OK, face of Karl Marx then. The German guy who never even set foot in the USSR.
Oh wait you think that’s bad too.
What about Mao-no.
What about Che Guev-no.
Ho Chi-no.
Venez-no.
What about the Paris commune? No? Still bad in your mind?
Marxist Austria? Nah I’m sure the army that put an end to that is preferable according to you. They called themselves socialist with none of the Soviet imagery after all!
Even if we completely rebranded socialism you’d make it your mission to add the Soviet imagery back in and remind everyone of it. Like y’all do for decidedly capitalist bandaids like student loan forgiveness or food stamps that don’t even have anything to do with socialism.
Americans threw Eugene Debbs in jail for protesting WW1. Americans unleashed the national guard on college campuses at Columbia and Kent State and on anti-homeless activists in Chicago and police reformer in Baltimore and Ferguson and now LA and New Orleans, in an endless war on anyone that even smelled slightly of whatever we’re defining as Marxist of late. These are people who spend God only knows how much money and manpower to put a surveillance dragnet around The Quackers, while screaming from the pulpit about how there’s no such thing as religious freedom anymore.
Even if we completely rebranded socialism you’d make it your mission to add the Soviet imagery back in and remind everyone of it.
They brand Donald Trump as a Soviet Socialist. It’s utterly divorced from reality.
I don’t even know what to respond to a comment like this except to point out that you are absolutely hurting every cause you say you believe in with rhetoric like this.
A few people trying to try something doesnt mean they succeeded at trying said things.
I mean, here we are on lemmy where people insist on nonsensical revolutions and have hated the idea of working to change parties; the only pragmatic solution, for ever.
look into the history of leftist movements, and don’t be an asshole.
Calling me an asshole implicitly, after asking me to make your argument for you is actual asshole behaviour.
what do you mean where bro. it’s everywhere. south america had a pink wave, and it’s going through another of sorts atm. it’s your continent, how do you not know that. the US is very much biased to the far right, but it’s common in the rest of the world for demsocs to pop up.
entryism has a long history of not going well, either.
look things up instead of being contrarian and coming here just to get angry with people.
I don’t think further conversation on this chain will be productive. Spouting irrelevant rhetoric with strenuous relations while completely neglecting any of the points I’ve made can only go so far.
Also, to call me a contrarian, while being unable to acknowledge that you have a severe marketing issue I think is a great microcosm of the attitudes here.
You feel that being angry and isolated enough will somehow spread change, forgetting that you’re probably in the sub 1% in terms of groups of people, and haven’t made a dent into the other 99%
I’ll let the various communist parties currently in power in countries like the PRC, Vietnam, etc. to distance themselves from the hammer and sickle, as you don’t personally take them seriously.
Okay, cool. I’ll continue to organize with groups that uphold existing socialism, rather than throw it under the bus for an easy rhetorical strategy that has always backfired by legitimizing anti-communist narratives.
Good luck with that. You folks are so reactionary. I was a simple suggestion because that symbolism is very offputting for a great number of people, but keep trucking along.
The symbolism used by communist parties around the world, both in power and not, is a symbol of working class internationalism that trancends borders. Any genuine socialist is going to be slandered and drug under the dirt anyways, abandoning the socialist movement around the world just to try to kick that can down the road just a tiny bit means throwing away allies. It’s why the TERF movement is worse for cis feminists, and why trans-inclusionary feminism gains more traction.
Honestly, anyone could help Texas. I just met a homeless guy who refused to leave his tent and wore an honest to fuvk tinfoil hat.
His administration could do a lot for Texas. I’ll accuse the dengists of a lot, but, uh… Anything would be a step up from Texas. Give the fuckers a Hapsburg and they’ll do better than they are right now.
China’s socialist market economy, unlike FDR’s New Deal, is commanded by public ownership as the principle aspect of the economy under a proletarian-led and controlled state, unlike FDR’s bourgeois controlled imperialist state. Socialism isn’t simply having safety nets, it’s a mode of production.
Totally, totally. Those are the nets I think of when i think of their production. Very proletarian led, that’s why they need all the cops and censorship.
Those are the nets I think of when i think of their production.
It’s weird how liberals will insist “one county, two systems” is a fiction, then point to a glaring example of Hong Kong labor policy and blame Beijing.
Nevermind the fact that you’re describing Foxcon, a Taiwanese company focused on manufacturing for American and Japanese electronics distributed into Western markets.
That’s the evil Chinese Communism you’re complaining about. No word on when Americans plan to sanction Foxcon for these abhorrent labor practices.
Over 90% of the Chinese citizenry support their system, and the vast majority believe it to be democratic, more confidence than westerners have in their system. Having police and censoring the speech of capitalists is important for upholding the socialist project, especially in its early stages as it is in China.
Honestly if people want communism and socialism to be taken seriously you gotta drop all the soviet imagery.
Tell you what, we’ll stop venerating Actual Existing Socialists when you guys quit dry humping plantation owners and genocidal war mongers.
Get Jefferson of the $20 and I promise never to quote Stalin again.
OK, face of Karl Marx then. The German guy who never even set foot in the USSR.
Oh wait you think that’s bad too.
What about Mao-no.
What about Che Guev-no.
Ho Chi-no.
Venez-no.
What about the Paris commune? No? Still bad in your mind?
Marxist Austria? Nah I’m sure the army that put an end to that is preferable according to you. They called themselves socialist with none of the Soviet imagery after all!
Even if we completely rebranded socialism you’d make it your mission to add the Soviet imagery back in and remind everyone of it. Like y’all do for decidedly capitalist bandaids like student loan forgiveness or food stamps that don’t even have anything to do with socialism.
Americans threw Eugene Debbs in jail for protesting WW1. Americans unleashed the national guard on college campuses at Columbia and Kent State and on anti-homeless activists in Chicago and police reformer in Baltimore and Ferguson and now LA and New Orleans, in an endless war on anyone that even smelled slightly of whatever we’re defining as Marxist of late. These are people who spend God only knows how much money and manpower to put a surveillance dragnet around The Quackers, while screaming from the pulpit about how there’s no such thing as religious freedom anymore.
They brand Donald Trump as a Soviet Socialist. It’s utterly divorced from reality.
Truly.
They are not representative of what any sane person wants.
They absolutely are, they made the world’s first socialist state and that came with dramatic improvements for the working classes. Don’t use ableism.
I don’t even know what to respond to a comment like this except to point out that you are absolutely hurting every cause you say you believe in with rhetoric like this.
done and done. doesn’t work.
done too, doesn’t work either.
None of these have been done.
You’ve done nothing, and pretend it doesnt work.
they have, insistently. and you literally don’t know me.
look into the history of leftist movements, and don’t be an asshole.
Where?
A few people trying to try something doesnt mean they succeeded at trying said things.
I mean, here we are on lemmy where people insist on nonsensical revolutions and have hated the idea of working to change parties; the only pragmatic solution, for ever.
Calling me an asshole implicitly, after asking me to make your argument for you is actual asshole behaviour.
what do you mean where bro. it’s everywhere. south america had a pink wave, and it’s going through another of sorts atm. it’s your continent, how do you not know that. the US is very much biased to the far right, but it’s common in the rest of the world for demsocs to pop up.
entryism has a long history of not going well, either.
look things up instead of being contrarian and coming here just to get angry with people.
I don’t think further conversation on this chain will be productive. Spouting irrelevant rhetoric with strenuous relations while completely neglecting any of the points I’ve made can only go so far.
Also, to call me a contrarian, while being unable to acknowledge that you have a severe marketing issue I think is a great microcosm of the attitudes here.
You feel that being angry and isolated enough will somehow spread change, forgetting that you’re probably in the sub 1% in terms of groups of people, and haven’t made a dent into the other 99%
i literally answered your question very directly and specifically. i cited a rich historical example you could look up and see for yourself.
you too have to want to have a conversation. i agree this chain will not be productive anymore, have a nice day.
Communists have successfully created socialist states through revolution. Throwing socialist states under the bus backfires.
This response doesnt even seem congruent with mine. Im not even sure what you;re responding to here.
He’s responding to your nonsense.
Hey, nobody serious said that one.
I’ll let the various communist parties currently in power in countries like the PRC, Vietnam, etc. to distance themselves from the hammer and sickle, as you don’t personally take them seriously.
Yeah, it’s just me. lol.
I’m not aware of people not taking parties like the CPC, CPV, etc seriously.
Whatever you say.
Okay, cool. I’ll continue to organize with groups that uphold existing socialism, rather than throw it under the bus for an easy rhetorical strategy that has always backfired by legitimizing anti-communist narratives.
Good luck with that. You folks are so reactionary. I was a simple suggestion because that symbolism is very offputting for a great number of people, but keep trucking along.
White people were put off by the civil rights movement. We don’t have the choice to abandon things based on popularity. Plus the symbols are cool.
The symbolism used by communist parties around the world, both in power and not, is a symbol of working class internationalism that trancends borders. Any genuine socialist is going to be slandered and drug under the dirt anyways, abandoning the socialist movement around the world just to try to kick that can down the road just a tiny bit means throwing away allies. It’s why the TERF movement is worse for cis feminists, and why trans-inclusionary feminism gains more traction.
New deal with Chinese characteristics!
President Xi, Liberate My People
#SOSTEXAS
Honestly, anyone could help Texas. I just met a homeless guy who refused to leave his tent and wore an honest to fuvk tinfoil hat.
His administration could do a lot for Texas. I’ll accuse the dengists of a lot, but, uh… Anything would be a step up from Texas. Give the fuckers a Hapsburg and they’ll do better than they are right now.
China’s socialist market economy, unlike FDR’s New Deal, is commanded by public ownership as the principle aspect of the economy under a proletarian-led and controlled state, unlike FDR’s bourgeois controlled imperialist state. Socialism isn’t simply having safety nets, it’s a mode of production.
Totally, totally. Those are the nets I think of when i think of their production. Very proletarian led, that’s why they need all the cops and censorship.
It’s weird how liberals will insist “one county, two systems” is a fiction, then point to a glaring example of Hong Kong labor policy and blame Beijing.
Nevermind the fact that you’re describing Foxcon, a Taiwanese company focused on manufacturing for American and Japanese electronics distributed into Western markets.
That’s the evil Chinese Communism you’re complaining about. No word on when Americans plan to sanction Foxcon for these abhorrent labor practices.
Over 90% of the Chinese citizenry support their system, and the vast majority believe it to be democratic, more confidence than westerners have in their system. Having police and censoring the speech of capitalists is important for upholding the socialist project, especially in its early stages as it is in China.
Sure thing babe. Hey whose numbers are those?