Whenever I see one of these threads, I go inside. “Removed by Mod”. 90% of the time, based on the replies and comments around it, it looks like the removed comment just said some dumb shit or was heavily disagreed with.
Why are we removing people we disagree with from the discussion? There are like eight people were had all their comments stripped from this thread. WTF is going on?
Removing racism and chauvinistic shit is a good thing. This isn’t a debate class.
After a while you get tired of reading “Chinese bot, Russian orc, wumao CCP shill, everyone is North Korea is dead, communists killed everyone on earth, Hamas is terrorists, Iran killed eighty trillion people in 3 days, you are a communist because you are mentally defective, vote blue no matter who.”
@RiverRock @Omnipitaph It’s probably people who don’t even have critical thinking
mostly because these comments are almost always racist and xenophobic
You know what, that’s fair. Its just so often! I sometimes forget that Lemmy is fringe and attracts all kinds of people, and not all of them are polite.
You have been indoctrinated with the attitude that everyone’s opinion is equal and fools must be suffered. This is a community, not a street corner.
Well yes, that is how a democracy works. If someone says something stupid, publicly, they get it kicked right back up their ass. I’d rather participate in kicking the stupid back up a person’s ass than wade through pages of a one-way conversation. Maybe that’s just me.
Does a community get to decide who is a part of it? Who is the ‘demos’ in your democracy?
Depends on which instance is doing the removing but around here it’s usually just racism and orientalism getting removed on this kind of post.
To be fair none of these countries is socialist or even communist. And we hardly have accurate statistics about north Korea. Not that I disagree with the underlying point.
Both countries are run by ML parties following revolution and would therefore be designated both socialist and communist based on like 100 years of precedent.
The WPK is Kimilsungist-Kimjongilist, technically, though ML is accepted as the basis of Kimilsungism-Kimjongilism, just with the juche idea added on top.
Both China and the DPRK are socialist countries. Public ownership is the principal aspect of their economies, and the working classes control the state.
the working classes control the state
X to doubt.
Doubt all you like, but both the WPK and CPC are overwhelmingly proletarian parties in states where the commanding heights and backbone of the economy are publicly owned at a minimum.
Public ownership + a proletarian ruling party ≠ the working class controls the state.
State ownership is not automatically worker control. Even if a ruling party genuinely represents the working class, that does not by itself establish that ordinary workers possess meaningful power over the state or over the party leadership.
to be fair, you should spend some time actually learning what socialism is before forming opinions
I did but i would be genuinely interested what you mean. Maybe I should have frased it as genuinely socialist or fully socialist I admit that.
Socialism is a transitional state between capitalism and communism, where the working class holds power in society but existing social relations have not been abolished. This is precisely what you have in China and DPRK. Both are genuinely socialist.
I think its not entirely false but more complicated. But this discussion is quite old. As I said i don’t disagree wit the underlying Point of yours.
China is just bribing people to continue living by providing material improvements to their quality of life. That’s cheating 😤
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I’m afraid my brain is just too wrinkly to allow facts and evidence to just slide off it and just imagine that reality is whatever I feel like based on absolutely nothing, like you can.
You dummy, the reason people don’t commit suicide in aUThOriTAiaN StAtEs because the government would murder them for it.
When you commit suicide there they just call in juche necromancer, resurrect you, give you a poetry book and armed guard yell at you “START WRITING” all the time.
Reminds me of Death & Taxes (I don’t know the game aside from this song)
It would be great to have the complete unit of measure displayed here. It’s suicides per 100k capita. Does not change the relative proportions, but is needed for the full picture.
One of those posts where people who know nothing but have opinions they must speak come together to enlighten the poor tankies. Can we at least drop the white saviour mentality this time guys?
Impossible.
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Source?
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Neither source seems to point towards fudged numbers, more towards an increase in suicides as a societal issue to be tackled. Nobody said there’s no suicide in China.
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I’d need to see evidence of this, all you’ve done is list suspicions.
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All countries have a political interest in showing themselves as better, though. I’m aware enough of China’s history to know that your allegations are just that, allegations.
Is this the data you’re looking for? I don’t have a voice in this argument, I just thought the idea that you can’t look this stuff up is interesting, so I did a single Google search. Sorry if this isn’t helpful.
https://weekly.chinacdc.cn/en/article/doi/10.46234/ccdcw2023.109
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when google is blocked at the troll farm
Inb4 “no but they’re commies so they must be lying”
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Neither China nor the DPRK are fascist, are you saying fascists lie about China and the DPRK? I agree, that definitely happens.
TIL China has lower suicide rates than nearly all other developed countries. Honestly thought they’d be higher.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide_rate
That is a damn awesome result in just 30 years.
In the 90s it was 3 times as much, so the change is incredible.
It is also understandable how they succeeded in that - majority of suicides were young women in rural hukou. With urbanization progress, improvements to standard of living, with having options, just young women suicides dropped 90% (source: https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC6775931/).
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Reminds me of when there were no homosexuals in Iran 😆
If you trust these numbers, you’re a fool.
Why? They are from both WHO and CDC. Instead of spewing shit, you really should check the sources first lol.
It’s true, they’re likely far higher in occupied province of Taiwan and occupied Korea.
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Oh look it’s you. I should have known, China’s #1 Lemmy propagandist.
mald harder lib
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It doesn’t matter which country I live in, I will still want to not exist on earth.
the moon?
Imagine being so naive that you believe the propaganda coming out of countries known for their well-documented disinformation policies.
Edit: Imagine being so naive to think that a statement about one thing is somehow also a statement about other things not specifically mentioned. Y’all must clearly also have trouble with statements like “Black Lives Matter” don’t you?
Yea, imagine believing western countries, amirite?
Definitely, people in western countries rarely leave their bubble of the 5 or so anti-communist media companies that control everything they see.
Yes, it‘s truly insane that people trust the West so blindly, even though it’s well documented how the CIA and the West in general used misinformation and propaganda to destabilize communities and whole countries. Why should anyone think they ever stopped doing that? And what is it with their billionaires owned “free press”? Who would trust that?
That’s exactly why I don’t put stock in the insane mythologies put forward by capitalist oligarchies about their enemies.
Well-documented
Can I see some of this documentation?
Can I see some of this documentation?
Sure. Go look it up for yourself. It isn’t hard to find. You don’t need my consent or permission to do your own homework. Nobody’s going to do it for you.
This is just the antivax “do your own research” but for defending the worldview given to you by Epsteinland🇺🇲🇮🇱 before you were old enough to ask questions, which is very on-brand for them.
You made a claim, you back it up. Show me something.
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Go back to reddit you fucking dork
New tagline material tbh
You started with “I don’t owe you my time” and then wrote a paragraph-long crashout when posting evidence of your claims would have taken you five seconds.
Go back to reddit
You must be confused. I don’t trust western propaganda one bit.
I think that’s kind of the problem in general, the real issue is, the firewalls and controls. It’s not about believing the western propoganda, but simply the lack of non-propoganda sources. IE how can you find out if finland’s policies are better than america’s.
Hop into a public chat room, chat with someone from finland, or book a vacation to Finland or maybe find someone from Finland who’s visiting or moved to the united states.
Not something you can really do with North Korea.
You can still talk to exchange students who attend Kim Il Sung university and other visitors to the DPRK. There are also those from the DPRK who work abroad, such as those in China, as well as those who live in New York for UN purposes.
The irony is palpable.
Like America?
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Who told you that NK “sucks”, and why do you trust them?
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Then why say anything at all?
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100% of the time this is code for “you’re not going to be satisfied with my answer.”
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Oh god even the mods, oh fuck they’re gaining power we need to call the nazis in to kill them in the name of democracy
To be fair, that’s something a person who realizes that the western system is a failure, but still uncritically guzzles propaganda about western adversaries would believe.
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What specific actions by Kim Jong Un equate him to Trump? The reason I ask is because, through cultural hegemony, we are trained in an almost Pavlovian way to immediately associate anything related to the DPRK as bad. We are not “free thinkers,” the way we think is shaped by the ruling class in society. We have to be cognizant of this and constantly question whether we believe what we do based on facts, or “common sense,” which is in reality ruling class ideology.
Being able to name specific, concrete policies by Kim Jong Un you believe to be bad would help make this a more objective judgement. For example, how do you feel about the 20x10 policy? Is it harmful, beneficial, too ambitious, not ambitious enough? For Trump, it’s very easy to point to the war on Iran, embargo on Cuba, expansion of ICE, etc. as actual problems, but when we think of Kim Jong Un, what policies actually come to mind as negative?
Ok there genius, explain to me what a just leader who isn’t corrupt would be doing differently? https://www.wsj.com/world/asia/north-korea-economy-success-e80f7062
Genuine question, is North Korea considered a monarchy (or monarcho-socialist), considering the Kim family has ruled it uncontested for generations? I know that a lot of stuff you read about North Korea in mainstream news is misinformation/propaganda so I’m curious
No, every political position held by members of the Kim family is open to anyone else. They don’t have a competition based electoral system, and instead do consensus building before approval voting.
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No?
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source: cryptic symbolism in my dreams
but seriously: are the bougies paying you a commission to go around spewing bullshit, or you just enjoy running your mouth about places you know less than nothing about?
No I’ve read extensively about how the DPRK works. I stand by what I said before I had the KGB man coming around to bash it with a heavy object.
And before you all start screeching lib I actually think China is leading the world currently and while a bit on the authoritarian side for my taste is clearly pioneering a superior system to the west in general.
sure thing bud
☝️🤓
complete with castes and borderline feudalism
Just making shit up whole cloth
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What about reporting from the DPRK makes it inherently less trustworthy?
but pedo oligarch owned media told them not to trust DPRK media, and pedo oligarchs would never lie
Oh silly me, duh
