• w3dd1e@lemmy.zip
    34·
    2 天前

    Aside from the homophobia, they still get birthday cakes with candles that say their age when they are 24?

  • HertzDentalBar@lemmy.blahaj.zoneEnglish
    74·
    2 天前

    Just going to say that looks way more gay than the number 24…

    The more you try to avoid looking gay, the more gay you look. It’s funny coming from a place as gay as Brazil.

    • melfie@lemmy.zip
      10·
      2 天前

      If you’re not gay, you must prove it by wearing a birthday tiara and listening to nothing but Judy Garland the whole day.

  • irate944@piefed.socialEnglish
    156·
    2 天前

    Me: There’s no way that’s true

    Me, after web searching: Huh…

    Context: They have a betting game called “Jogo do bicho” (Animal game, direct translation). Number 24 corresponds to deer, which is “veado” in portuguese - which is very similar to"viado", which is a slur for gay people persons.

    I still doubt these candles are popular though.

      • Regular Water@lemmy.eco.br
        2·
        9 小时前

        É literalmente uma idiotice que tem aqui em Salvador (Não sei se surgiu aqui), vinte e quatro / vim de quatro

        It’s literally an idiocy that has here in Salvador (I don’t know if it came from here), twenty-four / I came from four

    • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
      108·
      2 天前

      Number 24 corresponds to deer, which is “veado” in portuguese - which is very similar to"viado", which is a slur for gay people persons.

      The slur isn’t just similar to the name of the critter — it is the name of the critter. You also see people using “gazela” (gazelle), “Bambi” (that Disney critter), “biba saltitante” (jumping… “biba”, dunno what was supposed to be) as slurs for gay people, always under the “flamboyantly jumping” stereotype.

      The reason it gets spelled with an “i” is that slurs and swearing often get misspelled in Portuguese. It’s the same deal with boceta→buceta (pussy), caralho→caraio→carai (dick), foder→fuder→fudê (to fuck).

      • brown567@sh.itjust.works
        4·
        1 天前

        The linguist in me now feels the same way about Brazilian profanity that the engineer in me feels about fighter jets

        • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
          3·
          22 小时前

          It gets weirder with expletives. Like “puta merda” whore shit and “merda do caralho” shit from the dick. They don’t make sense at all, people simply chain whatever profanity they find to “express” their frustration. (And you can even combine them, as “puta merda do caralho” whore shit from the dick. Semantically it’s nuts.)

      • irate944@piefed.socialEnglish
        35·
        2 天前

        Thanks for the explanation mate, that makes a lot more sense.

        I’m portuguese and I always thought that veado was the word, just that “e” was “stressed” to sound like “i”. I didn’t know until today that there were actually two words

        • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
          24·
          2 天前

          Some prescriptivists would argue “viado” isn’t an actual word, and that even the slur should be spelled “veado”. But just like “buceta” the misspelling has become way more popular than the original word.

      • hraegsvelmir@ani.social
        6·
        2 天前

        It’s only the same if you ignore Portuguese pronunciation, though, this is still some rightwing snowflake shit. Veado and viado will only sound the same if you speak some ignorant, backwater version of Brazilian Portuguese, so I’m not sure what you’re talking about.

        Viado e veado não soam igual, mano, esse é coisa de homens frágeis, eu não sei de que você tá falando. Deixe essa porra pros Bolsonaristas. Nem os tugas falam assim.

        • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
          13·
          2 天前

          For people who might be tempted to trust the witch hunting liar above, check the transcriptions in Wiktionary for veado and viado. Both lists are incomplete but they already show, that what I’m saying is accurate, and that the user above is at the very least lying, if not worse (vomiting assumptions and re-eating their own vomit).

          Also relevant to note I’m reporting words associated with prejudice. I’m not condoning their usage. The way I’m referring to gay people and their community ITT is consistently polite, even if I’m talking about a slur used to target those folks. Gay rights — much like trans rights — are human rights; rights depend on power, power depends on knowledge. That applies to slurs; one can only fight against prejudice if they know how it’s conveyed, and how words associated with prejudice pop up.

          It’s only the same if you ignore Portuguese pronunciation
          Viado e veado não soam igual, [viado and veado don’t sound the same]
          Nem os tugas falam assim. [not even the Portuguese speak like this]

          Portuguese pronunciation varies a lot depending on the region. There isn’t a “single” one, like you’re implying; that’s fiction created by nationalists who believe languages should be homogeneous.

          For “veado” you’ll see the [e] being raised to [i] or [j] in three situations:

          • Caipira, Paulistano, Sulista, Mineiro, Gaúcho dialects; mostly due to pre-stressed vowel raising. Typically people doing so also say “bisoro” (besouro), “tisora” (tesoura), “minino” (menino), “durmi” (dormir) and similar, as it’s the same underlying change.
          • Widespread across Portugal, but specially in the Centre and North. The fast prosody of unstressed syllables triggers diphthongisation, so you get something like ['jV] for more conservative [e.'V] and [i.'V].
          • Speakers of many other dialects in fast speech. The underlying process is similar to the above.

          You’re lying.

          this is still some rightwing snowflake shit

          No, it is not. Learn to read then stop being a liar / an assumer.

          But you know, what’s rightwing shit? This:

          Veado and viado will only sound the same if you speak some ignorant, backwater version of Brazilian Portuguese

          You’re oozing linguistic prejudice, rooted in nationalism (the myth of homogeneous language), further mixed with classism (“backwater”). What you’re saying is the same as “my Reichsprache has a single pronunciation, everyone else is an ignorant degenerating it!”, it doesn’t get more disgusting than that.

          so I’m not sure what you’re talking about.
          eu não sei de que você tá falando.

          If you don’t get what others say, you don’t get to label it either, unless you’re a disingenuous / assumptive piece of shit and deserve to be treated as such.

          But the concept of honesty is a wee bit too complex for you, innit? Bloody hell.

        • lacaio 🇧🇷🏴‍☠️🇸🇴@lemmy.eco.brEnglish
          10·
          2 天前

          Viado es veado. Fuck this

          Even if it sounded different it wouldn’t make a difference, because language is flexible and undefined, or are we going to take classes on how to talk “e” or “i” as well? I’m certain we need more of those 🙄

          • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
            2·
            19 小时前

            100% isso.

            Em especial, essa “flexibilidade” aparece bastante pras vogais átonas, variam muito de acordo com o dialeto e o ritmo da fala. E ao contrário da variação nas consoantes, as pessoas não prestam muita atenção nelas.

            I’m fairly sure what happened with “viado” in PT was just like “nigga” in English. In both you get a non-standard spelling of another word (“veado” and “nigger”), representing a popular pronunciation of the word (note African American English is non-rhotic, so ⟨er⟩ and ⟨a⟩ would sound both /ə/). But they still sound the same in those popular variations.

            Pior que acho que o outro ali nem fala português. Ao menos, não proficientemente. Reparou como ele confundiu “esse” com “isso”?

    • TrackinDaKraken@lemmy.worldEnglish
      44·
      2 天前

      They’re popular enough for them to have been mass-produced, as opposed to, say, just writing the text on the cake with frosting.

    • Hudell@lemmy.dbzer0.comEnglish
      10·
      2 天前

      That’s not the reason though. 24 (vinte e quatro) is the gay number because it sounds like “vim de quatro” which means something like “I came on all 4s”

    • marcos@lemmy.world
      7·
      2 天前

      It’s a very popular joke. I have no idea how many people take it seriously, since those would probably not say they do.

      I imagine most people that buy a candle like that do it for somebody else’s birthday to imply the other person is gay.

  • Gork@sopuli.xyz
    96·
    2 天前

    Straight men have a 23+1 hr schedule every day. The extra hour is for secret gay time.

  • Bazell@lemmy.zip
    28·
    2 天前

    Can someone share some lore what is the connection between being gay and 24 in Brazil?

    • Peruvian_Skies@sh.itjust.works
      76·
      2 天前

      There’s an illegal gambling game that has been extremely popular for decades called the animal game (jogo do bicho), in which each number represents an animal. 24 is the deer (veado). There’s also a derogatory word for gay men, viado. The two words sound the same. So 24 is “the deer’s number” but it sounds like “the fag’s number”.

      Viado comes from desviado, which means someone who was driven off the proper path. It’s just a matter of homophony (and homophobia).

      • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
        2·
        22 小时前

        Viado comes from desviado, which means someone who was driven off the proper path. It’s just a matter of homophony (and homophobia).

        I’ve seen people backtracking the etymology to desviado and transviado. I don’t buy it because clipping (truncamento) in Portuguese usually preserves the start of the word, even at the expense of the stressed syllable; e.g.

        • universidade university → uni
        • refrigerante fizz, soda, coke, pop → refri
        • depressivo depressed → deprê

        So following the same pattern for “desviado” the result would be *des or *desvi, not “viado”.

        • Peruvian_Skies@sh.itjust.works
          2·
          8 小时前

          The explanation may be as simple as that the word works better as an expletive by keeping the stressed syllable. All the examples you gave are “friendly” clippings but “viado” is derogatory.

          • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
            1·
            5 小时前

            I think it also applies to expletives. Check for example ⟨vagabunda⟩* /va.ga.'bũ.da/; if there was some pressure to keep the stressed syllable it would be clipped into *bunda or *gabunda, but it’s usually clipped into ⟨vagaba⟩ instead. Technically the /b/ from the stressed syllable is still there, but the core /ũ/ ⟨un⟩ is gone.

            *gotta explain this one to the folks here. “Vagabunda” means whore, promiscuous woman, etc. It’s highly offensive, way more than the nearest English equivalent (slut), it’s the sort of word to not use even in a joke. (The masculine “vagabundo” is depreciative but socially acceptable — it means lazy arse, do-nothing.)

        • webp@mander.xyz
          3·
          2 天前

          This suggests widespread homophobia if enough of them could combine their brainpower to form these few thoughts

          • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
            2·
            22 小时前

            This suggests widespread homophobia if enough of them could combine their brainpower to form these few thoughts

            Yup, that’s accurate. Welcome to Latin America and its macho culture. People don’t even get why those jokes are bad. Then when the LGBTQ+ community correctly points out that “a piada mata mais do que a bala” (the joke kills more often than the bullet), the default popular reaction is to claim “waaah they’re overreacting” (spoilers: they aren’t).

    • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
      27·
      2 天前

      I shared it ITT, but basically:

      There’s that stereotype of gay people being flamboyant, and often hopping in excitement. That created a bunch of associations between hopping animals and gay people; e.g. “gazela” (gazelle), “bicha saltitante” (jumping/hopping beast), but specially “veado” (deer). Often spelled as “viado”.

      And there’s a gambling lottery called “jogo do bicho” (critters’ game, or animals’ game). Illegal but extremely popular, to the point some knowledge of the game is part of the popular culture. It associates 25 animals with numbers, and #24 is “veado” / deer.

      So: if 24 is veado, and veado is gay, then 24 is gay. Plop it into a macho culture, much like in the rest of Latin America, and you’ll see people avoiding the number. Even for their birthdays.

      Nowadays it’s mostly a joke; but frankly I don’t like it, it still treats gay people negatively, as if “gay” was “to be avoided”. Roughly in the same level as “we did $thing but no homo!” in English, you know?

      • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
        2·
        21 小时前

        For that pair of words (ES año vs. PT ano) this works, but note the correspondence gets really messy, it depends on the etymology of the word. A quick run-down would be:

        Origin Spanish Portuguese Example
        Late Latin */nj/ /ɲ/ ⟨ñ⟩ /ɲ/ ⟨nh⟩ Latin balneum → baneum → *banjʊ̃ → ES baño, PT banho “bath”
        Latin /gn/ [ŋn] /ɲ/ ⟨ñ⟩ /ɲ/ ⟨nh⟩ can’t recall an example both kept, but Latin agnum → PT anho /ɲ/ “lamb” (archaic)
        Latin /n:/ /ɲ/ ⟨ñ⟩ /n/ ⟨n⟩ Latin annum → ES año, PT ano “year”

        Then for Latin intervocalic /n/ Spanish simply keeps it. Portuguese initially converts it into vowel nasalisation, but then changes it further on, it’s a bit messy:

        • corōnam /n/ → ES corona /n/, PT corõa /Ṽ/→coroa Ø “crown”
        • pīnum /n/ → ES pino /n/, PT pĩo /Ṽ/→pinho /ɲ/ “pine”
        • manum /n/ → ES mano /n/, PT mão /Ṽ/ “hand”

        For ES “ano” anus and PT “ânus” anus this doesn’t work, though. Portuguese didn’t inherit the word, but reborrowed it. And perhaps to avoid making it sound like “ano” (year), kept the Latin nominative ending. (If the word was inherited it would end as *ão or something like this.)

      • idiomaddict@lemmy.world
        7·
        2 天前

        Portuguese doesn’t really have a tilde, but that’s what the h following an n (or an L) is there to indicate

        • Lvxferre [he/him]@mander.xyz
          1·
          22 小时前

          It does have a tilde but it’s mostly used over vowels, to represent nasalisation; e.g.

          • ⟨mão⟩ /mãw/ [mɜ̃ʊ̯̃] “hand” vs. ⟨mau⟩ /maw/ [mäʊ̯] “bad”
          • ⟨mãe⟩ /mãj/ [mɜ̃ɪ̯̃] “mother”
          • ⟨limões⟩ /li’mõjs/ [li.'mõɪ̯̃s] “lemons”
          • ⟨vã⟩ /vã/ [vɜ̃] “vain” (F)

          For /ɲ/ (the phoneme written “ñ” in Spanish) it’s as you said, though: it’s spelled “nh” instead.