i kinda want to go to a bar and socialize with strangers, but i have like no idea what im doing. i didnt really before transitioning but now i feel completely lost. if anyone could give me like a basic outline of the social etiquette it would help so much. i realize this is probably the most autistic question i could ask. it gives me so much anxiety even going to a bar, let alone trying to talk to someone.
It’s easier to start conversations but more difficult to end them when you appear femme in my experience. Depends on your intentions, sexuality, if you “pass”, and the type of bar of course. So I can’t give specific advice, but I am AuDHD, so I definitely get the trouble with social etiquette, but especially when switching gender roles after learning the other side my whole life.
I don’t go to bars often, but only go to ones in progressive areas like the city I live in and rarely dive bars or “singles bars”. So, it’s rare for me to have to deal with aggressive or malicious men that most women have to deal with in bars or anti-trans sentiments. Of course #notallmen, but when you take on the role of a woman in public you of course face the much higher threat against us than male-appearing people do, which is more just a threat of physical violence rather than drugging, rape, torture, and murder that women need to prepare for. Just know to protect your drinks, finish a drink before going to the bathroom or give it to a bartender to put behind the bar, etc. Find out ahead of time if the bar has any other safety tips that they are trained to watch for, especially in “singles bars”. They’re also sometimes posted in women’s restrooms as well. And don’t open a tab in case you need to leave in a hurry. Pay for each drink separately. Also, knowing how to shut down a conversion is a good skill. The male role is to approach which sometimes leads to frustration and aggression, and the female role is to fend off such aggression or accept welcome advances. Sucks that the society works that way, but it is what it is. Though, fortunately or unfortunately, for us neurodivergents we often actually give off that shutdown signal by accident anyway as we’re conditioned to be more concise with answers. Hard habit to break. Anyway, lots of those kinds of tips on safety are the place to start if you’ve never been to a bar as a woman. Safety first. And of your area is not safe for trans-women, I can’t help as much with that as I avoid bars at all costs in those areas, but not all of us are privileged to live in progressive places.
With that out of the way, really the best way to get people to talk to you in a bar is to appear friendly. Sit at the bar rather than a table, if possible. Arrive earlier if bar space is often full. Be sure to have a smile at all times and make eye contact with people close to you if you feel like you might want to talk to them at some point. Try to avoid closed body language like crossing your arms or hovering over and thus looking down at the bar/your drink (but keep it in view as mentioned in the safety stuff). It can be more difficult if you’re taller. If someone starts to sits next to you, look up at them and if they look at you, smile and say hi or even better, use some open ended greetings like “hey, how’s it going?”. Being a woman and being friendly generally makes people less on guard than as a man or if you aren’t smiling. And basic small talk skills like answering questions with answers that give a little information and/or end in a question will keep the conversation going a lot of the time if that’s what they’re also looking for. And as I mentioned don’t use short concise answers that you might be used to giving as ND masking as that doesn’t allow for conversation to flow. I mean don’t info-dump, at least not at first, but show interest by not using simple positive/negative replies.
Anyway, it’s really not that bad and I find I enjoy it way more as a woman. But I enjoy a lot of social things a lot more as a woman. LOL. Be friendly, be safe, talk, smile, stay away from politics or negative subjects, at least at first, and remember that if your fuck up, it’s ok, you’ll probably never see that person again, especially if you live in a decent sized city, but it’s also a reason I avoid dive bars other than the sometimes conservative vibes, since they often have a lot more regulars, and I usually am not looking to become a regular. 😁
All of this might be regional as well. I live in the US, so if you don’t then etiquette might be different, but overall I tried to keep it relatively universal socializing advice. If there’s something in particular that you are concerned about, I can try to answer, but again I’m not a big bar person anymore and I was male appearing when I used to visit more, so my knowledge might be hit or miss. Lol
thank you so much for this reply. this is exactly what i was looking for. im auDHD too so your perspective is perfect haha. thankfully im in a big progressive city in the US so im less worried about running into bigots or people who’ve never seen/met a trans woman before. its really just the social anxiety and not knowing what im supposed to do. i also find turning down strangers profoundly easy for some reason. maybe something to do with my neurodivergence now that you mention it lol.
all of this is so depressing. you’re giving a 10k step guideline for how to have fun. at that point it’s not fun anymore.
This is how neurodivergent people often operate. We’re required most of our lives to pretend to be something we’re not to appease neurotypical people. The only way to do that is to learn scripts so we don’t express our real thoughts and feelings. And we have to pretend not to be exhausted by all of that. Just like someone with MS might have to physically keep up with friends pretend they aren’t exhausted by that.
That’s what disability is. It’s not that there’s anything “wrong” with us, but pretending to be the way society expects takes a ton more effort than a neurotypical person. For example, I don’t have the ability to form habits, at all. So doing tedious tasks for a neurotypical person might take no thought or effort, itself just “muscle memory”. But think of the first time doing that task. It took a lot of effort, right. For me and people like me, every time is that hard. I have to explicitly think about every step. Nothing comes from habit. Also, social conditioning doesn’t work on me, so I’m not conditioned to react to a question or situation a certain way without explicitly thinking about it. And I never learned how to act by instinctively mimicking others. So again, I have to think about how I’ve seen others act that made me comfortable and then try to mimic it in the moment, thus notes about crossing arms or smiling, etc.
So, sometimes for us, having a detailed playbook to fallback on is really helpful. And add to that the trans issue that a lot of people who were raised male never are taught the issues that women have to deal with when socializing in order to stay safe. So I figured this would be helpful since these are the things on my mind when I go out.
My neurodivergence has a ton of advantages, though, as well, like true multitasking, conceptual thinking, detailed visualization, etc. But the biggest disadvantage for a majority is socializing with neurotypical people without that built in understanding and reactions that come with habits and social conditioning.
i disagree. its super helpful to me to have a social script to fall back on. its like bowling for the first time with bumpers. yeah its way more fun to bowl without them, but its also really fucking hard to learn how to throw when you get a gutter ball every time and never even hit a pin. gotta learn the basics first.