God I wish chrome didn’t remove manifest v2
Here is the list of things that piss me off about firefox:
- It is dogshit slow
- It eats up a ludicrous amounts of RAM, which I wasn’t expecting since it’s one of the main things people make fun of chrome for
- It crashes constantly
- It tries to push it’s “AI” bullshit on me despite me turning it off on multiple occasions
- It puts ads on my home page
- It needs to be relaunched regularly because at some point it becomes too laggy to use. It even stops loading pages altogether
- “Restore previous session” feature doesn’t work half the time so restarting the browser is absolutely terrifying
- Profile management is a mess
Are there any alternatives? Is Brave any good?
Are there any alternatives? Is Brave any good?
No (well, sort of, but not really). Brave Software suffers from the same problem as Mozilla in terms of flailing desperately for monetization strategies, but Brave is downstream of Chrome (via Chromium), and ultimately bound for a similar fate unless they magically find the resources to fork and develop their own independent browser engine. They likely can hold on to Manifest 2.0 for some time, but at the cost of accumulating technical debt. There is also LibreWolf (my personal recommendation), which is downstream of Firefox, removing most of the weird shit Mozilla does to try to create an alternate revenue streams to the noose Google provides in the form of default search sponsorship. The only other alternatives worth consideration are Safari (Apple exclusive, no ad blocking, boo), and downstream browsers based on WebKit. These are getting pretty obscure though. Most have transitioned to Blink (Chromium) via QtWebEngine or their own means. Only a handful of noteworthy examples (like
qutebrowserand Gnome Web) remain.It eats up a ludicrous amounts of RAM, which I wasn’t expecting since it’s one of the main things people make fun of chrome for
Modern websites get more and more bloated, both computationally, and in terms of assets. Assets like images, scripts, stylesheets, audio / video, etc. need to be stored somewhere. These can either go in memory (fast, but consumes memory), onto your disk (at least an order of magnitude slower than memory), or be re-downloaded every single time they’re needed (“dogshit” slow, and will destroy your quota on metered connections like mobile carriers).
Using RAM isn’t inherently bad. It is the best place to cache data if the space is not needed for other purposes, and this cache can be purged very quickly. RAM that isn’t being used does nothing for you, and caching things on the disk (HDD or SSD) causes wear over time, while caching things in DRAM does not. If it is not causing performance issues for other applications on the machine, it is not a problem.
The setting isn’t exposed directly, but can be manipulated in about:config. Specifically browser.cache.memory.capacity. There are other settings under browser.cache.* regarding disk usage. By default (-1), they are set dynamically according to the amount of RAM and disk resources available on the system.
The whole point of caching though is to increase speed. Grabbing something directly from RAM instead of getting it over the wire is supposed to be fast. If it is caching an absurd amount of data and still going slow, something is wrong.
It crashes constantly
There has got to be something else fundamentally screwy going on with this computer. I don’t mean to come across as a fanboy (because I am actually quite pessimistic about the direction the web is taking, and Mozilla’s ‘stewardship’ of the only viable alternative to Google), but Firefox has always been among the most stable applications I have ever used. Occasionally, some websites don’t work correctly, but things like crashes have been incredibly rare in my experience.
Web browsers are among the most valuable targets for zero-day exploits and malware. By necessity, they are among the most field-tested and hardened pieces of software around. This is one part of the reason why there are so few alternatives available. If your browser is regularly crashing, this is A: very atypical, and B: a cause for concern, as crashes often indicate a potentially exploitable programming / configuration error.
This is a really nice response, OP, you should listen to what this person has to say.
rip presto
I’ve been using Firefox for years, and I’ve never noticed ai being forced into it.
I’m talking about this thing that keep popping up with seemingly every update:
There was also some “AI summary” thing that popped up once but I turned it off and won’t come back now thankfully
The AI shit is new. To disable it all, type about:config in the address bar and turn all these to false:
browser.ml.enable
browser.ml.chat.enabled
browser.ml.chat.menu
browser.ml.chat.shortcuts
browser.ml.chat.shortcuts.custom
extensions.ml.enabled
browser.tabs.groups.smart.enabled
browser.tabs.groups.smart.userEnabled
Oooh thanks for this. I wasn’t staying on top of the new settings so this is really helpful.
If anyone is making these or other about:config changes you need to restart the browser to effectively save them.
browser.ml.enable
:sicko-yes:
huh, I have never seen that popup. maybe they’re doing a slow rollout?
Maybe? I ended up getting it and disabling it straight away, had I been in a less lazy mood I probably would’ve switched browsers entirely, though all of the big ones have their own AI bullshit now as well.
This is literally the first time I’ve seen that. Like holy shit, that would push me to uninstall…but then, I am using Firefox accounts to sync, tabs and passwords and whatnots…
Bleak shit, sorry you have to deal with that!
If you want another suggestion, LibreWolf is also pretty decent. Chuds hate it and I’ve been using it for a long while, to my satisfaction.
Gonna try LibreWolf then. I just hope at least “Restore previous session” works properly
On Firefox I have it set to always reopen my previous tabs and that works a lot more reliably
I might have to give this a go, thank you.
LibreWolf is just Firefox.
The software? Yeah. But not the config. Compared to regular Firefox, I’ve had no “sync” or “mozilla account” bullshit to deal with. Sure, you can manually customize Firefox to be identical to LibreWolf, but LibreWolf is still an option for someone who wants a plug-and-play browser without having to go through the work of customizing Firefox.
yeah it’s just nice to use the normal firefox browser because you get updates immediately when it releases. But maye LibreWolf releases quickly too.
Another vote for librewolf. It does hog memory for me though, and I’ll be looking for that FF tab unloader mentioned elsewhere in this thread (LW is based on FF).
Been a Librewolf user for ages and had no idea the devs were lefties. That’s nice. Too many people in foss/privacy spaces are frankly outright nazis
The RAM thing (and it getting slow over time) is due to the default way it handles inactive tabs. Mozilla decided that users would probably prefer to have tabs be fast when switching between them, so they are kept “active” in RAM for basically ever. This was not the case back when RAM was considered a scarce resource.
I installed an extension to automatically unload tabs after a certain period of inactivity and RAM usage is no longer a problem. As of the most recent update you can also unload tabs manually natively.
As for the ads, AI, etc, all of that can be turned off, and generally only has to be turned off once. Though you may want to look into a fork that does this for you, like LibreWolf.
I installed an extension to automatically unload tabs after a certain period of inactivity and RAM usage is no longer a problem.
Which addon is this? Search engines are unfortunately useless these days, and I just got a thousand auto generated articles about how Firefox has an unload tabs context menu button now.
highly recommend you install this @kleeon@hexbear.net . Its a huge memory saver.
What OS are you on and what other addons are you using? Something definitely odd seems to be going on with your install.
Thank you. This is a nice QoL improvement.
This was not the case back when RAM was considered a scarce resource
And it seems people are working overtime to make it scarce again. Firefox alone is taking a whopping 10 gigs - a third of my RAM. And between VS Code and a few things running inside of WSL, I now feel like I have to upgrade to 64 gigs
Christ, I’m typing this on Firefox and it’s only using 2.5gb of ram. And I have 16 tabs! An excessive amount of tabs! What do you have open???
some of us like to use tabs like bookmarks and never close them ever
Same but I also never revisit them
40 hexbear tabs open because every time I want to go back to it I just open a new tab rather than go back to the one I was using before (that would take ~5 seconds more and I no longer have that kinda attention span!)
With the number of tabs I have open 16 is effectively indistinguishable from 0
I have almost 100 tabs open. Most of them are just text - github pages, google search results, news articles, documentation pages. And a couple of youtube videos
Granted, it is a lot of tabs but I don’t get why rendering some text to the screen should take so much memory
google search results, news articles,
aren’t really “just text” unless you’ve done something funky to google and are only browsing cool news sites
2.5 gigs is still a shitload, no?
I’m watching 3 different video essays on 3 tabs, and a 4th video on a Baldur’s Gate 3 challenge run. Just watching like 10 mins of each and rotating. Idk why I do this.
Also a few Hexbear and wiki pages open, and for some reason tvtropes
When people say “unused RAM is wasted RAM” I want to kick something
Yeah, they seem to forget that there are other processes that also need to run on this computer. Resources are finite
What are you running in firefox? My firefox currently has 11 tabs open and is only at 1.4gb ram use.
The biggest consumer of my ram right now is discord at 3gb.
It is down to 7 gigs now. According to firefox task manager - 1 gig for “GPU” process, another gig for “Firefox” process and the rest are mostly google pages - each seems to use around 100 megs on average
10 gigs?!?! wtf? That sounds like a bug! I have 16GB RAM + 5GB swap on my “beefy” machine. Use it for all the regular stuff (web browsing, basic productivity) plus compiling software, gaming, running VMs, that is more memory hungry. Other than running win 11 VMs I notice zero performance issues. My laptop has 8GB RAM and I can browse the web without issue on there (Librewolf), only struggles with running VMs and Jetbrains IDEs.
I’d report the memory usage to Mozilla. That doesn’t sound right unless you’re doing some crazy javascript stuff?
Is Brave any good?
Brave is run by a chud who was kicked out of Mozilla for donating to some pro-Proposition 8 organization (anti-same sex marriage in case you don’t remember) and the company pushes cryptocurrency hard. It’s also another Chromium browser, so not an alternative in the same way as Firefox.
“Restore previous session” feature doesn’t work half the time so restarting the browser is absolutely terrifying
I’ve used that feature dozens of times for thousands of tabs, and never had a problem. Did it just not restore any tabs when you click the button?
I literally restore over 10,000 tabs every day when I turn my computer back on.
It restores whatever it feels like. Like some windows would come back - others won’t. I have no idea why.
Sometimes the missing windows are in the “receny closed windows” menu but often aren’t and gone forever
Your entire post sounds like something one of my developers would type out after spending a half hour trying to figure out how to install a new piece of technology. As I tell them, your issues are probably due to a misconfiguration issue.
I use Firefox personally day to day and have very little issues with it. I’m going to point by point rebuttal:
Slow, don’t know what you mean, I use it every day. Do you perhaps have other add-ons or something running in it that’s causing it to slow down or maybe sites that don’t work appropriately?
Firefox uses less RAM on average than Chrome, but a lot of your any of the Blink browsers. It is true that it uses less RAM, but there are other builds that are even leaner. I use it to maximize the amount of RAM I have access to on my system so I can run virtual machines in my professional career.
What AI bullshit are they pushing on you? I didn’t even know Firefox had AI features. That’s how little it bothers me and how little it actually comes up.
If it’s crashing constantly, there seems to be a problem with your setup and not necessarily the technology itself.
Yes, their ad model is annoying, and the fact that they have ads to support themselves suck, but they have to make money somehow, and nobody else is paying for it
I don’t relaunch my Firefox and use it to the tune of 50 plus tabs for 30 plus days straight with little issue. The new integrated sidebar tabs make this really nice.
I’ve literally never had the restore previous feature never not work for me, but you could also just install a session manager extension of which there are many if that’s not good enough.
I will fully admit, profile management is a total wreck on this browser, so I won’t actually complain about that point.
I’m not sure you should use any alternatives. I’m not entirely sure you can handle a browser correctly. However, I think Vivaldi would probably fit many of your pain points along the company embracing anti-AI.
Careful though, I think they have ads somewhere on their site too to support their browser.
Link to blog:
Vivaldi wouldn’t be my first chromium-based browser choice. Still too many privacy issues vs other browsers:
That’s fair. I consider the privacy issues, but I really, really hate the user interface of Google Chrome itself and Brave is basically a copy and paste of their UI.
I like Vivaldi for all of the additional features it offers users. I only use it for work-based stuff, so the privacy stuff doesn’t really bother me since my company’s already monitoring all of that or when I need a Google-based browser for whatever reason.
If privacy’s a major concern, then I would probably just go to like, librewolf which is developed by the community to be as privacy forward as possible.
You can also just add a few add-ons to make it more privacy-focused like no script and no cookies and ublock light.
Yeah you seem like you know what the deal is. I basically posted that for anyone reading along in the thread. Quite a few people on this site have no clue about privacy and its kind of my hobby horse.
You know, it’s kind of a bit sad that people don’t understand the privacy aspect of the internet. I wish people did.
I understand, though, that people are busy and that privacy is just one of the many, many things we all have to worry about.
Just to second this. I use Chrome and Firefox daily for development work, and FF is my primary browser. It’s not noticeably slower than chrome, and I use TST with over 1000 discarded (hibernated) tabs organised in hierarchies for different projects. Usually 30–50 open at any one time.
I’ve not seen AI being pushed, or even ads, but maybe I’ve just configured something a long time ago. UBlockOrogin and a couple of TamperMonkey scripts to fix up some sites I use regularly that have irritating CSS.
Not had session restore issues that I can remember. And I don’t know what counts as ‘ludicrous’ amounts of RAM but on a 32GB machine running editors, google firebase emulators, various node servers and a bunch of other cruft, I’ve never run short because of FF.
Yeah, I don’t know what this person’s complaining about. Firefox can use a little bit of RAM initially, but if you’re not going back and forth to the tabs constantly, it doesn’t, it unloads them from RAM after like an hour, and it reduces its RAM footprint to a tiny fragmented amounts.
You block origin is really really tight and prevents practically any problems I have and then I use No script on top of that which just makes my setup super lightweight.
In the same boat with using 32 gigabytes of RAM, but I also have systems that have 4 gigs of RAM that I’ve never had issues with Firefox.
As I tell them, your issues are probably due to a misconfiguration issue.
And what issue would that be? I simply installed firefox and then used it normally for the past month. I guess my “misconfiguration issue” was installing firefox.
I’m going to point by point rebuttal
I’m not sure how you can rebut my personal experience.
Slow, don’t know what you mean, I use it every day. Do you perhaps have other add-ons or something running in it that’s causing it to slow down or maybe sites that don’t work appropriately?
I mean youtube videos would stop responding to input for several seconds, pages would stutter randomly, pages would completely refuse to load etc. It gets worse the longer the browser is left running. I have a handful of simple extension installed - ad blocker, proxy client, basic dev tools. Here is the full list if you’re curious:
spoiler
Adblock Plus
Cookie-Editor
Imagus
Proxy SwitchyOmega 3
Reddit Enhancement Suite
Return Youtube Dislike
Tempermonkey
Vue.js devtools
What AI bullshit are they pushing on you? I didn’t even know Firefox had AI features. That’s how little it bothers me and how little it actually comes up.
I mentioned it in another comment. There is an “AI chatbot” button on the left side of the screen. It would popup the panel randomly when I start the browser. Currently it’s turned off but I have no confidence it won’t come back in the future. Do you honestly think Mozilla Corp. is immune to “AI” slop?
Yes, their ad model is annoying, and the fact that they have ads to support themselves suck, but they have to make money somehow, and nobody else is paying for it
I just don’t care how Mozilla makes it’s money. I wouldn’t be complaining about ads if everything else worked properly
I’ve literally never had the restore previous feature never not work for me
👍
I’m not entirely sure you can handle a browser correctly
I guess that’s the problem. It’s a very complicated piece of technology after all - a thing where you type in a website url and then it renders it for you
I simply installed firefox and then used it normally for the past month. I guess my “misconfiguration issue” was installing firefox.
This is clearly a skill issue from somebody that’s unable to use the event viewer in Windows.
I don’t mind trash-talking software, but I think it should be deserved and not because of some poor kid’s inability to run a computer correctly.
As far as AI, Mozilla is a complicated company that makes missteps and mistakes all the time, but they do make one of the best commercially viable privacy tested browsers.
Sorry, buddy, when Google Chrome is also pushing it, your point’s invalid.
Edit:
Your list of extensions does not inspire confidence, especially when you’re using Adblock Plus instead of a real adblocker like ublock origin. Did you even check to see if the extensions you were using were causing the problems by turning them off or using a private window?
Cookie editors can cause major problems with websites, and Adblock Plus seems to be a headache from what I’ve heard to use.
Are we living in parallel timelines or something? I haven’t had many issues with Firefox for years now, only the very occasional crash.
Anyway whatever slight shortcomings Firefox has compared to Chrome it’s worth it for not essentially being spyware.
That’s interesting. I haven’t had it crash in years and it restores perfectly for me. Firefox has a runtime that is about 20 seconds less than the runtime of my computer as well.
Weird behaviour.
As a Firefox user since version 40 because chrome would frequently scan my hard drive for no reason. It used to be so much worse lol this Firefox is good in comparison.
I’ve never used it myself but I’ve heard betterfox can help https://github.com/yokoffing/BetterFox
Mozilla has been very rapidly destroying itself. The plan to rewrite the rendering engine got scrapped so it’s still running gecko underneath it all. Unironically safari is better to use which I never thought I’d say. Idk why but Firefox takes ages to resolve the websites address but I never have this issue in other browsers. Crashing I’ve never personally had but I assume you’re a tab hoarder which yeah Firefox eats ram like nobodies business. Give betterfox a go see if it helps.
I’m not entirely sure why so many of the comments are being unhelpful and rude. “It’s a configuration issue” doesn’t really help anyone and theres a an expectation that software works in its default state. I however use Firefox from an ideological anti google standpoint but I’ve never considered it a good browser lol I just put up with its shit. My favourite bug was for years if I added a new browser to the account sync it would duplicate all my bookmarks and for ages my bookmarks were in a terrible state. I eventually went to clean them up which somehow resulted in my phone losing all of them which then synced back to my desktop. 10/10 software took 3 billion years to add vertical tabs… still has the superior dev tools though
Also not sure why several comments are denying Mozilla’s shift into ai it’s literally their main strategy right now there’s a fucking glowing ai button in the sidebar…
A tip for people here if you want to actually help someone don’t just reply with “works on my machine guess you’re stupid” it’s not helpful and it’s extremely Reddit coded behaviour and doesn’t help move people to using Firefox. Same goes for this websites Linux advice it’s atrocious
I’m just baffled by how there seem to exist web browser stans. Web browsers are like some of the worst pieces of software to ever exist. I can’t imagine how you can look at this unholy monstrosity and say “this is great actually”
Chrome is also garbagesoft but at least chrome users don’t have the gall to defend it religiously
Same goes for this websites Linux advice it’s atrocious
Also this. One day I will post the same thread about linux desktop but for now, I only have to work with linux servers (alhamdulillah)
The true way is rejecting the folly of computers and living in the woods harvesting mushrooms. Oh how I wish. My family used to make fun of my great uncle for growing vegetables and doing woodwork listening to 40s records but he was living the life. His favourite Linux desktop was going outside
growing vegetables and doing woodwork listening to 40s records but he was living the life
God I wish that were me
huh I am not sure I’ve ever had it crash. maybe once or twice ever?
I guess most people don’t have 80 tabs open at any given time but still, chrome was able to handle it way better
I’ve got 313 tabs open in Firefox rn
I do have at least 50…
I got a couple thousand rn, no crashes. Can’t run Minecraft though without my computer being paralyzed.
I’ve tried to cultivate using bookmarks for things I’d like to refer to but don’t want to use immediately/regularly. But also I’m not a serious tab fiend to begin with. I am sorry for your firefox memory usage :(
You can also press CTRL+SHIFT+D to bookmark all tabs and name the folder something like “Stuff I told myself I’d look at on 08/31/25.”
But who am I to talk - my friends are baffled by how I’ve never used the “archive” function on my emails, and I don’t exactly understand their ways, either.
why do that when i can just have 700 tabs open including hexbear tabs from five accounts ago?
I had an issue with Firefox crashing all the time and it turned out to be a bad RAM stick. You might try running a mem test just to rule that out.
Just to hop on what other people are saying, your Firefox/computer must be the problem because in my experience Firefox is very stable and doesn’t tend to crash.
I’m not reading this whole thread. Use ctrl shift t to bring back the last closed. Use multi account containers plugin. Actually set your own home page, Firefox is showing you ads on its default homepage, not yours. Set up doh/dot. Set up a socks web proxy.
You also likely have something fucked up about your computer or network.
E: I made myself a liar and read the thread. OP is using a bunch of not the greatest extensions some of which are without a doubt causing the problems they are having.