oh are we gonna co-exist with the Nazis?
it also seems like a lot of leftists will say they are anti-authoritarian but then say Nazi lives don’t matter. It can’t be both.
“Anti-authoritarian” but also conveniently never criticize authoritarianism done by liberals
“Anti-authoritarian leftists” are just anarchists, right? Literally every anarchist I’ve ever known is constantly shitting on liberals, very often specifically about authoritarian behavior/policy
They should be, but a some of these people (sometimes still call themselves “anarchists”) see the West/us/NATO as the “lesser evil” which (assuming they are westerners) makes them no different from a liberal.
Anarchists are ‘authoritarian’ if they’re willing to use force to achieve their political goals.
I think it’s well established at this point that anarchists and ‘auth leftists’ have a different definition of authoritarian (and ‘state’ for that matter)
It seems similar to that old debate about ‘reverse racism’ vs racial prejudice- the sociological definition of racism includes oppression, but the dictionary definition didn’t/doesn’t, so people were largely arguing over semantics
Anarchism obviously is a very large umbrella, and part of the whole having everything decentralized and not have a central authority dictating everything means anarchists tend to expect people to have different ideas of what anarchy means, and for those to more or less co exist. Same way as there wouldn’t be a universal authority, there wouldn’t be a universal moral code. So while all would be definitionally anti-authority, that doesn’t necessarily mean anti-violence. Indeed, I think we can all agree on some violence that is justifiable, for example in self defense.
Part of the beauty of free association is that it acts as a sort of decentralized justice system. If there’s a person doing truly awful things, such as a Nazi, you may face no real consequences for your actions. But another action, even if less harmful in magnitude but for less justifiable reasons, could see stronger repurcussions by virtue of people no longer associating with that person.
(And of course, this kind of violence would largely only be considered justified in situations where both transformative and restorative justice have failed to resolve the issue)
Anti-authoritarian “leftists” are liberals that recognise that liberalism is bad but have not fully committed to the idea of replacing it. They wear the aesthetics of leftism because it makes them feel like they’re not bad human beings but because they have not fully committed to replacing it their instincts are still to support and reinforce the status quo.
They are liberals that feel guilty. It is necessary to challenge them for not fully committing to moving on from liberalism. They must not be allowed to feel absolved of guilt just by wearing leftism aesthetically, they must be pushed into remaining guilty in order to convert further and fully commit to the left.
Only by being challenged and made to see that they are still liberals will they make the effort to fully move on. They re-label themselves to remove that guilt and must not be allowed or else that will be the furthest they progress leftwards.
The trick about the word authoritarian is that while most people have a strong negative reaction to it, different groups have wildly divergent understandings of what the word means. This leads to confusion and hard feelings. Some people define “authoritarian” based on structural hierarchy, rather than exertion of control. Ask 10 people of different ideological persuasions to define the word and you will get 10 wildly different answers. And also many people define the word on a purely vibes basis, which is quite frustrating Personally I don’t use the work much because I don’t find it that useful.
And also many people define the word on a purely vibes basis, which is quite frustrating
This. I could see someone equating “authoritarian” to fascist, which then leads to OP’s post becoming this absurd nonsense:
I know too many anti-[fascist] leftists
oh are we gonna co-exist with the Nazis?
it also seems like a lot of leftists will say they are anti-[fascist] but then say Nazi lives don’t matter. It can’t be both.
“Anti authoritarian leftists”
Western chauvinists with
Sorry pal, defending yourself from murder is authoritarian totalitarian political violence
All of our problems will be solved with another peaceful protest.
The video of the ICE raids in Chicago yesterday (or today I can’t remember honestly) should immediately disabuse you of the notion that this strategy will ever bear meaningful fruit.
which video? drop a link if it’s still in your history
I honestly don’t remember where I saw it but there was some white woman yelling in the background “he’s a citizen! he’s a citizen!” while this poor bastard was getting gang tackled by around 8 different ICE thugs. Everyone else was hanging around and filming or running out of the way.
I don’t understand the contradiction.
Killing nazis is authoritarian.
Is it? Didn’t anarchists fight against the actual Nazis when they fought Nazi backed Franco during the Spanish Civil War?
Yeah, and they wielded the unmatched authority of bullets to do so
In the matter of fascists I defer to the authority of the bullet
I’d still consider that wielding authority.
The word nazi is overused. If I switch that word with “oppressive authoritarians in power” does that cover the same situation?
The word nazi is overused.
Piss off Charlie
It’s used to describe a wide selection of people. Someone who is a bigot, beats their family and is a generally a bad person might not be a literal nazi.
But in USA politics it often means gop or trumpers. A very wide group .
Others may define it as any who want to restrict rights.
It’s really hard to tell at times
But in USA politics it often means gop or trumpers
“Guys you can’t call the people who are literally deporting brown people to concentration camps and outlawing trans people Nazis, that’s not fair”
Someone who is a bigot, beats their family and is a generally a bad person might not be a literal nazi.
Right-wing chuds: “We will kill, torture, and kidnap any and all persons of a marginalized identity. Whether queer, black, Asian, disabled, homeless, Arab, Muslim, or women. We will also literally perform the actual Sieg Heil in public, use every form of white supremacist dogwhistles available, and cheer at the mass murder and genocide of geopolitical adversaries overseas.”
You: “Hmmm idk guys, they definitely seem bad but they aren’t carrying a copy of Mein Kampf on their person at all times 24/7 and quoting Hitler all day, or wearing a Nazi outfit in broad daylight. Maybe we shouldn’t call them Nazis because it’s really hard to tell.”
It’s not that hard to tell.
yes
nazi is overused
lol k.
Yes, you are using your authority to remove theirs
The word nazi is overused.
i agree, we have too many living nazis and not enough stormin’ ex-mormons.
You see this a lot with the Russian SMO. Too many “leftists” are very comfortable with leaving their analysis at the door of “neither Washington nor Moscow” and leaving their positions eerily absent of any part of fascist Ukraine and instead pontificate about Putin’s desire for a new Russian empire and how he is homophobic.
It is very difficult for them to see the true analysis of the conflict from a dialectic instead of weighing “good” and “bad” things on their personal ideological scales and adjusting their thoughts accordingly (never mind that the have their thumbs on the scales against Russia)
