so that means he doesn’t have a deal.
I get the sense the Venezuelans are buying their time and waiting Trump out with concessions that most likely won’t hold in the future
Dangle some meat in front of the beast so that it goes to sleep for a few years so Venezuela can rebuild and refortify
Nah, they just went full comprador.
Where’s the oil for Cuba, comrades?
Yes the entire chavista movement is maga now, which is why all of PSUV is voting in unity and all tens of thousands of grassroots communes with millions of people collectively are supporting their party. The first ever pay off of an entire nation of people to become compradors
Doomers still can’t answer why those communes haven’t risen up to overthrow the compradors yet. Unlike what passes as the left in the West, they are armed and organized. I guess the collective membership of the communes all just lost their guns in the mail one day.
Unlike Iran, militias were subservient to the military, unlike the IRGC having politics in command. However, nobody wants a Grenada Jewel Movement civil war so the situation is complex. A few weeks or months ago some peasants were killed and not much was done.
It really is just a case of them having 0 information about the conditions of Venezuela, seeing a headline, and making an assumption based on that headline. This is typical lib shit but it is concerning when people are acting like they are leftists while doing it.
Why didn’t the soviets overthrow Gorbachev? Loyalty and obedience overrides socialist principles, we’ve seen this dozens of times before.
They didn’t overthrow Gorbachev because Soviet society had already been sufficiently weakened by Khrushchev. And they did protest over Khrushchev. Khrushchev had to purge and sideline people like Molotov on top of putting down protests from ordinary Soviet citizens. So where are the protests against Rodriguez and purges that Rodriguez orchestrated?
There can’t be a Gorbachev without a Khrushchev first. If Rodriguez is the Gorbachev, is Maduro the Khrushchev?
Soviet society under Khrushchev was still far more socialist than the current Venezuelan administration. Venezuela’s revolution was incomplete to start with and has stagnated since that point, it’s never been as strong as even Khrushchev era USSR even at its peak under Chavez. That step (revisionism and liberalization and bringing back market forces) can be skipped entirely because it was never implemented in the first place. Venezuela never got it’s bourgeoise under control, it never restricted its market forces. There was constant tension and struggle, but the Venezuelan bourgeoise have now got the winning hand because they allied with the US and the US was willing to directly intervene to force the issue and push out the last holdouts against full Liberalization.
It’s just extremely odd to me that socialists would use the argument of “this socialist state is healthy and fine because we don’t see any internal revolt” when that’s exactly the state of rot we saw in all of the socialist projects (many FAR more advanced than Venezuela ever was) that have failed, slow stagnation, revisionism and decline without any major internal pushback big enough to stop it.
The #1 killer of socialist projects isn’t the CIA, it’s internal revisionism and apathy.
The pitfalls of democratic socialism and decades of hybrid warfare can erode society and restore capitalism. However I still have faith in communes and collectives since the most advanced have always been leagues ahead of the ruling govt organizationally and ideologically. Revisionism stemmed from the reformist character and apathy from sanctions and loss in faith in the project, presumably poor cadre formation and political education but I dunno. To me the principal contradiction is amerikkkan imperialism and it’s what intensifies and acts upon internal contradictions, even creating new ones, however placing too much emphasis on either is one-sided thinking, idk.
Whoah whoah whoah, are you suggesting people might need to know something about Venezuela before making sweeping doomer declarations? Fuck that, being a leftist is about vibes and being smarter than those third worlders
I’m dead.
This is another reason US doesn’t really care about Hormuz that much in the grand scheme of things. They have Venezuela under their control and it’s a lot closer and easier to police and protect as well as exploit compared to the increasingly wealthy Gulf vassals who the US cannot entirely stop from getting close with China and who anyway in the middle of this century will become unlivable due to climate change. Hormuz situation will encourage investment and increased exploitation of these reserves providing the US a stable source of cheap oil not only for its own use but for export to control vassals through pricing deals or withholding energy. Same as the other plans seizing waterways like Panama canal, kicking out Chinese companies, locking down Greenland, etc. The real stumbling block of course still being replacing certain Chinese industries like rare earths and so on. We’ll see if they can pay companies to do that in the west with guaranteed business and a ban on Chinese alternatives or if that falls apart with the companies taking the investments and running. Obviously I hope for the latter.
in the grand scheme they need heaps of billions in investment (and years) to build up the extraction & refining capability to exploit VZ to an extent to somewhat replace SOH traffic. Morons like Bessent might be brushing off defeat in Iran with VZ “futures” but global reserves are going to force an acquiantance with reality soon enough
well the panama canal takeover failed for now so that’s another W
This really sucks. The people of Venezuela deserve better
"They should’ve thought of that before electing a leftist! :smuglord: " - liberals
So what do you people want them to do? There’s not going to be an epic fight, the US will fly in their bombers and decimate the country and nobody is going to do anything about it. You think they won’t because of the oil they need? It doesn’t matter all the angry proles with negative levels of class consciousness can be exported abroad, creates more stormtroopers and settlers. Or they just post online thinking it does anything. What I’m doing here does nothing and unless I’ve got my skin in the game manufacturing arms in Venezuela to fend of the Empire and willing to put all my loved ones at risk of being bombed by the most evil place on the planet I shouldn’t spread defeatism. Yes America won the battle there’s jack shit anyone can do about it, the pathetic left can’t even get the president out of jail, clowns.
The westerners watching this through their phones want to see epic battles and instant imperial defeats and until that happens every other country is failing them
Obviously they should do the revolution while the LA just cheerleads and marches once in a while and goes to brunch
the only “defeatism” being spread here is the people (such as yourself) who say ‘what are you gonna do, you can’t win against America. Just submit’ or those who stick their head in the sand and keep saying everything if fine, the revolution loves this actually (which is just a form of self-delusion)
this is good for 401k of average american prole
Not my wholesome labor aristocrats!
The average American prole doesn’t have a 401k
the average does, unless im misremembering, around 60% are involved in some stock-based retirement thingy
The difference probably in counting students tbh and older retirees having defined union based thingy (pre-reagan type stuff), students aren’t workers, and i assume they are around 5% of population as well, pre reagan workers would be around 5-10 years age bracket as well
Most students are workers now a days.
Those old pension systems are all tied to stock investment portfolios as well.
Easy to make “historic deals” when you install a puppet that gives you any deal you want.
Yes they installed a puppet by the Venezuelan constitution being followed and the vice president taking over as acting president. That’s what installing a puppet is, the democratic election process of Venezuela has been a long game by the US to install a puppet.
Throwback to when China got that “99 year lease” of some defunct harbor project and people where going on about “colonialism” and “debt traps” or whatever. They offered to cancel debt and pay to finish it if I remember correctly.
This oil deal is probably fine tho. Just “business” or whatever.
Really need to see the details on this agreement cause that is really concerning unless the Venezuelan people get huge benefits.
Optimistically it’ll push the US to invest in production infrastructure which can later be nationalized when the global situation is better but have to see the details.
Optimistically
lol
Probably shoulda used
What do you imagine the huge benefit of getting robbed at gunpoint to be?
“Acting President Delcy Rodríguez detailed the scale of the pact in an official statement: the 17 strategic fields hold proven potential of 65 billion barrels of oil. In this sense, investment will surpass 100 billion dollars, and more than 209 billion dollars will reach the Venezuelan state in tributes.”
Thank you for adding that! ~$3/bbl doesn’t sound great but I’m comparing that to wholesale prices that already have the infrastructure developed so all things considered (especially the military threats) getting the infrastructure and the funds isn’t as bad as it initially sounds.
Still not a great situation but until they or their allies can better fend off the great satan it’s about survival and the communes retaining power.
Yeah it is extortion but it will bring much needed revenue to Venezuela and prevent them from being mercilessly bombed by the US which won’t help them either. It is more like China accepting being the world’s sweatshop as a step towards a better future than compradors selling out the people. Not a good situation but nothing we should blame them for
China never had it’s political leader kidnapped and then the next in charge start cooperating fully with the kidnappers. China never gave up its sovereignty or national resources in any way similar to this post revolution. China was able to do what smaller states cannot, which is resist absorption into the neoliberal system once hooked in. This is just neo-colonial apologism for leftists. “Much needed revenue” lmao. Yeah and the British brought much needed ports and railroad tracks to India!
Yeah china is a different country on the other side of the world. All the ultras here who think they can copy and paste the outcomes of one nation onto another are displaying their complete rejection of materialist analysis. The comparison is clearly to do with having to make sacrifices to enemies in the short term to bide time and grow the project into a position to claim more space and defend the project instead of losing it altogether. There are endless examples of this, it is a universal experience that can compared and contrasted between different revolutionary examples.
You are lost trying to argue the form of something while having no idea of its content. The geography, history, culture, economy, diplomatic relationships, etc are the material conditions that separate the Chinese experience from every other experience. If everyone could of just done what china did, you would have already learned how to interpret material reality within a Marxist framework instead of spreading vapid bullshit
Haha no. It’s just straight up extraction.
The US gets 65 billion barrels of free crude and Venezuela gets nothing. Be concerned,
Delcy is a comprador and has completely sold out the Chavistas for no reason but personal benefit.Really doing your username justice by spreading nonsense under the guise of the left
Oh, please do correct me with sources. How, precisely, does it benefit Venezuela to grant the US ownership of 55% of this oil reserve for 100 years and accept the permanent barring of Venezuelan SOEs from accessing this oil reserve, in exchange for nothing?
I think at best, this is a means to avoid further military threats from the US.
I didn’t make an unfounded claim, you need to prove how Venezuela gets nothing in return for the exchange
It’s famously easy to prove negatives.
Can you find a single source that shows Venezuela gains anything from this deal other than privately-owned infrastructure being located in its territory? I can’t, and I’ve been searching for over an hour.
I commented elsewhere in this thread that venezuela’s leadership projects 202 billion from this project, per telesur
if you can’t prove they are getting nothing and are compradors why are you saying it? that is liberal idealism, making shit up because it fits the narrative in your head instead of basing it on what it really verifiable
I see. That’s the projected tax revenue on the other 45% of the oil reserves which the US doesn’t claim.
So, Venezuela’s gain is the potential tax revenue on privately extracted oil and income taxes for employees.
Telesur’s site won’t load for me, and I just get a 413 error. Never seen that on a news site before.
Dunno what to tell you, I spent legitimately over an hour trying to find information on this deal and the one site that apparently had any was the one that won’t open in my browser.
