The commie org that I am a member of is looking to move off of Discord given the fuckery with their age verification controversy and general insecure-ness about it.
A couple options have been put forward, mostly Discord clones because that’s what people are comfortable using.
Personally, I am pushing for something that supports end-to-end encryption like Element/Matrix, but there are of course some drawbacks (it’s a bit buggy/glitchy sometimes esp with video calls, and it doesn’t seem to support whimsical emojis unless I am mistaken)
Is anyone able to provide some suggestions? Ideally I’d like to encourage something that is open source and supports encrypted messaging, but also user friendly if possible. I have used Element/Riot/Matrix for years and I know it can be a pain in the dick (especially for n00bs) with setting up encryption keys and whatnot, but IMO is probably worth the trouble.
What other options should we be looking into? Telegram? WhatsApp? AFAIK there is Pissraeli Pegasus (and probably other) malware that specifically targets broadly used applications even though they are touted as secure and encrypted etc.
i’ve given up on matrix tbh and now don’t trust them cuz of finding out about the israeli funding. after looking around a bit since the latest discord fuckery, this project called haven seems interesting. looks like it emulates most discord features and easy selfhosting, has roles and permissions similar to discord. i haven’t tried it yet, but from scrolling through their site it seems promising.
I’mI will always suggest Delta Chat because you don’t have to give any sort of phone number or email and can just send someone an invitation QR to join your contacts.
It’s all encrypted by default. It’s more like WhatsApp than Matrix though and in group chats, everyone has equal privileges. So if you need to maintain strict access controls and can’t risk everyone getting kicked out of the chat but a rogue member, then it probably won’t work. But it’s really good for 1:1 communication or small groups of trusted people.
As far as I know the main creator isn’t into anyyhing terrible, whereas Matrix has Israeli ties and the SimpleX guy used to post transphobic stuff on Mastodon. His only sin is being born German.
Ive picked up Deltachat and I’m liking it for personal chats. LikenOP I am looming for something more robust for structured messaging.
I really dislike how Matrix can have an “encryption meltdown” that is annoying to recover from. I don’t want to deal with it, and I don’t want to be the point person to support someone else sorting it out either. I really hate that element doesn’t support multiple profiles too.
Signal is good, end-to-end encrypted, probably the best bet for an accessible secure option. Open-source, group chats, good calls, has very functional desktop + mobile apps, a variety of options for enhanced security (eg disappearing messages, extra-hops for call obscurity). As always, the biggest flaw will be on phones where (as with every officially installed app), Google/Apple will deploy US spyware at a minute’s notice.
Stoat(/revolt) is open source, meaningfully secure, and very Discord-like. However, servers are not end-to-end encrypted and it’s EU-hosted. Video calls are still beta.
Element does tick the boxes. Personally I’ve run into too many bugs and confusing issues to like using it.
WhatsApp very deliberately harvests all your metadata (though theoretically technically not chat contents (though who believes that)), it will harvest and log times you’re online, when you send and receive chats, possibly even the length of those chats. This data is frequently subpeonad. I would not use it for anything secure ever.
I would ABSOLUTELY not recommend Signal for org work. Personal communication, sure, but org infrastructure should be self-hosted, and MUST NOT require PII (phone numbers) for access.
It is better than SMS, but not sufficient. It has all of the same vulnerabilities as WhatsApp from an architectural point of view. Their reputation, and the availability of free software clients is the only major difference.
Very good point, honestly I’d forgotten about the Phone number link.
TLDR: Check out Mattermost, look out for Fluxer in the coming months.
You will probably need to lean in to something self-hosted to get what you want.
Look into Mattermost which is a company-backed open source Slack alternative. I haven’t uses it extensively, but I thought it was decent. Its a bit annoying that there are paid features though.
I am also closely keeping an eye on Fluxer, which is being developed as a FOSS Discord alternative with full feature parity. It already has some momentum with people looking for a Discord alternative as they plan for an IPO this month (plus the face scanning and stuff).
Once they have self-hosting properly documented and supported, I’m going to give it a go.
The issue with apps is that it kinda sucks to ask you users to get something new that they aren’t using yet. I only like to do that when I have confidence in the product. i think Fluxer will have its own momentum, so I won’t be the only person saying “hey everyone, let’s get tf off discord”
Maybe Signal or Briar if encryption is a top priority, unfortunately there no good chat apps that are like discord and have encryption (besides matrix, but good is a huge stretch)
Matrix, Signal, Onionshare is great if you need to throw something together quick and secure but it’s not fancy.
Maybe look into this https://simplex.chat/ I haven’t dug very deeply yet but it looks interesting. I don’t really like or trust Matrix.
Unfortunately the dev is a transphobe
