Was having this conversation with some new friends earlier and was curious. When did you guys figure out your sexuality/identity or whatever? Was there a person that helped you or a particular moment or event?
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Gods I am extremely dumb. I (cis fem) had crushes on girls for over a decade before I realised I had crushes on them.
Age 13 - “No I just like looking at her and think she’s really pretty”.
Age 16 - “No I just like her aesthetic. It’s gorgeous”.
Age 20 - “Ok I might kiss a girl a little bit, but I wouldn’t do anything else with her. I like boys anyway.”
Age 23 - “I just like looking at women naked. They’re so pretty and glamorous, who wouldn’t want to look at them? It doesn’t mean I’m gay or anything.”
(Spoiler alert: It totally meant that.)
Eventually figured out (with the help of my partner) I’m bi with a preference towards feminine traits, not necessarily women but anything seen as classically femme - long hair, long eyelashes, makeup, soft body, painted nails, a soft smile. Also kindness, gentleness, etc. There’s probably plenty more things I can’t think of. (Apparently my attraction is kinda misogynistic).
When I was 19 I started dating a boy with some of those traits and I thought I was winning at life. Then that boy turned out to be a girl and she got the rest of those traits and now I am winning at life. And walking down the street with her and holding her hand and being able to show her off and think “this is my girlfriend” makes me extremely happy - for the both of us. More than it ever did before.
Apparently my attraction is kinda misogynistic
Attraction can’t be misogynistic just like it can’t be racist or hetero or homophobic. It’s not a failing or a success to feel sexually attracted to someone (or to not feel this towards anyone at all). Attraction is a feeling. Feeling, like all emotions, are always valid. There is nothing inherently right or wrong about the presence or absence of an emotion or feeling.
It is completely valid to be attracted to whatever you are attracted to and to not be attracted to whatever doesn’t fall in that bucket.
Strahd himself is asking this? I’m star-struck!
Hm, but to try to answer this… I used to play a lot of EverQuest back in the day, and at one point upgraded to EverQuest 2. I was pretty open when talking to people online, even though I was a little kid, just chatting up random players while leveling and regularly inviting random people to groups just to have someone to talk to.
At one point I met some other player who was playing a rat man (Ratonga?) and he and I played for a while while chatting randomly about life or whatever. At some point I must’ve expressed confusion about how I felt about a male friend of mine, and this player very calmly and patiently explained same-sex attraction to me. I’d gone to a private Catholic grade school and never had much information about queer anything to this point, so it was a bit of a shock to me.
Thankfully, this player was so patient and kind with me, talking about their own identity as an adult gay man, how happy they were, what their life is like, and really helping me to understand that it’s normal, it’s healthy, and in many ways it’s fun.
I think back on that encounter occasionally and I think about how genuinely impactful and helpful it was for me. We didn’t talk for very long, but it left such a lasting impact on how I view myself. Without it, I may have lived with a lot of shame and confusion for a lot longer.
Sometimes I wonder where he is, and if he knows how much of an impact he had.
I had a few other interactions on MMOs that were similar, after this encounter, trying to find other people like me who I could look up to. Surprisingly, many people were very friendly to me and willing to talk about their lives and explain things. It was my very first interaction with the community, and it was all virtual through games. So many people helped me out when I was experiencing a lot of confusion. I wish I’d had that help in real life, but at least I did find it somewhere.
Thats a wonderful story! What a kind stranger. It was pretty much the same with me, but it was a good friend. And looking at the other responses, it seems like thats a commonality. Having people to talk about it with really helps!
I was the stereotypical tomboy growing up: I hated the colour pink, had no interest in dolls, and actively fought against being put in dresses. When puberty began between 5th and 6th grade, I cried at being unable to fit my favourite hand-me-down clothes from my older brother. I was miserable when my mom took me shopping for training bras.
I lived with a persistent feeling that something was off about me and my life until one morning in 10th grade journalism class. While browsing the net on a school laptop, I happened to come across the Wikipedia page for transsexual. I’d never heard of it before. I read the page from top to bottom during that class. My heart was racing, I had chills, and I felt scared for seemingly no reason. Everything seemed to click into place in that moment, and I knew I was reading about myself.
Naturally, my sexuality flipped from heterosexual to homosexual. It felt natural and right and how things were always meant to be, and I never had cause to question it.
I figured out that I (cis fem) was into other women when I was in junior high school, probably around age 11 or 12. It helps that I am in an accepting part of the country (California) with accepting parents, so there was never any demonization of that possibility. One of my earlier memories about it was seeing an underwear ad and thinking that that model was really hot lol.
It took me longer to realize I was actually bi and not a lesbian.
A lot of these narratives often focus on a pivotal point during life where people realize something they had been suppressing or the first time they realized their feelings towards others (or themselves) didn’t fit the most most prevalent narrative. My narrative is a little bit different. I don’t think I’ve ever really questioned how I feel about things - I just feel. The only question around feelings I tend to have is what to do with those feelings.
My whole life I’ve struggled a lot with loosely defined social concepts. Etiquette is a good example of a loosely defined social concept. What polite behavior is varies based on who you’re talking to, where you are, what you’re doing, what income bracket you’re in, and a billion other factors. It always made me wonder, why do we simplify to this single word? Why say that’s polite or impolite, when we could say something more accurate like “that kind of behavior causes people to be upset” or “you’re not being very considerate when you say that” or “we have a set of rules here and you’re breaking them and we do not tolerate that” or whatever is appropriate to the offense.
Because of this, while I do pay attention to these words and how other people use them (we live in a society 😔), I never developed strong narratives around them. Being born a certain way never made me feel like I had to do certain things or feel a certain way. I’ve always been attracted to people in a vaguely amorphous way based on a lot of different factors and in different ways. Some people are more attractive to me mentally than physically, but a strong physical connection can improve the mental and vice versa. I like being emotionally intimate with people, but I don’t feel like emotional intimacy is something that can only be sought after in a romantic context (just stop for a second and ask yourself what romance is, if you’ve never questioned it).
This is just a long preamble to say, to me it’s not about figuring it out. There wasn’t one moment. There’s been a bunch of moments, however, when I found someone’s narrative that matched mine and it gave me a new word I could use to describe myself. As I collected more and more narratives in the world from people that resembled me in different ways, these labels have shifted over time. As I spent time exploring the depths of these feelings, I figured out more behind why I wanted to act in certain ways or have others perceive me through a particular lens.
In terms of sexuality, the first label which I realized fit me was bisexuality. Over the years I changed this to pansexual because I liked the focus of people over their gender. Gender is unsurprisingly one of these amorphous social constructs that I do not understand. It took me a while to realize that some of my discomfort was around how I wanted others to perceive me and how I needed to change some of my presentation in order to get that treatment. At first I was just a cross-dresser, tapping into a deep-seated desire when the need pushed itself to the surface strongly enough. Eventually I realized that I was bottling up certain feelings when I presented to the world in a manner which didn’t really align well with how I felt. When I started expressing more subtly or slightly in that direction in the day-to-day, it felt less like my gender exploding out of a container which was being suppressed, and more like a happy medium. I redefined my gender from fluidity to non-binary and eventually to agender as I realized that the way I think about gender is not so much my feelings, but managing how others feel about and respond to me.
Speaking of amorphous social constructs, coming to the realization that I was also aromantic took an extremely long time. I strongly desire physical, emotional, sexual, intellectual, and basically all forms of intimacy and both pursue and suggest many of them with my partners. I’ve had partners who felt that we had an extremely romantic relationship. But I never understood how people framed how they talked about other people - why certain people were matches and others weren’t, and how they would know this right away. This isn’t how I view sexuality either - some people are physically very attractive because they take care of their body and have the right genetics and most of these people I’d very much like to have sex with because they are pleasing, but it wasn’t until I realized that there is just some innate feeling that people get, which isn’t necessarily based on the characteristics of the person but is just… like there… as a feeling… sometimes? That’s wild to me. I don’t understand this. I probably don’t understand this because I don’t also have this feeling - my feelings are more directed. I feel like I want to be intellectually intimate with someone who is smart or shares certain intellectual thoughts - the feeling happens after the connection or recognition of traits. Aromantic took me a long time to adopt as a label for the same reason (and it would not surprise me if I adopt gray-ace or some other aspec identity eventually), in that common narratives around a feeling just did not resonate with me, despite doing a lot of ‘romantic’ behavior because I value intimacy.
I really resonate with the first portion of your comment. That is to say, my journey to bisexuality was basically the same: I never had a “eureka” moment, more of a “oh, I finally managed to loosen the shackles of the homophobia I was raised with thanks to exposure, and now there seem to be feelings that I should figure out.” I guess if I had to pick one specific moment as a pivot point, it was when I told a guy that offered me his number that I was already in a happy relationship rather than I wasn’t gay. Even before that point though, I already had stuff rattling around in my subconscious (working at a gas station across the street from a gay bar will lead to a lot of subconscious questioning of prior assumptions).
Nowadays, I’m perfectly secure saying that I’m some flavor of bisexual. I hesitate to try pinning it down more since it’s such an amorphous thing for me (kind of like your relationship with gender), and because of the previously-mentioned relationship (19 years at this point and going strong), I don’t really feel any need or desire to do any “hands-on” exploration. I would say that’s the benefit of not having a single “this is it” moment for when I “realized my true self” though: Having a flexible view on my romantic/sexual/gender identity means I can just live being the person I am. It can make things difficult if people insist on labels for things when I don’t quite know how to label myself, but I just use whatever is closest for me and it works out alright.
Smol me “I don’t get whats the big deal with everyone just liking boys or girls, I think they’re both pretty neat!”
Slightly less smol me at the age of 14 “Oh they have a word for that, neato!”
Me right now “You know I ain’t fully vibing with the being a guy thing but being a girl doesn’t seem to fully fit either, hmmmmmm”
Guys I think my general indecisiveness has spilled over into my sexuality and gender identity what do? :c
Guys I think my general indecisiveness has spilled over into my sexuality and gender identity what do? :c
I like to jokingly refer to my queer identities as all “yes, and” mentality. Don’t make me decide!!
Its funny that you mention that because I have joked in the past with folk asking what my sexuality was as just being “yes”, else I’d probably have to give them a five page essay on it instead xD
Did you know the one letter marker for sex (M for male, F for female) is X for nonbinary? I like to joke that I just marked the box next to sex because yes, I would like to.
My identities are a lot of yes, AND- yes I like men, AND everyone else. Yes I want to have a relationship with someone AND other people. Yes parts of my gender are girl AND boy and something else. If they’re queer and interested we can talk out about the nuances of all this, but generally speaking I just enjoy people and life and want more (hedonistic bunny)
Theres a part of me that just wants to put X down just so I can say that its because I’m extreme yeahhhhhhhh!
God though are you like my clone or something, cus I also found myself vibing with polyamory for similar reasons. Like I’ve definitely struggled with feeling for more than one person and how crushing it can be when you’re worrying about being unfaithful or selfish when you’re with somebody who doesn’t feel similar. Just think it would be awesome if my partner or partners along with myself can feel safe and free to explore these feelings without worrying, I’d want them to feel happy and if another person would add to that for them then even better! Plus its less pressure on myself to meet their emotional needs since I can struggle with my own brain gremlins at times and I might not be able to fully help, even though I would really want to.
Hell yea compersion rules and yes, you’re right, no one can be absolutely everything for someone else and it’s kinda of rude to put that pressure on them. No shade towards monoamorous individuals if that’s what works for you, that’s super cool and I wish you the best but please recognize that you have friends and family and rely on and help others in many diverse ways!
Well I dunno, a lot of my gender is explicitly having fun with and messing with people’s ideas about the world. Like I got a fairly niche bottom surgery done mostly because I thought it would be fun to be able to say “yes” if anyone ever asked me what’s in my pants (and also because bonus parts, why not)
Oh for sure, monogamy is perfectly valid too! I wouldn’t be going around proclaiming poly is somehow superior since different ways of being fit differently for different people and thats ok!
Gosh I dunno I could go as far as surgery though, like at most getting maybe more of a feminine figure or a bit of booba as I’m a bit squeamish at the idea of surgery, but then again thats maybe just cus I just hesitate a lot and overthink things so maybe that will change haha
well regardless of what you decide is right for you, I wish you luck and good vibes and I hope it brings you joy and wonder ✨🌈💜
I found out… just a few days ago. I’m still kinda confused. One day I was browsing reddit without signing in (this was a long time ago). There was a post about a gay man. I usually search a lot of things on wikipedia, so I found an article about him, too. Having mistaken the word gay with something else, I was very confused why the article kept saying “with his husband” (I thought it was a typo or something, but it was repeated a lot of times). So, that was how I found the correct meaning of the word… and I did not like it. And I also suspected myself. I don’t know when I started questioning myself exactly. My diary shows the question was there for a much longer time than I actually recall. I’ve reffered to it as The Am I question. Then one day, I was reading something entirely different on wikihow, but I somehow landed on the Am I Gay quiz. The answer was “you’re probably straight.” I wasn’t sure so I opened the page that read “How to find out if you’re gay.” That’s how I found out, and I’m sure about it. I took the quiz more carefully… the answer changed. But I do live in a country which doesn’t treat LGBT people right, and I don’t know what to do. Also I feel so guilty… I used to think LGBT people are bad. I couldn’t have been more wrong. I understand more now, about myself and people like me. Also I understand why my idea of having a girlfriend is the same as I was 7 years old.
I always had a feeling that my birth gender didn’t fit. I remember being a kid freaking out whenever Maury or Dr. Phil would have episodes on trans people and I would recede further and further into the closet. I was about 12-13 when I would have been able to actually explain what was going on in understandable terms.
In college, I finally had enough and decided to do something about it. Once I flopped genders I sorta stopped caring about labels and subscribed to the gender and sexuality philosophy of if it works for me, it works. At the moment, I think Im a bisexual trans woman, but if it changes ever, oh well
A friend of mine asked me to take a Kinsey scale quiz for fun, and the result was that I was asexual. Then my friend said that didn’t seem right, so I retook it and it said I was bisexual.
It ws only when I met my boyfriend and developed feelings for him that I figured out: A) I think people are sexy, regardless of gender (hence my initial confused identification as bisexual); and B) I don’t need or want to have sexual intimacy with anyone, ever. Physical intimacy is fine, though.
I think my first hunch was when I watched V for Vendetta at age 12 and the sub-story about the lesbian couple really struck a cord in me. At that point I didn’t think that I was like them, but at the same time their harsh fate made me really afraid something similar was gonna happen to me. The experience was pretty confusing, and I eventually pushed it out of my mind.
Then I started 7th grade, and I became more confused because my friends were talking about cute guys and I did not get what the fuss was about. The final realisation came when I started 8th grade, so around when I was 14, because I developed a massive crush on my best friend at the time. Nothing came of it, but after that I knew I was definitely attracted to girls and not guys.
Around 16 I started realising my gender identity wasn’t cis either, but I only cleared up that conundrum last year at 25. After many conversations with my partner, I came to accept that I’m agender.
It’s all been quite the journey and I think I may still change along the way.
I think I figured out I was bi when I was around 12? I don’t remember exactly what spurred it, but the first female fictional character I remember thinking was hot was Franziska von Karma. God. She’s the ideal woman.
And tbh I’m just now starting to wonder if I may have more going on than just “cis chick” gender-wise. I’m pretty sure I’m a woman, but I might also be something else? Uhhhh if anyone has resources for figuring out if you may be multigender, or just wants to talk to me about it, that would be appreciated lol
the first female fictional character I remember thinking was hot was Franziska von Karma.
Wow, that is a throwback. I now want to replay through every Phoenix Wright game.
Uhhhh if anyone has resources for figuring out if you may be multigender
The gender dysphoria bible was a pretty enlightening read when I was beginning my gender crisis. Don’t let the word bible influence you into taking it as gospel, no document is perfect, but it does a pretty thorough job of explaining the different feelings characteristic of trans and non-binary people.
Wow, that link is something I wish I had when I was starting out 6 or so years ago. Reading through it with my partner right now, it does a great job of succinctly but comprehensively consolidating so many things that we had to pick up in bits and pieces over time.
Agreed, but also curse that darn site for starting to make me question things a lot (in a good way though hehe)
Just finished reading through it together, what an excellent resource. I especially liked and appreciated the explanations of gender euphoria and how it relates to gender dysphoria, one of the most thoughtful and clear articulations I’ve seen.
if anyone has resources for figuring out if you may be multigender, or just wants to talk to me about it, that would be appreciated lol
If you feel like the label woman isn’t enough to adequately describe your feelings around gender, simply add more labels. You don’t have to overthink it as some kinda strict box, like you must fit x criteria to identify as y.
Why do you need to be multi gender when you could just be idk yourself
Being multigender is valid. Let’s not go around criticizing someone’s identity. Be better than that.
I had the first inklings that I was bi when I was around 15ish. It wasn’t until I was 26 and tripping on shrooms that I really realized that I was bi.
How in the world did shrooms help?
I took some shrooms, had a shower, and then felt guilty about feeling “a lil gay” and then it just hit me how unfair it was that I had to feel guilt over something that comes naturally to me that I can’t control. Sorta opened up the emotional floodgates and it all came crashing down.
And I’m here wondering how on earth anyone realizes they’re queer without doing shrooms or other psychedelics.
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Well, let’s start with my sexuality. My awakening was when I was 12: I was reading a graphic novel of Eagle Strike by Anthony Horowitz and, well, looking back I think I fancied the protagonist. I thought I was pansexual for a while, but I noticed that my preference kept shifting. Eventually, I discovered that abrosexual was a thing, an that’s where I’m at now. I also think I might be demiromantic, but I’m still figuring it out.
As for my gender, it’s been hard to figure out. My awakening came when I accidentally said something in an androgynous voice, which I sort of liked. I then decided to investigate after I came out as pansexual (before I knew I was abro). As for the identity itself, I know I am not male, but sometimes I feel masculine or feminine or completely neutral, or nothing at all. Genderfluid, right? Nope! I tend to feel nothing for long periods (like, months at a time), and my masculinity and femininity are gone in minutes. So, agender? Wrong again; the masculine and feminine spikes still happen. Maybe agenderflux? Yeah, that kinda fits. Wait, no! That empty feeling is DEPRESSION! So just non-binary? Okay, yeah, I guess that covers all the bases.
I’m also ambiamorous, meaning I’d be comfortable in a monoamorous or polyamorous relationship. Either works, and I just sort of figured it out after talking to a polyamorous friend I used to sit next to in chemistry.
Overall, I think the people who have helped me discover who I am have to be my increasingly queer friend group, Powered By Rainbows, the good people of the LGBTQ+ subreddits, and of course Satan.
I’ve been Hellfire103 (17NB). Thank you for coming to my TED talk.
I always knew my gender was “wrong”. It was a workmate (and now close friend) transitioning that made me realise that my gender being “wrong” meant that I’m trans, and that transition was possible.
As for my orientation, that was a much longer and more confusing journey. It brought me so much more pain and uncertainty than my gender ever did. I’ve given up trying to find the right labels, but that’s more an admission of defeat than ownership of who I am.
I feel like orientation labels can be hard for trans and non-binary people because their definitions are so gender-dependant.
Like personally I’ve settled on bisexual, but as a slightly genderfluid non-binary person, my attraction to women and women changes significantly depending on how I’m feeling my gender (other enbies are always hot though, it just be like that).
I also had my trans realization after having two friends come out as non-binary within the same week. After two or so years of questioning my gender and browsing queer subreddits “as an ally”, I finally admitted it to myself. I then had two friends come out as well the next week, messaging me to thank me for the courage and inspiration I gave them. THIS is the “social contagion” conservatives are talking about, it’s not cishet people becoming queer, it’s closeted queer people coming to the realization that being queer in their community is possible and maybe even safe.
For me, it’s not the gender dependent part that makes it confusing. It’s more that I’ve got split attraction.
I’m panromantic, but heterosexual. Which in theory means that I’d be happier dating men, but as a relatively cis passing trans woman, being in a public relationship with a man basically erases my queerness. Still, I called myself straight to challenge the whole “you’re gay if you date a trans woman” narrative, but at the same time, I felt like calling myself straight was just further erasing my queerness.
And honestly, my relationships with women are for more connected, queer and emotionally rich. Those relationships feed my soul in a way that relationships with men never have.
So, I don’t call myself straight anymore. I don’t call myself bisexual or pansexual, because they don’t fit either, and “Panromantic heterosexual” just doesn’t mean anything to most people.
So “Queer” is where I ended up. And whilst I value my queerness, I feel like it lacks something as a complete label for my orientation
Oh definitely split attraction further complicates things.
For myself, I quite like queer as a general label. It feels like a rejection of sexuality, gender, and relationships as they’re presented in cisheteronormative society. And then if need be, we can use the more specific terms like “panromantic heterosexual” to further explain stuff to those cool people in the know.
And I know you already know this on an intellectual level, but it never hurts to have a reminder: one’s queerness is not dependent on who they’re currently in a relationship/having sex with!
And I know you already know this on an intellectual level, but it never hurts to have a reminder: one’s queerness is not dependent on who they’re currently in a relationship/having sex with!
What I’m looking for isn’t so much an internal sense of my own queerness, but more of the “queer as in fuck you” queerness, where my visible existence challenges the norms around me.
To misquote Tales From the City, “If two queers walk down a street and no one notices, are they even queer?”
That’s what I need my queerness to be. Not an internal feeling, but an active and explicit middle finger to the heteronormative bullshit that society puts on us that makes so many of us repress and hide from ourselves. And when I was just seen as another unqueer face in a crowd with an unqueer partner, I didn’t feel like I was challenging heteronormative bullshit. I felt like I was involuntarily assimilating in to it, and losing myself all over.
When I’m with my girlfriend, I get all of that. I love her, and I love that our happiness is a middle finger to the people who have told us we shouldn’t be who we are. Our little polycule is very much “queer as in fuck you”. But, I’m navigating my relationship with her around split attraction, and in some ways, trying to capture all of that with the single word “queer” feels like it loses something :)
This is all a very interesting perspective, thanks for sharing! For what it’s worth, I think living your true self is in itself “queer as in fuck you”.
Also related song suggestion for anyone reading who’s into queer punk: Queer as in Fuck You - Dog Park Dissidents
Living your true self is the most powerful thing you can do. But for me, my true self apparently needs to be visibly queer. I felt like I was losing myself when that wasn’t the case.
In my case, the “fuck you” part is in being able to give a shit eating grin to people who are uncomfortable with my existence, as opposed to those people just assuming I’m one of them. I want them to know that I am not :)
It’s going to sound pretty awful at first but I grew up in a very conservative area with conservative family (my dad being very conservative (like literally far-right now)) and queer folk made me pretty uncomfortable, so I was a homophobe for far too long. The encouragement of my dad and grandparents making it worse.
I also became an alcoholic at a very young age (12) and a part of that was how much queer people made me uncomfortable.
I was like 16ish when I became friends with a girl who got me to ask myself why they made me uncomfortable. And I realized it was because I was envious of them being able to openly be themselves which started a path of self discovery.
On that path to self discovery I discovered I was bi and eventually was in a polycule with that girl and a guy, both of which I wanted to spend the rest of my life with. Shitty things happened which led to both of them being gone now, but I’m still here and I’m going to carry on spreading love and hope to those who need it
I’m a polyamourous biromantic demisexual, and I’m proud of that fact. It took me too long to realize it, but I hope to be the person I should have been from when I was a kid. And I spread love and acceptance wherever I go. At the very least to honor what little memories of them I still have.
I hope to someday be the person that they knew I could be before I knew it myself.
Love is love people
