I’ve said this before… if you hate Biden’s policy on Israel and Gaza, Trump will be even worse!
Remember when Israel illegally invaded Lebanon to set up “a security zone”?
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Israeli_occupation_of_Southern_Lebanon
Yeah, Trump wants to do that with Mexico.
I’m a said this before… You can hate both.
Sure, you can hate both, but unless you want Trump policies here, you have to vote Biden.
More to the point, in a FPTP + EC, a failure to vote for the candidate you hate least in certain states gives the candidate you hate more a better chance of winning the presidency.
While the propagandists would have us believe otherwise, this is not “supporting ‘genocide’.” It’s just math.
Do you live in Illinois? Idaho? Vote for whoever you want. Illinois is going to send its electors for Biden, and Idaho is going to send its electors for Trump, and your vote is not going to change that. Wisconsin, Pennsylvania, Arizona? Check yourself before you wreck fucking everything.
And even if you live in Idaho, stop telling people on the internet to abstain!!!
Yup! But not knowing the state someone is posting from, way easier to go “Vote Biden!”
They’re probably posting from Russia.
I wouldn’t bet on sure states anymore. We saw in 2016 how inaccurate polls were because Trump supporters just lie and hide.
because Trump supporters just lie and hide.
It’s amazing how I live in a very red county and yet all over these dating sites all I see are “moderate” or “centrist” or “other” I almost NEVER see someone openly admit they’re a “conservative.”
Illinois hasn’t voted R since 1988.
Local and state elections also matter. Watching Trump deal with a Dem Congress might even be amusing. But yeah, vote Biden because Trump already fucked up the Supreme Court enough.
Not a chance. If Trump wins, it’ll be by Democratic abstentions. With 33 Senate seats on the ballot, if he wins, Republicans will have control of Congress too.
Trump will rule by executive order and the supreme court will ok it in that scenario.
Where’s all the tankies that post “Genocide Joe” comments? Voting for Joe makes you complicit?
They always leave out trump policy. Avoiding voting for Biden or choosing to vote for trump does far worse.
Edit: found ‘em! Still trying to get people to not vote.
What is your definition of tankie?
Probably you, encouraging third party votes refusing to acknowledge it’s essentially a throwaway in a presidential election, or your commentary in this thread.
However, the ones like this that just come out and repeat, ad-nauseam, the don’t vote for Genocide Joe because you’re complicit in Israel’s Genocide or something.
https://lemmy.world/comment/10539253
https://lemmy.world/comment/10522919
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/comment/11150536
https://lemmy.world/comment/10516535
https://lemmy.world/comment/10503578
https://lemmy.ml/comment/11490160
https://lemmy.dbzer0.com/post/21621912/11055997
First two pages of a search for “Genocide Joe”, I skipped the hexbear ones because they’re a caricature of themselves and they can’t help it, I also skipped the verbose ones because TL;DR, nobody wants to read it.
Sounds like you don’t know the definition of tankie, so here you go:
Tankie is a pejorative label generally applied to authoritarian communists, especially those who support acts of repression by such regimes or their allies.
Hopefully you’re less ignorant now!
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Such strong argument
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You guys really like to use the word “tankie”, but you have no idea what it means do you?
If this horror continues until January, Gaza is already gone. I don’t even know what the fuck they would do if it stops today. He had the chance to be better and he fucked it up. I actually believed he would be better than this.
Obligatory yes you should still vote for Biden because Trump is obviously worse and undoubtedly the West Bank would be next. Not to mention project 2025. But “horrific” policy is not the best selling point, even when pitted against “even worse” policy. American politics is truly broken.
If this horror continues until January, Gaza is already gone.
As horrible as you think it is, it can get worse. A lot worse.
Time is running out for Hamas to torture and kill Palestinians. This is a good thing… Embrace it.
My dude we all know what Israel is doing. Take your hasbara and fuck off
Every four years the new voters learn how fucked up their country is, and how ignorant their countrymen are, and the smart ones learn they’re never going to get to vote for someone who isn’t going to continue America’s decades-long horrific foreign policy.
We could vote for someone else. We just have to do three very important things:
- Stop bickering amongst ourselves.
- Come together under a single unified stratagem even if we don’t all agree 100% on it. This can be substituted for coming under a unified banner.
- Continue pushing after the election has ended instead of the usual “Oop, election done. All good.” and then panic four years later.
ALL OF THESE, each individual step, are massive steps to expect and to take. Yet they are what would fix things. The biggest hurdle, in my opinion, is finding leaders people can rally behind. Because make no mistake: Anyone leading this would be in significant danger, and I think most people know that.
Continue pushing after the election has ended instead of the usual “Oop, election done. All good.” and then panic four years later.
Pushing what exactly? Is there some kind of button everyone else is aware of? Perhaps it’s a lever?
Sure is: Bottom-up reform and mass peaceful civil unrest in the form of large marches and demonstrations, to use a few magic button words. These do work. However, and I’m with our country’s leadership on this thought process: They don’t expect us to be able to pull it off.
The reason you don’t see working people truly represented in politics is because whole system was set up by rich people a long time ago and there was a good reason for that - they had the money and time to devote to it. The same is true today. Most working folks simply do not have the time and resources, or will, to find and support the people they want to see in power. Additionally, the modern oligarchs keep most occupied with entertainment and worrying about “the other” folks. As the rich consolidate wealth it becomes even more true. Now we can add espionage into the equation. Russia, China and Iran benefit by pouring money into destabilization tactics through psyops programs designed to destabilize the US. This is accomplished through massive social disinformation, like we often see here and on Fox.
🔺️
This!
( markdown ruined my ability to do a proper ascii up-arrow.
Humbug. : )
Unless you mean “because they emigrate”, then they’re not that smart. By not voting, they acquiesce to whatever becomes policy. They silence their own voice. Pretty damn stupid imo
Even if you vote you acquiesce to what’s in charge. It’s not like me voting for Biden will stop me being subject to Trump’s whims if he wins. It’s not like Scott Perry isn’t my fucking “representative.” That’s how government works: Whoever wins makes the rules regardless of how anyone voted, even if they didn’t.
It’s not like me voting for Biden will stop me being subject to Trump’s whims if he wins.
You voting for Biden helps Trump not win.
Yes, I am aware that elections are a thing.
Yay! Congratulations. Now vote for the last bad choice.
Like I haven’t been doing that for the last quarter century…
Thanks for doing your part.
Damn you sound like me at my job sometimes. What’s the point of it never ends? Oh right, it turns out I like to eat
Democrats dont have a better choice because they never hold their politicians accountable. If they did someone like Biden would have never been their nominee.
The rest of us choose not to participate in electoral politics because our voices do not matter to them, they only answer to the donor class.
So instead of helping keep democracy from crumbling to the ground… you’re just going to step aside because you don’t feel listened to?
Dude… you’re not the only one in the country. It’s virtually impossible for a sitting president to make even half of the country happy with their policy…
Maybe look up what Biden has done just over the past four years compared to the previous 4. Then read up on Project 2025. Then have some responsibly to those that live on your country that are quite possibly going to lose only their rights as human beings if they’re lucky.
This isn’t a fucking joke man. Vote and then spend the next four years actually doing the work it takes to make the change you want. I even give you a bit of advice…
It’ll take a lot more than whining on the internet. It’s going to be hard work. But if you do it right, 2028 could be something to look forward to.
Vote and then spend the next four years actually doing the work it takes to make the change you want
Take a wild guess how many decades I’ve heard versions of this
I don’t care how many decades you’ve heard it. I’m 52 years old and STILL doing my part to stop America from being overthrown by a traitor. What I care about is the work done to stop it from happening. Because It takes FAR more than whining online every four years.
And this happens like clockwork… EVERY FOUR YEARS.
Then everyone disappears and rerolls as victims of their own irresponsibility. Every four years.
So don’t tell me how many decades you’ve heard versions of this.
DO THE WORK.
Im sitting here in a heat dome induced 100 degree weather. The heat is killing my ferns.
Id say this slow walking of change has already killed us all.
I am doing the work by refusing to participate in elections that we have zero impact on. Neither right wing fascist represents me or the people in my circles.
So by not voting you’re admitting that you don’t give a shit about Palestine. Because it’s well known fact that Trump intents to do much worse and he’s not even trying to hide it. While Biden may not be doing enough, he’s certainly doing more than what will happen…
So since it’s not about Palestine, what exactly is your angle?
Biden hasnt done shit but get more of them killed. Hollow fucking plalitiudes while trying to save his ass isn’t ‘more than what will happen’
“both sidez” lol
Care to show us another example of how you’re clearly not paying attention?
The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing
Lately I’ve been partial to Yeats similar quote :
The best lack all conviction, while the worst are full of passionate intensity.
we have zero impact on.
Weird that suddenly you admit voting third party has zero chance
I am doing the work by refusing to do the work
Fuckin lazy ass
I put you at 16 or 17 so…. 1?
Democrats dont have a better choice because they never hold their politicians accountable.
Al Franken has entered the chat.
Rod Blagojevich has entered the chat
James Traficant has entered the chat
Bob Menendez has entered the chat
To be perfectly blunt, Franken’s forced departure was a political hit job.
None of them had funded and aided in genocide
Democrats never hold their own responsible.
Here’s a list.
No, not like that…
Low hanging fruit
Obvious tactics are obvious.
But you fail to see obvious things like you are being played in order for the oligarchy to stay in power.
I hate to tell ya but if you are American you have funded and aided in genocide.
By force, yes. Biden does it willingly without hesitation
You pay taxes and continue to live in the country willingly without hesitation. Leave if you have true conviction or shut the fuck up.
Non voters are the largest most powerless block of the population. Vote third party! Push these bums out!
Not when Trump is the alternative.
They will always have a Boogeyman for you to be afraid of
Biden is the boogeyman ‘they’ have you afraid of. Or maybe you are the ‘they’ trying ro reframe Biden as the boogeyman.
Trump isn’t a boogeyman, he’s an objectively selfish criminal grifter lunatic and theres decades of evidence and receipts to back it up.
They are both evil
Yeah great point. Every losing candidate to date has attempted a coup
You own party and the DOJ doesn’t consider it a coup. Maybe it’s because you are being played.
bOtH sIdEs
There.are no both sides to them. They are on the same side being paid by the same people for the same outcome
Provide the name of a current candidate that has a chance to best Trump in November. Provide evidence that they have a chance.
Just one name.
Anyone can beat trump if they get enough votes… So Cornell West is a name that satisfies your criteria.
Wrong. I said a candidate that current stand a chance. Provide a name.
Asked and answered. Sorry you don’t like the answer I guess?
Again, hes not Viable.
Try again.
I’m sorry the capitalists and fascists have prevented you from seeing potential futures outside of their control. Anyone is viable if they get enough votes.
Stein is in enough state ballots to get 270.
ROFL… so you honestly think Stein can win? Let’s take a look…
So there’s:
and….
Well, it seems no other news source even lays her as even relevant. So… no. I’m going to go with,
Name a VIABLE candidate that is currently running that can win.
I thought the word around here was polls can’t be trusted, it’s too early, and other bullshit.
With a 38% approval rating Biden isnt viablr
No one but you wants to vote for that Russian stooge.
You just want to trade a genocide in Palestine for a genocide in Ukraine AND a genocide in Palestine.
What are her poll numbers? Ignoring the fact that she’s a fucking Russian asset, she couldn’t beat Trump. Try again.
The way polls are going, Biden probably doesn’t stand a chance. So this point is moot.
The real answer to your question in all of the polling is “generic Democrat.”
So, just to be clear, no 3rd party candidate has any chance of beating Trump, correct?
Republicans don’t either, something that such statements should reflect. I wish there were a better nominee to vote for, but given that Republicans have benefitted from protests on issues that would be handled even worse by them, statements critical of current policy shouldn’t be made without the context of what would instead be done if Trump wins the presidential election.
Better vote Republican then!
They are just as much slime
Oh no! The fascists and capitalists that run society have given us the two worst choices to vote for! You better pick one of them to keep the system happy, and don’t consider voting for a third party…OR ELSE!
Defeat genocidejoe. Vote pirate. Or West.
ROFL… I was young and idealistic once as well. The difference is, I was afforded the time to be ignorant.
You aren’t.
Pay attention. A lot is at stake here.
Keep voting for the “lesser evil”! I’m sure your descendants will think you were super intelligent and well informed!
…. Said the genius that thinks NOT doing something will bring change.
Listen up,
Someone is going to get elected whether you like it or not. By now you should probably know what Trump will do to the LGBTQ+, to women, to anyone that stands against the Christian ideology. Which pretty much includes everyone you know I would imagine.
So go ahead and admit right now that you either don’t give a fuck at all about anyone that will be hurt if drum wins,
Or admit you’re here in bad faith and go away.
Actually believing in change for the better must include acting on that belief. I can’t say I want something better and then vote for genocidal garbage that we have now. So which of has is here in bad faith?
You’re getting genocidal garbage but doing nothing. And by now, it’s safe to say you know that. So aside from plainly admitting that you’re here to get Trump elected, how exactly are you going to reconcile knowing that
• Trump will be FAR worse to Palestine.
(Knowing this and still not voting to stop him from taking over America essentially is admitting you don’t give a shit about Palestine)
• Trump will scrap climate laws.
(Allowing him to get elected without even trying to stop it invalidates any argument you have in defense of protecting our environment)
(How do you not give a shit about this?)
• Trump will revoke protections to trans rights
And lastly, pay attention. To this one:
Do you honestly think that sitting on your hands in November is going to stop any of this? Of course you don’t. This late in the game….
You know EXACTLY what you’re doing. And so does everyone else.
This is why brainlet teens shouldn’t be allowed to vote
Well for better or worse they also tend to not vote. Which is why the parties ignore them anyway.
Difference is, in this case, they’re not voting on purpose! 🤣
Same energy as high school students staging a “school walkout” to protest…um…whatever that thing was, who cares, no school woo!
50 years of lesser evil has made genocide acceptable
You haven’t seen a history book before, have you??
Genocide has been accepted since before even the old testament when God himself decided to do it a few times. There is even specific passages about killing civilians including babies.
Not when Trump is the alternative.
Trump is the inevitable if you keep voting in genocidal trash like Biden that depresses voter turnout.
Accelerationists are far worse than MAGA. Because MAGA can claim ignorance.
You are threatening to purposely fuck up America unless your demands are heeded.
It’s fucking extortion.
America is already fucked up. The people who don’t believe so are deluded or benefiting from the situation.
So you’re an admitted troll here to disrupt an election… got it.
That’s all I needed.
I’ve made no such admission. You just don’t like the truth.
And what is the truth exactly? That you won’t cop to the fact that while you claim to care about genocide, you are entirely unwilling to stop it from getting exponentially worse?
You just don’t like what you accidentally admitted
Lets assume it is extortion.
Wouldnt it be irresponsible to not give them what the want with the stakes so high?
Never negotiate with anyone willing to sacrifice the freedoms and rights of others to get what they want.
Because it never stops.
There will always be a Boogeyman to fear, Trump is the current one. That’s how the oligarchy stays in power
And your solution to neoliberalism is to put a Nazi in the Oval Office?
Blue fascist, red Nazi, doesn’t matter. The quality of our lives does not improve.
Holy privilege Batman. Are trans people not included in your definition of “our lives”?
Did you just openly admit that you only care about straight white men?
Incredibly naive of you to assume I’m straight. The hollow platitudes coming from Democrats don’t protect trans either. And quit using marginalized people as human shields to defend shitty politics while insisting they vote for the people keeping them marginalized.
Trans here. You’re lying to me when you say I have nothing to lose from a Trump presidency, and you’re either lying to yourself or lying about being queer.
Then you’re advocating for more power for people who want to end your existence. Nice play, genius.
Quality of people’s lives in the West Bank sure is better under Biden. Zionist.
Adelson offered to pay to Trump what Biden is giving to her for free
everything is bad, everyone is a liar, everything is corrupt… Stop participating, disconnect. Right?
There are choices but voters are only concerned about being on the winning team.
This comment shows extreme historical ignorance
A historical evidence of democrats offering up a Boogeyman so they can hang onto power
Yeah you’re in no way full of bullshit
When was the last time you voted for a candidate and not against one?
Irrelevant, but Obama, twice. So most of the times I have voted. Any other irrelevant ways you wanna be wrong?
So you did it before and will do it after Trump?
Yes
Six day old account? Block!
Don’t block these people. Call them out!
If you think they are the same you are the most privileged of people.
Or dumbest. He could just be a run of mill moron.
So stupid. We have to change the voting system before a “third party” will make any difference. It will take years of lobbying, marching, fighting. Your lazy little protest vote will accomplish nothing. The two parties control the electoral college. No third party has a chance till the system changes. Plus, no current third party is REMOTELY close to being a contender. Last time it even had a chance was Bernie if he ran independent in 2016 after the DNC screwed him and he chose not to. Just voting third party when no third party is showing any sign of winning, in an election like this, is so irresponsible. It proves you have no understanding of government. It’s acting like a child taking their ball and going home.
I was around during Ross Perot’s independent run. If he didn’t win, no third party had a chance. Ross was extremely popular his first run and when he ran his little whiteboard presentations, a huge number of people watched because that was the most entertaining and relatable show on TV. He drew viewers from both parties. He got 19% of the popular vote and not a single electoral vote.
All due respect to Bernie, but he wouldn’t have touched Ross’s numbers just because you can’t have that kind of reach any more. Third party just can’t win.
More like making a fuss and saying they’re taking it home and then stomping off without it
Stop supporting Trump
Are comments like this your plan for getting millions of people to vote third party? Because unless you get several million to do that, they have zero chance of winning
If you want to make a meaningful change, you have to play the long game. Right now, we have to vote to mitigate even worse disasters. If I had a viable third party in the presidential race, I would vote for them.
But the key word is viable. We don’t have one. So while Biden isn’t my favorite, my vote is less for him and more against Trump.
If you want to have a chance to see a third party that more represents your political views, you’ll need to campaign for a third party in local, state, and congressional elections for probably decades until they become popular enough to become a viable contender for the presidential office.
But in this presidential election, advocating for voting third party only benefits one person and that’s someone who not only would allow a worse genocide but will actively harm people in your community. Voting third party because Biden is complicit makes your actions, as noble and idealistic as you think they are, actively create a worse situation and makes you just as complicit in the pain and suffering that Trump will cause.
So campaign and vote third party in local, state, and congressional elections and build that following to disrupt the two party system. But you’ve already lost the presidential election.
Genocide Joe died in 1953.
Maybe start looking for a better alternative instead of a worse one.
Where will you find that in this election?
Rumors are that America is a Democracy where more than two parties are allowed to run. Though many appear to disagree with that notion.
It is, and they are. They’ve also never gotten a single Electoral College vote in the history of our nation. They have, however, helped several Republicans get elected over the years.
Democrats blame the Greens.
Republicans blame Libertarians.
Instead of trying to blame alternatives for losing the election they could try to win over voters. But they don’t seem very interested in that. Israel is a lot more appealing. And hey, even if the Democrats lose they’ll have made israel very happy so they can be sure to get more AIPAC “donations” next elections.
This election isn’t about picking favorites. We are all fully aware that Trump will cause massive devastation to our nation as well as allow Putin, Xi, and Netanyahu to take what they want without resistance. Abstaining or voting third-party is refusing to stand in Trump’s way.
Biden is already giving away America to Netanyahu. If you are concerned about foreign actors I would suggest being concerned about AIPAC.
We agree that Biden isn’t great for Palestine, but he is absolutely better than Trump.
Trump noted, “They’ve got to finish what they started, and they’ve got to finish it fast, and we have to get on with life.”
“And the other thing is I hate, they put out tapes all the time. Every night, they’re releasing tapes of a building falling down. They shouldn’t be releasing tapes like that. They’re doing, that’s why they’re losing the PR war. They, Israel is absolutely losing the PR war,” Trump said.
https://www.cnn.com/2024/04/04/politics/trump-israel-comments/index.html
Trump also fully supports Israel’s expansion. He repealed the law preventing Israeli settlements on Palestinian land that Biden has since reinstated.
Netanyahu was so pleased, he named a settlement after him.
They also helped Bill Clinton get elected, so that’s nice.
They rarely work in Democrat’s favor. Jill Stein alone has siphoned off Democratic votes in the last five elections. Maybe that’s why Putin keeps publicizing her.
https://www.thirdway.org/memo/red-alert-putin-puppet-jill-stein-and-her-russia-friendly-agenda
Oh, totally. But that goofy big-eared Texan with the charts and “can ah finish” helped Clinton.
Maybe Democrats need to do something like that.
There’s some hope that RFK Jr. will take more votes from Trump than Biden, but there’s too much at stake in this election to be holding our breath.
Perot was a hell of a character though. He was all over Mad magazine during that election.
Jill Stein has not been a candidate for 5 elections.
Green candidates:
2020 - Howie Hawkins - 407,068 votes nationally. 0.26%
2016 - Jill Stein - 1,457,218 - 1.07%
2012 - Jill Stein - 469,627 - 0.36%
2008 - Cynthia McKinney - 161,797 - 0.12%
2004 - David Cobb - 119,859 - 0.10%
2000 - Ralph Nader - 2,882,955 - 2.74%
Dr Jill Stein got arrested protesting for Palestine. She’s most likely getting my vote unless RFK’s poll numbers continue surging and it seems like he could actually win.
There’s no way I’m letting this country make me believe my only choice is between two racist octogenarians. That is not democracy.
Jill Stein is great.Turns out she’s Putin’s puppet, siphoning votes from the left.She’s also failed to get a single Electoral College vote out of the 270 needed to win, in her five Presidential Election career. You honestly believe that she’ll somehow get half the nation this time around?
Also she’s not great, she’s a fucking Russian asset.
Wow. I legitimately didn’t know about that until you commented. Turns out you’re on the money. It makes sense. There’s no reason to keep running after failing so many times, other than to siphon off votes from the left.
https://www.thirdway.org/memo/red-alert-putin-puppet-jill-stein-and-her-russia-friendly-agenda
That kind of thinking is exactly what’s led us to picking “the lesser of two evils”. Also the RepubDems have put up the weakest candidates in modern history. If there was ever a time for a third party candidate to win the election it’d be this cycle. Have we ever seen a third party candidate this close to the election getting almost 20 percent in multiple states like RFK is?
I voted Green Party in the 2000 election. I’m trying to prevent others from making the mistake many of us made that year that directly resulted in Bush getting elected. That election led to the wildly disproportionate response to 9/11, resulting in almost one million deaths. I protested that travesty, and I’m a New Yorker.
The reason Democrats keep putting up moderates is because they keep losing. The mentality of “showing them a lesson” by abstaining is exactly what makes them move right to capture more of the active voters. If Democrats maintained control for an extended period, the primary would become the new election, and they’d be forced to move left to capture more of the active voters.
If you’re a New Yorker, then your 3rd party vote in 2000 did not result in, or contribute to, Bush “winning”. All NY electoral votes went to Gore. Personally I think that if you live in a solid blue state, then you have the luxury of being able to vote your conscience.
My vote personally? No. My advocacy? Possibly. The Floridian votes for Nader directly resulted in Bush’s win.
Since you understand how the Electoral College works, please tell me why you see any point in voting third-party when you know they’ve never earned a single Electoral vote, let alone the 270 needed to win an election?
I’m torn, in one respect that outcome kept me out of the military because I could see right through their bullshit… Wtf does Iraq have to do with 9/11?
But on the other hand, that decision kept me out of the military and I was planning on joining the Air Force after highschool in 2004… Now I’m just a completely worthless factory schmuck.
I should’ve joined the Navy. I’d be pretty well off now if I learned how to fuse fiber optics in the 90s.
Have we ever seen a third party candidate this close to the election getting almost 20 percent in multiple states like RFK is?
Theodore Roosevelt in 1912 got 27.4%, George Wallace (the segregationist) in 1968 got 13.5%
In other news: we have confirmed what we already know
Democracy is fake and this “representative” Republic represents nothing but the capitalists. I recommend voting for Chase Oliver, he may be a right winger but at least he’s willing to call out the Israeli genocide and occupation of Gaza.
Trump literally wants to execute Rashida Tlaib and Ilhan Omar.
It’s an illusion of choice, the only true choice is a protest vote against corruption. But I’m sure voting for Diet Fascism™ will work great in the long run.
The problem is getting enough people actually on board. You run the risk of introducing a spoiler. Unfortunately, this change needs to happen bottom up
yeah, he lost me years ago but i got no beef with someone for whom this year is a bridge too far.
Tbh if you’re pro Israel you should be voting for Trump. He’s the best chance we have at annexing and depopulating Gaza and the West Bank.
Not endorsing GOP but Pakistan looking at this article is not happy
although tbf they’re in south asia not the middle east
