Yeah I believe that things like SA, fascism, genocide, and hoarding wealth are sub-human behaviours, is that wrong?
Use of “ape” as an insult.
Yeah I agree its an insult to call IOF members who do despicable genocidal crimes against humanity “apes” because apes are better than them. I apologize to all primates.
Usage of ableist “REEE”.
I didn’t know it was ableist at the time, I acknowledge I made a mistake, and I’m not going to use it again. Simple.
Misgendering.
You’re wrong, where is the misgendering?
Banned for “History of racism, ableism, misanthropy and hostility”.
Yeah that was because I called IOF members sub-human. I have no history of racism. I can accept hostility and misanthropy but I don’t do that anymore except against zionazis. The hostility and misanthropy was because I got too mad at people who I perceived to be ableist.
A nazi bar is a space where bigoted views become dominant due to a lack of censorship.
Ok if in your experience using the word “psychopath” as an insult *towards the bourgeoisie leads to bigoted views becoming dominant then I’ll retract my comment and apologize.
As far as I’m concerned if a woman tells you that you’ve misgendered her using any of the terms in question, the only appropriate response involves an apology.
Whereas mate has traditionally been understood as a male solidarity term used ‘by males and for males’, this preliminary survey shows that more young women, aged between 18 and 29 years, are reporting their use of the address term mate compared to women aged over 50 years.
But that’s not even the core of the issue. If somebody has been misgendered it is so cruel to start debating the merit of whether it’s actually okay to use that word for them, especially to them. Apologize or get lost.
You’re wrong, “mate” means “friend”, a gender neutral term. Or does it mean something different in amerikkka where you live. I intentionally called you mate because it’s gender neutral. You made a mistake based on your limited Amerikkkan worldview and need to apologise.
I am not american, your assumption that everyone you talk to is american by default is an ironic example of your own limited worldview. Also, you not considering that the words you use can have different meanings to different groups of people also reveals your ignorance.
Furthermore the term “subhuman” is not a racial slur
In the vast majority of contexts, it very much is. You cannot remove the racist undertones of words such as “subhuman”, no matter how progressive the context you use them in is.
it’s also prominently used against disabled and ND people
Yeah because some “people” are ableist scum and want to dehumanize disabled/ND people in profound ways because they see them as “economically unproductive” etc. Which is, in itself, sub-human behaviour.
calling someone a psychopath and being very explicit that you meant it as a biological determining factor for their behavior is genuinely indicative of a concerning attitude
Yeah it’s indicitave of blind arrogance and being a pseud but afaik it has been established that patterns of behaviours falling under “being a psycho” are caused in part by slight differences in brain structure. I’m not saying it’s the only determining factor nor that we need eugenics, that’s fucked up and takes the heat off the mode of production. If anything people have different needs that require different levels of care and we should advance a more humane society such that these needs are met so they can lead dignified lives.
Yeah because some “people” are ableist scum and want to dehumanize disabled/ND people in profound ways because they see them as “economically unproductive” etc. Which is, in itself, sub-human behaviour.
They invented the term “Subhuman” to apply to the disabled, the “economically unproductive” and other ethnic groups. It is not a misused term when used by racists and ableists. They are using a term coined by people like them to describe the same people it originally described. You can’t reappropriate it.
Yeah it’s indicitave of blind arrogance and being a pseud
On your part? Sure, but it seems weird to say that in the middle of quintupling down. Anyway, here’s something that might actually be productive to explain:
but afaik it has been established that patterns of behaviours falling under “being a psycho” are caused in part by slight differences in brain structure.
The framework that you are speaking in is very detrimentally oversimplified. Any difference in people’s behavior can be explained as being “a difference in brain structure” depending on what you mean by that phrase, because we have different neural pathways that produce different personalities, memories, etc., but it is extremely unusual for you to be able to look at a single behavior in an uncontrolled environment and identify a specific characteristic of brain structure that caused it (outside of simple learned responses, which this almost certainly isn’t), because the vast, vast majority of human behaviors can stem from many different causes that vary case-by-case (as well as having multiple contributing causes in any one case, as you note). Among most people, the apparent reason for the majority of difference in behavior can be explained as a matter of socialization/enculturation and other mundane biographical factors, and this is no exception.
There is no reason to assume this person has any specific personality disorder because we simply don’t have information to make that conclusion more likely than that he was socialized to be an asshole, which is not the same thing as having ASPD with psychopathic traits. You don’t need that condition in order to act like this, and most people who do things like this do not have that condition.
When people were sterilised and killed they were called subhuman, the people who began calling people subhuman were the ones who inspired those actions. The term originates with eugenicists to justify their murderous ideology.
When people were sterilised and killed they were called subhuman
Yeah like this really highlights the projection though because isn’t it really rich to go around killing and sterilizing people so you can destroy their society for your own gain, and then use the excuse that they are the “subhumans” for being different and/or suffering from the adverse effects of the colonization campaign you run? (“you” as in a western power like not implying you agree with that at all)
I have spoken to people called subhuman and sterilised actually, many people have. They’re still around you know.
The last official governmentally sanctioned eugenics campaign named explicitly as such in Europe (Of which I am aware) ended in the 70s, unofficially later. This isn’t ancient history man, and it isn’t history that spared people “in the west”.
My dad tells stories of how they were told how to behave around potential escapees from the eugenics facility.
The words you want for what the nazis were is inhumane, cruel, evil, and a variety of other things. Not subhuman. No one is subhuman. We are all human, and allowing the possibility of removing humanity from others is how you get fascism.
On the other hand, it is projection. Furthermore the term “subhuman” is not a racial slur and is primarily meant to dehumanize. I think fascists should be dehumanized for their behaviours. Genocidal scum who SA need to be degraded and dehumanized.
Not by using their terms and conceding their intellectual basis as being correct (Just applied the other way).
You don’t defeat homophobes by calling them slurs because you feel the stereotypes they apply to homosexuals apply better to them, the same goes for white supremacists, eugenicists , fascists et al.
Subhuman is literally the term the nazis used man. You don’t win by conceding that the idea that someone can be or make themselves be less than human and that this is a correct way to frame other humans.
Fascists are humans, their flaws are human flaws, people who commit SA are humans, and they should be treated with these things in mind. That does not excuse them, the fact that they choose to abuse our shared humanity is wrong.
Subhuman is literally the term the nazis used man.
Yep now that I remember, thats correct, the word “untermensch” translates to “subhuman” in english. I will be more careful about using the term from now on.
For the sake of discussion though;
You don’t defeat homophobes by calling them slurs because you feel the stereotypes they apply to homosexuals apply better to them
I agree, and, to communicate what I meant clearly, when I used the term “sub-human” I meant it literally, as in “below the standard of good/neutral human behaviour” i.e. “pathologically harmful to others”.
I don’t mean to say that the nazis stereotypes about disabled people/slavs/roma apply more to them, I frankly do not know any of the stereotypes nazis had about the people they persecuted other than their genocidal Judeophobic propaganda.
I meant it more in a stark literal way (sub-human, below human), not in a way that relied on racial/ableist/queerphobic stereotypes created by the nazis.
*No actually I think that part of it is acknowledging that when racists call nonwhite people “civilization destroying, barbaric, etc.” as qualifiers for the term “sub-human” I think these terms apply more to whites and the west than anyone else. Look at history.
You don’t win by conceding that the idea that someone can be or make themselves be less than human and that this is a correct way to frame other humans.
Genuinely asking, isn’t the idea of prison or capital punishment based on the idea that the person has made themselves less of a human being and thus deserves to have some or all of their rights removed? I agree that most western and imperialist countries unfairly fill their prisons with ethnic minorities, torture, and kill them, but what about when you need to throw reactionaries in jail?
For the record I don’t want to “win” here per se and I know it would be insane to declare that everyone should start using the word “sub-human” as its a winning strategy. I’m just angry.
the fact that they choose to abuse our shared humanity is wrong
Well I don’t think I share any humanity with a being that is rabidly genocidal, sees me as inferior to them, and either wants to destroy me without mercy or wouldn’t mind doing so to further their own personal gain. *Why should I conceptually share humanity with someone who doesn’t even see me as a human being?
A nazi bar is a space where bigoted views become dominant due to a lack of censorship.
Frequent use of “subhuman” as an insult.
Use of “ape” as an insult.
Usage of ableist “REEE”.
Use of “genetic abomination” as an insult.
Misgendering.
Banned for “History of racism, ableism, misanthropy and hostility”.
Attributed cruel behaviour to “Biological factors”.
Yeah I believe that things like SA, fascism, genocide, and hoarding wealth are sub-human behaviours, is that wrong?
Yeah I agree its an insult to call IOF members who do despicable genocidal crimes against humanity “apes” because apes are better than them. I apologize to all primates.
I didn’t know it was ableist at the time, I acknowledge I made a mistake, and I’m not going to use it again. Simple.
You’re wrong, where is the misgendering?
Yeah that was because I called IOF members sub-human. I have no history of racism. I can accept hostility and misanthropy but I don’t do that anymore except against zionazis. The hostility and misanthropy was because I got too mad at people who I perceived to be ableist.
Ok if in your experience using the word “psychopath” as an insult *towards the bourgeoisie leads to bigoted views becoming dominant then I’ll retract my comment and apologize.
Yes. “Subhuman” is primarily used as a label by white supremacists to degrade anyone who is different to them.
Calling me “mate” (a gendered term that applies to men) when my pronouns are right next to my name
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And yet you still decided comment.
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So are dude, bro, and man in some circles.
As far as I’m concerned if a woman tells you that you’ve misgendered her using any of the terms in question, the only appropriate response involves an apology.
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Even in fucking australia it was a gendered term
But that’s not even the core of the issue. If somebody has been misgendered it is so cruel to start debating the merit of whether it’s actually okay to use that word for them, especially to them. Apologize or get lost.
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I am not american, your assumption that everyone you talk to is american by default is an ironic example of your own limited worldview. Also, you not considering that the words you use can have different meanings to different groups of people also reveals your ignorance.
In the vast majority of contexts, it very much is. You cannot remove the racist undertones of words such as “subhuman”, no matter how progressive the context you use them in is.
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Yeah because some “people” are ableist scum and want to dehumanize disabled/ND people in profound ways because they see them as “economically unproductive” etc. Which is, in itself, sub-human behaviour.
Yeah it’s indicitave of blind arrogance and being a pseud but afaik it has been established that patterns of behaviours falling under “being a psycho” are caused in part by slight differences in brain structure. I’m not saying it’s the only determining factor nor that we need eugenics, that’s fucked up and takes the heat off the mode of production. If anything people have different needs that require different levels of care and we should advance a more humane society such that these needs are met so they can lead dignified lives.
They invented the term “Subhuman” to apply to the disabled, the “economically unproductive” and other ethnic groups. It is not a misused term when used by racists and ableists. They are using a term coined by people like them to describe the same people it originally described. You can’t reappropriate it.
On your part? Sure, but it seems weird to say that in the middle of quintupling down. Anyway, here’s something that might actually be productive to explain:
The framework that you are speaking in is very detrimentally oversimplified. Any difference in people’s behavior can be explained as being “a difference in brain structure” depending on what you mean by that phrase, because we have different neural pathways that produce different personalities, memories, etc., but it is extremely unusual for you to be able to look at a single behavior in an uncontrolled environment and identify a specific characteristic of brain structure that caused it (outside of simple learned responses, which this almost certainly isn’t), because the vast, vast majority of human behaviors can stem from many different causes that vary case-by-case (as well as having multiple contributing causes in any one case, as you note). Among most people, the apparent reason for the majority of difference in behavior can be explained as a matter of socialization/enculturation and other mundane biographical factors, and this is no exception.
There is no reason to assume this person has any specific personality disorder because we simply don’t have information to make that conclusion more likely than that he was socialized to be an asshole, which is not the same thing as having ASPD with psychopathic traits. You don’t need that condition in order to act like this, and most people who do things like this do not have that condition.
When people were sterilised and killed they were called subhuman, the people who began calling people subhuman were the ones who inspired those actions. The term originates with eugenicists to justify their murderous ideology.
Yeah like this really highlights the projection though because isn’t it really rich to go around killing and sterilizing people so you can destroy their society for your own gain, and then use the excuse that they are the “subhumans” for being different and/or suffering from the adverse effects of the colonization campaign you run? (“you” as in a western power like not implying you agree with that at all)
I have spoken to people called subhuman and sterilised actually, many people have. They’re still around you know. The last official governmentally sanctioned eugenics campaign named explicitly as such in Europe (Of which I am aware) ended in the 70s, unofficially later. This isn’t ancient history man, and it isn’t history that spared people “in the west”. My dad tells stories of how they were told how to behave around potential escapees from the eugenics facility.
The words you want for what the nazis were is inhumane, cruel, evil, and a variety of other things. Not subhuman. No one is subhuman. We are all human, and allowing the possibility of removing humanity from others is how you get fascism.
Not by using their terms and conceding their intellectual basis as being correct (Just applied the other way). You don’t defeat homophobes by calling them slurs because you feel the stereotypes they apply to homosexuals apply better to them, the same goes for white supremacists, eugenicists , fascists et al. Subhuman is literally the term the nazis used man. You don’t win by conceding that the idea that someone can be or make themselves be less than human and that this is a correct way to frame other humans.
Fascists are humans, their flaws are human flaws, people who commit SA are humans, and they should be treated with these things in mind. That does not excuse them, the fact that they choose to abuse our shared humanity is wrong.
Yep now that I remember, thats correct, the word “untermensch” translates to “subhuman” in english. I will be more careful about using the term from now on.
For the sake of discussion though;
I agree, and, to communicate what I meant clearly, when I used the term “sub-human” I meant it literally, as in “below the standard of good/neutral human behaviour” i.e. “pathologically harmful to others”.
I don’t mean to say that the nazis stereotypes about disabled people/slavs/roma apply more to them, I frankly do not know any of the stereotypes nazis had about the people they persecuted other than their genocidal Judeophobic propaganda.
I meant it more in a stark literal way (sub-human, below human), not in a way that relied on racial/ableist/queerphobic stereotypes created by the nazis.
*No actually I think that part of it is acknowledging that when racists call nonwhite people “civilization destroying, barbaric, etc.” as qualifiers for the term “sub-human” I think these terms apply more to whites and the west than anyone else. Look at history.
Genuinely asking, isn’t the idea of prison or capital punishment based on the idea that the person has made themselves less of a human being and thus deserves to have some or all of their rights removed? I agree that most western and imperialist countries unfairly fill their prisons with ethnic minorities, torture, and kill them, but what about when you need to throw reactionaries in jail?
For the record I don’t want to “win” here per se and I know it would be insane to declare that everyone should start using the word “sub-human” as its a winning strategy. I’m just angry.
Well I don’t think I share any humanity with a being that is rabidly genocidal, sees me as inferior to them, and either wants to destroy me without mercy or wouldn’t mind doing so to further their own personal gain. *Why should I conceptually share humanity with someone who doesn’t even see me as a human being?
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