If you’ve paid attention at all to what he’s done domestically over the past 3 years, you’d know it’s not at all a farce. I’ll vote for Biden any day, but especially when his opposition is a Republican.
No, I guarantee you Trump would be saying much, much worse. Trump broke with prior Republican orthodoxy over Israel - to become more fervently pro-Israel.
They’re both bad on the Israel-Palestinian conflict. They’re not even fucking close to equally bad. And few other people in their parties would be better.
We’re essentially talking about the Trolley Problem here. Vote for Biden, support genocide. Don’t vote, worse genocide happens due to your inaction.
Are you willing to stake the country’s future on enough people being prepared to pull the lever and divert the trolley? Because that’s what Democrats are currently doing.
It’s risky as hell and the stakes are monstrous and we’re being put in this situation by politicians who want us to treat them like they’re not acting like Snidely Whiplash.
Oh, you’re ready to watch it all burn down? That’s just swell. You’re not just going to sit on your ass and wait for someone else to burn it down, right? Because that would just be letting the worse candidate win so you can keep your hands ‘clean’ because you’re in a position comfortable enough to sit on your hands and play the part of the moralist as others suffer, so long as you don’t examine your own inaction too closely.
Clearly comfortable enough to embrace it getting worse. Some of us will quite literally die without government-subsidized healthcare, or food assistance, or social security, all things on the GOP chopping block. You want to watch my grandparents die they’re kicked out on the streets and unable to pay rent or food? Want to watch me vomit blood until I exsanguinate because the medication the government subsidizes is hundreds of dollars more a month than I make, period, much less can afford? You have fun with that. I sure as shit won’t.
If all you do is vote once every other year, what right do you have to say that person should do more to support their ideas than you do for yours? People who say what you say also say stuff like “I dont like biden but . . .” And no one asks them to prove they tried to field a better candidate than Biden to prove it.
If you’re voting for someone you consider the ‘less evil’ option but then do nothing to fix the evil you voted for, you’re exactly the same as the person you criticized.
That doesn’t make your statement less hypocritical. You didn’t call them out for wanting a civil war, you called them out for only voting to achieve their goals.
And you don’t care about anyone but yourself? I guess you’re not interested in climate change. You won’t live to see the results, so burn all the oil you want, right?
The different is that Trump and his baffoons talk big but don’t know how to actually do the things they say.
Biden knows how to effectively do the things he does, which from what I have seen is mostly making half assed “attempts” to do good things and letting them die at the first sign of opposition to create the illusion that he isn’t evil for his neo-progressive kool aid drinkers, but being really effective about keeping a genocide going.
But who would you vote for if it was him vs Trump (which it likely will be)? Republicans will vote for Trump as a cohesive unit. We don’t have the luxury of voting for who we want in the general if we want to keep enjoying democracy.
No. But I enjoy this more than fascism, and likely all of those things you listed will get measurably worse under a second term of Trump armed with Project 2025.
So your entire hope is based on the idea that “This is currently fascism, and has been fascism for decades now, but if we let it get just a LITTLE bit worse, then The Revolution will totally rise up and overthrow this whole system!”?
Hopefully? What a batshit insane notion. “Yeah, I hope my friends and family die in a civil war fighting fascists.” We don’t have to go to war, but if people act like they’re entitled to the “perfect” candidate earning their vote and are unwilling to make compromises, then Trump and the Heritage Foundation have already won.
Kinda fucking funny that a guy who is whining about “genocide enabling” wants a bunch of innocent civilians slaughtered in some fucked up idea of a “revolution”
“I’m not enjoying this on an abstract level, therefore, let the worst candidate win and make everything even worse. Fuck these other, poor people who actually struggle to get by on what meager assistance they receive. They can get less, so long as I don’t have to make a choice.”
I hope not. You seem to understand what’s at stake, rather than believing beyond all sense and reason that there will be another democratic election post-Project 2025.
Don’t worry. I promised myself I wouldn’t off myself after my last attempt until I truly saw no way out. I’ll wait 'til the Gestapo are knocking at the doors. Til then, I’ll be doing what little I can to get milquetoast centrists elected, because as much as I’d like something better, I’m also under no illusion that making things worse will give some sort of ‘do-over’.
Just like in H. W. Bush v Dukakis, liberals will refuse to vote for someone who does not align with their ideals (and there isn’t a much bigger thing that liberals do not tolerate than genocide).
This will lead to a HORRIBLE period of time. The Republicans will do what the Republicans do, and it will be because the Democrats just cant help themselves and NEED to fuck it up.
Then, after America has gone through another hellish term or 3 of Republicans, the Democrats will finally feel forced to gasp represent their constituents again, they will produce an actual decent candidate, and we will have a repeat of the Clinton/Gore years.
This has all happened before. Not even that long ago. Nearly play by play.
Then, after America has gone through another hellish term or 3 of Republicans, the Democrats will finally feel forced to gasp represent their constituents again, they will produce an actual decent candidate, and we will have a repeat of the Clinton/Gore years.
When the fuck has this happened, again? Allowing the GOP to push the narrative right for over a decade doesn’t give you a fucking Newton’s law equal reaction towards the left. It just makes politics as a whole more right-leaning. This whole “Let’s lose so we can win!” bull is nothing but wishful thinking.
What, Clinton/Gore? You mean the administration responsible for pulling the Democratic party to the neoliberal right? That’s your fucking hoped-for reaction?
Clinton repealed Glass-Steagall. That is a huge reason for our financial situation right now. It was a big gift to Republicans and the rich. Clinton was a terrible president. He was better than Bush would have been and better than Dole, but I’m not going to go much farther than that. He was as right as you could get (at the time) for a Democrat.
Your proposed scenario will never happen. Have you even read Project 2025’s goals? If they get their guy in office, there won’t be a “hellish term or three of Republicans,” followed by Democrats waking up, because by then, it will be too late, and your vote literally won’t matter anymore.
You’re gonna catch a lot of shit from people who don’t like the idea that this is the political calculus of many people whose votes Democrats consider themselves entitled to receive, regardless of what positions Democrats hold and what policies they implement.
These people have never considered for a fraction of an instant that votes are something politicians earn, not demand, and are insulted by the vile blasphemy that “not Trump, I guess” isn’t some people’s exclusive criterion for evaluating a candidate.
This is a blatant straw man. You’re labelling me “these people” and saying I “never considered for a fraction of an instant that votes are something politicians earn,” etc., which is an utter falsehood. I’m entirely aware of Biden’s record, the legislation he has supported, the legislation he’s been able to get passed, and his foreign policy. No, I do not agree with him 100% of the time, but yes, I agree with him probably 80% of the time, and hell yes he’s earned my vote. If anything, he’s overperformed from my expectations when he took office.
Fuck your “holier than thou” attitude like you have access to some special information. You’re a fucking fool on the internet like the rest of us. Have some goddamn humility
deleted by creator
If you’ve paid attention at all to what he’s done domestically over the past 3 years, you’d know it’s not at all a farce. I’ll vote for Biden any day, but especially when his opposition is a Republican.
deleted by creator
No, I guarantee you Trump would be saying much, much worse. Trump broke with prior Republican orthodoxy over Israel - to become more fervently pro-Israel.
They’re both bad on the Israel-Palestinian conflict. They’re not even fucking close to equally bad. And few other people in their parties would be better.
We’re essentially talking about the Trolley Problem here. Vote for Biden, support genocide. Don’t vote, worse genocide happens due to your inaction.
Are you willing to stake the country’s future on enough people being prepared to pull the lever and divert the trolley? Because that’s what Democrats are currently doing.
It’s risky as hell and the stakes are monstrous and we’re being put in this situation by politicians who want us to treat them like they’re not acting like Snidely Whiplash.
deleted by creator
Oh, you’re ready to watch it all burn down? That’s just swell. You’re not just going to sit on your ass and wait for someone else to burn it down, right? Because that would just be letting the worse candidate win so you can keep your hands ‘clean’ because you’re in a position comfortable enough to sit on your hands and play the part of the moralist as others suffer, so long as you don’t examine your own inaction too closely.
Right?
deleted by creator
Clearly comfortable enough to embrace it getting worse. Some of us will quite literally die without government-subsidized healthcare, or food assistance, or social security, all things on the GOP chopping block. You want to watch my grandparents die they’re kicked out on the streets and unable to pay rent or food? Want to watch me vomit blood until I exsanguinate because the medication the government subsidizes is hundreds of dollars more a month than I make, period, much less can afford? You have fun with that. I sure as shit won’t.
deleted by creator
If all you do is vote once every other year, what right do you have to say that person should do more to support their ideas than you do for yours? People who say what you say also say stuff like “I dont like biden but . . .” And no one asks them to prove they tried to field a better candidate than Biden to prove it.
If you’re voting for someone you consider the ‘less evil’ option but then do nothing to fix the evil you voted for, you’re exactly the same as the person you criticized.
I’m not advocating a fucking civil war.
That doesn’t make your statement less hypocritical. You didn’t call them out for wanting a civil war, you called them out for only voting to achieve their goals.
I hope you’re white, Christian, heterosexual and male. Otherwise Trump is going to make your life a living hell.
But hey, at least you can say you didn’t vote for Biden when you’re in the concentration camp.
deleted by creator
And you don’t care about anyone but yourself? I guess you’re not interested in climate change. You won’t live to see the results, so burn all the oil you want, right?
deleted by creator
You’re not gonna do shit.
But by all means, light a torch and see where that gets you. I’m sure it’ll be really far.
Here’s a reason why he was so pro-Israel, or at least pro-Netanyahu: https://www.thenation.com/article/world/trump-israel-collusion/
The different is that Trump and his baffoons talk big but don’t know how to actually do the things they say.
Biden knows how to effectively do the things he does, which from what I have seen is mostly making half assed “attempts” to do good things and letting them die at the first sign of opposition to create the illusion that he isn’t evil for his neo-progressive kool aid drinkers, but being really effective about keeping a genocide going.
deleted by creator
“I’m more fascist than those fascists!”
But who would you vote for if it was him vs Trump (which it likely will be)? Republicans will vote for Trump as a cohesive unit. We don’t have the luxury of voting for who we want in the general if we want to keep enjoying democracy.
Sounds like Biden has work to do.
If the people in this post are any indication, he definitely does. Uniting the Left is like herding cats.
With the Right, all you gotta do is give them a minority to be angry at, and they’ll mash that R button until their fingers bleed.
Maybe they should start using catnip instead of the spray bottle.
I guess we’ll just sit around and hope that if we just keep voting for garbage candidates, a good one will just come along. What a good system.
deleted by creator
No. But I enjoy this more than fascism, and likely all of those things you listed will get measurably worse under a second term of Trump armed with Project 2025.
deleted by creator
So your entire hope is based on the idea that “This is currently fascism, and has been fascism for decades now, but if we let it get just a LITTLE bit worse, then The Revolution will totally rise up and overthrow this whole system!”?
deleted by creator
So that’s a ‘yes’ then?
Jesus Christ.
deleted by creator
This reads like you realize you lost the argument but are trying to save face by acting manly
deleted by creator
Hopefully? What a batshit insane notion. “Yeah, I hope my friends and family die in a civil war fighting fascists.” We don’t have to go to war, but if people act like they’re entitled to the “perfect” candidate earning their vote and are unwilling to make compromises, then Trump and the Heritage Foundation have already won.
Kinda fucking funny that a guy who is whining about “genocide enabling” wants a bunch of innocent civilians slaughtered in some fucked up idea of a “revolution”
“I’m not enjoying this on an abstract level, therefore, let the worst candidate win and make everything even worse. Fuck these other, poor people who actually struggle to get by on what meager assistance they receive. They can get less, so long as I don’t have to make a choice.”
deleted by creator
Oh? You mean like how fascism motivated change in Fascist Italy and Nazi Germany?
Have fun in the fucking camps. I’ll probably off myself before that.
deleted by creator
I hope not. You seem to understand what’s at stake, rather than believing beyond all sense and reason that there will be another democratic election post-Project 2025.
Don’t worry. I promised myself I wouldn’t off myself after my last attempt until I truly saw no way out. I’ll wait 'til the Gestapo are knocking at the doors. Til then, I’ll be doing what little I can to get milquetoast centrists elected, because as much as I’d like something better, I’m also under no illusion that making things worse will give some sort of ‘do-over’.
This post has been wild. I honestly never ran into left-wing accelerationists until today.
It sounds like you’d rather things get much worse, because you think that will make things better. Is that what you think?
deleted by creator
You have hope that there’s civil violence coming? You’re fucked up dude
deleted by creator
“I’m willing to sacrifice as many of you as it will take to get my way!”
Just like in H. W. Bush v Dukakis, liberals will refuse to vote for someone who does not align with their ideals (and there isn’t a much bigger thing that liberals do not tolerate than genocide).
This will lead to a HORRIBLE period of time. The Republicans will do what the Republicans do, and it will be because the Democrats just cant help themselves and NEED to fuck it up.
Then, after America has gone through another hellish term or 3 of Republicans, the Democrats will finally feel forced to gasp represent their constituents again, they will produce an actual decent candidate, and we will have a repeat of the Clinton/Gore years.
This has all happened before. Not even that long ago. Nearly play by play.
When the fuck has this happened, again? Allowing the GOP to push the narrative right for over a decade doesn’t give you a fucking Newton’s law equal reaction towards the left. It just makes politics as a whole more right-leaning. This whole “Let’s lose so we can win!” bull is nothing but wishful thinking.
I literally just told you.
What, Clinton/Gore? You mean the administration responsible for pulling the Democratic party to the neoliberal right? That’s your fucking hoped-for reaction?
Jesus H. Christ.
SMH my head.
You’re mixing up which Clinton dragged the party to the right.
… am I? Which Clinton is the leftist, here? Please, tell me about how Bill wasn’t actually a neoliberal?
Or worse, tell me how Hillary is actually a leftist?
Both Clintons dragged the party to the right, dude.
Clinton repealed Glass-Steagall. That is a huge reason for our financial situation right now. It was a big gift to Republicans and the rich. Clinton was a terrible president. He was better than Bush would have been and better than Dole, but I’m not going to go much farther than that. He was as right as you could get (at the time) for a Democrat.
Your proposed scenario will never happen. Have you even read Project 2025’s goals? If they get their guy in office, there won’t be a “hellish term or three of Republicans,” followed by Democrats waking up, because by then, it will be too late, and your vote literally won’t matter anymore.
Okay chicken little.
Good luck with your genocide.
I won’t support it.
It must be nice, imagining that you have the privilege of a choice.
Spineless fanatics like you are why we are here.
That’s a new one.
Get used to it if you support genocide and in the same breath try to claim moral high ground.
Meaning you haven’t read Project 2025’s goals. Telorand isn’t Chicken Little, they’re Cassandra.
You’re gonna catch a lot of shit from people who don’t like the idea that this is the political calculus of many people whose votes Democrats consider themselves entitled to receive, regardless of what positions Democrats hold and what policies they implement.
These people have never considered for a fraction of an instant that votes are something politicians earn, not demand, and are insulted by the vile blasphemy that “not Trump, I guess” isn’t some people’s exclusive criterion for evaluating a candidate.
This is a blatant straw man. You’re labelling me “these people” and saying I “never considered for a fraction of an instant that votes are something politicians earn,” etc., which is an utter falsehood. I’m entirely aware of Biden’s record, the legislation he has supported, the legislation he’s been able to get passed, and his foreign policy. No, I do not agree with him 100% of the time, but yes, I agree with him probably 80% of the time, and hell yes he’s earned my vote. If anything, he’s overperformed from my expectations when he took office.
Fuck your “holier than thou” attitude like you have access to some special information. You’re a fucking fool on the internet like the rest of us. Have some goddamn humility
It’s an accurate prediction. He has caught a lot of shit.
If you don’t consider yourself entitled to dictate how others vote, then I’m not talking about you.
If you do, then I absolutely am talking about you in perfectly accurate terms. And considering that a hit dog will holler…
You think voting for Trump or not voting will help any of that? Think again. It will make it way worse.