The elephant in the room are the military expenses to protect against Russia.
Probably shouldn’t have been invading Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Iran, and elsewhere, and shouldn’t have been pushing for war with Russia all these decades, then.
Nobody can trust Russia. Assholes downed a civil aeroplane and refuse to take responsibility. Also they occupied a lot of Europe and Russified it as much as they tried.
I think that the expenses must be paid from billionnaires’ wallets, and those billionnaires must not be able to trickle the expenses down, also not being able to flee.
Incorrect. Most of Eurasia is fine with Russia, including most of its neighbours.
You must be thinking of the invaders of Iraq and Afghanistan as not trusting Russia.
Also, it is telling that you recognise that the vast majority of the countries that share planet with said invaders do not trust them. Must have something to do with the constant invasions and other atrocities.
Incorrect. Most of Eurasia is fine with Russia, including most of its neighbours.
My favourite Lemmy meme is American tankies pretending they understand European geopolitics. The average Pole or Estonian or Latvian or Lithuanian or would rather die than submit to the gruelling suffering of living under Russian occupation again. This user doesn’t care about the truth, but for anyone who is interested, these are Russia’s European neighbours:
🇳🇴 Norway - Opposes Russia
🇫🇮 Finland - Opposes Russia
🇪🇪 Estonia - Opposes Russia
🇱🇻 Latvia - Opposes Russia
🇱🇹 Lithuania - Opposes Russia
🇵🇱 Poland - Opposes Russia
🇺🇦 Ukraine - Opposes Russia
🇧🇾 Belarus - Supports / allied with Russia
My friend grew up under Russian occupation. She was cold and hungry her entire childhood. Friends and family would be randomly detained in the night. Sometimes they would never be seen again. They had to ask permission to travel anywhere, and never out of the country. No one could afford things like cars. Jobs were assigned, as were apartments.
Communism is evil. Russia is an imperialist dictatorship determined to exterminate all opposition.
If you mean that the USSR militarily intervened in your invasion of Afghanistan at the request of the government of Afghanistan (reluctantly - after several such requests), then you are just being silly.
The US is untrustworthy. Russia is also untrustworthy.
Actually, I’ll keep going (nonexhaustively and in no particular order):
Germany, the UK, Iran, China, France, Qatar, Canada, both Koreas, obviously Israel, Australia, New Zealand, Saudi Arabia, Belarus, Brazil, UAE, Sweden, Denmark, Morocco, and Japan are all untrustworthy.
(Please note that I’m not suggesting people from these countries cannot be trusted, but the countries themselves, meaning people acting on behalf of these countries and the governments themselves)
What are your arguments for Iran, the PRC, the DPRK, and Belarus being untrustworthy?
What agreements did they betray and what invasions did they participate in this century?
Oh, I don’t trust any governments, but I thought a list of ~200 would be overkill.
For those specifically? Iran’s shitty to women and Kurds (but man do I love what they’re doing with the US); China’s shitty to its neighbors, the Congo, and Uyghurs; and the DPRK and Belarus are providing military support to Russia for its neighbor invasion.
So, you do find those governments trustworthy, and you do understand why the rest of the world does, as well, you just have criticism of some of their policies (in some cases, it is understandable, but, in other cases, it’s just old pieces of your empire’s propaganda that you’re leadership doesn’t even bother with trying to substantiate anymore - I recommend you reevaluate what the people that previously sold you on Iraq’s WMDs say about their enemies instead of blindly believing them). Not sure what you mean about the PRC doing something bad to Congo.
Also, considering that you seem to find Belarus and the DPRK’s help to Russia, I have a couple of questions for you:
Do you, in that case, condemn Ukraine helping NATO invade Iraq, Syria, Iran, and elsewhere?
Do you concern NATO self-admittedly pushing for war with Russia (including prior to 2022)?
What should a state do when the most prolific invader in the world - NATO - starts amassing troops on that state’s border?
they occupied a lot of Europe and Russified it as much as they tried.
That was the USSR, led by a Georgian. The Russians can be blamed for much but I think they were resettled in the USSR much like any other ethnic group.
If you want to claim that the USSR liberating Europe from the original nazis and stopping the Lebensraum and the Holocaust was “occupation”, you have to also concede that those parts of Europe are currently occupied by NATO.
Really not sure what you could disagree with in my comment in good faith.
Considering that those governments are now puppet governments of the US, it does seem fair to talk about occupation, given that you consider the USSR’s liberation of that part of Europe from the original nazis to be ‘occupation’.
Also, if you want to talk about how people ‘democratically’ chose to join the most prolific invader in the world (, you do have to admit that they should bear responsibility for invasions of Iran, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, and many other places.
It’s a real mystery how the CIA managed to brainwash all the east european warsaw pact countries into hating the USSR while all of their media was still under the control of the proletariat.
That’s a rather silly claim, considering that plenty of people’s lives did get worse after the undemocratic dismantlement of the USSR (which most of these supposed USSR-haters voted against), and the rest are now beneficiaries of things like invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
It’s not really surprising that people who join gangs of robbers, murderers and torturers hate not being beneficiaries of such and will claim that they were oppressed even when their living standards were demonstrably some of the best in the world.
Also, you do understand that the USSR was one of the most significant forces behind the decolonization of Africa and Asia, and that it helped liberation movements there, right? And you do understand what that means with regards to what sort of people would hate it, don’t you?
Sure, the march 1991 referendum supported preserving the USSR, but by that time Poland, Hungary and the baltics had already seceded, and Ukraine had a referendum with an opposite result 9 months later.
You are either claiming that the USSR’s liberation of Europe both was and wasn’t occupation, or you are claiming that the USSR preventing fascists from coming into power on those countries was ‘occupation’, while the US putting fascists into power there and also doing things like what has been done to Greece and Ukraine is somehow not such.
I didn’t say anything about that because it doesn’t matter for the Russians. No matter if the USSR was good or bad, that Russification is not proof that Russians want to russify their neighbors.
Also, as there’s no standardized way to count these, Finland with mandatory conscription has a crapload of expenses which aren’t included in miltary expenses. In current global situation I don’t think increasing expenses was a wrong call and it’s not purely black and white, there’s also at least some jobs to finns trough the investments, but I’d say that our money would’ve been better spent to something else than US and Israel tech as (specially USA) has not been really reliable partner.
But also the reality is that even without those expenses our budget has been negative for quite a while, so something had to be done. I’m not saying that current government had the best actions, and they have objectively made things worse on some places, but just waiting for a miracle wouldn’t have worked either. But that’s a whole another discussion.
Rant incoming! Their biggest failure is making people fear for themselves and their families, by those massive cuts in welfare and healthcare, and then even literally laughing about it.
That tanked the home economy, as basically now everyone who can is saving, since if the safety nets are not working, you have to build them for yourself. The ones that have plenty, are investing them, which means that money is mostly flowing out of the country. And the cuts in welfare took the money directly out of the system, as people who need it would use all of it in everyday stuff, like food - and now they have less to use. Cuts to healthcare and social services cause people’s problems getting worse, which then costs a lot more, as people drop out of workforce, have to have more expensive surgeries, children protective services and police are needed more etc.
And raising the prices people have to pay for healthcare means, a lot of people cannot afford to see the doctor until their problems get way worse, and that raises the expenses even more as well.
And forcing people to rely on toimeentulotuki (the absolute last line of welfare) costs a lot more than what it would cost without, already just because the system has to process all the applications every month, not to mention how it forces people to be passive and makes it really hard to improve their situation.
And the complete removal of the small amount you can earn before the unemployment money gets cut, means people will not take the small gigs, which again means less money flowing in the system, and people getting more and more passive, and having to rely on toimeentulotuki instead.
And… the list just gets longer, the more these idiots manage to wreck havoc, with their ideological bullshit, and ignoring scientific results.
Unless we get a government, that does not have any of the money worshipping morons in there, the situation will not improve. They have to fix what was broken: somehow manage to convince people, they do not need to fear, or the doom spiral will just get worse and worse. People have to trust they will not lose everything the moment they get sick or lose their jobs, for things to actually work.
The elephant in the room are the military expenses to protect against Russia.
The open question is if 5% are necessary or if 2% would have been enough.
Plus I think something like 8% GDP loss from sanctions. Finland did major trade with Russia
Probably shouldn’t have been invading Iraq, Afghanistan, Libya, Syria, Iran, and elsewhere, and shouldn’t have been pushing for war with Russia all these decades, then.
Nobody can trust Russia. Assholes downed a civil aeroplane and refuse to take responsibility. Also they occupied a lot of Europe and Russified it as much as they tried.
I think that the expenses must be paid from billionnaires’ wallets, and those billionnaires must not be able to trickle the expenses down, also not being able to flee.
You are implying that somebody can trust the invaders of Iraq and Afghanistan.
Also, most of the world very much does seem to be able to trust Russia just fine.
Well except for the people that share a continent with them…
Incorrect. Most of Eurasia is fine with Russia, including most of its neighbours.
You must be thinking of the invaders of Iraq and Afghanistan as not trusting Russia.
Also, it is telling that you recognise that the vast majority of the countries that share planet with said invaders do not trust them. Must have something to do with the constant invasions and other atrocities.
My favourite Lemmy meme is American tankies pretending they understand European geopolitics. The average Pole or Estonian or Latvian or Lithuanian or would rather die than submit to the gruelling suffering of living under Russian occupation again. This user doesn’t care about the truth, but for anyone who is interested, these are Russia’s European neighbours:
🇳🇴 Norway - Opposes Russia
🇫🇮 Finland - Opposes Russia
🇪🇪 Estonia - Opposes Russia
🇱🇻 Latvia - Opposes Russia
🇱🇹 Lithuania - Opposes Russia
🇵🇱 Poland - Opposes Russia
🇺🇦 Ukraine - Opposes Russia
🇧🇾 Belarus - Supports / allied with Russia
My friend grew up under Russian occupation. She was cold and hungry her entire childhood. Friends and family would be randomly detained in the night. Sometimes they would never be seen again. They had to ask permission to travel anywhere, and never out of the country. No one could afford things like cars. Jobs were assigned, as were apartments.
Communism is evil. Russia is an imperialist dictatorship determined to exterminate all opposition.
Lol Russia invaded Afghanistan you donkey.
When?
If you mean that the USSR militarily intervened in your invasion of Afghanistan at the request of the government of Afghanistan (reluctantly - after several such requests), then you are just being silly.
Yeah the request of the government that was installed quite violently by the USSR…
The US is untrustworthy. Russia is also untrustworthy.
Actually, I’ll keep going (nonexhaustively and in no particular order):
Germany, the UK, Iran, China, France, Qatar, Canada, both Koreas, obviously Israel, Australia, New Zealand, Saudi Arabia, Belarus, Brazil, UAE, Sweden, Denmark, Morocco, and Japan are all untrustworthy.
(Please note that I’m not suggesting people from these countries cannot be trusted, but the countries themselves, meaning people acting on behalf of these countries and the governments themselves)
What are your arguments for Iran, the PRC, the DPRK, and Belarus being untrustworthy?
What agreements did they betray and what invasions did they participate in this century?
Oh, I don’t trust any governments, but I thought a list of ~200 would be overkill.
For those specifically? Iran’s shitty to women and Kurds (but man do I love what they’re doing with the US); China’s shitty to its neighbors, the Congo, and Uyghurs; and the DPRK and Belarus are providing military support to Russia for its neighbor invasion.
So, you do find those governments trustworthy, and you do understand why the rest of the world does, as well, you just have criticism of some of their policies (in some cases, it is understandable, but, in other cases, it’s just old pieces of your empire’s propaganda that you’re leadership doesn’t even bother with trying to substantiate anymore - I recommend you reevaluate what the people that previously sold you on Iraq’s WMDs say about their enemies instead of blindly believing them). Not sure what you mean about the PRC doing something bad to Congo.
Also, considering that you seem to find Belarus and the DPRK’s help to Russia, I have a couple of questions for you:
That was the USSR, led by a Georgian. The Russians can be blamed for much but I think they were resettled in the USSR much like any other ethnic group.
If you want to claim that the USSR liberating Europe from the original nazis and stopping the Lebensraum and the Holocaust was “occupation”, you have to also concede that those parts of Europe are currently occupied by NATO.
occupied by NATO
ahhahahahahahahaaaaa
was that the NATO invasion of 1989 when the cluster fuck of the USSR finally imploded and the NATO troops invaded and installed puppet governments
i mean there really is no point talking to ml’s
Really not sure what you could disagree with in my comment in good faith.
Considering that those governments are now puppet governments of the US, it does seem fair to talk about occupation, given that you consider the USSR’s liberation of that part of Europe from the original nazis to be ‘occupation’.
Also, if you want to talk about how people ‘democratically’ chose to join the most prolific invader in the world (, you do have to admit that they should bear responsibility for invasions of Iran, Syria, Libya, Afghanistan, Iraq, and many other places.
It’s a real mystery how the CIA managed to brainwash all the east european warsaw pact countries into hating the USSR while all of their media was still under the control of the proletariat.
That’s a rather silly claim, considering that plenty of people’s lives did get worse after the undemocratic dismantlement of the USSR (which most of these supposed USSR-haters voted against), and the rest are now beneficiaries of things like invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan.
It’s not really surprising that people who join gangs of robbers, murderers and torturers hate not being beneficiaries of such and will claim that they were oppressed even when their living standards were demonstrably some of the best in the world.
Also, you do understand that the USSR was one of the most significant forces behind the decolonization of Africa and Asia, and that it helped liberation movements there, right? And you do understand what that means with regards to what sort of people would hate it, don’t you?
Sure, the march 1991 referendum supported preserving the USSR, but by that time Poland, Hungary and the baltics had already seceded, and Ukraine had a referendum with an opposite result 9 months later.
I don’t.
Then you are contradicting yourself.
How?
You are either claiming that the USSR’s liberation of Europe both was and wasn’t occupation, or you are claiming that the USSR preventing fascists from coming into power on those countries was ‘occupation’, while the US putting fascists into power there and also doing things like what has been done to Greece and Ukraine is somehow not such.
I didn’t say anything about that because it doesn’t matter for the Russians. No matter if the USSR was good or bad, that Russification is not proof that Russians want to russify their neighbors.
Also, as there’s no standardized way to count these, Finland with mandatory conscription has a crapload of expenses which aren’t included in miltary expenses. In current global situation I don’t think increasing expenses was a wrong call and it’s not purely black and white, there’s also at least some jobs to finns trough the investments, but I’d say that our money would’ve been better spent to something else than US and Israel tech as (specially USA) has not been really reliable partner.
But also the reality is that even without those expenses our budget has been negative for quite a while, so something had to be done. I’m not saying that current government had the best actions, and they have objectively made things worse on some places, but just waiting for a miracle wouldn’t have worked either. But that’s a whole another discussion.
Rant incoming! Their biggest failure is making people fear for themselves and their families, by those massive cuts in welfare and healthcare, and then even literally laughing about it.
That tanked the home economy, as basically now everyone who can is saving, since if the safety nets are not working, you have to build them for yourself. The ones that have plenty, are investing them, which means that money is mostly flowing out of the country. And the cuts in welfare took the money directly out of the system, as people who need it would use all of it in everyday stuff, like food - and now they have less to use. Cuts to healthcare and social services cause people’s problems getting worse, which then costs a lot more, as people drop out of workforce, have to have more expensive surgeries, children protective services and police are needed more etc.
And raising the prices people have to pay for healthcare means, a lot of people cannot afford to see the doctor until their problems get way worse, and that raises the expenses even more as well.
And forcing people to rely on toimeentulotuki (the absolute last line of welfare) costs a lot more than what it would cost without, already just because the system has to process all the applications every month, not to mention how it forces people to be passive and makes it really hard to improve their situation.
And the complete removal of the small amount you can earn before the unemployment money gets cut, means people will not take the small gigs, which again means less money flowing in the system, and people getting more and more passive, and having to rely on toimeentulotuki instead.
And… the list just gets longer, the more these idiots manage to wreck havoc, with their ideological bullshit, and ignoring scientific results.
Unless we get a government, that does not have any of the money worshipping morons in there, the situation will not improve. They have to fix what was broken: somehow manage to convince people, they do not need to fear, or the doom spiral will just get worse and worse. People have to trust they will not lose everything the moment they get sick or lose their jobs, for things to actually work.