The imaginary entity known as ‘the state’ cannot give permission to someone to enter your house.
What they can do is authorize state-sponsored violence to enter anyway.
If vampires are bound by invitation, a warrant would be useless.
Such an obvious answer. What they could do though is just wait outside until you have to leave. You know, like ICE
No they may NOT enter without permission, the laws of vampiredom supersede mortal law.
But if property rights are a construct of the state, and a judge is acting as a representative of the state, wouldn’t the warent serve as permission from the progenitor of the property?
Only if you consider the state as legitimate. Depending on the story it’s also not that they must have an invitation from the owner of whatever dwelling they wish to enter, but the invitation of anyone residing within.
Its personal property rights. The vampire must ask the tenant not the landlord to be invited into the apartment.
That or it could be as simple as any human on the other side of the threshold. Traditionally vampires or sort of autistic. Throw beans at them and they must stop to pick up each one.
If you live in a shared house and your roommate invites the vampire in, do you have to be polite and go say hello or can you stay in your room?
But if property rights are a construct of the state, and a judge is acting as a representative of the state, wouldn’t the warent serve as permission from the progenitor of the property?
I think it just comes down to which you think came first. If your version of vampires emerged after the creation of states (say, they were like Roman or something) then their rules would likely respect the authority of the state due to someone’s willing participation in its authority.
If your version of vampires are pre-historical, then no. The state is a construct that has no bearing on individuals.
The Vampire Diaries universe does follow the authority of the state and they play around with it in fun ways. Like they’ll transfer the deed to a property to someone else to reset who’s allowed to enter the house. I have a hazy memory that one time someone had a house foreclosed on so they’d be able to enter. I’m not sure about warrants though.
If they’re respecting deeds, then by proxy they’d have to respect a warrant since both of those derive their legitimacy through the state
I think so too. Also notably to your first comment, in the vampire diaries universe the first generation of vampires were in like the 10th century, so some concept of a state, property rights, and the ability of the state to take away property rights did exist.
Every time I hear someone talk about Vampire Diaries lore I get closer to watching it despite the CW ness, I love a show that plays with the details of its lore like that.
I highly recommend The Originals, it’s one of the spinoff shows and follows the 3 first generation vampires in New Orleans and is a bit more serious and adult than TVD or the other spinoff. It’s the only one I’ve actually watched all the way through.
If they ask for permission from some random on the street and they say yes that’s counts? What in the law of vampiredom decides who can gives permission? If is the owner of said house, only the landlord can gives the permission?
What if the vampire is the landlord?
“Local garou pack vandalize building to bring down property values.”
Then you find out that there weren’t even any garou there and the vampire paid off the local Fox affiliate to make some up.
Edit:
Tren de a garou
Then in that case technically the vampire has given the victim permission to enter and it’s more of a visiting Dracula’s castle situation
And then what if 35% of all homes are actually owned by vampires and the vampires are continuously buying up more and more of the total housing stock?
Gosh, what a silly fictional hypothetical about fictional creatures.
If vampires are bound by the laws of the state then they couldn’t murder you.
I think magic operates on storytelling logic, not legal logic, so the Vampire would have to get permission even if they were the landlord because it’s “your” house.
Landlords even need permission.
Landlords are vampires confirmed?
They are bloodsuckers, yes.
Your house or your home? It feels right that it would be based on occupancy rather than ownership. What if someone was staying with you and you gave them a room in a shared house - the vampire could potentially get into the main house but then not enter that particular room?
I think that’s the correct distinction. They need an invitation into the home. A house is a dead object void of humanity, a home isn’t. A house can either be uninhabited or inhabited, but a home is only ever inhabited. Even though the landlord owns the property and it’s house, it isn’t their home.
It’s mediated through societal convention like how a man cave or the garage “belongs” to the husband even though ownership of those two room is actually determined by who owns the deed of the house in which the rooms are located in. A cool edge case would be if the vampire gets invitation from the husband but the husband and wife immediately have a big fight afterwards, perhaps over inviting a vampire over, and agreed to divorce with the husband and wife doing the thing long-term couples that break up do of partitioning their home and sleeping in their own partition (ie the man sleeping on the couch). Does the vampire still has have access to the whole house or are they now restricted to just the husband’s partition of the house?
Eminent domain.
eminent domain expansion
I had a similar conversation about a scene in some teen vampire show where a new vampire can’t get into his apartment because he lives alone. My argument was that a lease is pretty explicitly an invitation to enter a place, so the entire metaphysics of the show is fucked. If there’s one thing vampire rules should account for it’s a let of property by a lord.
No, but if you have a welcome mat, that’s a passive invitation.
Me repelling vampires with my magical “fuck off” mat
Explicitly no, because what a search warrant actually does is say that the police do not need your permission to enter. If they didn’t have a warrant they could ask you to let them in so they could skip the paperwork and if you voluntarily allow them in anything they find can be used as evidence even without the warrant.
But does that count as a Judge giving them explicit permission to enter?
It’s not the judge’s house by virtue of the fact that he does not occupy it. The vampire needs the occupant’s permission to enter, not some rando.
No it’s a judge saying the police don’t need permission. Not a judge saying they have permission.
If permission -> can enter
Becomes
can enter
But that only applies to the cop. The judge can’t magically allieve the rules a vampire is held to.
I think this could be mostly resolved if you start with a much simpler case. If I have guests over and one of them answers the door, can they let a vampire in?
My understanding of normal vampire lore is that yes, they could, because it’s not a question of ownership or any human idea of authority beyond just a person inside saying they can also come inside. Therefore, the vampire is not able to enter even with a warrant unless you let it in yourself.
If a vampire cop can enter with a warrant, then a vampire count would be able to enter any residence in their county, right? Pretty sure that’s not how that works.
What happens if a vampire declares a microstate that includes your house? What’s to stop any vampire from declaring themselves emperor of the world and disregarding the rule entirely?
Iirc there’s a scene in the original Dracula book where Renfield invites him in while a patient at an asylum, where he didn’t have ownership or legal authority.
Has to be “of the household” by Dracula rules.
Bram stokers Dracula is such a fun read. Starts out with the worlds most oblivious Englishman, ends with a party consisting of a mad doctor in charge of an insane asylum, a gun toting Yankee, a Dutchman wrapped in garlic, a power couple and I think one guy more?
Vampire or not,
I think vampires have to be invited, and even if a cop has a warrant I’m not inviting them into my house. They’ll have to bust the door down.
I guess their partner could break down the door and then invite the vampire in because the warrant gives the partner legal authority to be in the house.
So, they need a cop Familiar.
Hmmm, Hog Familiar would be interesting for my next DnD sesh
So, based on the differing bits of lore, it depends on whether the vampire believes in the rule.
Truth Nuke
me expelling every single vampire to outer space by declaring the world is my home with the ground the floor and the sky the ceiling
Do you not see vampires when you use mirror camera, but do see them in dslr? Isn’t this like discrimination of vintage mirror camera users, I think vampire community should seriously consider this and post psa for photo enthusiasts
As long as it doesn’t have silver in it. They aren’t visible in mirrors because mirrors are traditionally made of silver
finally, i can use ye olde tin mirror for something (but isn’t large portion of cheap mirrors actually aluminium anyway?)
DSLR is a mirror camera, the R is for the reflex mirror that means the light in the viewfinder is the same axis of light that hits the sensor, you might mean mirrorless instead of DSLR?
ah yes i’ve tried to remember the name of the thingy without swingout mirror, thought they became standard and still called dslr
Two possible answers:
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No, because they have to be invited in. Having a paper from someone outside the house is not the same as being invited in. Otherwise they could also just go to any rando and give them 10$ if the rando says the vampire is allowed in your home.
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Possibly yes, if you perceive the court as legitimate and you would normally consider a cop with a warrant to be “invited” in your home. Sort of like how an atheist vampire won’t get burned by the cross, an anarchist or a sovereign citizen would be free from the vampire-cop warrant-menace. This would also depend on what the warrant stated (if it merely says they don’t have to ask for permission, then that won’t work, it must say they are allowed in) and what type of vampire we are dealing with.
So, what does the lore say about communist vampires?
I’ve actually never read a story about a communist vampire, I wonder what would be their cross. I suppose it depends on what tendency the vampire would belong to.
There’s an old Dr Who episode where a bunch of vampires get driven off by a Soviet soldier’s hammer and sickle emblem because the Soviet soldier believes in communism.
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