
Golf cart, bike pedals and an alternator. Quiet easy to fix, basically every car uses a battery so you can add or remove range as needed. They aren’t fast but with knobbies they’ll get over most stuff eventually.
You can store gas longer than that. Most 4cycles won’t bat an eye unless that gas was stored in it’s fuel system north of the tank. I’m 1.5yr into a 5gal tank that’s only been “refueled” by syphoning between winter and summer equipment.
In the present day, there are plenty of people living “off grid” powering their homes and EVs.
Without a power grid, electricity can still be generated with solar panels or by spinning a turbine (wind, hydro, etc)
Electricity can be stored in batteries that will last years. With the right skills, it is also technically possible to DIY a lead acid battery.
I’d argue that getting places quickly is a substantial advantage in survival. Travelling is dangerous, people used to die all the time on multi-day journeys. Being able to travel quickly expands that range of available resources, and a vehicle provides the means to move those resources.
Depends how far into the apocalypse we are. Has enough time passed that some people have organized to clear the roads (especially tunnels and other difficult passes) of stalled vehicles? If not the car isn’t going to be very useful whereas you could carry a bike and stow it reasonably quickly if you hear a sketchy group of travelers down the way.
If you’re the group clearing the roads you definitely want some powered equipment.
Tbh I don’t think any kind of normal car is going to be a good “apocalypse vehicle”. EVs might rely on electrical infrastructure, but gas vehicles ultimately rely on fuel refining and extraction infrastructure, making fueling them in the long run more difficult than an EV (since electricity isn’t really that difficult to make, it might be unreasonable for a normal person unless they’re some kind of hobbyist electrician and carpenter with a river next door or something, but a whole community could probably cobble together a small amount of generation capacity with enough motivation). Plus, any car made today is going to rely on complex components like computers, and most will require maintained paved roads.
What you honestly want, I would think, would be like a bicycle or something, maybe a robust cargo bike if possible, and maybe with the tires swapped for some that handle dirt better. Or if it must be something motorized
The ideal one would probably be an EV that can handle off-roading, since you can charge an EV with Solar or a Generator, but like you said Gas infrastructure isn’t something that can be relied on if the world is ending, or the economy is shot (takes much less to derail the petroleum industry than the apocalypse, anyone who was alive in America in the 70s can attest to that).
I like what you said though about a bike and that probably would be the go to thing for most applications. Since even though you can charge an EV from solar or Generator (I’m assuming at Level 1 because Level 2 is extremely intense) it’ll take a long time and be a lot of effort. So the EV would probably only be for things you can’t do with a Bike like moving things that are too heavy or bulky to carry in a cargo bike.
The thing is, these people love to think about their apocalypse fantasies where they vroom away from a pack of zombies in their car while shooting them from the window, rather than making a walled village and farming and breeding your neighbors backyard chickens for eggs.
An ev car would be far better choice… just tow a trailer with solar panels. Once fuel reserves dries up, you’re boned unless you managed to modifey the engine to run on woodgas.
Who’s making all this gas? Electricity can be generated by renewable sources, you don’t need a working power grid. Hell, it can also be generated by gas, if you have a generator.
Batteries don’t last forever, no, but they last a lot longer than whatever small amount of gas is local to you.
I think people have this unchallenged fantasy that they can stockpile Gas and it’ll just last forever but it won’t. Gasoline (yes Diesel too) is volatile and goes bad over time as the volatiles evaoprate, or as it oxidizes. Batteries if well taken care of can last for years, decades even. They are more sustainable long term than Gasoline is and ever will be.
It’s easier to generate electricity during a zombie apocalypse than to pump up oil and refine it into gasoline. Let alone if you have to actually prospect for oil and drill an oil well.
So many ways to easily create and store energy using an alternator and some lead batteries. You can make a windmill, use a stream and a watermill, basically anything you can make rotate can be used as an energy source.
i’m on a solar power setup right now and just clouds don’t make a huge difference. if it’s like raining or storming, yeah, but just overcast? not really much of an issue.
Maybe build partnerships with some key communities abroad too so if something goes down in one place you can shift to an unaffected area where you already know and trust people. International solidarity prepping.
Electric cars are a very bad choice as an apocalyptic vehicle because they require a working power grid. If you have a reliable electrical connection, its not the apocalypse.
A gas or diesel car or truck is a better choice because the fuel is a liquid. You can store, stockpile, and siphon it. The same cannot be done with electricity.
But the value of a car is limited. You can escape a local crisis. But for anything widespread, there would be little benefit to high speed travel. Anywhere you go will still be the apocalypse.
Build community. Work together with others locally. That’s how humans have survived throughout most of history and its a much better survival strategy than a mad max cosplay.
They require some solar panels. Distributing fossils does require infrastructure though.
That said, the best vehicle for the apocalypse is a bicycle.
‘some’
Can’t tell if you are being wilfully obtuse. Look at the math: https://www.cnet.com/home/energy-and-utilities/calculate-how-many-solar-panels-you-need-to-charge-your-ev/
A small ioniq 6 requires 6 solar panels dedicated to the car. And that assumes charging through the day. Want to charge at night? Now you need a decent battery.
F-150? Now you need 12 panels. And a bigger battery. Plus your home energy needs, throw on a few more panels for that.
I’m frustrated by generic appeal to solar without consideration for the realities of same.
Though I completely agree with your bike comment.
And how much investment do you need in fossil fuel to refuel your car? In the event of a societal breakdown, gas will not be brought to you, or we could count on electric lines also working.
6-12 solar panels are still cheaper and more versatile than an oil well and refinery combo.
in the event of societal breakdown it’s gonna be far easier to siphon some gas tanks than to rig up an EV with a scavenged solar power setup, a working inverter, and sufficient battery bank. if it were me i’d start with the former and try and work towards the latter before all the gas goes stale. all that said cybertruck would be at the very bottom of the list, i’d rather use literally anything else in any and all scenarios.
Yeah, but those are finite and already in the possession of other people, and there are tons of gas guzzlers consuming it at all times. How long do you think those tanks will last? The sun won’t go out.
But we agree, cybertruck is to big, heavy, not mobile enough and too high maintenance for this. E-bikes all the way to be honest for personal transport, e-kei trucks to haul cargo.
i guess i was a bit unclear. my strat would be to leverage the greater availability of gas and ICE vehicles to get by in the short term until i could scavenge enough gear to power an EV. because yeah you’re totally right, eventually all the gas will get burned or go bad but the sun ain’t going nowhere.
Yeah that makes total sense.
I think it’s just differing cultural expectations, here every second house has some panels but I am not sure I could get gas if the power went out because all the stations are unmanned. Also, most cars here seem to be electric.
yeah i’m in the rural US, there’s panels and EVs here and there but the combustion engine is still king for now
Gasoline sitting in a tank goes bad in 6 months. Even with a stabilizer you’re only looking at 2 years before degradation is an issue. I’d think an EV with solar would last longer even with battery degradation to worry about.
yeah but it’s more available, so leverage the availability of gasoline and combustion-powered vehicles to get by and scavenge in the short term, until you have a usable EV + solar charger set up for the long term. i wouldn’t go straight for the EV right off because without a charging setup ready you’re hosed as soon as its battery loses charge but you’re right, an EV be useful for far longer if the grid disappeared.
This is a weird argument considering that gas and Diesel absolutely go bad over time, and unlike electricity you can’t exactly make more of them.
I mean you can set up solar panels, a water wheel, or Wind Turbine for off grid generation. And thus you can still charge an EV and many other things. With smaller or moderate solar setups it’s probably not going to charge super fast but you could still charge it.
Compare that to gas and Diesel. It may seem better since you just pour it in the tank and it works without hours or days of charging. But eventually it’s going to go bad, and it’s going to start going bad everywhere in your own stockpile, in the gas stations and more isn’t being drilled and refined.
Diesels are slightly better than gasoline engines since you can convert them to run them off different oils, there really isn’t anything else you can run a gasoline engine off. But those are also finite, and even though some of them you can make yourself it’s actually more work to produce enough vegetable oil to fuel a diesel engine then it is to use solar or wind to charge a battery. Even at abysmally slow speeds.
And actually ironically Diesel and gasoline have these same issues even outside of apocalyptic settings. If there was an economic crisis (or just some idiot in power) which stopped drilling and refining from happening then Diesel and gas will run out and those Diesel and gasoline cars are going to do nobody any good.
Also, if you are really concerned, but think youll have something like diesel available, EVs are still better as not only are they more flexible, but a pretty low cost multi-fuel generator could charge it.
Exactly, EVs just make more sense since they are more versatile in how you can charge them, you can charge them using a Gas generator (using that stockpile of Gasoline) or with a Solar setup if you’re in it for the long term. A gas or Diesel car can only run on Gas and is basically useless once all the gas runs out or goes bad, and unlike electricity it’s basically impossible to make Gasoline or Diesel yourself.
The real MVP of vehicles in the zombie apocalypse (and probably most other apocalypses) is a bike…
Fully agree on building community to avoid even getting into that position though.
B-But muh rugged individualishm!
Yeah you can ruggedly repair a bicycle easily
Golf cart, bike pedals and an alternator. Quiet easy to fix, basically every car uses a battery so you can add or remove range as needed. They aren’t fast but with knobbies they’ll get over most stuff eventually.
Depends on the style of zombie. Slow dumb ones, sure. Fast predator-like ones, you’re screwed.
You can only store gasoline for half a year. Electricity can be generated of grid if you have solar and the required alternators/converters.
Bikes are still the best for such situations.
You can store gas longer than that. Most 4cycles won’t bat an eye unless that gas was stored in it’s fuel system north of the tank. I’m 1.5yr into a 5gal tank that’s only been “refueled” by syphoning between winter and summer equipment.
Gasoline and diesel expire in less than a year.
In the present day, there are plenty of people living “off grid” powering their homes and EVs.
Without a power grid, electricity can still be generated with solar panels or by spinning a turbine (wind, hydro, etc)
Electricity can be stored in batteries that will last years. With the right skills, it is also technically possible to DIY a lead acid battery.
I’d argue that getting places quickly is a substantial advantage in survival. Travelling is dangerous, people used to die all the time on multi-day journeys. Being able to travel quickly expands that range of available resources, and a vehicle provides the means to move those resources.
Depends how far into the apocalypse we are. Has enough time passed that some people have organized to clear the roads (especially tunnels and other difficult passes) of stalled vehicles? If not the car isn’t going to be very useful whereas you could carry a bike and stow it reasonably quickly if you hear a sketchy group of travelers down the way.
If you’re the group clearing the roads you definitely want some powered equipment.
Tbh I don’t think any kind of normal car is going to be a good “apocalypse vehicle”. EVs might rely on electrical infrastructure, but gas vehicles ultimately rely on fuel refining and extraction infrastructure, making fueling them in the long run more difficult than an EV (since electricity isn’t really that difficult to make, it might be unreasonable for a normal person unless they’re some kind of hobbyist electrician and carpenter with a river next door or something, but a whole community could probably cobble together a small amount of generation capacity with enough motivation). Plus, any car made today is going to rely on complex components like computers, and most will require maintained paved roads.
What you honestly want, I would think, would be like a bicycle or something, maybe a robust cargo bike if possible, and maybe with the tires swapped for some that handle dirt better. Or if it must be something motorized
The ideal one would probably be an EV that can handle off-roading, since you can charge an EV with Solar or a Generator, but like you said Gas infrastructure isn’t something that can be relied on if the world is ending, or the economy is shot (takes much less to derail the petroleum industry than the apocalypse, anyone who was alive in America in the 70s can attest to that).
I like what you said though about a bike and that probably would be the go to thing for most applications. Since even though you can charge an EV from solar or Generator (I’m assuming at Level 1 because Level 2 is extremely intense) it’ll take a long time and be a lot of effort. So the EV would probably only be for things you can’t do with a Bike like moving things that are too heavy or bulky to carry in a cargo bike.
The thing is, these people love to think about their apocalypse fantasies where they vroom away from a pack of zombies in their car while shooting them from the window, rather than making a walled village and farming and breeding your neighbors backyard chickens for eggs.
An ev car would be far better choice… just tow a trailer with solar panels. Once fuel reserves dries up, you’re boned unless you managed to modifey the engine to run on woodgas.
i would say a car with an engine capable of running on wood gas would be good as wood only requires a tree and an axe to obtain
In ww2 people converted their cars
yep, kinda proves the point that in times of crisis it is an useful thing
Who’s making all this gas? Electricity can be generated by renewable sources, you don’t need a working power grid. Hell, it can also be generated by gas, if you have a generator.
Batteries don’t last forever, no, but they last a lot longer than whatever small amount of gas is local to you.
I think people have this unchallenged fantasy that they can stockpile Gas and it’ll just last forever but it won’t. Gasoline (yes Diesel too) is volatile and goes bad over time as the volatiles evaoprate, or as it oxidizes. Batteries if well taken care of can last for years, decades even. They are more sustainable long term than Gasoline is and ever will be.
It’s easier to generate electricity during a zombie apocalypse than to pump up oil and refine it into gasoline. Let alone if you have to actually prospect for oil and drill an oil well.
So many ways to easily create and store energy using an alternator and some lead batteries. You can make a windmill, use a stream and a watermill, basically anything you can make rotate can be used as an energy source.
If solar panels were insanely more efficient imagine a EV that’s self powered. Battery would only be needed at night and cloudy days.
i’m on a solar power setup right now and just clouds don’t make a huge difference. if it’s like raining or storming, yeah, but just overcast? not really much of an issue.
Maybe build partnerships with some key communities abroad too so if something goes down in one place you can shift to an unaffected area where you already know and trust people. International solidarity prepping.
Petrol has a shelf life of up to 6 months and diesel up to 12 months if properly stored, so ev is much better overall.
Just put a generator in your trunk and use fuel for as long as it hasn’t gone bad.