As tensions with China rise, scientists at America’s leading universities complain of stalled research after crackdown at airports
Stopped at the border, interrogated on national security grounds, laptops and mobile phones checked, held for several hours, plans for future research shattered. ⠀
Earlier this month the Chinese embassy in Washington said more than 70 students “with legal and valid materials” had been deported from the US since July 2021, with more than 10 cases since November 2023. The embassy said it had complained to the US authorities about each case. ⠀
“The impact is huge,” says Qin Yan, a professor of pathology at Yale School of Medicine in Connecticut, who says that he is aware of more than a dozen Chinese students from Yale and other universities who have been rejected by the US in recent months, despite holding valid visas. Experiments have stalled, and there is a “chilling effect” for the next generation of Chinese scientists. ⠀
The refusals appear to be linked to a 2020 US rule that barred Chinese postgraduate students with links to China’s “military-civil fusion strategy”, which aims to leverage civilian infrastructure to support military development. The Australian Strategic Policy Institute thinktank estimates that 95 civilian universities in China have links to the defence sector.
Nearly 2,000 visas applications were rejected on that basis in 2021. But now people who pass the security checks necessary to be granted a visa by the State Department are being turned away at the border by CBP, a different branch of government.
“It is very hard for a CBP officer to really evaluate the risk of espionage,” said Dan Berger, an immigration lawyer in Massachusetts, who represents a graduate student at Yale who, midway through her PhD, was sent back from Washington’s Dulles airport in December, and banned from re-entering the US for five years. ⠀
Academics say that scrutiny has widened to different fields – particularly medical sciences – with the reasons for the refusals not made clear.
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Lmao liberals getting mad at (in this case non-existent) “violations” of laws that only exist to protect the capitalist class is always funny
Intellectual property shouldn’t exist in the first place; it kills millions of people every year from patented drugs, etc. and it did so in Africa during covid.
Those drugs wouldn’t be developed in the first place, if there were no IP. The system is not ideal, but I would rather address its issues than destroy everything completely. When hous is on fire, the right thing is put out the fire, not to destroy the town.
Cuba literally developed vaccines without IP nonsense, your argument kinda rings hollow
It is not impossible, but are you seriously want to compare pharmaceutical advancements of Cuba and US? You can even compare USSR and USA at the time. USSR medicine was significantly behind.
Cuba has 3% of the population of the US. I think it is fair to say they have disproportionately more medical advancement than expected for their population and wealth level.
I am not sure “advancement per person” is right metric - the more advances the much harder to make those. This is why I was suggesting to compare it to USSR - fair comparison.
Cuba is incredibly farther ahead than the US in the medical field
Source? I would like to see how cuban pharmaceuticals are more advanced than that in US. Until you show concrete proof, I will say this is made up statement.
Your comment is pretty ridiculous when you consider that multiple times in history, the scientists who invented vaccines or treatments that saved millions of people put those inventions into the public domain.
The idea that without capitalism, there is no innovation, is ridiculous. Capitalism is a fairly new idea in history, you’ve just fallen for the propaganda.
Sure, some medicine would be developed, not claiming that there would be none. But there would be less. Profit motivation is one hell of a drug (pun not intended). Compare USSR and USA at the time. It is actually incomparable in terms of advancement of drugs and medical devices and even dentistry. What kills is absence of universal insurance, not presence of IP.
And yet compare life expectancies and you find a very different story. Why is that?
When hous is on fire, the right thing is put out the fire
The fire is the capitalist laws like IP; the “hous” is a country’s development. So yes, the fire should be put out.
and because they’re on an instance without downvotes they’re only going to see the 7 upvotes they did get. It’s 2024 why are people still buying into capitalist realism?? All the guys pushing for it have all moved on to pushing pedo-nazi shit you should be better than this.
If you think all capitalists are nazis then your ideology has blinded you.
People pushing for capitalist realism absolutely are, and usually the nazism comes secondary to the pedophilia with those types.
Also, relevant meme:
Never said communism is bad, friend, just that it’s not a good idea to be consumed by any ideological framework - that’s how you become a zealot or worse, an enabler to someone who corrupts the cause.
People hate saving others, you really have to give them so many incentives to care. /S
Neo-liberals are capitalists. They just virtue signal about leftist points sometimes.
While I agree that intellectual property has been abused over and over, especially in the last two decades, we need to remember the reason why patents became a thing, and that reason was to promote open research and cooperation.
Without patents the only tool businesses had to protect and exploit their inventions and discoveries was secrecy, which creates a terrible environment for research, full of espionage and subterfuge and without a library of human inventions and research ready for anyone to take and build upon.
It’s somewhat of a necessary evil, a carrot in order to incentivize businesses and individuals to share their research and their inventions, instead of keeping them to themselves in fear of someone else stealing them. It does have issues though, especially regarding the lack of a “fair” use of the monopoly the patent grants for it’s duration.
And, again, I’m talking about patents. Copyright is a whole other can of worms, way worse in some ways.
Here is an alternative Piped link(s):
Intellectual property shouldn’t exist
Piped is a privacy-respecting open-source alternative frontend to YouTube.
I’m open-source; check me out at GitHub.
Yeah, it’s terrible how capitalists and their megacorps might not profit as much if that’s happening…
(which it isn’t these days btw; countries like the US and China violated bullshit british IP laws when industrializing, and they don’t really need to do that once they are industrialized)
You are making it sound like China and its large corporations weren’t also very interested in profits and market domination.
That’s included in the “industrializing” part, no?
Under capitalism, industrialization and therefore “market domination” realistically means ignoring the laws meant to keep competition down.
Stealing IP by… Publishing their own work on publicly accessible journals and conferences? The absolute horror. You don’t steal public IP, you gain (or lose) the rights to use it.
I would have no problem if everything was open sourced. However, Chinese capitalists steal this data, make it proprietary and profit off of it themselves. This is the “horror”.
It’s public research. How exactly do you propose to make public research proprietary? The university holds the rights.
shut up racist
China files more patents than the next nine countries combined: https://www.wipo.int/en/ipfactsandfigures/patents
China is first country to hold over 4 million domestic patents
The number of China’s domestic valid patents does not include those held in Hong Kong, Macao and Taiwan.
racist shithole country
The US shooting itself in the foot by making the neocolonialist brain drain strategy fall apart because they’re too racist and paranoid is somewhat funny. Shitty for these people though.
Yeah, the silver lining here is that US is becoming toxic to foreign students and people are waking up to the fact that moving to US sucks.
You’re going to have to say which one you’re talking about.
I think the context is pretty obvious here.
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Sure you were
Wasnt hard: https://feddit.de/post/11209008
Bitch dont make me find it
source being a 404, on some random forum, nice
Buddy, anybody who’s been to America knows what a shithole it really is.
When where you in America? And why?
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sure it does little buddy
Which one is known for being a melting pot of immigrants with a diverse population of every ethnicity on the planet?
The one where the oligarchs exploit all people equally.
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That’s a hell of a way to describe a band of racist white countries that have been parasitizing upon the rest of the world banning Chinese products. You clowns are an absolute hoot. Oh and let’s just see what people who face racism in the west have to say on the subject.
The reality is both exist in the United States. There is at least distinct cultures that are slowly trying to divide themselves apart with in the US today.
Just comical amounts of racism. I guess it’s only fitting that the US chase the braindrain it relies on to drive any productive sectors it hasn’t outsourced back to their home countries as it spirals into imperial decline.
Yeah I mean, pay your graduate students about twice as much and make them only work 40 hours a week. Then you won’t have to import labor from outside the county.
Turns out everything the US says about its rivals is projection, who could’ve guessed?
X Edward Guo, a professor of biomedical engineering at Columbia University, said that part of the problem is that, unlike in the US, military research does sometimes take place on university campuses. “It’s not black and white … there are medical universities that also do military. But 99% of those professors are doing biomedical research and have nothing to do with the military.”.
Us University’s don’t do military research
Yes they do ???
Military research requires clearance which foreign nationals can’t get anyway.
That was the part that confused me too.
Probably even happens more often in US universities than Chinese ones.
Same shit different era. Always gotta be persecuting somebody.
Also when Silicon Valley copies and steals they get praised as revolutionary innovators.
This will backfire independently of the political or security justifications. Many Chinese scientists were put under surveillance, stripped off their academic positions and faced deportation during Red Scare, and this directly contributed to China’s nuclear and space program.
Earlier this month the Chinese embassy in Washington said more than 70 students “with legal and valid materials” had been deported from the US since July 2021, with more than 10 cases since November 2023.
So like 20 out of about 20k/year. Big story.
that 20k is all immigrant visas not just student ones
also it’s 70 postgraduate students in specific engineering/science industries. The huge majority of students are doing bachelor’s and a lot of them in shit like econ or math
I like how the summary conveniently avoid mentioning the fact that in the year 2023 30000 visa were given to chinese students. Its quite sad how most people dont bother reading the article. As per the article: “The number of people affected is a tiny fraction of the total number of Chinese students in the US. The State Department issued nearly 300,000 visas to Chinese students in the year to September 2023. But the personal accounts speak to a broader concern that people-to-people exchanges between the world’s two biggest economies and scientific leaders are straining.”
do you think you sound smart or something? yeah they’re not deporting every single Chinese student, how many need to be deported for you to care about it? it’s a problem, it’s racism, and it describes a general anti-Chinese sentiment within the US. Asian hate crimes have increased, professors have been falsely accused and fired because of “espionage” with no proof, and so on.
how many Swedes do you think are being falsely deported?
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I never said racism wasn’t an issue, but I found the tread quite misleading towards the situation, especially since the reverse from us to china is also true, the underlying problem here is more complex and not unidimensional.
If you need more context: As mentioned in the article, and a view a shared, the underlying problem that drives this vicious cycle is underlying espionage risk and general distrust between two frictional powers on a path of collision, against the interest of their own people. I don’t think we can blame this situation solely on the US as China behaviour is not exemplar itself. Unfortunately we don’t live in a perfect world, where governments put their own interest above all else.
I didn’t expect to have to say this, as i think its not really the topic we are discussing here but still. I dont know about the atmosphere in america and the anti asian sentiment because of covid, but i find something like that quite despicable, and will not bring us anywhere.
How many of those are graduate students?
Pathetic
Not surprising when you look at all the anti-China stuff coming out of mainstream liberal orgs and communities.
I foremost hope that the United States can regain a shred of its diginity and stop treating every foreigner like a criminal, stop funding a genocide, stop killing its own population with guns, have a decent social services program, etc. This is obviously a fantasy, so I secondarily hope these researchers can go back to China and do good work, where they won’t be treated as second-tier human beings.
The Australian Strategic Policy Institute thinktank estimates that 95 civilian universities in China have links to the defence sector.
Oh, the think tank with the guy who gets satellite images of schools and says that it’s definitely a Uighur concentration camp, the one funded by the military.
snk typical Chinese tyranic- … what do you mean it’s America doing it??
Biden doing the Trump thing. Recently came up with genius tarifs for Aluminium as well.
