- cross-posted to:
- france@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- france@lemmit.online
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On the other hand, if we had not saved daylight we would have probably ran out by now.
It’s “have run,” not “have ran.” Thanks for coming to my TURD Talk.
A lot of people have started using simple past tense for all perfect tenses lately, but I don’t like change, dangit.
Yeah I mostly learned English watching Cartoon Network, when it wasn’t with subtitles or dubbed. They basically started airing in the Netherlands and an entire generation learned English by watching cartoons after school.
This is now repeating with YouTube and teens watching a lot of English youtubers.
I miss those days, Dexter’s laboratory, Dragonball Z, two stupid dogs…
Beam me up Scotty!
i can make arguments for both cases;
PRO-SIMPLE FORM:
-
Perfect forms of verbs are redundant: Simple past tense doesn’t have an auxiliary verb anyway so you can already differentiate it from perfect or passive cases when you use it with have or be respectively.
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Easier to learn one variation of each verb than two
PRO-PERFECT FORM:
- Redundancy in language is good, losing one part of a sentence due to noise, signal loss or damage to medium may be saved by a redundant part making communication more reliable.
but also:
- regular verbs already have identical simple and perfect forms
which kind of tips the scales I think. perfect forms are already inconsistent, and verbs with identical forms already prove there’s no significant loss in not having a distinct perfect form. I was gonna add “can be used alone and carry its own meaning (eg drunk)” as a bullet point in favor of perfect forms but regular verbs with no distinct perfect form can also be used alone and still carry the meaning (eg beloved)
so yeah I think distinct perfect forms are on their way out, long term.
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I heard there’s more car crashes in the morning if you get rid of daylight savings time
I heard the opposite though
I heard a lot of things surrounding daylight savings, but I belive that it’s just bad for us.
Years ago, the EU parliament decided to abandon DST - with a vast majority. They sent it to the governments as “Homework” to determine whether to keep Summer- or Standard Time. Nothing came out of it.
The EU parliament didn’t vote to abandon DST, they voted for letting countries decide if they want to do DST or if they want to stick to one time zone. Apparently most countries decided to stick with DST.
They should obviously keep standard time. No one wants light at 10pm!!!
I would 100% rather light at 10pm than 4am where it’s totally wasted.
Current light breakdown in Ireland over the year:
DST basically robs you of useful outdoors time in summer. Want to spend some time outside after work? You can’t because of the scorching hot sun. Thanks to DST it’s time for bed by the time it has cooled down enough to be outside. Of course by then it’s still too hot to sleep so you’re fucked anyway. By the time it has cooled down enough to sleep it’s almost time to get up again.
If we want to move the clock then we should move it backwards in summer instead of forwards. That way we get more time in the evening where it’s nice to be outdoors, we get to sleep when it has cooled down a bit more. In the morning the sun would be up earlier but blackout curtains solve that issue, and temperature lags behind the sun anyway so we get to sleep in the least hot part of the night.
DST is the worst invention ever.
I always forget how far north a lot of Europe is. The fact Dublin is further north than most Canadian major cities throws me for a loop
Yeah it’s one of those weird map oddities that’s more noticeable on a globe.
We are mega fucked here if the gulf of Mexico ever stops sending us that warm water goodness.
You mean the Gulf of America? /s
Gulf of release the Epstein files
It’s actually the Atlantic Ocean arm of the Oceanic Conveyor Belt bringing to Europe warm waters from Africa.
The only relation with the Gulf Of Mexico is that the western side of that current (which goes in the opposite direction, so North -> South, along the Eastern Northern and Southern America) passes alongside it.
Literally the plot of “The Day after Tomorrow” although the movie is ridiculously over the top of course
The movie takes a real mechanism, a plausible concern, then cranks the intensity of the issue to eleven and uses that exaggerated catastrophe as foundation for its setting. It’s absurd in magnitude, but not in premise.
Idk what you want since you’re only getting about 4 hours of night in the summer. You gotta just waste some daylight when you live that far north
nah, I want to see the stars without having to stay up late, and light until 10pm would mess with my body’s schedule
No one wants light at 10pm!!!
I do
I stand corrected. People seem to love evening sunlight
I live in Spain, having light at 11 pm is pretty cool.
You live in the western end of your time zone, and at a pretty high latitude. That’s the only way to get sunset after 10pm. Your summer sunrise must be about 3am. And you must only see about 5 hours of daylight during winter.
If you are experiencing sunset 2 hours before midnight, the eastern end of your time zone is experiencing sunrise two hours after midnight. Nobody wants sunrise at 2am.
I would say that you should not be in your time zone. Your region should be in the next time zone to the west. Their DST schedule is your standard time schedule.
Alternatively, there is nothing stopping the eastern end of your time zone from joining the next zone to the east, so that their year-round clocks make more sense for them.
Any viable plan to lock the clocks is going to have to include provisions for our regions to select the time zone we want to use.
They don’t have to be far west for sunset at 22 (with DST as I think you missed), just far enough north. With 6 hours of night in the summer, the centre of the timezone will have nighttime from 22 to 4.
“far enough north” for this effect is above 59° latitude, and doesn’t include places like Iceland that don’t observe DST. The population density above 59° is a rounding error above zero.
The only place to reach it in the southern hemisphere is Antarctica itself and a few islands.
Their votes and opinions certainly count, but the rest of the world should not be forced to use a bad time system just to appease the very few who live that high. Especially when they have other alternatives available to resolve their problem.
The overwhelming majority of people who experience this effect of DST are on the west end of their current time zones at a much lower latitude.
“far enough north” for this effect is above 59° latitude
What are you on about? I’m at 52º North and from May 20th until the 25th of July there is no night at all. Best we get is about 3 hours of astronomical twilight.
What you have to realise is that according to them, half of Europe is a rounding error when it comes to discussing Europe specific problems.
DST is hardly specific to Europe.
Stockholm, Helsinki, St. Petersburg would like a word…
Remember to default to “they” and not “he” for people with unknown pronouns and unknown gender
My bad, fixed. Thanks for keeping me vigilant.
It is a bit more complicated. Back in the time (no pun intended) they made a mess by putting most of Europe in one time zone, from west of Spain to east of Poland. Which is 9° west to 28° east, more than 2 and a half time zones. Technically, Europe should split into at least two time zones. And this is going to be a mess.
Light at 10pm isn’t useful, but neither is light at 4am
Dawn at 5:30 or later would be best
They were asking for feedback and I sure wrote a bunch and sent an email or wtv it was supporting the idea of killing it please for yesterday.
Yes, please, do it already!
It’s about time.
No. It’s one hour too early.
Not a minute too late!
While summer time is better for daylight after work, winter time is the one where at 12 the sun is at the highest point.
At least in Germany, there is no winter time. There is normal time (Normalzeit) and summer time (Sommerzeit).
Depends on where you live. If youre west of Germany but on the mainland, winter is the one where the sun is highest between 1 and 2. Summer time is even worse though, between 2 and 3.
It doesn’t even matter which they pick, just pick one! We’re free to live our lives independently from the clock. There’s no natural law that states work starts at 8.
Isn’t the most important industry dependent(photosynthesis doesn’t wait for you) on the clock? I guess you mean the numbers we choose don’t really matter, then I agree.
Yes, it could say alpha for all I care. As you say, the sun dictates the day, not our clock, but the grindset is so entrenched that it’s easier to change clocks than individual work settings.
If Spain chooses to continue to synchronize opening hours with central Europe, they can do that regardless of what the number on the clock is.
Pick real time and let people adjust their schedules. It’s easier and the science backs it up.
Pick real time
And have to put up with Bill Maher? No thanks.
Solar time.
YES FINALLY!
Funny coincidence that they started doing that after i commited myself to life in winter time for ever. Wake up at 5 summer time and 6 winter time
UTC for all.
Man that would fucking blow for so many people.
The date would change in the middle of a business day
Fun fact: In some countries you can say “see you tomorrow” when going for lunch.
Live service game enjoyers everywhere: yourfirsttimequestionmark.gif
People who work night shift:
Like it changes at midnight?
I mean that’s not really the issue
The issue is like restaurants opening for dinner at 7AM and such
It would be a big cultural shift
Like if midnight was the middle of your solar day (and work day) like it would be in many countries, it’d be pretty tricky for a lot of things.
I see it as a giant hammer of a solution. The times you could just get used to be the day shift in the middle of stuff seems tough to me
Store hours:
Monday 20-24
Tuesday 0-6, 20-24
Etc
Or perhaps
Monday 20-06 Tuesday 20-06
But like bank transactions, rent being due on a certain day, like it all becomes tough in my opinion. Nevermind all the code that would be insanely broken
Bars already have schedules like that and it’s not an issue
You can add time to due dates to. It wouldn’t be that problematic. Or just keep the day only
Actually code would probably be the easiest thing. Unless it’s very badly programmed computers don’t care about what the actual date is, the care how many seconds have passed.
The hardest thing to reprogram would be human culture. I suspect there would be massive pushback against the idea.
I agree, but I think that 80% of the code I’ve seen in my life that isn’t based on OS time would be very broken. Factory automation and the like.
A fixable problem, but again largely unnecessary one imo
I hate DST though and think that either summer or winter time permanently would both be better than switching
Spain should start by switching to it’s logical time-zone. But then, yes, please. Longer evenings much preferred.
What’s the “logical” time zone?
The one closer to Spanish solar time, or the one shared by most EU countries, which facilitates trade and cross-border cooperation?We don’t have our current time zone because of that. We have it because a fascist dictator wanted to be on the same time zone as Hitler.
And the logical timezone is of course GMT, the one closer to Spanish solar time. It’s been proven that it’s not healthy to be in a timezone that doesn’t correspond to your solar time, unless you adapt all the schedules to follow the sun.
Then adapt the schedules without making every cross-border interaction artificially messier
Any particular reason why a sovereign country can’t just decide to do this on its own? Why does it have to be a pan-european thing?
Time chaos in EU.
Imagine organizing military responses or shipping logistics when you can go under an hour then forward and then under an hour again just crossing 3 countries.
Time bandits even!
Now that’s a reference 👌
Eh, it works fine in Arizona. The US uses daylight savings, but Arizona doesn’t, except for some of the reservations in Arizona that do. You can go forward and back an hour twice just crossing Arizona
Ninja edit: As I say that, I remember why I even know that - I once spent an entire morning working out a bug in one of my daily jobs. Turned out because a team member in Arizona wrote the script and scheduled it, and a different team member not in Arizona wrote an orchestration to collect results, they ended up off-sync once daylight savings hit. Maybe it doesn’t work
The true problem here is using individual floating reference time instead of fixed or shared reference times.
Programming should always use Epoch or UTC+0 internally. All translation to local time would be just that, a translation.
The majority of similar scheduling bugs is due to not being explicit with what your reference time is. For automated background tasks that should always be absolute time. It’s only when you’re scheduling in reference to events that run at times that are fixed to their local timezones that you should be referring to that kind of floating reference, and then you should link all the references together so everything connected to the event pulls the same timezone reference, etc
I suggest we start using a new metric:
It’s been x amount of seconds since the USA empire fell.
So it’s the year 65 right now?
So it’s the year 65 right now?
So you’re saying that the USA fell when Black people got Civil Rights? 🤔
Sus 👀
YESSSSSS
Let’s keep summer time, It’s already dark before 18, once we’ll switch to winter time it’ll be dark before 17. The benefit is that instead of going to work and starting to work when it’s dark ,we’ll go to work when it’s dark and start to work at dawn. Not worth-it
There’s a large population where this has no meaning. The sun rises at 10 AM and sets at 1 PM in the winter here where I live. There’s nothing to gain for us, only problems and missed meetings and school mornings and extra stress on kids and parents having to adjust their sleeping routines days in advance. It sucks ass, absolutely not worth it even if we did live in the very specific latitudes where this is perfect. Down with daylight savings! ✊
Are you a polar bear? How can you survive with 3h of sunlight a day?
You must be new to Lemmy, 3h of sunlight is way more than most of us basement dwellers get.
Imagine getting 3 hours of sunlight a day in winter. Where I live north of the Arctic circle we get none for many weeks every winter!
I feel your username is a clue about survival lol.
Vitamin D.
Also we get like 21h of sunlight during the summer so that’s pretty neat.
I’m not sure neat is the word I’d use to describe that hellish landscape, but might be a language issue… :)
Which hellish landscape are you talking about? Remember you could be talking about someone’s home. 😜
Standard time is objectively better for health. Brighter mornings is so much more important
Fuck bright mornings, I want some daylight to do shit outside after coming home from work.
Bring a flashlight and enjoy your health
Oh yes that splendid health of mine that’s greatly prospering from watching the nice daylight being wasted while I’m sitting at fucking work, where it doesn’t matter whether it’s daylight outside or not, very well knowing that it’s dark outside when I leave home to get there, as it will be only just dark outside when I get back for 4 months a fucking year, because a bunch of patronising arseholes are fiddling with the clock twice a year.
I could tell you where to shove that Flashlight of yours in order to enjoy it in a healthy way, but I don’t want to be as patronising as you and feel that if you’re so knowledgeable about health, you’ll figure that out all by yourself.
These people will happily give you scientific methods for enjoying it
No one stops you from getting up 1h earlier in the morning.
Permanent summer time would force everyone to do it.You got down voted but no-one actually counters that argument.
Why should everyone be forced to get up earlier because some of the population want to? They can already do that!
And to people who say “mORe LiGhT iN tHe evEnINgS” - for most of us in Europe it’ll only buy you a few weeks at most and then it’ll be dark by the time you finish work/school anyway.
Most people don’t have much control over their working hours.
Which is exactly my point. Summer time forces me to get up 1h earlier than normal because I can’t choose to come to work an hour late.
But with normal time, you can always choose to live on “summer time” for yourself by getting up an hour early.
Because shifting schedules by an hour randomly in the middle of the year twice is physically damaging and bad for your health, that impacts you. And maybe it’s not so bad for you, you work shifting hours, no biggie. Try to imagine that you had that regular schedule and suddenly it changed, it did bother you, perhaps make decisions based on that.
If you can’t imagine anyone else having thoughts, feelings, or emotions different from yours, consider that when you’re crossing the street the day after daylight savings time, you’re being passed by people who didn’t get enough sleep and maybe they’re like you, but they might not be, and that could directly impact you too.
It’s such a simple small change to a weird tradition that has no more purpose in our modern world than the “moonlight lamps” of the US or the penny farthing. They may be historically important or interesting, but that doesn’t mean you should be forced to use them. Change can be scary but it’s gonna be ok, daylight savings time will inevitably end up the way of the funny big wheeled bike, it’s just a matter of when and how. You can always choose to wake up early all year round.
I feel like you’re agreeing with me but your comment is phrased like you’re disagreeing
And to add to that: It would make the winter mornings so, so much darker.
I don’t think many people consider how that would affect them.
Just get up like it would be summertime.
At the mere mention of changing the summer time, you get all bar and restaurant people shouting to not touch it.
But actually we’re in the wrong time zone too, so summer time is actually just having office hours from 07:00 to 15:00 solar time but with more lying.
Maybe at some point we abandon timezones all together… One can only hope…
Marvelous idea, let’s disregard well established language and time critical systems already relying on the existence of timezones that can’t easily be updated for… Being able to tell people your time without actually conveying information.
“Hey wanna play some videya” I ask my friends on another continent during noon “Sorry, its not quite dark yet but already too late for hideogame” -my friend, for whom the sun is still visible, but its a little bit too late, wishing there was a way to easily convey the fact that it is 21:00
Time zones may suck for programmers, but everyone who thinks even a little bit about human to human communication realizes how stupid it is. But I digress, were on lemmy; we dont do human to human communication often
we dont do human to human communication often
Apparently not. Why wouldn’t you just say, “sorry, going to sleep soon” in your example? How is saying it’s 21:00 local time critical to communicate that it’s too late for games? Why would that inherently communicate that? 21:00 is a pretty normal time for me to be playing games
And saying “let’s play at 06:00” still doesn’t make any sense because once again, 6 for me and for you is different
You should at least know where someone lives and you can do the conversion. Either way, maybe you would have an established way of communicating with a gaming mate or a guild or something, like only posting times in UTC for example. We have this already. 🙂
You mean that we already have a system in place, being UTC, for when timing is important where “lateness” is not important, like for a livestream, however a removal of timezones would make human to human interaction worse where “lateness” is important (basically everything between a small group of people). Like what happens if you dont know someone’s timezone like on a lemmy comment, go ahead is it 14:00 for you? Sorry I mean is it in the night? Sorry its winter, so night starts earlier. How long ago was the sunset so I can know how tired you are so we can sync up and develop a feeling/estimation on how how long we will play videojames.
Yes the sillyness of choosing videogames and live streams is chosen deliberately, because I, as a normal human being, do not give a shit about how time zone influences the stock market and their finances. I just want to quickly know for how long you’d be able to play without deliberately ask for that.
“Wanna play monopoly?” “Its 22:00” “An OK, how about some uno?”
The 22 immediately conveys me that a: you are tired and probably dont want to do math b: you aren’t gonna stick around for the 6h of a monopoly game c: if I do want to play monopoly, I can estimate how much earlier I need to ask next time
If the 2nd person said"its evening", it could’ve been anywhere from 16 to 20, and depending on the personal opinion of the second person, it could be from 18 to 22, good luck doing any planning
Or do you want to have to say that the sun is up but it is slightly too late for monopoly? Also what does late mean? If you generally go to bed at 20 because you have to wake up at 5 for work, even 18 is late; good luck explaining that to someone without being able to use numbers everyone understands similarly enough. (Remember: no time zones == 10, noon for me, could be midnight for you, however since we use the same numbe with different meanings, we can’t easily say shit)
This was a pretty rambling comment and hard for me to follow, in all honesty.
I think if you ask someone to play Monopoly, you wouldn’t get a reply saying “it’s 22:00”, you’d get a reply saying “nah, I have to get to bed”, or “yes”. It’s not really an issue whether or not we have universal time or time zones. I don’t know anybody who would reply in that robotic way. But I don’t know your friends.
Anyway, because of the confusing structure of your comment, I’ll just ask: what is the problem you’re having and how do you propose to fix it? And why does the current system not work for you? I can’t decipher that from your comment, sorry.
That would imply everyone living in the same time zone wake up at the same time, go to bed at the same time, etc, where this is clearly not even close to being true. If it’s too late to start a monopoly game for you, you can just say so
Shops, schools etc should just have hours that make sense for the local solar time anyway
Sorry I may have worded it not good within my ramble. Yes you are correct in that not everyone has the same sleep schedule, but it doesn’t really matter does it? 12:00 is still 12:00, we know what we mean; this doesn’t work between countries (or the same like China if its big enough for different timezones (which like China intentionally adopted because of specifically this reason)). Since 12 for me and for you are different, we have to do a handshake of how what number means which can be avoided with time zones. I know that 03:00 is night for you (whoa I dont even need to know in which county in which country you live)
To go back to monopoly, since you also responded to that “Want to play monopoly” “No” Why? Too late? Not interested? And when you answer with “its too late” I dont know if its too late for anything, as it currently 15:00, or because its 11:00, and you have enough time to play one or two rounds of uno
Likewise the example another user used down below with traveling. If one usually wakes up at 06:00, one would have to look up, and calculate to what they have to change their alarm to go off at the approximately correct time, which will be ass for people traveling for work often
You seem to have missed at least part of my point. To keep with the monopoly example, you already can’t assume that it’s too late for anything or there’s time for a game of Uno, because people have different rhythms and there’s variance, so even if you know it’s 2300 for them it still doesn’t solve the problem, you are just making an assumption which may or may not be correct on any given day for any given person.
I can’t understand if you are promoting time zones or if you want to get rid of them. Which is your stance on time zones?
That was extremely dumb and illogical, tbh. I can think of several ways to implement the change just offhand. Author just picked the dumbest way he could think of so he could oppose the issue.
Fun read, I appreciate how much effort people put into saying nah uh, I don’t want/like change…
I will continue hoping quietly.
Best link in the whole discussion.
To be honest, that’s not the worst idea. It would have a ton of implications, but long term this would work fine.
It’s a really stupid idea because it robs the numbers of meaning. We already have UTC for transworld clarity. Abolishing time zones just complicates all of everyone’s daily life whilst making only a few things easier. It even complicates communication about what time it is in different time zones because you took the numerical offset away.
I don’t get the downvotes. They abolished timezones in China (around 1950?) and 5 geographical timezones are just going on Beijing time and have been for a while.
Although I’m not sure if they still use “local time”, idk, and then it kind of defeats the purpose…They kinda do use local time anyway from what I know, yes
You know the whole world isnt the USA, right?
You would think they do considering they are registered with a .uk instance. What does what they said have to do with America?
I don’t hope for this. Traveling to another country would really be weird, because you’d have to convert everything all the time while you’re there. Like, what should I set my alarm to in order to wake up when I usually wake up in the morning? Instead of just setting it to 6 am or whatever, like normal.
How would that work?
Easy, everyone just uses UTC (or what ever) now.
It’s not a technical problem, but good luck convincing people around the world to adopt it.
Time zones are fine as they are. They are less confusing than having 23:00 be close to midnight in one place, early morning in another and noon in another place. It would also result in many places either changing the date at random times or having a different date in the morning and in the evening.
I never said they weren’t.
