Organizing requires meeting people where they are, not where you want them to be. If you expect everyone to hold acceptable lines on every issue before they engage with your org, you will remain relegated to the furthest margins. This doesn’t mean you should concede points or adopt reactionary positions (tailism), especially when protecting marginalized identities of comrades. It simply means that peoples reactionary positions are responded to politely and on a personal level, without an unrealistic expectation of overnight change. Think of how you would want to be corrected if a comrade saw an error in your line, or even how you would want to be corrected by a colleague at work if you were making a mistake. try to treat people expressing reactionary ideas in this way, Even when it is absurdly obvious to you that they are wrong and even hurtful in what they are saying. It is not obvious to them, so treat them with patience and respect.
Public humiliation, exclusion from spaces and performative debate tend make your space unwelcoming to newcomers. People see these things and become uncomfortable speaking In your spaces, fearing they might say something wrong and be subjected to the same treatment. This is not a good thing. If the masses don’t participate in your revolutionary project, it isn’t successful. Public humiliation or exclusion from spaces might be appropriate when dealing with people who are obviously arguing in bad faith, engaged in behavior that is deeply and actively harmful etc. however it should be a tactic of last resort, not a go to one.
The cadre I work with is focused on providing mutual aid to and organizing with the precariously employed informal economy workers in a rather poor rural area. Probably 40% of that demographic either voted for trump at least once or would have voted for trump if they could be bothered to vote. Probably 80% are at least somewhat transphobic. And that’s just scratching the surface of the anti communism, bigotry and reactionary brain worms we are working through. The bipoc women we work with tend to have the least reactionary brain worms (surprising almost no one) yet they are not immune in the slightest. I’ll talk the most about the transphobia because that perhaps the most widespread form of reactionary views. The way I personally handle transphobic statements is to talk to the person who said the statement about how it made me feel (or how it might make others feel). The way I approach such a conversation varies based on the specific issue and the person im talking to. I will set hard boundaries at times, depending on context, but will more often be patient. One older logger took multiple months before he would use my correct pronouns and now asks peoples pronouns preemptively. The only thing I have found to deprogram peoples bigotry is to get them to respect the very openly trans inclusive/anti racist etc folks on a personal as well as political level, by proving we are principled, helpful, friendly and genuinely care about our collective liberation.
Revolutionary organizing is a cyclical process of learning. some “communists” seem to think the task of a cadre is to study theory and then take said theory to the masses in a dumbed down form, thus showing them the correct path to their liberation. This is incorrect and you will be rejected by the majority of the masses as out of touch weirdos if not outright hucksters. Without revolutionary theory there is no revolutionary action and without revolutionary action there is no revolutionary theory. There are only empty, untested ideas. Revolutionary study must always include going to the masses and learning from the masses. Challenge the theory you read in books against what you learn about material conditions when you engage with the masses. Synthesize both to analyze your specific material conditions. Then test your analysis through your activities where you are engaged with the masses. The relationship between an organization and the masses it is engaged with is a reciprocal one of mutual learning, where you work together to learn how you might successfully do a communist revolution in your current material conditions, which is a fundamentally experimental question.
tbh, when i started doing organizing shit irl, this exact disparity between the real world and online left spaces like this one is what made me more and more alienated from the latter. internet leftism is fundamentally built upon posturing (and on hexbear specifically, generally this means posturing as the purest, most righteous exemplar of your belief system there is).
and it makes sense: in spaces where all you have is anonymous words combined with inaction, what else are you left with? but this leads to a toxic dynamic where there’s a lot of arrogant, hostile venting of one’s own powerlessness onto others, and/or leads to folks turning completely understandable trauma & pain from oppression indiscriminately outward.
but we are not better or more pure than the rest of our class because of our politics. we have the luck & mixed blessing of being exposed to the right combination of material conditions, personal experiences, and educational resources that led us to certain beliefs, that’s all. if a few things in our life stories were different, we’d also be reactionary “treatlerites.” and while there are members of our class who are too far gone, if we can make just a few things different for working people who are maybe currently on the wrong path, we can get them on our side (or at least, partway there).
Thank you that was a good read. I’m no organizer but I can attest to how effective just being personable is for deprogramming people. It is our duty as communists to be charming!
how effective just being personable is for deprogramming people
speak on it! i think this is really what the Trueanon podcast was getting at with the “be normal” catchphrase we have half a struggle session about on here every other week (or at least that’s the charitable reading). it really just means don’t be antisocial (in the “hostile/socially destructive/insular & myopic & solipsistic” sense of the word, not antisocial as in “shy or introverted”)
as long as you can learn to get along with, relate to, and moreoever fucking listen to normal working class people, then you can be as quirked up a motherfucker as you want. it really does boil down to, idk, just trying your best to be empathetic and decent toward and interested in others.
I agree with the spirit of the “be normal rule” but it’s too vague in itself and easily leads to misunderstandings. Personally I have faced little abuse relating to my identity and frequently talk to bigoted people, but I have friends who literally can’t “be normal” to a bigoted person due to the trauma response they experience when talking to someone who could be their abuser.
“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs” is true for organizing as well. Our burden is a shared one, and not everyone has the ability to organize bigoted people. I think that everyone should learn how to talk with working class reactionaries (as long as they don’t face an immediate danger) but I’m also empathetic that for some people their qualities lay elsewhere and thus they take up roles that allow them to not have to interact with reactionary people much.
I’m rambling a bit and my mind is half asleep but my point is that it’s understandable for people to push back when they are told to “be normal” when talking to bigoted people, when they have been abused by these people. So we should not expect marginalised people to put themselves in harms way, and be clear about that, while still saying that these reactionaries should be talked to by comrades who can do so relatively safely.
yeah you make a lot of good points. when we throw “be normal” around it’s so devoid of its original context that i’m sympathetic to the view that maybe we should just avoid saying it. i just think there’s good advice at the core of it that should be teased out, and then maybe we should say what it actually was meant to mean (“be prosocial, be grounded, be empathetic”) instead.
“From each according to his ability, to each according to his needs” is true for organizing as well. Our burden is a shared one, and not everyone has the ability to organize bigoted people. I think that everyone should learn how to talk with working class reactionaries (as long as they don’t face an immediate danger) but I’m also empathetic that for some people their qualities lay elsewhere and thus they take up roles that allow them to not have to interact with reactionary people much.
this is an excellent point. we have marginalized comrades for whom wading into the organizing trenches with super reactionary types might be straight up unsafe, and in that case folks who don’t face these forms of oppression as directly should be prioritized in taking up those organizing tasks. and when not unsafe as such, dealing with these attitudes is exhausting in a way those who are less marginalized can’t immediately empathize with (which i think is the sympathetic core of where the old “it’s not my job to educate you” slogan came from, it’s exhausting and psychologically corrosive to constantly have to advocate for your basic existence).
i didn’t really mean what i wrote yesterday to be a totalizing thing that covers every organizing scenario, more a general call for more grace & empathy toward our class & for more humility in our relationship to ourselves. i also do acknowledge there’s a (sadly much higher than any of us would like) swath of the reactionary working class who are too far gone.
the one last note i wanted to hit is that, when we talk about the reactionary tendencies in working class people, it’s easy to jump to thinking about the extremes of bigotry (like hardcore committed MAGA types), but i guess what i’m more referring to is the broad spectrum of reaction/the larger brainwashing reactionary soup we’ve all been raised in that crops up in everyone in various different ways and degrees. libs are gonna have reactionary tendencies, communists are gonna have reactionary tendencies, apolitical folk are gonna have reactionary tendencies, and we should try our best to build spaces/processes/structures that welcome all of us into the process of unlearning and re-learning.
There are a lot of people with the “I’m not traffic, I’m just stuck in traffic” mentality
Thank you for your service and for sharing your wisdom!
The only thing I have found to deprogram peoples bigotry is to get them to respect the very openly trans inclusive/anti racist etc folks on a personal as well as political level, by proving we are principled, helpful, friendly and genuinely care about our collective liberation.
Personally, it helps me to frame this as “bridging the empathy gap through personal connection”. Chauvinists chose to forgo part of their humanity, when they cut out their ability to empathize with people marked as lesser by chauvinist systems. They did this in the hope for personal material benefit and privilege. This is why they can ignore rational arguments so easily. The suffering of e.g. racialized people seems distant and muted to them.
But they can’t cut out their humanity entirely and when directly confronted with the subject of their systematic oppression, a real human being with real feelings like them, their mental walls slowly start to break down and they start to heal from fear and hate. You’re doing admirable work!
I really appreciate your framing around empathy I think that makes sense
I really, really hate that people need to actually watch the suffering instead of accepting the rational, correct arguments. Obviously things like transphobia effect me very deeply, but also look at things like the modern anti vax movement. People are not satisfied unless they see the blood of their actions. Even then they deny it. In both cases.
Yes it’s frustrating. Thankfully, not all people are like that, only those that actively choose to suppress their empathy. They aren’t born like that, they become this way and stay this way, because our oppressive systems like patriarchy and capitalism constantly incentivize it and punish the opposite. In a different system, people would support each other and keep their natural empathy, even for abstract and distant issues. We can catch a glimpse of that natural empathy in supportive friend groups, or in some (chosen) families and of the more abstract and organized kind in political orgs.
Its a scientific and dialectical process, not a quick one. Tbf its not just internet communists aren’t the first to make this error, students and bohemian types have us beat by a good century, sort of like when people harp on leftists of the west having a purity test character not realizing its again not a unique feature, you can find a whole bunch of purity tests on a job interview or in office culture.
True. Many Christians too love the purity testing with their understanding of sin.
There is a reason why the cultural revolution came AFTER the political one.
Im so bad at explaining things and i am so uncharismatic that as soon as i suggest something to potential communists they instantly become fascists as soon as I open my mouth a la Age of Empires 2 priests
That’s when you go French tier at complaining and become ‘when even THAT person complains about x there’s a point’, its not always to suggest or introduce theory but to create the smallest fracture line to get someone to realize their chains. Sometimes its not leading a discussion but at least getting one fermented, making people think/feel.
Explaining things, especially things people have been primed to hate, is a difficult skill. It takes practice and likely a lifetime to master
I’ve personally found it far more difficult to radicalize people who aren’t super reactionary. You need to care about things to change, so naturally the easiest people to change also have strong opinions.
And yeah, I want to grab em by the lapels and scream “what is wrong with you!” constantly, but that’s what leftist community spaces are for.
I sympathize with your approach, but at the same time I feel it’s a tactic for a particular scenario rather than a noble truth.
Those who chose to maintain reactionary viewpoints in the face of a patient and respectful correction at some point need to expend some effort. Whether by persuasion, observing reality, or even directly feeling the boot on their neck, there’s a point where patience runs out and lines are crossed. Unfortunately many persons actively choose to participate in their own exploitation and exploitation of others.
One also needs to think about the kind of environment created for others when you respond to impermissible rhetoric with friendly compassion, and the missed opportunity to contest their ideas and show solidarity with those their naked bigotry is directed against.
We can’t always place our arm over the shoulder of fascists and coddle them with friendly explanations of why their destructive tendencies are wrong.
You have to do both imo. I don’t think OP is arguing for coddling fascists, if I’m understanding the point correctly the idea is to create a welcoming environment to prime people for having their views challenged in a productive way.
People have a tendency to dig their heels in if improperly confronted or to fawn and become compliant without actually changing their views.
Yeah we agree. Having this fucking issue with my org.
Nicely written and a timely reminder, appreciate the post.
Yes we should totally welcome bigots thus alienating the people who willingly want to work with us to overcome oppression by making every space filled with bigotry against them that we coddle. /S fuck off with this nonsense
You have drawn a false dichotomy. The people whose bigoted and reactionary views we are patiently trying to challenge and correct are also the elements of the multinational proletariat who want to overcome oppression with us. That’s why they are coming to our organizing spaces when invited. They come as imperfect humans just as we are, and unfortunately that means they frequently bring reactionary ideas.
Where are these revolutionary masses who have no bigoted views whatsoever?
That’s why they are coming to our organizing spaces when invited. They come as imperfect humans just as we are, and unfortunately that means they frequently bring reactionary ideas.
When the average church is better at recruiting than us, we lose. They get you in the door (“share the gospel far and wide, everyone is welcome”) before they make you pray away the gay
When the average church is better at recruiting than us, we lose.
Very few people are recruited into religion, they are born into it and brainwashed from birth. The rates of people converting to a religion they didn’t grow up with are tiny. They aren’t converting people, they’re just having kids.
You’re mostly right but I’ll just say that in younger generations converts are increasing. Some churches are seeing increased membership again.
Loneliness epidemic. They’re not really being recruited, they’re just going to the last non-commodified social space left.
It’s not like you need to believe in gods to pray, sing, or attend service. It’s just a place to be welcomed by other people.
Unlike the internet, which is a place to feel lonely. Just enough social interaction to remember what you’re missing, never enough to satisfy.
This might be a large driver in the US, but I live somewhere with plenty alternatives to churches for socialising and young people still choose to join a church because they are more interested in spirituality than mine and older generations. Most young people who report themselves to be religious have not joined a church and don’t plan to, but since they are less antagonistic to religion in general the barrier for joining a church is way lower.
