Like I’m a little worried about this turning into Leftist PizzaGate shit.
I think the difference between leftists exploring Epstein stuff and fascists doing Qanon stuff is that we don’t need it. This case doesn’t fill any void in my life and I don’t feel like a gumshoe about to uncover the grand plot. Dead, alive, homicide or suicide- his fate is completely arbitrary to me. It’s a conspiracy where my default position is and the only meaningful thing to gain from investigating it is a larger list of names.
This case doesn’t fill any void in my life and I don’t feel like a gumshoe about to uncover the grand plot.
I’d be careful cuz I’m sure some of these PizzaGate cranks started out the same way. They were just channers trolling till they talked themselves into their own bullshit.
It’s professional wrestling terminology - back when the art form actively concealed the fact that it was fixed, they developed a bunch of subcultural slang to discuss it, including work/shoot and a bunch of other terms like ‘kayfabe’ - the word for the practice of maintaining the illusion that pro wrestling was real.
I remember visiting r/CBTS_stream within a few days of its creation, the moment Qanon went beyond 4chan where it was just one more user doing that kind of posting. Even with less than 100 people in the subreddit, I immediately knew it was something different and dangerous because those people were desperate. Their voice chatrooms were the most depressing place I’ve been online- boomers chainsmoking and falling asleep on mic while trying to impress each other by finding a new clue. Their posts instantly fused Trump with Evangelical prayer threads with all of the existing Obama-era conspiracies in a way that made every contribution equally valid and every contributor a genius. People assumed that Q was at least a CIA agent, if not Trump himself getting on reddit to talk to his secret friends in code. Whenever I ran a user analyser on the subscribers, unless they had a new account it always had the saddest results in terms of subscriptions and posts. Qanon and Pizzagate are psychosexual things. They’re paedophiles who want to feel strong and smart and morally righteous by stopping the paedophiles they support.
Russiagate is less psychosexual, but there’s still a deep need driving it. Liberals can’t imagine being anything other than institutionalists and can’t accept that those institutions don’t serve them. They spent the entire first Trump term begging for anyone in the system to and say “mr president, your russia sir.”. The only thing that could explain the state of the US was that we secretly became a bunch of Asians overnight. The only thing that could explain any dissenting voice online was that they personally were being stalked by every bad guy in a James Bond film.
Both of those are hardcore Millerite movements. They gave an outsized sense of importance to the users who had nothing else to believe in, purely a skinner box that you press to remove cognitive dissonance. They insisted that all of the contradictions would be erased overnight and that some form of utopia would come after the promised one delivered us. We’d finally drain the swamp, we’d finally return to a good president leading a noble empire. It all hinged on hypothetical documents that only existed if the core conspiracy did.
With Epstein everything is already there and no one email is going to crack the case. The only time things actually shift is when another group of documents is released, and the only way they shift is that another group of people I already think should be guillotined for other reasons is implicated further. I don’t expect the republicans to save the day any more than I do the democrats any more than I do the institutions. If it comes out today that he’s still alive, I don’t expect that to change anything about the case for the same reason Maxwell being alive hasn’t. If every single name in the files is given a death penalty it won’t change anything because it’s just one more reason to hate the same class and they’ll all be replaced tomorrow. The built-in scepticism toward anyone doing anything about it is where it’s different for me. At least on Hexbear I haven’t seen anyone under the illusion that the dam is about to break or that we can make that happen through pure willpower. It’s much closer to True Crime Slop, just an empty Two Minutes’ Hate, than it is Qanon.
Ya i made a post musing about being careful not to drive ourselves insane with epstein conspiracies. As the other commenter mentioned, we don’t actually need these conspiracies to prove our worldview. Although mentioning them in brief can potentially be a good propaganda tool at an individual level, perhaps.
Personally I don’t think it’s likely, but that 4chan post being linked to the IP of an actual guard working at the facility at the time, and possibly this means that skepticism and questioning ‘accepted facts’ aren’t illogical positions
imo speculation is fine even good, as long as people don’t over-focus on it, and make it their whole personality, and all they talk about which is one of the many problems with QAnoners/Pizzagaters
Ten years from now...
"CIA admits to joint operation with Mossad that included faking Epstein's death and spiriting him back to Little St. James Island, where he rides around in a golf cart in disguise"
That’s not how schizophrenia is precipitated. Schizophrenic delusions are highly personal, e.g. “I literally am Jeffrey Epstein” or “CIA agents are stalking my home because I know too much about Epstein”. They differ fundamentally from “ordinary” conspiracy theories.
I’m using the word clinically, not as an ableist pejorative. I have loved ones with the illness.
I wouldn’t know what to call it, but it is defiantly a thing, people getting a bit too deep into weird stuff on the internet to the point it starts negatively affecting their lives.
Yeah, it’s like a leftist ghost story about the Great Man who escaped death to personally dab on us.
It’s his role as an agent and facilitator for Power that mattered, not himself. It would be injust for him to be alive - but so what! What a tiny thing! Does anything change with or without him?
Can it be proven, proven? Does it lend authenticity, trust, reliability, to the leftist perspective? No! There is arguing over the flaccidity of a fucking earlobe!
Raise the possibility, fine. Enjoy a little speculation. But without evidence, real evidence treated dispassionately, there must be no solid conclusions. What Is To Be Done doesn’t change one bit, so incorporating weak arguments only dissipates energies. And thus Power wrings some more use out of him.
I’m still very skeptical of this “Epstein is ALIVE!” shit.
Like I’m a little worried about this turning into Leftist PizzaGate shit.
There is like a 0.1% he’s alive in Israel based on the evidence I’ve currently seen.
I think the difference between leftists exploring Epstein stuff and fascists doing Qanon stuff is that we don’t need it. This case doesn’t fill any void in my life and I don’t feel like a gumshoe about to uncover the grand plot. Dead, alive, homicide or suicide- his fate is completely arbitrary to me. It’s a conspiracy where my default position is
and the only meaningful thing to gain from investigating it is a larger list of names.
I’d be careful cuz I’m sure some of these PizzaGate cranks started out the same way. They were just channers trolling till they talked themselves into their own bullshit.
don’t work yourself into a shoot
A what now?
a work is a fake fight presented as real, a shoot is a real fight that was supposed to be fake
wtf are you and old timey boxing coach? Are you saying this to Rocky before he goes back in the ring?
It’s professional wrestling terminology - back when the art form actively concealed the fact that it was fixed, they developed a bunch of subcultural slang to discuss it, including work/shoot and a bunch of other terms like ‘kayfabe’ - the word for the practice of maintaining the illusion that pro wrestling was real.
I remember visiting r/CBTS_stream within a few days of its creation, the moment Qanon went beyond 4chan where it was just one more user doing that kind of posting. Even with less than 100 people in the subreddit, I immediately knew it was something different and dangerous because those people were desperate. Their voice chatrooms were the most depressing place I’ve been online- boomers chainsmoking and falling asleep on mic while trying to impress each other by finding a new clue. Their posts instantly fused Trump with Evangelical prayer threads with all of the existing Obama-era conspiracies in a way that made every contribution equally valid and every contributor a genius. People assumed that Q was at least a CIA agent, if not Trump himself getting on reddit to talk to his secret friends in code. Whenever I ran a user analyser on the subscribers, unless they had a new account it always had the saddest results in terms of subscriptions and posts. Qanon and Pizzagate are psychosexual things. They’re paedophiles who want to feel strong and smart and morally righteous by stopping the paedophiles they support.
Russiagate is less psychosexual, but there’s still a deep need driving it. Liberals can’t imagine being anything other than institutionalists and can’t accept that those institutions don’t serve them. They spent the entire first Trump term begging for anyone in the system to
and say “mr president, your russia sir.”. The only thing that could explain the state of the US was that we secretly became a bunch of Asians overnight. The only thing that could explain any dissenting voice online was that they personally were being stalked by every bad guy in a James Bond film.
Both of those are hardcore Millerite movements. They gave an outsized sense of importance to the users who had nothing else to believe in, purely a skinner box that you press to remove cognitive dissonance. They insisted that all of the contradictions would be erased overnight and that some form of utopia would come after the promised one delivered us. We’d finally drain the swamp, we’d finally return to a good president leading a noble empire. It all hinged on hypothetical documents that only existed if the core conspiracy did.
With Epstein everything is already there and no one email is going to crack the case. The only time things actually shift is when another group of documents is released, and the only way they shift is that another group of people I already think should be guillotined for other reasons is implicated further. I don’t expect the republicans to save the day any more than I do the democrats any more than I do the institutions. If it comes out today that he’s still alive, I don’t expect that to change anything about the case for the same reason Maxwell being alive hasn’t. If every single name in the files is given a death penalty it won’t change anything because it’s just one more reason to hate the same class and they’ll all be replaced tomorrow. The built-in scepticism toward anyone doing anything about it is where it’s different for me. At least on Hexbear I haven’t seen anyone under the illusion that the dam is about to break or that we can make that happen through pure willpower. It’s much closer to True Crime Slop, just an empty Two Minutes’ Hate, than it is Qanon.
Ya i made a post musing about being careful not to drive ourselves insane with epstein conspiracies. As the other commenter mentioned, we don’t actually need these conspiracies to prove our worldview. Although mentioning them in brief can potentially be a good propaganda tool at an individual level, perhaps.
Personally I don’t think it’s likely, but that 4chan post being linked to the IP of an actual guard working at the facility at the time, and possibly this means that skepticism and questioning ‘accepted facts’ aren’t illogical positions
imo speculation is fine even good, as long as people don’t over-focus on it, and make it their whole personality, and all they talk about which is one of the many problems with QAnoners/Pizzagaters
To me this smells more like a coverup of an assassination, but I moved on to the actual living pedophiles.
I don’t see what there is to worry about, we can’t do shit about it and it affects nothing we do.
I’m just worried about people going down rabbit holes. No one is immune to getting paranoid on the internet
That’s not how schizophrenia is precipitated. Schizophrenic delusions are highly personal, e.g. “I literally am Jeffrey Epstein” or “CIA agents are stalking my home because I know too much about Epstein”. They differ fundamentally from “ordinary” conspiracy theories.
I’m using the word clinically, not as an ableist pejorative. I have loved ones with the illness.
Apologies. Edited.
I wouldn’t know what to call it, but it is defiantly a thing, people getting a bit too deep into weird stuff on the internet to the point it starts negatively affecting their lives.
Delusions are what I think you want, and it isn’t specific to any diagnosis.
deleted by creator
You should very much be worried about having an incorrect analysis. If communists have neither power nor a correct analysis, we have literally nothing
Yeah, it’s like a leftist ghost story about the Great Man who escaped death to personally dab on us.
It’s his role as an agent and facilitator for Power that mattered, not himself. It would be injust for him to be alive - but so what! What a tiny thing! Does anything change with or without him?
Can it be proven, proven? Does it lend authenticity, trust, reliability, to the leftist perspective? No! There is arguing over the flaccidity of a fucking earlobe!
Raise the possibility, fine. Enjoy a little speculation. But without evidence, real evidence treated dispassionately, there must be no solid conclusions. What Is To Be Done doesn’t change one bit, so incorporating weak arguments only dissipates energies. And thus Power wrings some more use out of him.
Mods. Add “Great Man” to the slur filter.
Well said
I’m a centrist (I think he was probably/possibly murdered)