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There’s a guy on our dog walking route that put up several Trump flags last year. My wife and I actually wound up having an interaction with him because he was spying on us through his cameras and got mad that we referred to the flags as embarrassing and said that Trumpism was a cult.
By mid-April, he’d pulled down all the flagpoles and didn’t even take the flags off them, just laid the poles with flags wrapped around them in the dirt by his driveway.
In May I actually talked with him. Initially I had no intention of trying to be nice to him - he just had done something sort of shitty a few days before (encouraging his dog to bark at our dogs). I was going to be like “Look, if you wanna call me gay slurs over your ring camera, that’s fine, but don’t encourage your dog to be hostile to mine.”
But somehow he tied his dog to military service, and while I was fully prepared to connect the lack of a veteran license plate to his statement to call him a liar and a Reddit ninja, he fielded the license plate question and said that he’d suffered a TBI that resulted in an appreciable percentage of brain dying, and that made him unable to be rational when he felt any sort of threat or insult. So he didn’t use the military plates, because he’d had negative experiences with motorists while using them.
I don’t know if I believe that - it seems dumb on the part of the other motorists. But I’m not willing to keep pressing for the sake of picking a fight. I’ll throw a barb, but not over-extend myself. It’s just not worth it.
So I listened, and we chatted - for like an hour and a half. My wife left after a few minutes with the dogs. We talked about politics, the world, our community, and how fucked everything is. He supported Trump because of the 2016 (Obama) economy. He believes in women’s rights. He is conservative, anti-immigrant, and believes in stronger policing. I told him I believe in increased social support, so folks like him can get out of the VA benefits trap. I told him I think the way to stronger communities is through stronger schools and increased civic engagement - more pride, less punishment. He even asked if we’d be willing to help train his dog better, because he notices that ours don’t bark at other dogs, and don’t pull on their leads. I told him I’d have to think about it, and ask my wife, since she’s the one who really had the patience to get our dogs where they are.We parted - not as friends - but certainly not as enemies. Just - neighbors with a better understanding of each other.
Boss, as a vet, I also don’t have vet plates. In my case, It continues to feel like pulling military benefits when I did the bare minimum as a job when the market was shit. I don’t like pulling veteran’s discounts at restaurants/stores/etc. either.
That’s fair. To be honest, the thing that sort of put me back on my heels about him was learning about the TBI - that explained his pattern of behavior. However, I can definitely see the point about not wanting the recognition via the license plate, or the reminders of harder times.
After months of a mostly one-way back and forth, I really just was looking to poke back at him and was grasping at low-hanging fruit in the moment. Kinda glad I saw an alternative option once it opened up.
If they’re the kind of boit lickers that would go down on tou for it, take what you can.
That and “Just take it! You’ve already earned it” don’t really help the scummy feeling I get when applying it.
Not about earned. If they’re thevkind of boot lickers who want to go down on you for desperate youthful dabbling with imperialism, i would really rather they not have it.
Tithe the savings to amnesty international or something, if you feel guilty. It’s not about you having. Not that im opposed; you seem fine.
Champion! What a great story
Possibly even “Best of Lemmy” material. This story took me for an emotional ride, and the ending provided water to the wilting sprig that’s left of my hope.
ETA I just decided to go for it. Let’s see what Lemmy decides.
My boyfriend keeps saying that America needs a strong leader who can unite the people across the political divide like Lincoln did. That Trump was a divider for all people and he spreads divisiveness and hate whereever he goes and that most of the divisiveness we have today is because of Trump. He took smaller issues and poured gasoline on them and now we are here.
He says the way out of this nightmare is not a violent revolution, but a leader who can unite the people and bring focus back to building a society that is better for all.
He doesn’t want Americans to lose their humanity because of one insane asshole. I am sometimes in awe of his cold head and warm heart. I try to remind myself of his words whenever I hear the next new retarded thing Trump has done overseas and how it’s gonna affect not just America but the rest of us too. I go a bit feral sometimes, ngl.
strong leader
So…
doesnt want americans to lose their humanity
Little late on that
not a violent revolution
Do you know the longest I’ve gone in the past week without hearing a flashbang in the distance? Thats because people are asking them to stop. I dont think it’s working.
cold head warm heart
Oh honey…
A strong leader who can unite across the political divide. Reading full sentences matters. You can cherry pick any part of any sentence and twist it into whatever you want if your attitude is to not actually engage with a comment, but just to smugly point and roll your eyes at things.
For what it is worth, I personally have a hard time seeing how things won’t get violent in the end, but I just wanted to share my awe of my boyfriend’s ability to hold on to these values even when things are burning. I think it is admirable because I’m not like that myself.
And please stop yourself with your “oh honey”. What a belittling way to engage with someone.
strong leader
The rest of the sentence really doesn’t matter. What you want him to do is like the ‘but’ in ‘I’m not racist but’. Great man theory jacking off authoritarian models always leads the same place, and that place is fiume.
you’re a thoroughly unpleasant condescending bucket of ass
Well yes, but in my defense, only an idiot would look up right now.
hold onto these values
I’m not sure the values he holds are the same ones you’re reading. I dont have ejough data ro say itherwise for sure, but be careful about that. I’ve seen a lot of straight girls accept some fucked up shit and ruin their god damn lives because the fields were so barren, and this gives me ‘terrible men’ shivers.
The problem is the flock of Trump-wannabes.
Trump not only poured gasoline and lit the match, but he proved that outrage politics work. He proved that it’s ok to be blatantly dishonest, immoral, and corrupt, and there were no consequences. He proved you can ignore the Constitution and legal restrictions.
And others in his party have copied that approach, and also found it working (admittedly to a smaller extent). I don’t see this approach going away
It works, yes and there probably always will be people out there who fall for it, but somethings gotta give eventually. We managed to build societies that were comparatively more stable than this and we can do it again. We have been through this shit thousands of times as a species.
My boyfriend keeps saying that America needs a strong leader who can unite the people across the political divide like Lincoln did.
I think your boyfriend needs to read a history book… Two of the most famous events of Lincoln’s presidency are the only Civil War in the US has ever had, and him getting shot in the back of the head by the opposition.
Not saying either of those are Lincoln’s fault necessarily…
You may want to ask yourself why Lincoln was shot and what the civil war was about and who started it and why? You may want to look into what Lincolns actions were throughout his presidency.
I can give you a hint: he was trying to unify people across political divides and disagreements and he is largely known for being the president who ended slavery and unified the USA. Whenever I have heard about Lincoln, that is what I have heard way before his assassination and the civil war and I have never stepped foot in America.
To boil Lincoln down to only being known for the civil war and his own assassination at best shows bad faith and at worst a terrible lack of understanding of your own history, in case you are an American yourself.
Two of the most famous events
Relevant text quoted.
Yes I am an American. An American who’s great great grandfather marched his ass from Indiana down to the bottom of Georgia. In the late 1860s. An American who spent a week each summer following that path with his grandfather and visiting battle sites.
My argument was not that Lincoln didn’t try to keep the country together. I was just pointing out the irony of calling for a strong leader to bring the country together, and then picking the one president who was in charge when the country split and went to war. It wasn’t Lincoln reaching across the aisle that kept the country together. It was Sherman chasing the confederates to the ocean and burning everything behind him. They were stuck with two options, and the confederates picked the one that didn’t involve swimming for the rest of their lives.
Okay, so you’re just going to completely ignore everything I said and cherry pick me quoting you. What is with you people?
Lincoln was the one to make the difficult decisions to do away with an inhumane practice among other things and he wanted a united America. He did pretty much all the dirty work when the country was the most divided and least harmonious. Anyone who came after him and continued the work he started is a valid president in his own right, but Lincoln was the base for that future and part of why he is so remembered.
I still stand by that Lincoln isn’t mostly known for the Civil War and getting shot. That may be true to you, but where I live and by most people who knows about him, he is famous for being the president who ended slavery and stood up against a cruel practice that had been protected and encouraged by the government for ages before him.
I do not understand why you are so insistent on poo-pooing on his legacy and ignoring the points I made. You don’t know your own history.
Lincoln was president during what historians refer to as ‘The Really Nice Times’
I am genuinely shocked at how so many of you are completely ignorant to history and the context within. This would be like me smugly crossing my arms and concluding that all the people who tried to make things better during ww2 were somehow shitty people and/or less important figures than those who came after because they had to step up during hard times.
Do you people think that good leaders only count when things are going swimmingly? Are you going to blame whomever comes after trump, who will try to fix things, for the shit trump did?
My amygdala hates that that seems the most effective way out of all this. A lot of people are lost and angry and get mad when they feel threatened. Some, sure, are evil as evil can be for the sheer joy of cruelty. But plenty are small and angry and dont think anything can be better so they lash out and follow the strongmen.
The dead won’t care why they did it or that they change. But those who live because they change might just care that they do.
All I know is fuck I got tired being the only [slur] a bunch of rural republicans ever met, and I’m fucking pissed I had to leave for the reason I did.
The really funny thing is that I’m in a heterosexual couple. My wife is bi, but the closest I tread to the rainbow is polyamory.
It’s not even a good insult!
Oooh. I’m going to associate you with a group that has shown incredible resilience and generally embodies such dastardly values as embracing their true selves, seeking or building community, respecting each other, valuing mental health and self care, and living in defiance of what is expected of them.
I’ve been given more insulting compliments.I think fixing their shit isn’t our place. It kind of can’t be.
Id really rather spend twenty hours talking to a thoroughly unpleasant piece of shit than half that staring through a scope and pissing into a bag, or twenty minutes cleaning the guillotine. I honestly would.
And sometimes it works. I guess. But usually it’s a waste of time. We don’t have much of that left. And we mostly aren’t the people they would be able to hear. I fucking hate this shit. I’m fucking great at talking to awful pieces of shit, i post fucking recreationally (no offense, dear reader. I don’t mean you¹)
¹yes. Yes i do.
The predictable conclusion of fucking around.
God, that was a shitty night. The day after election day 2016 was horrible and I felt sick all day, but in 2024 it was a kind of grim numbness. I knew that what’s happening now was coming and I felt so fucking powerless to stop it and hated my fellow Americans who voted for it (or didn’t bother voting in states where it mattered) so much. Those last two things haven’t changed.
You might feel better that they definitely legally cheated with gerrymandering and voter restrictions, but they probably illegally cheated too. Both Trump and Musk implied that, I believe them.
It’s quite possible they fudged the numbers enough to get a win, but they definitely didn’t fake having 80 million-ish people supporting them. Even if Harris had barely squeaked out a win, this would just keep happening every election. The massive support shows me that fascism here was inevitable. Our fascist hellhole has to crash and burn for us to have any chance of becoming something better from the ashes.
Oh for sure, but we know 46% of people who voted are insane, dumb and/or easily manipulated. It’s that “who voted” part that makes a difference. Fascism is never inevitable.
Democrats should’ve ran an actual leftist candidate.
FPTP should also be abolished so you lot aren’t stuck with Dems vs Reps in the first place.
It was for us because of the capitalist dystopia our government chose to pursue. If Trump being elected the first time didn’t convince people it’s a bad idea, nothing would. They have to experience the horrors of it firsthand to hopefully get it through their thick skulls why it’s a bad thing and the very thing that this country was originally founded to avoid.
They have to experience the horrors of it firsthand to hopefully get it through their thick skulls why it’s a bad thing
This is such a frustrating and consistent issue. Every time I hear a story about a conservative changing their opinion, it’s because the consequences of their actions affected them or someone related to them. They can’t simply imagine how the consequences will play out or be bothered to care when it hurts their neighbors.
And even then, there’s like a 50/50 chance that they’ll just blame the Democrats for it and vow to keep voting for Republicans.
I’m only chiming in because I suspect that crashing and burning won’t actually help much.
It’s too easy for humans to disassociate ‘other people’, at which point, anything can happen.
Sure, crashing and burning might lead to a better system to work with, but that basically happened to Germany a while back and they seem to be struggling with a fascist rise lately… Seems like constant vigilance might be needed given our insecurities that drive us
There’s definitely a good chance we’ll go right back to this shit in a few generations, assuming we get out of it this time.
“The price of freedom is eternal vigilance.”
Ay, that’s the quote I was grasping for!
I don’t know about you, but this makes it worse, cause they are getting away with it so easily. They will cheat twice as hard for the next election.
Yeah, but they also got away with everything else up to that point.
So… Be the change?
Wow. Divisive. Indecorous. Censured by both houses.
You remember the day after the 2016 election? I drank too much to remember anything else I might have done.
I do. I wish I could forget. The fact that those were good days by comparison is…depressing.
Don’t have the image, but
‘Have the day you voted for’
A friend of mine…didn’t vote. But she’s disproportionately impacted by these policies. Whenever she brings it up now I find I can’t respond. I don’t want to lose my friend, it’s important to me that we work through this and make better choices later. But it is so hard.
Talk about the next vote and the protests in between. Going over mistakes might be satisfying in the moment but it’s not productive.
That said, I wouldn’t hold myself back 🤷♂️
Ive explained to her why she is about to lose her health insurance potentially. She’s low info, it’s crazy how apathetic many people are. But also…a shithole red state is all she has ever known. So it’s almost like she doesn’t believe things can be better even one state over.
a shithole red state is all she has ever known
How close was the vote in the state that her vote might’ve swung the electoral college?
That’s the sort of thing that depresses the electorate: feeling like their vote doean’t matter or gets tossed outright. Makes people feel powerless in choosing the occupant of the White House.
Over 1/3 of our voting population sits out every election (probably double that in non-presidential years). If even half of them showed up to vote, they’d see how much their vote matters, and why republicans go out of their way to suppress voter turnout.
If even half of them showed up for the dems, and the dems had +10 in the senate, they’d do nothing to help the people who elected them, give the Republicans half the discretionary budget in the name of bipartisanship, give the banks billions of dollars, and bomb a dozen middle eastern countries to prove they’re just as strong on foreign policy as Republicans. We know this because that is what happened. We need to focus on purging the party if we want our votes to matter in the general.
If there’s one thing the past six months have taught me it’s that republicans and democrats are exactly the same.
Oh. Wait.
They’re not the same, but it’s easy to see how people become too jaded and cynical to vote.
She’s from Missouri, so that’s definitely a part of it.
People won’t do the absolute bare minimum to inform themselves, it’s so aggravating. I see this in everything, not just politics. Please tell me there are more people slowly losing their mind and going mad over this.
Apparently there are plenty of people who do not exist in a permanent state of wonder about the world around them. For me, that was harder to accept than it ought to be…ongoing battle as you can see with my friend here. But yeah, most people have a baseline that doesn’t include the need to be fully informed, I reckon. At least in my experience. Aggravating at times, disappointing, confusing…then again not having to experience those must be blissful.
If the topic comes up again, ask her, “if you were really stupid, would you want somebody to tell you?” And no matter what she says, pokerface and change the subject or leave.
Ask her “What lesson have you learnt from all this?”
Yep, and precede it with something like “I enjoy our friendship but I have to ask…”
Put the emphasis on the friendship and how both can learn from it.I find in general that asking questions rather than making statements is a much less confrontational method of engaging with people. It’s letting them figure things out for themselves. “What makes you say that?” or “Where’d you hear that?” are good ones to start with when they make some outrageous claim.
Being silent and letting them keep digging is good, too.
Neurodivergents: Just talk about this emotional issue that impacts their self image rationally normies love that
could you be more smarmy and unpleasant, please?
Projection <3
Electoralism≠politics
Maybe the way to connect woth your friend is by doing something more substantial?
Has the removing of MAGA ornaments in shame become a widespread phenomenon?
The few that I pass on my way to work are all still slowly fading in the summer sun.
I regularly pass by a house with a giant “He Won” flag with string lights in the front window thats been there since 2020.
Yeah this post reeks of cope. We’re sleep walking through the second american civil war
Some is the same thing as all
Oh, it’s far enough away that you can sleep?
Meanwhile, I saw some asshole driving a cyberbrick yesterday. A lot of them are still proud of their identities as assholes.
I see a lot of them around here (Bay Area) and I always glare angrily at them.
I’m on the opposite coast, but I see them almost daily. The other day I saw one with a camper attachment on the back.
ETA: Behold! The most uncomfortable-looking camper I’ve ever seen. On the plus side, if you’re struggling to start a camp fire, this thing could start it for you!
That looks like a really bad photoshop until you look closely. Then it just looks really bad.
Ha, I do have a shot from another angle, but it’s more from behind and I didn’t think it worthy to post.
I wasn’t sure what I was looking at IRL either at first. I thought it was a weird trailor until it turned.
What a monstrosity!
I can’t help myself but to laugh at those dumb ass dumpsters. They’re even worse looking when they’re moving somehow.
When I spot them parked, I write “STUPID” on a post-it note and place it on the driver’s side door.
Something like this on a post-in note would be a good, too. Just a little something to let them know their choice of vehicle was noticed and is not approved of.
A cyber truck parked in my area. Out steps a 50yo woman. I live near an organic spa treatment place.
All I did was give her a wtf face when she exited. And she rushed back to her vehicle when I saw her again an hour later.
Have the apocalypse you voted for.
Mine just shot at me, ymmv
They’re not taking down the flags y’all are dreaming
No, they definitely do take them down. They might put them back up though when shit doesn’t affect them.
They used to be a trump billboard and about 15 “fight” signs on my way to work. Now all there is just a store that just happens to also sell trump merch
A house on a corner that I need to pass on my commute had a massive Trump flag facing the intersection, back during the election.
Not long after, the massive flag was taken down. A smaller flag was put near the house.
Now there’s nothing.
For a short time in-between, they did have signs up for local politicians. As someone who tries to actually research all the local candidates, it was convenient for me to know which candidates I didn’t have to bother with.
The neighbor who had a massive Trump sticker on his car no longer has that sticker.
There was a RV camp on my way to work that has multiple Trump flags. It’s gone now.
Sounds like a great opportunity for them to learn the lengths to which they’re exploited and manipulated daily. Hopefully they take it.
These are caricatures. Politics flavored entertainment.
notice how magats and the social media partially stopped talking about trans people.
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