I feel like I understand communist theory pretty well at a basic level, and I believe in it, but I just don’t see what part of it requires belief in an objective world of matter. I don’t believe in matter and I’m still a communist. And it seems that in the 21st century most people believe in materialism but not communism. What part of “people should have access to the stuff they need to live” requires believing that such stuff is real? After all, there are nonmaterial industries and they still need communism. Workers in the music industry are producing something that nearly everyone can agree only exists in our heads. And they’re still exploited by capital, despite musical instruments being relatively cheap these days, because capital owns the system of distribution networks and access to consumers that is the means of profitability for music. Spotify isn’t material, it’s a computer program. It’s information. It’s a thoughtform. Yet it’s still a means of production that ought to be seized for the liberation of the musician worker. What does materialism have to do with any of this?

  • IceWallowCum [he/him]@hexbear.net
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    1 year ago

    Not quite. My problem with your ideas is that I think the material world is a product of the mind

    Yes, the same thing I criticised - the mind preceding material reality, preceded by nothing. Needs springing into existence by themselves and emerging before the material.

    Btw, how does the “the mind creates the material world” point of view analyses, let’s say, groups of native amazonian tribes mostly not wearing any sorts of clothes before first interacting with europeans, or even today? Or the poverty of Haiti, for example?

    Anyway, if you’re really interest in finding arguments and not just adopting a point of view and ending thought right there, this question is maybe the most basic of Marxist-Leninist philosophy. That Vietnam book Luna Oi translated lays it out in very simple language while providing a lot of further sources, so it’s a good place to start, and Bukharin wrote a book that goes a little bit deeper.

    • WithoutFurtherDelay [they/them]@hexbear.net
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      1 year ago

      It’s trying to quote Donald Hoffman but i don’t think it works here

      Donald Hoffman thinks our perception of reality is basically a false matrix which is an effective tool of evolutionary survival. So not only are our perceptions illusory, but likely so is much of our science. Despite that, it’s still useful, because it works within our own interface/simulation of reality.

      Hoffman explained it like a computer GUI, where, it looks like we’re putting a file in the trash bin, but in reality the computer is modifying a bunch of bits and bytes around.

      I think Hoffman’s language when writing their theory fucking sucked and would naturally lead to problems of misunderstanding like this, an issue no doubt caused by the capitalistic incentive towards clickbait and pseudoscientific-adjacent hype.

      They claim multiple times that “reality does not exist”, but at no point make any kind of argument which could assert that. Everything they say merely implies that the human conception of reality is likely a flawed one created for evolutionary advantage and which cannot comprehend large swathes of reality, which checks out, but isn’t nearly as exciting

      Hoffman thinks space and time are illusory, for instance, but not because there’s no underlying mechanics at all and we made everything up from literally nothing. They are illusory because they are a fundamental part of our “interface”, which is illusory, but is also part of us fundamentally interacting with a real world, which has to exist for any of this theory to make sense

      Like a programming library