The way to deprogram this type of lib is to say, “cool, vote for the Democrats if you want, but remember, actual progress is built by organizing on the ground, outside of electoral politics.”
i don’t have experience arguing with american libs, but how would that be effective when they are trying to force you to vote for democrats? in my mind the better thing to do is to engage them in logic of electoral politics itself. “politicians don’t follow people who vote for them, they follow people that will maybe vote for them. if you are making your vote a guarantee for the democrats, then you’re just dooming minorities and trans kids yourself because you are making sure that the democrats can ignore you and chase the ‘reasonable republican’ instead of you and your policies.”
They are not trying to convince you to vote for democrats. They are convincing themselves that they are fighting the good fight. By defending voting for dems, they see themselves as a protector of the marginalized. Attacking that notion is questioning their identity as a good, caring person, which will only cause them to dig in.
Instead suggest that while voting for dems isn’t a bad idea per se, your goals would be better served by organizing and building other forms of dual power. This is an inoffensive alternative that indicates that you respect and share their values, while encouraging them to explore non-electoral options. Correct ideas can only be built through class struggle.
“politicians don’t follow people who vote for them, they follow people that will maybe vote for them. if you are making your vote a guarantee for the democrats, then you’re just dooming minorities and trans kids yourself because you are making sure that the democrats can ignore you and chase the ‘reasonable republican’ instead of you and your policies.”
This line of argument is counterproductive.
Our goal is not to get them to publicly hold positions for the sake of bourgeois politicians smelling that and moving left. Our goal is a system that liberates the marginalized. This cannot take hold through bourgeois elections. Capital must be overthrown, not convinced.
There are two dialectics, themselves in a dialectical relationship with one another:
democrats vs. republicans
reform vs. revolution
For them to come to the conclusion that revolution is necessary, they need to stop seeing change through the lense of elections. By encouraging them to get involved outside that system, they can begin to see how change can be enacted through their own hands. Only then can they drop the D vs. R. mindset. Class struggle is the only reliable path towards correct ideas.
Announce loudly that you do not care if they vote and for whom, and that their identity as a good, caring person is accepted if and only if they are doing something to organize outside of electoral politics. This encourages them to get involved, likely coming into IRL contact with influences more radical than themselves.
i don’t have experience arguing with american libs, but how would that be effective when they are trying to force you to vote for democrats? in my mind the better thing to do is to engage them in logic of electoral politics itself. “politicians don’t follow people who vote for them, they follow people that will maybe vote for them. if you are making your vote a guarantee for the democrats, then you’re just dooming minorities and trans kids yourself because you are making sure that the democrats can ignore you and chase the ‘reasonable republican’ instead of you and your policies.”
They are not trying to convince you to vote for democrats. They are convincing themselves that they are fighting the good fight. By defending voting for dems, they see themselves as a protector of the marginalized. Attacking that notion is questioning their identity as a good, caring person, which will only cause them to dig in.
Instead suggest that while voting for dems isn’t a bad idea per se, your goals would be better served by organizing and building other forms of dual power. This is an inoffensive alternative that indicates that you respect and share their values, while encouraging them to explore non-electoral options. Correct ideas can only be built through class struggle.
This line of argument is counterproductive.
Our goal is not to get them to publicly hold positions for the sake of bourgeois politicians smelling that and moving left. Our goal is a system that liberates the marginalized. This cannot take hold through bourgeois elections. Capital must be overthrown, not convinced.
There are two dialectics, themselves in a dialectical relationship with one another:
For them to come to the conclusion that revolution is necessary, they need to stop seeing change through the lense of elections. By encouraging them to get involved outside that system, they can begin to see how change can be enacted through their own hands. Only then can they drop the D vs. R. mindset. Class struggle is the only reliable path towards correct ideas.
Announce loudly that you do not care if they vote and for whom, and that their identity as a good, caring person is accepted if and only if they are doing something to organize outside of electoral politics. This encourages them to get involved, likely coming into IRL contact with influences more radical than themselves.