As opposed to the absolute nightmare of finding executables on random websites, downloading them, running an installer program, pressing next a bunch of times, then deleting the installer afterwards.
App management is something Linux does very well, and Windows very poorly.
On no other OS is it the norm to do it like you’re expected to do it on Windows.
I can chat about bad points in Linux all day, I’m not blind to the faults of any of these OSes, but a Windows user saying installing software on Linux is hard really does have me giggling
E: pictures say a thousand words. Here’s the difference:
E2: people still saying installing apps in Windows is easier despite photographic evidence to the contrary cannot be helped. You’ve gone too deep. Next you’ll be saying climate change isn’t real and the earth is flat lmao. The evidence is right there in front of you!
I’m afraid Linux is more complex for most regular people.
Yes, a lot of stuff is managed by a package manager (though you have to decide between 2-3 options of the same app, as one is flatpak and one is something else you’ve never come across before) and when that works, it’s great. But it’s far from comprehensive.
I’d rather press ‘next’ or ‘ok’ a few times than have to learn an entirely new and non-intuituve language and interface just to add an app or driver that is among the 20% of stuff that still won’t just work out the box.
I really don’t know where you’re getting this impression from.
I search for software. It’s there, I see an install button. I press it. You can click a drop down to pick between, say, an RPM package or a flatpak, but it’s not something a normal user would do.
Installing windows programs, as I’ve already said, is a lot more than just pressing ok. It relies on knowing what site to pick, finding the download page, picking the right installer, finding the exe you downloaded, going through the install wizard, deleting the installer after.
It’s not easier. IMO app management is the biggest weakness of Windows. There’s a reason genuinely no other OS has that as the standard way to install programs.
I don’t understand the part about learning a new language either? What? I open the app store, I search, I press install. There’s no need for multiple languages? And the interface is a lot more intuitive than finding the right download on every single website, that all look different, and going through every installer, most of which look different.
Seriously, if you were talking about idk, HDR or gaming (outside of emulation where it’s a solid Linux win) or something, I’d be agreeing with you and saying Windows is easier, despite Valve getting Linux pretty close.
But installing programs? Nah, Windows is the one that’s a complicated clusterfuck. People are just used to it so they don’t really think about it.
E: lmao you people are downvoting yet you can’t refute it. Stop simping for a $2.8tn dollar company. I’ve already proven what I’ve said is true. Me criticising an OS isn’t a personal attack lol, stop fanboying.
I’m getting this impression as someone who just installed Linux mint, because people like yourself who say there won’t be problems and it will all just work. It didn’t. There were problems, and there still are.
Even on Linux I still have to search online for info and for what app to install to meet my needs. Which also relies on knowing what site to trust, and what info you find varies hugely from helpful to incomprehensible for a beginner. Especially when there’s a hundred unfamiliar options.
The whole finding downloading and installing something on windows is straightforward for most people. Search, go to site, select, install, follow instructions. Done. I’m not sure why you’re making it sound like some frought and impenetrable nightmare. There’s also the windows app store for (like the mint package manager) about 80% of stuff.
Honestly, I don’t find the package manager much different, since I still need to search for something (to identify the right software / tool etc). And hope it’s included in the package manager. Then I’m asked to approve some dependencys that I have no way, as a beginner, of evaluating of they’re safe or not. So just click ok, and just have to trust the package manager / software (Another click) is safe. No different to me that some downloaded executable on windows.
And as for the different versions, yes, I mean why are there two or three versions of Firefox when I search in the Mint package manager? What makes flatpak ine different from the other one? How can I evaluate ? As a new user, even the descriptions don’t help.
And when I say a new language, I’m talking about having to go into the terminal (?) And enter a bunch of unfamiliar commands that I have no idea if they’re the right or safe thing to do, In order to be able to get something to work. In my case a switch pro controller and an Xbox one controller (when the pro didn’t work). Both of which just work on windows. That’s just one example, and I don’t think it’s an especially unique or niche one for someone coming from windows. Got them to work on Yuzu, but wouldn’t work with a browser for some reason.
To be clear, I’m not dissing Linux (nor you!) I just don’t believe it’s easier that Windows, nor does it yet feel ready to help a new user do fairly ‘normal’ stuff they might want to. I also recently started using a Mac, and while that was laerning curve, it was still far more novice friendly than Mint. In my experience.
I’m getting this impression as someone who just installed Linux mint, because people like yourself who say there won’t be problems
Anybody who tells you you won’t experience any issues on a piece of software as large, capable, and complex as a desktop OS is lying. Don’t tell me I’m a person who’d say that, because I’m not. You will face an issue from time to time on Linux. You will face an issue from time to time on Windows. You will face an issue from time to time on MacOS.
Even on Linux I still have to search online for info and for what app to install to meet my needs. Which also relies on knowing what site to trust, and what info you find varies hugely from helpful to incomprehensible for a beginner. Especially when there’s a hundred unfamiliar options.
Applies just as much to Windows (or Mac) as it does to Linux. We aren’t born with intimate knowledge of every program ever made.
At least on Mac or Linux the app stores (that people actually use btw) have app categories and spotlights on apps to help you find good ones.
The whole finding downloading and installing something on windows is straightforward
I’m sorry but no it isn’t. You’re just used to it. There’s a difference. It’s an awful and potentially dangerous way to get software. It’s worse and it’s needlessly cumbersome and complicated.
I keep repeating this, but there is a reason nobody else follows that model.
To me, it’s a fatal flaw in Windows that Microsoft needs to sort out. I’m struggling to even sum up in words how much of a broken system it is. There’s no defending it. Even Microsoft themselves acknowledge it’s a broken system.
E: pictures say a thousand words. Here’s the difference:
Come on. Don’t try to gaslight me into thinking that’s intuitive, straightforward, or convenient. Because it isn’t. You’re lying to me and to yourself.
There’s also the windows app store
Which has barely any apps, a malware problem, and is full of open source apps uploaded by people who aren’t the original developer, charging money for them. Even the most die hard windows fans think the Windows store is bad.
And when I say a new language, I’m talking about having to go into the terminal (?) And enter a bunch of unfamiliar commands
You don’t need to use the terminal. I could make this same complaint about the command prompt, powershell, or windows terminal (why are there 3, btw, Microsoft?! Why make this needlessly confusing??) Or about having to navigate the nightmare that is the Windows Registry when something doesn’t work.
In my case a switch pro controller and an Xbox one controller (when the pro didn’t work). Both of which just work on windows.
Huh. I have the opposite experience. I plug a controlled into my Linux PC, it just works. Not the same on windows. Ironically, Microsoft’s own controllers work better on Linux than they do on Windows. And don’t get me started on using PlayStation controllers on Windows.
Just to set the record straight: I’m not trying to gaslight you. I’m sharing my newbie Linux journey, which hasn’t been as smooth as I hoped.
Linux’s centralised app management is neat, but for a Windows convert, figuring out which Linux apps to use isn’t straightforward. Deciding between numerous unfamiliar software options isn’t much different from the Windows method you described – it’s just swapping out the final step of installer downloads for package manager searches. What I’m saying is that, yes, you’re technicallycorrect. But in terms of pratical experience, the difference isn’t that significant.
The package manager is a mixed bag. Yes, it’s probably safer, but as a beginner, I’m still placing my trust in it blindly, just like I would with any Windows software site. And navigating it? It’s like a sweet shop, but one where I can’t tell one sweet from another. Maybe I don’t need to? Maybe there’s actually some huge benefit or negative of one version over the other? I don’t know, I’ll have to research it… again.
The descriptions don’t tell me either. For instance, my Linux Mint shows two versions of VLC (one with the familiar icon), and a bunch of other VLC stuff, which I’m sure is super helpful for people who need whatever they are, but it leaves me baffled.
Then there’s the terminal – Linux’s “user-friendly” feature (/s). To fix something as simple as a controller, I’m thrust into a world of cryptic commands, that, unless I want to spend weeks learning, I have to take on faith aren’t the linux equivalent of deleting system32… It’s a steep climb compared to the familiar process of downloading and installing drivers on Windows.
So, while I recognise each OS has its strengths and weaknesses, for someone fresh to Linux, it can feel like you need a Computer Science degree for what’s a walk in the park on Windows.And yes, that’s due to familiarity. Maybe even Stokholme Syndrome…
That’s true. And if they actually did more vetting of their app store I’d probably use it!
But right now it seems to be full of software that isn’t updated as frequently as the separate installers for some reason, missing almost all apps, or has open source apps uploaded by someone who isn’t the original developer, and charging money for it…
You’re so incredibly dumb. Smart people know that you should really write a script with vim and then run it. I only had to restart my computer once before saving!
Updates are done through the same app store that I used to install it.
What I do to install software on my Windows PC:
Open my web browser. Search for the software. Pick the right website (with most software this is easy, for some software it’s not immediately clear, be careful not to download from a dodgy site). Navigate to the downloads page. Pick 64-bit Windows (not Mac!). Press download. Open file explorer. Navigate to Downloads. Find the installer exe. Double click. Go through the installer. Press next/tick/untick options. Press finish. Go back to the file explorer, delete the installer exe. Go to my desktop, delete the shortcut it has added (I hate it how every installer seems to do this!)
Updates are either done when I open the app and it does a check, which is frustrating, when I open an app I want it to open, I don’t want to see a prompt to update, OR through a separate updater app that runs at startup, making my PC sluggish at boot.
There are shortcomings in Linux, and there are things Windows does pretty well. It’s funny that you picked the thing Linux is literally the best at hands down, and Windows is the worst at, hands down. It’d be like if you complained about MacOS not being visually consistent lol
You should have picked something that Linux is genuinely bad at, like HDR support or something.
E: pictures say a thousand words. Here’s the difference:
Again, truly, I’m not here to say Windows is unusable and Linux is perfect, but of all the examples to praise windows and shit on Linux for, you chose software installation? Are you actually insane?? lmao
I’m sorry, but the “fragmentation” of Linux distros and the number of ways to install a program on Linux are also issues.
On Linux (or at least Ubuntu), you have to manage sources to install some programs, and that is WAY too complex for an end user. Fine, you can always use the CLI or search online, but then you run into fragmentation issues. “Why is there no Ubuntu download? Do I click the RPM one?”
On Windows, yes, it’s more clicks on average, but it’s a very consistent experience across all programs. You either open up the Microsoft Store, or you Google the name of the program you want and hit “next” until it’s done. No managing sources and no deciding which file extension you need. The only issue would be deciding between 32 bit and 64 bit.
No, you search the store, pick the app, press install. The end user doesn’t care or know whether the package manager is installing a flatpak or an RPM.
It’s not like people installing Windows programs need to know whether the installer is an .exe or an .MSI file, they just know that pressing the installer they downloaded brings up an installer. They don’t need to know about the low-level packaging fundamentals.
It’s not just more clicks on average, it’s more confusion, more prone to installing non-genuine software, and still fragmented. Do I install 32 bit? 64? Arm32? Arm64?
As for there are too many ways to install a program, what nonsense is that? You’re not made to open the terminal, just as you are not made to open powershell and use Winget. You can literally use this exact same argument against windows, yet you aren’t.
Look at the pictures I linked to. One is far easier than the other, and Windows isn’t the easy one.
deleted by creator
Linux users when somebody doesn’t type out an essay to install a program
Uhm actually its very easy you just
And press enter and debug your missing dependencies for the next two weeks, I mean how hard is that?
More like:
Search in the app store, press install.
As opposed to the absolute nightmare of finding executables on random websites, downloading them, running an installer program, pressing next a bunch of times, then deleting the installer afterwards.
App management is something Linux does very well, and Windows very poorly.
On no other OS is it the norm to do it like you’re expected to do it on Windows.
I can chat about bad points in Linux all day, I’m not blind to the faults of any of these OSes, but a Windows user saying installing software on Linux is hard really does have me giggling
E: pictures say a thousand words. Here’s the difference:
Installing an app on Windows: https://imgur.com/a/QoLzZlk
Installing an app on Linux: https://imgur.com/a/prsi9ZW
Need I say more?
E2: people still saying installing apps in Windows is easier despite photographic evidence to the contrary cannot be helped. You’ve gone too deep. Next you’ll be saying climate change isn’t real and the earth is flat lmao. The evidence is right there in front of you!
I’m afraid Linux is more complex for most regular people.
Yes, a lot of stuff is managed by a package manager (though you have to decide between 2-3 options of the same app, as one is flatpak and one is something else you’ve never come across before) and when that works, it’s great. But it’s far from comprehensive.
I’d rather press ‘next’ or ‘ok’ a few times than have to learn an entirely new and non-intuituve language and interface just to add an app or driver that is among the 20% of stuff that still won’t just work out the box.
I really don’t know where you’re getting this impression from.
I search for software. It’s there, I see an install button. I press it. You can click a drop down to pick between, say, an RPM package or a flatpak, but it’s not something a normal user would do.
Installing windows programs, as I’ve already said, is a lot more than just pressing ok. It relies on knowing what site to pick, finding the download page, picking the right installer, finding the exe you downloaded, going through the install wizard, deleting the installer after.
It’s not easier. IMO app management is the biggest weakness of Windows. There’s a reason genuinely no other OS has that as the standard way to install programs.
I don’t understand the part about learning a new language either? What? I open the app store, I search, I press install. There’s no need for multiple languages? And the interface is a lot more intuitive than finding the right download on every single website, that all look different, and going through every installer, most of which look different.
Seriously, if you were talking about idk, HDR or gaming (outside of emulation where it’s a solid Linux win) or something, I’d be agreeing with you and saying Windows is easier, despite Valve getting Linux pretty close.
But installing programs? Nah, Windows is the one that’s a complicated clusterfuck. People are just used to it so they don’t really think about it.
E: lmao you people are downvoting yet you can’t refute it. Stop simping for a $2.8tn dollar company. I’ve already proven what I’ve said is true. Me criticising an OS isn’t a personal attack lol, stop fanboying.
I’m getting this impression as someone who just installed Linux mint, because people like yourself who say there won’t be problems and it will all just work. It didn’t. There were problems, and there still are.
Even on Linux I still have to search online for info and for what app to install to meet my needs. Which also relies on knowing what site to trust, and what info you find varies hugely from helpful to incomprehensible for a beginner. Especially when there’s a hundred unfamiliar options.
The whole finding downloading and installing something on windows is straightforward for most people. Search, go to site, select, install, follow instructions. Done. I’m not sure why you’re making it sound like some frought and impenetrable nightmare. There’s also the windows app store for (like the mint package manager) about 80% of stuff.
Honestly, I don’t find the package manager much different, since I still need to search for something (to identify the right software / tool etc). And hope it’s included in the package manager. Then I’m asked to approve some dependencys that I have no way, as a beginner, of evaluating of they’re safe or not. So just click ok, and just have to trust the package manager / software (Another click) is safe. No different to me that some downloaded executable on windows.
And as for the different versions, yes, I mean why are there two or three versions of Firefox when I search in the Mint package manager? What makes flatpak ine different from the other one? How can I evaluate ? As a new user, even the descriptions don’t help.
And when I say a new language, I’m talking about having to go into the terminal (?) And enter a bunch of unfamiliar commands that I have no idea if they’re the right or safe thing to do, In order to be able to get something to work. In my case a switch pro controller and an Xbox one controller (when the pro didn’t work). Both of which just work on windows. That’s just one example, and I don’t think it’s an especially unique or niche one for someone coming from windows. Got them to work on Yuzu, but wouldn’t work with a browser for some reason.
To be clear, I’m not dissing Linux (nor you!) I just don’t believe it’s easier that Windows, nor does it yet feel ready to help a new user do fairly ‘normal’ stuff they might want to. I also recently started using a Mac, and while that was laerning curve, it was still far more novice friendly than Mint. In my experience.
Anybody who tells you you won’t experience any issues on a piece of software as large, capable, and complex as a desktop OS is lying. Don’t tell me I’m a person who’d say that, because I’m not. You will face an issue from time to time on Linux. You will face an issue from time to time on Windows. You will face an issue from time to time on MacOS.
Applies just as much to Windows (or Mac) as it does to Linux. We aren’t born with intimate knowledge of every program ever made.
At least on Mac or Linux the app stores (that people actually use btw) have app categories and spotlights on apps to help you find good ones.
I’m sorry but no it isn’t. You’re just used to it. There’s a difference. It’s an awful and potentially dangerous way to get software. It’s worse and it’s needlessly cumbersome and complicated.
I keep repeating this, but there is a reason nobody else follows that model.
To me, it’s a fatal flaw in Windows that Microsoft needs to sort out. I’m struggling to even sum up in words how much of a broken system it is. There’s no defending it. Even Microsoft themselves acknowledge it’s a broken system.
E: pictures say a thousand words. Here’s the difference:
Installing an app on Windows: https://imgur.com/a/QoLzZlk
Installing an app on Linux: https://imgur.com/a/prsi9ZW
Come on. Don’t try to gaslight me into thinking that’s intuitive, straightforward, or convenient. Because it isn’t. You’re lying to me and to yourself.
Which has barely any apps, a malware problem, and is full of open source apps uploaded by people who aren’t the original developer, charging money for them. Even the most die hard windows fans think the Windows store is bad.
You don’t need to use the terminal. I could make this same complaint about the command prompt, powershell, or windows terminal (why are there 3, btw, Microsoft?! Why make this needlessly confusing??) Or about having to navigate the nightmare that is the Windows Registry when something doesn’t work.
Huh. I have the opposite experience. I plug a controlled into my Linux PC, it just works. Not the same on windows. Ironically, Microsoft’s own controllers work better on Linux than they do on Windows. And don’t get me started on using PlayStation controllers on Windows.
Just to set the record straight: I’m not trying to gaslight you. I’m sharing my newbie Linux journey, which hasn’t been as smooth as I hoped.
Linux’s centralised app management is neat, but for a Windows convert, figuring out which Linux apps to use isn’t straightforward. Deciding between numerous unfamiliar software options isn’t much different from the Windows method you described – it’s just swapping out the final step of installer downloads for package manager searches. What I’m saying is that, yes, you’re technicallycorrect. But in terms of pratical experience, the difference isn’t that significant.
The package manager is a mixed bag. Yes, it’s probably safer, but as a beginner, I’m still placing my trust in it blindly, just like I would with any Windows software site. And navigating it? It’s like a sweet shop, but one where I can’t tell one sweet from another. Maybe I don’t need to? Maybe there’s actually some huge benefit or negative of one version over the other? I don’t know, I’ll have to research it… again.
The descriptions don’t tell me either. For instance, my Linux Mint shows two versions of VLC (one with the familiar icon), and a bunch of other VLC stuff, which I’m sure is super helpful for people who need whatever they are, but it leaves me baffled.
Then there’s the terminal – Linux’s “user-friendly” feature (/s). To fix something as simple as a controller, I’m thrust into a world of cryptic commands, that, unless I want to spend weeks learning, I have to take on faith aren’t the linux equivalent of deleting system32… It’s a steep climb compared to the familiar process of downloading and installing drivers on Windows.
So, while I recognise each OS has its strengths and weaknesses, for someone fresh to Linux, it can feel like you need a Computer Science degree for what’s a walk in the park on Windows.And yes, that’s due to familiarity. Maybe even Stokholme Syndrome…
I’m sorry I hurt your feelings. I didn’t mean to do that.
Tbf Microsoft wants you to rely on their store to install things. People just don’t trust it, for obvious reasons.
That’s true. And if they actually did more vetting of their app store I’d probably use it!
But right now it seems to be full of software that isn’t updated as frequently as the separate installers for some reason, missing almost all apps, or has open source apps uploaded by someone who isn’t the original developer, and charging money for it…
Even if they vetted their apps properly, I’d still not want to use it tbh. Microsoft is untrustworthy, even from a “massive corporation” perspective.
You’re so incredibly dumb. Smart people know that you should really write a script with vim and then run it. I only had to restart my computer once before saving!
I once got stuck in vim. I had to kill it. Then I uninstalled it.
I wish Nano was the default on everything. The fact that Git on Windows uses Vim is so incredibly annoying.
What I do to install software on my Linux PC:
Open the app store. Search. Click install. Done.
Updates are done through the same app store that I used to install it.
What I do to install software on my Windows PC:
Open my web browser. Search for the software. Pick the right website (with most software this is easy, for some software it’s not immediately clear, be careful not to download from a dodgy site). Navigate to the downloads page. Pick 64-bit Windows (not Mac!). Press download. Open file explorer. Navigate to Downloads. Find the installer exe. Double click. Go through the installer. Press next/tick/untick options. Press finish. Go back to the file explorer, delete the installer exe. Go to my desktop, delete the shortcut it has added (I hate it how every installer seems to do this!)
Updates are either done when I open the app and it does a check, which is frustrating, when I open an app I want it to open, I don’t want to see a prompt to update, OR through a separate updater app that runs at startup, making my PC sluggish at boot.
There are shortcomings in Linux, and there are things Windows does pretty well. It’s funny that you picked the thing Linux is literally the best at hands down, and Windows is the worst at, hands down. It’d be like if you complained about MacOS not being visually consistent lol
You should have picked something that Linux is genuinely bad at, like HDR support or something.
E: pictures say a thousand words. Here’s the difference:
Installing an app on Windows: https://imgur.com/a/QoLzZlk
Installing an app on Linux: https://imgur.com/a/prsi9ZW
Again, truly, I’m not here to say Windows is unusable and Linux is perfect, but of all the examples to praise windows and shit on Linux for, you chose software installation? Are you actually insane?? lmao
deleted by creator
I’m sorry, but the “fragmentation” of Linux distros and the number of ways to install a program on Linux are also issues.
On Linux (or at least Ubuntu), you have to manage sources to install some programs, and that is WAY too complex for an end user. Fine, you can always use the CLI or search online, but then you run into fragmentation issues. “Why is there no Ubuntu download? Do I click the RPM one?”
On Windows, yes, it’s more clicks on average, but it’s a very consistent experience across all programs. You either open up the Microsoft Store, or you Google the name of the program you want and hit “next” until it’s done. No managing sources and no deciding which file extension you need. The only issue would be deciding between 32 bit and 64 bit.
No, you search the store, pick the app, press install. The end user doesn’t care or know whether the package manager is installing a flatpak or an RPM.
It’s not like people installing Windows programs need to know whether the installer is an .exe or an .MSI file, they just know that pressing the installer they downloaded brings up an installer. They don’t need to know about the low-level packaging fundamentals.
It’s not just more clicks on average, it’s more confusion, more prone to installing non-genuine software, and still fragmented. Do I install 32 bit? 64? Arm32? Arm64?
As for there are too many ways to install a program, what nonsense is that? You’re not made to open the terminal, just as you are not made to open powershell and use Winget. You can literally use this exact same argument against windows, yet you aren’t.
Look at the pictures I linked to. One is far easier than the other, and Windows isn’t the easy one.