It was one of the most bizarre sex crimes in recent Tulsa history. Now it’s over, and both adults involved are headed to prison.
The 12-year-old girl showed up a Hillcrest Hospital in midtown Tulsa in July 2021 in labor.
The father-to-be apparently expected to walk out with the girl and their new bundle of joy.
“They walked in just like any other couple would, excited to deliver their newborn child,” Tulsa Police Officer Danny Bean told FOX23 News in 2021.
When the child, well below the age of consent, showed up to give birth, doctors immediately called Tulsa Police to report what was happening.
No one would have been in trouble if they were married. In Oklahoma, there are no age restrictions for marriage. An adult can marry a toddler if they want. Child marriage is a long-standing conservative tradition, unfortunately.
No one would have been in trouble if they were married
Would being married actually nullify age of consent laws though?
Genuinely asking.
Yes they do and to a cheryy on top. It does not grant the child the right to sign othet contracts. So they have to get permission to hire a divorce lawyer. American law, American order at it’s finest
Even with the lawyer they need permission for the divorce. Running away is often their only choice to avoid being constantly raped by an old man. In the USA. In 2023. https://www.unchainedatlast.org/united-states-child-marriage-problem-study-findings-april-2021/
Thats what i was saying
Wtf I did not know it went to new levels of horribleness
Just an FYI, minors CAN enter into contracts. It is true infancy imparts a lack of capacity. However, minors can still enter contracts. They are voidable at the election of the minor party until a reasonable time after reaching the age of maturity unless the contract is for necessities, then it is not voidable.
Most consent laws used to be written so that marriage would be an exception. Whether Oklahomas have or not is a toss up, but given that they didn’t add a lower limit on marriage age, I’d guess they haven’t updated many of those laws in a while.
Yes. If they were married, the sex would be legal.
That’s seriously fucked up. Even for the US.
I grew up in the south surrounded by conservatives. They absolutely don’t see the problem with it. Conservatives see all straight same-race weddings as “traditional marriage” which is “sanctified by god”, which transcends age and man’s law.
rape*
Rape is OK too. The bible does not actually condemn rape, especially of a spouse.
Condem it? It has rules for rape.
Exactly. The bible effectively endorses rape.
I disagree with the no age restrictions statement. That makes it sound like there are no restrictions. According to
, in Oklahoma, you have to be 18 to get married, 16 with a parent’s permission, and any age under 16 requires a court order.
I can’t imagine a use for court ordered marriage that would result in anything good.
Q:How did ma ma and pa pa meet?
A:our relationship was Court Ordered.
Literally the future incels want
One of my wife’s friends needed parental consent because she got married at 17 (to a guy a few years older). The whole thing worked out OKish - they’ve been together nearly 20 years, had a couple of kids, but I think they both recognise they got together too young, and wouldn’t otherwise be together today - though they have no plans to separate.
I can. By making it technically possible, you can divert attention.
One example would be for crazy edge situations. Like letting children with terminal illnesses fulfill their last wishes, or letting hormone ridden teens make their case to a judge, keeping them from more extreme actions.
But more practically, I think this is a great idea… 99.9% of anyone asking for this either needs court ordered mental evaluation and/or a referral to CPS to do a deep dig into the situation. By making it technically possible, that means anyone seriously pursuing this has to explain themselves to a judge.
Unfortunately our judicial system has a lot more to do with money than justice (so most people who would actually go through with this probably have the money to protect themselves from consequences), but this law would be a sensible part of a more perfect system… Granted this should almost never be granted by the court (terminally ill child is the only situation that makes sense to me), but there’s value in it
My opinion would change greatly if this is a real path to child marriage rather than a mostly theoretical possibility
any age under 16 requires a court order.
i wonder under what circumstances this happens.
mostly when the girl is raped by her future husband and the family did want to live with the shame/sin of sex before marriage. So they just marry off the girl and pretend the sex happened after the wedding
that’s not what a court order is.
But it is what pushes courts to allow or fill out an order for a child marriage
Don’t give them any ideas…
I felt like this couldn’t possibly be true. I was wrong.
You must not know many American conservatives. Child marriage is a big thing for them.
An adult can marry a toddler if they want.
No way that’s true. How is this the top comment?
Even if hyperbole, come on. Even famously backwards Oklahoma isn’t that bad. Jesus.
How do you have an entire fucking family show up for a baby shower and not one god damn person says a thing? How do these people show up at a hospital with a pregnant 12 year old thinking this was going to have a happy ending?
That’s some George Costanza shit right there. “Was I not supposed to impregnate 12 year olds? Because I had no idea. I mean if someone had told me that was frowned on around here, I never would’ve done it.”
The rapist was at the hospital for delivery and proudly told everyone he was the dad, even the police that the hospital called…
Cops said even after he was in the cop car he didn’t understand why he was being arrested.
It’s god’s plan!
Source: uncle is a Christian fundie
REPUBLICANS is how
generational dysfunction. this type of thing is normal for them. i bet this kind of thing has happened in their family before.
Please do not compare funny man George to this piece of human garbage.
After reading the title, I did not expect this to get even more fucked up
Miranda-Jara was initially in a relationship with the girl’s mother but when things soured between the two, mom allowed Miranda-Jara to move on to her then-12-year-old daughter. Eventually, they would begin living together as a couple
That is fuckin’ WILD. Holy shit.
RAPE! She helped him RAPE!
GET THE FUCKING HEADLINES CORRECT.
A 12 year old did not “get pregnant by grown man.” She was FUCKING RAPED!
Holy shit, it implies the issue here was the getting pregnant. There’s a little something that occurred before that and it was called RAPE!
I would also point out the human trafficking by pimping out your own child. Really need some sort of extra charge for that one, something about abusing a position of power.
There actually is in a lot of states. There is a specific charge for, “sexual abuse on a child from a position of trust”, that is specifically used for parental guardians. The charge is treated as a higher class than just sexual abuse on a child by itself, and I think the minimum is around 10 years for it. It should probably be higher considering people go to prison longer for drug charges, but at least its something.
I learned this from watching too many true crime documentaries.
Yes, that was what I was eluding too as well. Most nations have some form of tack on sentence for abuse of a trusted position.
Alluding to
eluding
Ah yes, I was indeed confusing away from toward.
I’m not sure whether the rape or the non-consentual pregnancy and forced birth is worse…
Then there’s the fate of the child born to the kind of monster that would pay to do this…
I read this article about an underage marriage, and while it explains how they get to that point in a more specific way, these are still men who rape children incapable of consent. No matter how you slice it, it’s rape.
The last sentence is a punch in the gut.
“The girl’s father was in prison for a separate sex crime and has no involvement in his daughter’s life, Tulsa Police told FOX23 News at the time of the incident.”
Yeah that girl is an orphan AND a mother. Fuck.
This is obviously disturbing and disgusting. But, are we not going to talk about those eyebrows?
Juggalette
Holy shit those are eyebrows.
I thought a crow was flying between me and my monitor.
poverty man
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it’s actually much easier to not do anything, than draw on eye brows with a marker.
Is that some sort of hideous super hero?
The weird thing is they resemble his eyebrows
When I first saw the photo of the rapist I thought he was wearing a MAGA hat. I guess he might as well be.
Disturbing and disgusting.
I think we can talk about both. Why do they look like punctuation marks somehow?
How is this going to work out legally for the girl and her baby? The girl isn’t even old enough to have her own bank account. Is she old enough to make parental decisions for her baby? Will the state take the baby away from her?
As terrible as it is, I wonder if that might be for the best.
The State will take the baby. I guess there are no good outcomes here. I expect both children are currently in care.
Yeah, a “good” outcome is unrealistic. I think the best we can hope for is the “least terrible” outcome.
The good outcome would have been someone shooting the mother and the rapist before they traumatized the poor kid.
I feel terrible for agreeing with this, but it’s true. This poor little girl literally would have been less traumatized if someone just killed her parents.
From the many times I’ve seen this type of incident on the news (unfortunately), they usually place the baby in the care of relatives first if possible.
If theres a responsible relative who wants their nieces/granddaughters/cousins rapists baby…sure.
The baby of a rapist is still just a baby and I believe that most people consider them equally deserving of care as any other baby.
I think most people would at least consider it. Ultimately the child is innocent, and related to you by blood. Totally understandable that the mother may not want to raise a child like resulting from rape, but for the rest of the family the relationship to the child is the same as any other niece or cousin or whatever.
the baby didn’t do anything wrong, and deserves to be loved and cared for just like any other baby.
states do prefer kinship adoption as a first option.
Give her the book for what she did to her child
And add time for those eyebrows
God I didn’t even notice the eyebrows…
Actually seeing HTTP 451 in the wild though
There are literally hundreds of child marriages in the US every year.
Which all need to stop unless they fall under Romeo and Juliet laws.
Honestly as unpopular as it is for me to say…, those need to be stopped too… no one should be getting married as teens when they can’t vote or sign a contract legally…
Romeo and Juliet laws are fine for consent purposes, but yeah… They can wait for marriage until they’re both adults.
Too many weird ways that people can technically get away with selling children.For consent, yes! But the contract/marriage part… I think they are more dangerous than good.
Shouldn’t be that unpopular, really. Under those laws, a 16 year old can marry an 18 year old no problem. But, if things aren’t so great a year later (and let’s be honest, we all know people who’ve had those marriages), the now 17 year old needs permission from their adult spouse (parents don’t count anymore, since marriage also emancipates them) to retain an attorney or file for divorce.
Giving the maximum benefit of doubt here and assuming that Romeo and Juliette laws are an honest attempt not to saddle young lovers with a lifetime offender registration, the marriage component of them should be scrapped.
Couldn’t agree more!!
The girl’s father was in prison for a separate sex crime and has no involvement in his daughter’s life, Tulsa Police told FOX23 News at the time of the incident.
so i guess that explains why she was comfortable with allowing an adult to rape her daughter. these are the kind of men she dates.
NOAH
GET THE MOTHER FUCKING BOAT
Everyone in this case is just stupid, and stupid people aren’t a threat to society, and putting these people in prison hurts the already-traumatized girl even further. She should be removed from the home and both adults should be liable for child support while also under a no-contact order until the child is 18 and can decide to continue it or not.
This probably doesn’t need to be said but Oklahoma is a shitty hellscape.
Sure, let’s just ignore all the rape because the defendants are stupid.
As you can see by reading my post, I did not ignore the sexual assault.
However, no one gains from these people being imprisoned and people who want others “punished” should not be in the room when adult decisions are being made.
A vengeance-based prison system is immoral to the point of being evil, and a sign of barbarism in the person advocating for it.
You totally ignored the sexual assault. You said it’s just “stupidity.” Raping an 11-year old girl is a lot more than stupidity. They all need to go to prison.
My comment is pretty short and this should not be difficult to parse. I never forgot nor justified the sexual assault.
My other point is that your personal feelings here
A) are objectively wrong
B) are evil
I wouldn’t say you justified, buuuuuuut, you are literally reducing the punishment of the adults because of some perceived additional damage to the abused child. Which almost totally removes the accountability for the act, the only accountability in this case is separation, which would need to be done either way.
I would say this girl has been so unprotected by her guardians and the rest of the family that separation will be a net positive for her in the future.
You’re characterization of the other person’s totally normal opinion as evil tells me everything I need to know about you tho.
literally reducing the punishment of the adults
Yes. Punishment is meaningless in the current prison system and has no reason to exist other than to slake the bloodthirst of the populace.
If someone is not an imminent threat to others they should not be imprisoned.
You say the person who proudly rapes kids isn’t a threat to anyone? Go back to Reddit and stop trying to give Lemmy a bad name.
The dude who was in the relationship to the 12 year old and either didn’t realize his impact or didn’t care, as well as the mother you mean? I would argue they continue to pose a real danger to the daughter, and that man committed an egregious act of abuse on a child who was at worse coerced and at best a victim of a much older person.
I have no trust he won’t engage in this same behavior again. Unless you think it was just an exceptional 12 year old? Like have you met any 12 year olds so wise and beautiful you forgot about the fact they were 12 and just wanted to fuck a baby into them?
Although I totally agree that the prison system in the US is a sort of torture/slave labor system and many of the people engaged in that system are due to circumstances rather than “crime”.
Absolutely not the case here, this is a pretty easy call to make imo!
Once again for the folks in the back…
A vengeance-based prison system is immoral to the point of being evil, and a sign of barbarism in the person advocating for it.
Without rehabilitation and lower recidivism it only makes things worse not better for society. More and better rehabilitation programs are needed. And we need to do a far, far better job of addressing poverty and child abuse.
Also, privatized prisons stand in the way of achieving the greater good here. Sort of like privatized healthcare and health insurance.
In this case we do gain, because less stupid people will otherwise go scotts free with playing stupid.
The law must consider intent to a certain degree, but it cannot be bent all the way if someone is considered too stupid to think about his own behaviour as problematic.
If we’re putting stupid people in prison for being stupid, were going to need a LOT more prisons.
People have a right to defend themselves. If society refuses to protect us by locking up criminals then you better loosen self defence laws A LOT and prepare for violence.
Nah. You can just stop being afraid all the time
“Hey 11 year old girl, just stop being afraid of being constantly raped by a grown man, it’ll fix everything.”
I’m clearly talking about you, and not her
No you’re not since I’m not the same guy you were replying to. You have some SERIOUS deeply set mental issues that require serious time in therapy, I hope you get the help you so desperately need.
I’m all for abolishing the vengeance-based system we have, but deterrence is a thing. So is keeping dangerous people away from potential victims. Obviously it only works to a point, and some people won’t be deterred no matter what, so unreasonably harsh penalties don’t help, but if people are allowed to rape children right out in the open with no consequences, more people are definitely gonna do it, because wanting to rape children is such a common thing there’s a whole political party that wants to make it legal (and has succeeded in many cases).
Hey thanks for at least not assuming I’m a pedophile because I have issues with the criminal justice system
I’m sure there’s a middle ground here wed find mutually acceptable
Ugh, people who do that are the worst.
We imprison rapists to ensure they do not harm others.
Violent rapists are indeed some of the few people I do support prison (with heavy reforms) for. They tend to have crazy high recidivism rates and need rehabilitation before release.
Honestly 95+% of rapists go free, so I lean toward restorative justice models, too, personally. Gotta destigmatize offenders getting help while taking accountability and helping victims. I say this as a victim of rape btw, and sexual assault, and harassment and distribution of sexual material without my consent. Prisons aren’t a viable solution.
Stupid people are absolutely a threat to society if they vote.
Not really relevant to the discussion
You said word for word that "stupid people are not a threat to society ". How is my comment not relevant to the discussion?
Because I clearly meant a danger than must be locked away, since literally every context clue is pointing in that direction
But they are a danger
They raped/enabled rape
That little girl is part of society, after all
She will likely have been raped again if they were free
Man I definitely should have mentioned that they should not be allowed near her.
In fact maybe I should have written that clearly, and elaborated upon it, in my op
Wait I did
And what about other 12 year old girls he may encounter? Or is she guaranteed to be the only one he’d ever rape
In your head maybe.
I’m sorry you’re near-illiterate :(
Talking to yourself isn’t healthy.
Maybe not so clearly.
Maybe read more. Idk what to tell you
Maybe work on your clarity. IDK what to tell you.
You should have to have the words:
“I think pedophiles aren’t a threat to society and shouldn’t go to prison”
Tattooed on your face for the rest of your life.
You should have “I am a monster” tattooed on you for the rest of your life
…Because I think people that rape kids (a crime) should go to prison?
Okay you’re definitely just a troll. No one is that stupid.
I don’t get what you’re not understanding
No I get it now. I checked your profile and saw all your le epic trolling XD. Enjoy wasting your life with that shit dude.
Everything I post I genuinely believe.
The downside of being smart is not a lot of people agree with you.
Okay that one was pretty funny, I’ll give you that 😂
Fucking WILD comment you have made here my man. Maybe just turn yourself in to the police or a psych ward?
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“one of the most bizarre sex crimes in recent Tulsa history” is a pretty specific statement and makes that city sound terrible.
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I wonder if the two adults are also related, their eyebrows look too alike for them not to be.
