the problem I see with this is that every capitulation to imperialism also has the socialist label openly tacked onto it when you run unaccountable Democrats, and that runs the risk of just siphoning the US working class into a “chauvinist social democracy = socialism” form of crude, underdeveloped class consciousness that throws global south proles under the bus. it also runs the risk of alienating portions of the US working class who have been directly impacted by imperialism (e.g. many immigrant workers), not to mention potential international allies of any future American socialist movement.
without a firm line or party apparatus holding these candidates accountable it seems that this kind of thing can just run amok without real consequence. and I’m frankly not sure how interested many DSA rank-and-file are in reigning in these types of chauvinist brainworms and concessions.
I agree with your concern, and I think it’s important that those contradictions within DSA are sorted out by the active membership which are largely marxists ideologically. They certainly have been coming to fruition more and more frequently as the direction DSA breaks more with its liberal/socdem membership and leans into more principled socialist stances.
I think the lib/socdem DSA served an important role in its time and place as a visible org with enough active socialists that it showed those disillusioned or nascent members of the American left that there was a place to go post-Bernie if you were thinking about taking these things even marginally more seriously. Turns out a lot of people took them very seriously, and that’s what brought us to the points of contradiction within DSA that we see today. It continues to serve that purpose, but as affinity for socialism grows in America in combination with the critical mass of Marxists already within DSA, I’m confident some kind of actual socialist party/org can grow out of DSA if it doesn’t grow into one itself.
I like PSL and the work they do and have some good friends who are part of the org. I just find that I think a more fruitful org is poised to grow out of DSA than already exists in PSL for a few reasons. Both definitely have their unique problems internally, but I see DSA changing to address them in a much more dynamic way
the problem I see with this is that every capitulation to imperialism also has the socialist label openly tacked onto it when you run unaccountable Democrats, and that runs the risk of just siphoning the US working class into a “chauvinist social democracy = socialism” form of crude, underdeveloped class consciousness that throws global south proles under the bus. it also runs the risk of alienating portions of the US working class who have been directly impacted by imperialism (e.g. many immigrant workers), not to mention potential international allies of any future American socialist movement.
without a firm line or party apparatus holding these candidates accountable it seems that this kind of thing can just run amok without real consequence. and I’m frankly not sure how interested many DSA rank-and-file are in reigning in these types of chauvinist brainworms and concessions.
I agree with your concern, and I think it’s important that those contradictions within DSA are sorted out by the active membership which are largely marxists ideologically. They certainly have been coming to fruition more and more frequently as the direction DSA breaks more with its liberal/socdem membership and leans into more principled socialist stances.
I think the lib/socdem DSA served an important role in its time and place as a visible org with enough active socialists that it showed those disillusioned or nascent members of the American left that there was a place to go post-Bernie if you were thinking about taking these things even marginally more seriously. Turns out a lot of people took them very seriously, and that’s what brought us to the points of contradiction within DSA that we see today. It continues to serve that purpose, but as affinity for socialism grows in America in combination with the critical mass of Marxists already within DSA, I’m confident some kind of actual socialist party/org can grow out of DSA if it doesn’t grow into one itself.
Or you could all just leave the DSA right now and join an actual socialist party like the PSL.
I like PSL and the work they do and have some good friends who are part of the org. I just find that I think a more fruitful org is poised to grow out of DSA than already exists in PSL for a few reasons. Both definitely have their unique problems internally, but I see DSA changing to address them in a much more dynamic way
What is this even depicting?