Sanctions were applied after the social media platform delayed compliance with a federal search warrant that required Twitter to hand over Donald Trump’s Twitter data without telling the former president about the warrant for 180 days.
The purpose of a fine is to get compliance, not to punish. The fine was $50,000, doubling every day. So $350,00 dollars means Musk caved after 3 days. Pretty effective tactic by the court.
Powers of two don’t fuck around.
Doing a data science degree right now. No. No they do not.
This pointless comment brought to you by poorly optimized flashbacks.
The fine would’ve hit $40 billion within a few weeks.
I think that would make his investment underwater
$350K might make it underwater?
OceanGate only charged $250k. He could’ve been underwater with $100k to spare.
$40 billion
Uhh, how does a 50k fine that doubles each day come out to 350k?
Day 1: 50,000. Day 2: 100,000. Day 3: 200,000. Day 4: 400,000…
We skipped right over 350…
I believe it is cumulative.
50k first day
PLUS 100k next day (running total 150k)
PLUS 200k next day (running total 350k)
The violation is committed every 24h. You do not get a bonus/discount for waiting out. It is added to your already amassed fine. The way you count would mean, that on day 5, they would get a ~50% discount in the fine (paying only 800K instead of the amassed 1.55M)
Day 1: 50K -> 50K = 50K locked in
Day 2: 100K -> 100K + 1st day 50K = 150K locked in
Day 3: 200K -> 200K + 2nd day 100K + 1st day 50K = 350K locked in
Day 4: 400K -> 400K + 3rd day 200K + 2nd day 100K + 1st day 50K = 750K locked in
Day 5: 800K -> 800K + 4th day 400K + 3rd day 200K + 2nd day 100K + 1st day 50K = 1.550.000K locked in
…
Day 6: 1.6M = 3.15M
Day 7: 3.2M = 6.35M
Day 8: 6.4M = 12.75M
Day 9: 12.8M = 25.55M
Day 10: 25.6M = 51.15M
Day 11: 51.2M = 102.35M
Day 12: 102.4M = 204.75M
Day 13: 204.8M = 409.55M
Day 14: 409.6M = 819.15M
Day 15: 819.2M = 1.638B
How is that not just standardized and know at the time of the ruling ?
Unlike the rest of the justice system.
That’s like fining you or I a penny. It’s so ridiculously inconsequential to Musk.
If he’d held out one more day it would have been 700k. 2 more days, 1.4M. 3 more, 2.8M.
i.e. Musk caved before it became consequential.
1.4B if he’d waited 2 weeks more. 23.4T (that’s Trillion) if he wanted to shield Trump for a month. I’d say it was a heavy fine that worked as intended.
Someone check my math.
I checked your math. It’s pretty terrible, my friend.
Ok. And…
Correct it or stfu.
Corrected math, between day 1 and day 30 (if someone knows how to make a table easily in a lemmy comment please enlighten me ):
1 $50,00 2 $150,00 3 $350,00 4 $750,00 5 $1.550,00 6 $3.150,00 7 $6.350,00 8 $12.750,00 9 $25.550,00 10 $51.150,00 11 $102.350,00 12 $102.350,00 13 $204.750,00 14 $409.550,00 15 $819.150,00 16 $1.638.350,00 17 $3.276.750,00 18 $6.553.550,00 19 $13.107.150,00 20 $26.214.350,00 21 $52.428.750,00 22 $104.857.550,00 23 $209.715.150,00 24 $419.430.350,00 25 $838.860.750,00 26 $1.677.721.550,00 27 $3.355.443.150,00 28 $6.710.886.350,00 29 $13.421.772.750,00 30 $26.843.545.550,00
You were giving him a discount! (If this math is correct, but it should be)
1 $50,00 2 $150,00 3 $350,00 4 $750,00 5 $1.550,00 6 $3.150,00 7 $6.350,00 8 $12.750,00 9 $25.550,00 10 $51.150,00 11 $102.350,00 12 $102.350,00 13 $204.750,00 14 $409.550,00 15 $819.150,00 16 $1.638.350,00 17 $3.276.750,00 18 $6.553.550,00 19 $13.107.150,00 20 $26.214.350,00 21 $52.428.750,00 22 $104.857.550,00 23 $209.715.150,00 24 $419.430.350,00 25 $838.860.750,00 26 $1.677.721.550,00 27 $3.355.443.150,00 28 $6.710.886.350,00 29 $13.421.772.750,00 30 $26.843.545.550,00
Day Amount 1 $50,000 2 $150,000 3 $350,000 4 $750,000 5 $1.550,000 6 $3.150,000 7 $6.350,000 8 $12.750,000 9 $25.550,000 10 $51.150,000 11 $102.350,000 12 $102.350,000 13 $204.750,000 14 $409.550,000 15 $819.150,000 16 $1.638.350,000 17 $3.276.750,000 18 $6.553.550,000 19 $13.107.150,000 20 $26.214.350,000 21 $52.428.750,000 22 $104.857.550,000 23 $209.715.150,000 24 $419.430.350,000 25 $838.860.750,000 26 $1.677.721.550,000 27 $3.355.443.150,000 28 $6.710.886.350,000 29 $13.421.772.750,000 30 $26.843.545.550,000 Lemmy supports markdown, so you can use markdown tables.
P.S. I didn’t check your numbers, but I was curious about the markdown :)
Thank you!
$23.4T / ($350k / day) = 66857142.85 days
That’s about 183,170 years, not a month.
I’m assuming you were suggesting it was $350k / day? Maybe you were meaning exponential and I misread?
edit: ah, $50k doubling. Missed that in the article.
Ahh so this is that compounding interest they taught me about in school
Until fines become wealth based, it will always be a poor people tax.
If cash flow is the issue, then start taking stocks.
Or make them recurring fines that grow exponentially each time they are issued until the situation is fixed.
Edit: nvm it sounds like this is exactly what they are doing.
Not just a “poor person tax” but it means that the law just doesn’t apply in any meaningful way to the wealthy
Inconsequential for Musk sure, but not Twitter. Twitter is a company that didn’t make money, lost half of its ad revenue, can’t afford to pay its rent, can’t afford to pay its cloud providers, and was saddled with huge debts that have $1b in interest annually. The clock is ticking for Twitter.
I think the issue is it can become failure of compliance and obstruction of justice at some point or can be tried as that. Elon could really get himself fucked if am investigation found members of the company discussion rejection to oblige.
This the top comment on literally every news article about a fine, lol.
Lol true.
Play stupid games, win stupid prizes.
350k is a slap. Criminal charges should be made agaist leaders who ordered the delays.
Sure would be nice if some rich criminals went to jail instead of a life without repercussions of any kind
It was doubling every day. They were scared of day 15 where it would’ve been 780mil for the day and over 1.562billion total.
Every day doubling is a really good consequence, the fact that it only took twitter 3 days to comply once the penalty started actually hitting should confirm that
It took 6 months, and they got fined because they broke the law. If the company knewkon day one it would face criminal charges for non compliance after a period for appeal we would have seen results months ago.
Can we send Twitter to prison?
Corporations are people my friend
Only for free speech purposes but not for criminal or tax.
that is what they say
I’ll believe that when a corporation gets executed.
I’m all for corporate death penalty.
Seems fair. If corporations are legally people, they ought to be able to be incarcerated like people or executed like people.
I fully agree with this, I’m just not sure what form this would take.
For execution, a dissolution of all properties, patents, inventory, and all assets seized and sold, followed by barring at least the C-suite from working in the same field ever again?
In my mind, incarceration would be a freeze on all their assets and business operations for a fixed period of time. Execution would mean full liquidation as though they were bankrupt, all their IPs become public domain, like you mention. Perhaps with such equality, owners of corporations would no longer wish them to be considered people.
I imagine a C-suite that caused either of these outcomes wouldn’t be popular with the investment class since it would cost them meaningful amounts of money. A ban might not even be nessicary.
Thats a good start.
“Who is this Twitter you speak of? My name is X. I don’t know any Twitter.“ - Musk with a fake moustache and glasses.
Yeah, it will go back to Twitter again eventually
I think more likely it will just go away eventually like MySpace.
Sold to Fox Entertainment and primarily abandoned?
Sounds about right… I really did think MySpace was actually completely.gone these days though… Last time I tried to visit (before today) I actually got a 404 error.
MySpace is now a music artist site, it still exists. It will probably outlast Xitter if elon keeps this up.
Hell, I’m surprised… Last time I tried to visit it I got a 404 error.
Ha, corporations are legally people but can’t be punished as people. I can’t see any way that could be abused.
Probably not, but maybe we could shut them off from the internet.
Bro, Elon gutted Twitter. I wouldn’t be surprised if they didn’t have the right people to get this information. I wonder if it sat in a mailbox for a day before they even had someone look at it.
Twitter isn’t a well run company anymore. This could be pure incompetence.
Too bad for them.
Ugh please leave the pointless predictable pithy platitudes at Reddit
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Elon is bleeding millions a day at this point - he won’t even know that this 350k ever existed or what it was for.
100% this. This fine should be increased hundred fold at the very least. In the real world someone would be held in contempt of court and jailed. Laws for the common man and piddly fines for the wealthy parasites of the world.
This is the best summary I could come up with:
At first, Twitter resisted producing Trump’s data and argued that the government’s nondisclosure order violated the First Amendment and the Stored Communications Act.
However, US circuit judge Florence Pan wrote that the court was largely unpersuaded by Twitter’s arguments, mostly because the government’s interest in Trump’s data as part of its ongoing January 6 investigation was “unquestionably compelling.”
The government then took the extra step to apply for a nondisclosure order, which was granted because “the district court found that there were ‘reasonable grounds to believe’ that disclosing the warrant to former President Trump ‘would seriously jeopardize the ongoing investigation’ by giving him ‘an opportunity to destroy evidence, change patterns of behavior, [or] notify confederates.’”
The court checked with Twitter and confirmed that it was capable of meeting a rapid deadline and turning over the data by 5:00 pm that evening.
The court rejected Twitter’s “good faith” arguments, mainly because the company blew past the original deadline and repeatedly failed to raise concerns at earlier opportunities.
While Twitter appealed the decision, the company “paid the $350,000 sanction into an escrow account maintained by the district court clerk’s office.”
I’m a bot and I’m open source!
Good bot.
Hmmmm, yes, we got rid of Nixon by complying with the first amendment act. At this point Elon is just a closeted far righter whos just scared to make it public.
Ummm… Has he not been making it public? He hasn’t seemed too subtle to me
Meanwhile, Twitter was late in its attempts to oppose the sanctions formula. The court opinion said that Twitter’s counsel “belatedly” pointed out that “roughly one month of noncompliance” would have “required Twitter to pay a sanction greater than ‘the entire world’s gross domestic product.’”
PalpatineDewIt.jpg
“But your honor, if we don’t comply with your order it’ll cost insane amounts of money!”
“Damn it’s almost like I want you to comply”
Day 7: 6,350,000
Day 14: 819,150,000
Day 21: 104,857,550,000
Day 28: 13,421,772,750,000
Day 30: 53,687,091,150,000
A fun fine from the judge.
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The fine was $50K per day, and by the time they complied it had gotten to $350K. They then went to court to fight the fine, and have not definitively lost.
Just for clarification purposes, its 50k per day, doubling every day of noncompliance. So day 1 is 50k, day 2 is an additional 100k, and day 3 is an additional 200k. 3 days = 350k. I agree that it’s not enough, but if they dug their heels in, it would grow really high, really fast, so it was a pretty effective fine.
In particular, by day 5 it’s over a million dollars per day, and by day 15 it’s over a billion dollars per day.
If they sat on it for a month, it’d be a ~50 trillion fine that day.
There’s a reason it only took them 3 days to comply.
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It wasn’t meant to punish. It was meant to compel, and it worked.
The government immediately tried to serve Twitter with the search warrant—which required Trump’s data to be shared within 10 days—but the website where Twitter gathers legal requests was “inoperative.”
Did they auto-reply to the request with a poop emoji?
I find Twitter contemptible, where’s my money?
Elon is a Trump level business leader 🙄
All that money he saved by laying off staff now wasted on fines.
But with Musk’s wealth compared to the average white collar workers wealth, isn’t that like 35 bucks?
The average net worth in the US is $121k. Elon Musk’s net worth is $231B, or about 1.9M times the average. A $350K fine for Musk would equate to about 18 cents for the average American.
More like three fiddy
I feel like it should be noted that Twitter didn’t have any objections at all to handing over all of Trump’s data. Thier only issue was with not telling him about it.
Thier only issue was with not telling him about it.
That was a legal tactic. It doesn’t mean that was their actual concern. It means it was the best counterargument they could come up with.
If you read the article that was one of several things they threw out there to excuse their consistently delaying/not complying. The courts told them repeatedly that their opinions on the matter were wrong and they kept delaying over and over again.
I mean come on:
“Twitter contends that it ‘substantially complied with the [w]arrant’ because ‘there was nothing [it] could have done to comply faster’ after the court issued the February 7 order,” the court document said.
The court rejected Twitter’s “good faith” arguments, mainly because the company blew past the original deadline and repeatedly failed to raise concerns at earlier opportunities.Twitter continued challenging the nondisclosure order and the sanctions, but the court rejected most of its arguments and ultimately affirmed the contempt sanctions, issuing its opinion on July 18.
This nonsense went on for months.
To avoid a fine, all they had to do was tell the court they needed more time before the deadline*
*Because Space Karen fired all the people who knew how to look this up
Space Karen lmfao
That’s such an ancient phone on the thumbnail that it couldn’t even run Twitter.
Galaxy S3, right? That was my first smartphone! It looked pretty good in white (at the time).
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The real question is, what were they doing with the data during that time? Did some it disappear?
It was 3 days. They were probably waiting for someone to get around to collating it. You act like that should be easy.
The warrant was first served in January. They could have gotten it done in time but dragged their feet until the last second.
A company that specializes in sorting data should have an easy time with a request like this.
Yeah that tells me you don’t know shit about what you’re talking about. “A company that specializes in sorting data” is the most nonsense “I want to look like I know what I’m talking about” bullshit ever lol
Handing over data from one account with 6+ months warning is usually pretty easy actually.
The fact that it took a fine doubling every day to get them to comply is the more interesting fact.
It isn’t 3 days, as you imply. It’s multiple quarters.
The boot lickers are out in full force today.
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Sick burn bro.
It takes less than 30 minutes to write that sql query, no shot someone needs to spend 3 days “collating”.
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People on Twitter are saying they noticed his likes are gone. People have screenshots of everything he did on that site so wonder if Elon is gonna get in a fuckton of trouble.
Billionaires never seem to get in trouble, so I won’t hold my breath.
There’s a bunch of information that’s essentially public, which can be pieced back together. My concerned would be the potentially damning private messages and drafts that cannot be recovered.
Justice system finally getting around to expressing what we’re all feeling for TwitX.
I prefer Xitter, pronounced like “ZITTER”.
“Shitter”
…per day, or is this another “shucks Mr. Billionaire, I guess I gotta fine you something” punishment?
It was $50K per day. Then they complied, but still owed $350K. Then Twitter appealed the fine, and have now spent more money fighting the fine, than just paying it, and still have to pay it because they lost on appeal.
Lawyers got paid, so that’s cool for them I suppose.
No, it was $50k doubling every day. So day 2 it was $100k and day 3 it was $200k bringing it up to $350k. In a month, it would have been trillions.
The judge laid out a formula for “sanctions that would accrue at a geometric rate: $50,000 per day, to double every day that Twitter did not comply.” At that time, Twitter did not object to the sanctions formula
