It turns out that more technology in cars isn’t necessarily something customers want, and it’s not really improving their driving experience. We know my thoughts on the matter, but I’ll do my best to stay impartial on this latest survey from JD Power that shows most customers don’t appreciate technology in cars unless they can see a clear benefit to them.
JD Power’s 2024 U.S. Tech Experience Index Study evaluated over 81,000 drivers’ experience with “advanced vehicle technologies” in 2024 model year vehicles after 90 days of ownership, It turned out to be a pretty mixed bag when it came to what people liked using. There are a number of tech features that customers like using because they feels that it answers their needs, but at the same time there is a whole lot that don’t get used very often or are continually annoying, according to the survey.
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I’m ok with a decent amount of tech in a car. Like I’m fine being able to connect my phone to the car and have android auto take over the infotainment system.
But the HVAC stuff needs to be buttons I can access/control without looking or very minimal looking.
I don’t want/need my car to have a SIM card, or connect to wifi, and report what I’m doing. If they want to do that, then they can give me the car for free and I’ll drive it around letting them collect my driving habits.
Edit: Oh, and I’m sure as hell not paying some subscription fee on top of the price of the car.
Good news, lawmakers in the US finally started looking at this issue.
Bad news: probably will take years for change
There are numerous headlines like:
118th Congress on track to become one of the least productive in US history
So good luck with that.
The company I work at is tangentially related to car company data collection. And this week, all employees received an email that we were legally required to save all records newer than 2005 related to a specific car company’s onboard data collection service.
So it does seem like the investigation has already got a subpoena or smth.
General Motors
Is the car company involved, yes.
There’s activity at the state level too in multiple states. I heard something about California, then not a lot. Bunch of articles about Texas.
Spoiler from the future: it’s legal, and there’s nothing you can do about it.
As of 2022, Toyota still put physical buttons on their HVAC system and audio system.
I know because, against my advice, my wife bought a Toyota Rav4 Hybrid in 2022. I can’t tell her how to spend her money, but at least the car she got didn’t have some of this other bullshit.
Hey, at least she picked one of the most reliable cars on the market.
It’s a good car. I just wish she hadn’t decided to buy one in 2022. It’s bad enough to buy a new car now, it was worse then.
Out of curiosity, why didn’t you want her to buy that specific vehicle?
I didn’t think she should have bought any car. Her old car worked. It wasn’t in the best shape in the world, but it was fine. And 2022 was a terrible year for buying a car.
Oh, the COVID-19 shortages? Yeah, that’s a good point.
That’s how you do it. Drove my 99 Crown Vic until the wheel literally fell off. Had it put back on and did another 80k on it. Traded it in at the dealer 4 years later, in working order, simply because it cost 80 dollars a week in gas, and that was back in 2018.
Yep. I had a 2002 Civic that I was planning to drive into the ground, but an idiot mechanic accidentally left the oil cap off when he was fixing it and it eventually destroyed the engine. The amazing thing is it took a very long time to destroy it. We successfully drove my car back from Baltimore to where we live in Indiana and several two hour plus round trips after that before it conked out on me coming home one day back in 2019. So I bought a used 2016 Prius and I plan to drive that into the ground. I just don’t need a fancy new car. I’d like to get an EV only because I hate getting gas, especially in the winter, and if I never had to do it again, I’d be really happy. But I don’t want one enough to get rid of the car I have now.
I drove the Vic with essentially a liter of burnt Hershey chocolate syrup for 3 hours on the highway, and then daily’d it for another 5 days.
Teens are rough on cars, but it survived.
I have a 2008 tundra a coworker just bought a new one so I asked for a ride. It was nice to see under the enormous center display, the HVAC controls!
I love my subaru outback. It’s a great car. It does all the car things exceptionally well. It holds a lot of stuff. Snow, mud, fuck you it’s all pavement to me baybeee.
I fucking hate my Outback’s climate control, entertainment, map, and information screen. I understand newer models have improved slightly. It’s still awful. The only good thing about that fucking screen is that I can turn everything on from my phone. Literally every other function is awful to try to access and use while you’re driving.
Got a '24 outback late last year. For the most part I love it-it’s comfortable, holds my giant dogs and it’s way better to drive in bad weather than my previous car.
I’d read reports on subaru forums that infotainment was bad, so my expectations were low. But even basic stuff isn’t functional. It has gotten less responsive over the months (reminder: we’ve had it just barely a year). The screen has several seconds of lag with every touch, and sometimes controls just don’t work at all. I don’t like that we have to use it for temperature control, and android auto integration is clunky (though that may not be Subaru’s fault).
Add that to the horrifying data collection practices and it makes me question ever getting a Subaru again.
Is it possible to get some kind of firmware update that you may not have received?
kagis
This Reddit thread makes it sound like you need to manually do it or the dealer will do it as part of the regular maintenance. Not sure if this is specific to that model year.
https://old.reddit.com/r/Subaru_Outback/comments/18cjt00/software_update_december_2023/
Reminds me I need to update mine!! Did you have to take this in to the dealer to get it updated or did you do it yourself?
Dealer did that
What does the dealer charge?
I am not sure. It was part of my regular maintenance.
And
Does this help the PAINFULLY slow response in the screen?
Yes, it does! The lags are very short now, if there are any at all.
The people there are also complaining about the touchscreen instead of physical controls.
Hey good catch! I’ll try to ring my dealership to see if I can get that checked out during my next oil change visit.
Thanks
I just bought a forester a few months ago, and my 2 stipulations on the cars I was looking at were all-wheel drive because I live in snow country, and a car no newer than 2018 (IIRC) because that was the year car companies largely switched from manual controls to a 16-inch screen with everything, including climate control, accessed from an app.
When I was talking to the guy at the dealership I bought it from and mentioned how much I disliked the new screens, he outright said, “Yeah, a lot of people don’t like them.”
Similar complaint here. We were ready to replace our 2011 outback and decided it would make sense to get something at least a bit more modern. Loved our outback, and honestly would have bought another if it weren’t for that damn screen.
After getting a gander at that thing, we seemingly confused (or probably just disappointed) our salesman by insisting we wanted the most simple, stripped-down style console they had to offer. Apparently we’re not the most common customers, but i know I’m kinda weird so fair enough. After he went back inside to find out which models they had on the lot that might fit that description, the only one that had a “simple” console was the base model Forester. It was just not enough to transition over from our comfy 6-cyl beast that just had a 6-cd changer with a 1-inch-tall screen and an aux jack, but everything was operated by buttons. Even the rear view mirror had a clever backup camera integrated into it. Makes more sense that way, imo. It was everything we needed and only a smidge more.
I really wish we could have just bought a newer model of the exact same car feature-wise… That outback was a great car 🙂
2018 Impreza Base here. Manual ac controls (where, how fast, how hot), but the touchscreen infotainment is still AIDS. Several seconds from press to recognition. I need the screen to actually do stuff when I press it, not leave me guessing if I hit it right. If they can’t put a faster cpu, they need to have programmers that can optimise these units so they run responsively. There’s no excuse for that legendary input lag.
Good car though, other than that.
I’m ok with a decent amount of tech in a car. Like I’m fine being able to connect my phone to the car and have android auto take over the infotainment system.
This reminds me of my 2016 Honda Civic. It had just the right amount of tech.
When carplay works, it’s great. But mine constantly has issues connecting to phones. Both my wife’s iPhone, and my Android. Both are flagships that are a couple years old, so still very current and sufficient specs.
Meanwhile, my old aftermarket Bluetooth radio connects every time with no issue.
I do like the convenience of GPS and audio on the car tablet when it works. But honestly, it’s a distraction when it’s being fussy.
Exactly my experience.
Phone dash mount all the way!
But the HVAC stuff needs to be buttons I can access/control without looking or very minimal looking.
100% this. I shouldn’t have to click through 2 menus on a touchscreen to change a basic environmental control. Give me a damn knob, so if I want to change something I can reach my hand over and turn 2 clicks without taking my eyes off the road.
I have a 2023 Mazda CX-5 and it has the perfect amount of tech for me. The headunit isn’t touch screen, but you get used to the control knob after about a day and eventually it just feels second-nature. Also, all of the hvac controls are physical knobs and buttons, which is amazing.
I stopped using Android Auto on my infotainment system. I thought it was just me but when I’m using navigation (Google maps or wyze), the second I lose service for any reason, it completely exits out and cancels my navigation. I found that if I use it in my phone, it doesn’t have that issue.
2020 Subaru Forester, but friends with other cars (VW, Honda) mentioned the same issue. Not sure if this has been fixes in recent Android Auto updates or in newer cars, but I’m not going to chance it anymore.
I’ve only experienced real issues when out of network coverage for a long time.
I make sure I download the areas I’ll visit especially if the network coverage is spotty.
My Ford sync 3 amd my old Tundra with a Kenwood AA radio bot work fine out of service as long as I have the maps downloaded
If they want to do that, then they can give me the car for free and I’ll drive it around letting them collect my driving habits.
I mean, that’s kind of what they’re doing in that having another revenue stream will reduce the car price relative to what would have been the case if they couldn’t do so.
If some people want to make that trade, I think that they should have the option to do so.
I don’t personally want to make that trade myself, though.
I disagree, most of these subscriptions options are all built in and “enabled” if bought. There ain’t no car manufacturers looking to reduce their car prices for us. It’s profit above everything
Peak technology enjoyment in a car includes
- multiple zone ac
- heated/ventilated seats
- real buttons and not FUCKING CAPACITIVE TOUCH
- android auto/apple car play
There’s some other minor tech that’s fairly nice that I haven’t seen in cheaper cars. Lights under the door to light up the ground on dark nights for when you’re getting out. Just solid utilitarian tech right there.
My single piece of favorite car tech is the cruise control that follows the cars ahead of you and brakes when necessary. I barely use my feet for driving anymore.
I am entirely the opposite. I think cruise just makes driving less engaging and more boring.
Ideally I want everything to be manual, I even control every individual wiper swipe a lot of times if I am just driving along on a highway. Less boring, more engaging. Means I am more attentative on the road.
I do however understand I am a minority.
Fine for short trips, less fun on hours+ long drives. It’s nice having options!
I don’t know what is considered a long trip for you but to me it’s 6 hours plus, which I deal with no problems. I just think it makes driving more boring when there’s less stuff to be in control of.
I live far away from my family and my wifes family so we drive a lot of 6-12 hour drives and I always drive the full stint. Doesn’t bother me but I am not everyone.
There are far more important things than feeling bored when you’re transporting irreplaceable human beings.
Boredom leads to poor focus and tiredness and is highly relevant for safely manning a vehicle
Ah yea adaptive cruise control with lane assist is my jam.
I’ve been driving spoiled with Lane Keep Assist. I’d like to continue to keep that as a thing in all cars.
Also, I used a Ford Escape as a rental this weekend, and holy shit I hate having to wait for the startup animation to complete so I can finally mess with the A/C and have it going on full blast after sitting in the hot sun all day. My Santa Cruz has actual buttons for all the climate control stuff and I had no idea I’d miss it so much until now.
Also, adaptive cruise control
I’m fine with adaptive cruise, however, I would also like to be able to turn it off quickly and easily if the situation calls for it.
Tapping the brakes has immediately turned off cruise control in every vehicle I’ve ever driven.
I was referring specifically to the adaptive part, and going back to dumb cruise. I wasn’t clear, my apologies.
Can you explain a scenario where that would be necessary? Given that adaptive cruise slows you down below your target speed to follow traffic all I can see that doing is either nothing on an open road, or accelerating you into the vehicle in front of you.
I use it all the time on the highway.
Isn’t it just a press of a button to turn it off?
I replied to another comment on this as well. I wasn’t very clear with what I meant, my apologies. I was referring to turning the adaptive part off, and going back to just regular old cruise control.
Lane keep assist is annoying AF when you live in a place where you’re required by law to cross the double yellow when going around bicycles. You get in a steering wheel fight with the car until you find the menu to temporarily disable it. After next stop-start cycle mid-errand, it’s on again by default thanks to US law.
I mean just using your turn signal turns it off in most cars…
Maybe do that?
Confusing unnecessary signaling that others could misinterpret when you don’t intend on turning.
Did you even take Driver’s Ed?
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I have to say I prefer launching climate control from my phone before I ever get in the car. And also I’d rather have the cabin try to keep a temperature automatically instead of forcing me to dick with the temp of the blowing air.
I’d rather just have a standard size bank up front, like, 3DIN, and choose my own “car computer”. Have security locking support, guarantee certain power supply, impact, and temperature conditions. And then open up the “car console” market.
And let me be able to upgrade it five or ten years down the road.
If they want to provide a standard first-party center panel offering, fine. But computers and phones have a shorter life than do cars, and I don’t want to be locked into ancient or badly-chosen controls and computers. This “car is a big cell phone” thing is just godawful from a consumer standpoint.
That would be amazing. I miss the days of swapping my head for one I want. Blaupunkt MiniDisc here we go!
After having used both Android Auto and Apple Car Play.
I really prefer having a good phone mount, that puts my phone in a glance-able place near the wheel.
That, and quality Bluetooth Audio.Nobody is mentioning heads-up displays? That’s peak tech. The info is right there without having to move your eyes off the road.
because barely anyone even knows about HUDs, since there are barely any vehicles in the “won’t cost you both kidneys” price segment with HUDs in them…
…but yes, they really should be in every car. it’s just a no-brainer for safety, for the exact reason you said: simply having your speed right in your field of view alone is worth it!
I feel like a HUD is only in expensive cars because it’s a very useful feature people actually want.
- rear camera.
How about the unnecessary tech that just shouldn’t be allowed.
- Doors that are not primarily manual to open or unlock.
- Touchscreen of any type. I’m okay with capacitive touch buttons but they should be in a fixed location and physically distinguishable from other surfaces.
- Electronic e-brake
- Replacement of any of the main driving functions with anything that is not physical and tactile (turn signals, windshield wipers, headlights)
At least in the US I feel like technology has leapfrogged regulation.
Touchscreen of any type
I think a touchscreen is fine as long as real buttons exist for things a driver might want to manipulate while driving. My Outlander has a fairly large touchscreen that offers media and navigation control, but everything else (climate, drive modes, cruise control/drive assists, windows, locks, etc) is real buttons and dials, and there are also an extra set of basic media controls on physical buttons as well (volume, next/prev track, tuning).
I’m quite happy with that. And the passenger still gets all the touchscreen bells and whistles if they want to explore the map or set up playlists or whatever.
Electronic doors can just fuck right off… Just another thing to break… I’d even go so far to say motorized windows these are great until the motor dies and you can’t shut the window.
I’ve seen waaay more manual handles break than electric windows…but that might be somewhat biased by the sheer age of most of the cars with manual windows…still, rarely ever even heard of an electric one breaking…is that common where you live?
Electronic e-brake
I hate electronic e-brakes. How am I supposed to impress women with handbrake turns without a hand brake?
I just use it for parking. And I like having a physical parking brake. I don’t trust the function of it when it’s just a button.
i absolutely love it when it’s paired with manual transmission and an auto-break function:
when you stop, for example at a red light, and press the break while standing still for a bit, it goes into auto-break mode.
when you then release the clutch while in gear (neutral gets ignored), it automatically releases the hand break, so you can perform a hand break assisted start from standstill without having to touch the actual hand break!
this is excellent when you’ve stopped at an incline, and generally really useful!
but i get the skepticism…i was extremely skeptical at first too, but you get used to it quickly and then it feels weird when it’s missing or turned off in another car… there’s just no reason not to use this feature it’s simply great!
My car has that and a manual handbrake and, yes, it is quite nice.
My current ride is peak technology imho:
- Crank windows
- Cold, manually adjustable seats
- 5 speed transmission
- Knobs and levers, minimal buttons
- MSRP under $10k–
Based on this MKBHD/Auto Zone video the way to get real buttons and sensible features is to buy a minivan.
I’d say that that kind of imposes a size restriction, but honestly, the crossovers that everyone seems to buy are about the same size as those these days anyway.
Can’t say that I would buy a minivan, because I hate them.
But my car (Hyundai Azera) has all physical AC buttons and it’s great. But it shows the temp on the touchscreen which is unfortunately kinda fundamental to this car from what I’ve found.
One of the reasons I mentioned android auto, I just have a AAwireless adapter right now, had a Motorola M1 which died. But that is basically all I need other than a charger which I have a 100w type c for that.
Sorry kinda rambled for a bit
- lane assist
- adaptive cruise
Comfortable seats
A suspension that is comfortable over bumps, but not floaty or bouncy and slightly firm under compression.
You’d like the 2020+ Q50 then
We need some serious federal regulation against bullshit in vehicles.
Every function that is normal to use while in motion needs a physical button.
Absolutely no fucking spyware reporting back to the manufacturer.
I don’t want to ban it. Some people apparently want it (well, or at least the price reduction that comes with the auto companies having a new revenue source). I’m hesitant to try to impose my preferences on them.
I just want an option to pay regular price for a car myself and not have everything I do be data-mined. If it costs $N to pay your costs and make your profit, just charge me $N. I just want to be the customer in the relationship, not the product.
They operated just fine like that for decades. I don’t see a need for that to change.
If the backdoor exists, it will be abused.
Also, that relies wholely on trusting the manufacturers to not mine your data when they have the ability to collect it.
It beggars belief that people still make the argument you responded to after the whole Clownstrike debacle.
If the way you want the market to work is “everyone does things the way I want” rather than “let everyone choose what they want”, the chance that the single route that is taken is not what you want is considerably greater.
Choice is good.
you don’t have a choice when it comes to data collection:
if it’s allowed literally every manufacturer WILL do it!
see: the exact situation we’re currently in!!
so, no, you don’t have a choice (other than buying an older model).
this isn’t how “the market” does anything.
there’s no downside to outlawing spyware in cars.
and it hasn’t made anything cheaper, what the hell kind of cope is that??
A reasonable opinion on lemmy? Prepare for the downvotes, it’s a pitchfork circlejerk here!
It’s funny, because there actually is 0 price reduction in most cases.
It is literally even more expensive cars and the corporations double dipping to make extra profit.
Except for maybe some lesser-known Chinese brands that I have no point of reference for, I don’t believe there is a single corporation that has made their “smart” cars with tracking on-par or cheaper than their counterparts.
Most of the bullshit exists because of federal regulations requirements that they ran away with. Even backup cameras (which are arguably useful) because of shape/size/economy restrictions causing rear windows to be less easy to see out of.
No shape of window will let you see a toddler directly behind your car.
Backup camera was mandated because of stronger pillar requirements to increase protection in rollovers, which was mandated because of an increase in rollover crashes, which was caused by an increase in SUV and Truck sales, which was caused by an increase in consumer demand for trucks and SUVs, which was caused by an increase in marketing for Trucks and SUVs which was caused by decrease in (relative) profit margin on sedans/coupes/wagons which was caused by the light truck loophole in CAFE standards, which was put in by manufacturers in the first place.
So I blame the corporations, their lobbyists, and the payroll politicians for it.
Backup cams are great though, quit complaining.
give me buttons and dials, not touch screens and ai. I want to drive, not check social media. I’ll be keeping my 2009 until the engine locks up.
It’s not perfect, but the new (2019+) mazda system is very nice. It’s all controlled by buttons and dials, zero requirement to ever touch a screen. It all feels quite thoughtfully done, especially when you compare it to fords or teslas with a big dumb laggy iPad stuck to the dash.
Yep. I’m hoping my current car holds out until this 'smartphone on wheels" trend reverses.
‘smartphone on wheels’*
*Apple CarPlay and Android Auto not supported.
Honestly that’s all I want out of the center screen.
I like my 2018 Outbacks layout. Physical controls for AC, knob for volume, and a reasonable touch screen. The gauge cluster has a small screen in the center that shows me some basic info I’d like to see like tire pressure, MPG, etc.
I’m in this scenario, too.
When I needed a new car in 2019 I somehow found a six speed manual Crosstrek that has all physical buttons for climate and radio/volume that also has a backup cam and a touchscreen for CarPlay/Android Auto.
It’s perfect.
I’m pretty happy with where my car is at. It’s got this cool thing where you plug a cord in, and the sound comes through the speakers. Then it displays right on my phones screen, which I put under the speedometer so I can glance at it without turning my head
It’s like magic, my car does the car stuff and my phone does the phone stuff, and if I wanted a closer relationship between the two I could buy a cheap off the shelf component that plugs into the standardized ports (no disassembly required). No updates, my car can’t snitch on me and the only subscription is satellite radio
Honestly I can’t think of anything I’m missing out on. I don’t have a backup camera or blindspots warnings, but I’ve never used them or needed them. Smarter cruise control sounds worthwhile, but until I can safely take my eyes off the road I’m more worried about it making me complacent.
As far as entertainment, or even navigation? I’ve never heard someone say “man, my phone experience is terrible, I wish it was more like my car”
At this point, I’m more inclined to convert my car to electric than to buy a more modern one
All I need is Bluetooth in the audio system and a place to hang my phone. Beyond that, things that don’t make my car move or my body comfortable can go to hell.
That’s the biggest (and dumbest) reason I’m looking forward to my next car. So I can play music seamlessly through Bluetooth.
I have a 2016 with Bluetooth but it literally will only let me use it for calls/texts.
Edit: Thanks for the suggestions, but I do have a Bluetooth receiver. It’s just cheap and a pain. I have to power it on separately, occasionally re-pair my phone, and the chords get worn out and need replaced every so often.
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Does your car have an AUX port by chance? Mine was the same with the Bluetooth limited to calls, but with a $20 adapter on Amazon I converted my unused AUX port to Bluetooth audio. Aside from that ONE thing I love my car and am thrilled to have this solved, especially so cheaply.
Meanwhile I am in my 91 with a single DIN cheap aftermarket stereo enjoying Bluetooth
See if your car is on the website niftycity you might be able to get a piggyback adapter from them to run Android Auto & Apple Carplay through your OEM setup.
They no doubt sell rebranded versions of the same stuff you can find on AliExpress but they do the hard parts of working out all the bits to make it all nicely integrated with the OEM setup rather than having to research which obscure cables you need to buy.
A build-in gps is also pretty nice
Every single one I saw has been either slow, have terrible maps, missing maps, outdated maps, or most likely, all of the above. Doesn’t hold a candle to open maps, waze, or gmaps on a phone
Tesla uses the data from Google maps with their own route planning (for charging) and Volvo/Polestar uses straight up Google maps.
Volvo/Polestar uses straight up Google maps.
All cars that use Android Automotive with Google Services use Google Maps. A bunch of car manufacturers are either migrating over to it or already use it, including Volvo, Polestar, Chevy, Cadillac, GMC, Buick, and a few others
Some manufacturers are instead using Android Automotive without Google services, like Rivian and Porsche. I think this is because it doesn’t need a licensing fee to be paid to Google, as the actual OS without any of the Google stuff is open-source.
Cool, I only have seen Volvo and Polestar here in Europe. I hope it gets wider adoption.
Have it pull the map app from your smartphone. Up to date, personalized, knows your schedule.
It’s nice as a backup. My car has built in GPS, and it’s actually really good with navigation, the directions are better (in terms of clarity) than my phone. I still use my phone for 99.9% of my GPS, since the maps are updated more often (and for free!), the interface is easier to use, there are more options for intermediate stops, construction and road obstruction warnings, and I can queue up my directions before I get into the car.
And rear parking sensors. I don’t want a fancy camera+screen system, but simply an ultrasonic sensor which beeps if you’re going to hit something
I do like my cameras, but I have a truck where they are wildly helpful. In a small car, I don’t value them as much.
I don’t hate tech in my car.
I hate unnecessary, poorly designed tech in my car.
Current tech design unnecessarily complicates and obscures what should be simple and easily accessible functions. That’s more than just irritating, it’s dangerous.
BRING BACK THE FUCKING BUTTONS HOLY SHIT
Yeah, let me keep my eyes on the road. I’m not a huge fan of mini coops, but the dash setup of the ones I’ve driven are my favorite. They’ve got unique toggles and knobs, made it easy for me to memorize functions without having to give it any thought
I guess I’ll be alone in saying I don’t want a bmw cockpit with a button for every feature of the vehicle.
I like the rocking, turning console selection wheel Audi does, and I like the two wheels that also click forward and back on the steering wheel that Tesla does (and also gear stalks with buttons on the end). The only other thing that should maybe be a knob or button is climate temp or blower speed, but that is nicer when it’s adaptive like a thermostat.
Minimal interface for me please, just don’t force me to touch navigate the touch screen while I’m driving.
No one hates the tech in their cars, ABS is universally loved. What people hate is tech working not in tandem but against them
As a driver, all I really want is good music, good navigation, and easy access to all my controls.
I don’t want to have to go into submenus to change my temp settings, or open the trunk.
IMO, a vehicle should be a fairly simple tool to operate. All of the nuances with driving should be how you use those controls to get to where you’re going. Even with the (frankly, impressive) self driving tech we currently have, I still don’t think it’s ready to replace a driver at the wheel; bluntly, that’s the only tech I really want in a car.
Automatic options for fairly standard functions, such as turning on your headlights at night, shutting off the highbeams when there’s oncoming vehicles, and even automatic windshield wipers, can make things easier. Which I appreciate. I can override all of these systems, which is good. The advent of climate controls rather than “how hot” and “how cold” you want your blower to be and at what speed, is also nice. Even driving assist, like automatic lane keeping and adaptive cruise control is a nice-to-have. But these are all augmentations of systems and they’re pretty transparent to the driver. If you don’t want to use them, you can easily ignore or override the systems and do it yourself.
What I don’t appreciate is all the infotainment garbage. I can literally play games on the touch screen of my partners 2019 accord. I tried it out and bluntly, it’s not comfortable, it only works when the car isn’t moving, and I’m not going to sit in my car to play games. That’s dumb. I kind of get it for EVs for when they’re charging, but honestly, I can have a better experience on my phone/tablet.
I don’t need weather, I don’t need a touch screen, and I don’t need whatever garbage GPS system you were paid to sell with the car.
Give me Android auto/some carplay, with maybe FM as a backup in case of emergency, and I’m good. My phone already has data, my car doesn’t need LTE. Give me buttons to press for all climate and driving functions and I’m a happy person.
I don’t want to navigate some menu to try to turn on my defogger. Fuck off.
Driving tech should be transparent to anyone who doesn’t give a shit, and just wants to drive down the road.
My phone already has data, my car doesn’t need LTE.
Actually that’s one arena of technology that should have taken a different course. Auto manufacturers should have an upgradable modem module that you can swap out with the latest “G” (as the modules are already self-contained) and the car should have antennae that cover as wide swath of the RF spectrum as possible. Cars are Faraday Cages. Cellular reception on a tiny little rectangle phone in your center console won’t ever be as good as a dedicated modem and antenna. Also, the car’s dedicated modem can transmit at higher power levels (up to 3 watts, vs a couple hundred milliwatts) so you’ll get cellular reception in places your phone will just say no service. It also moves the higher-powered RF outside the car with the Faraday Cage shielding the human, for those that are concerned about such things. (Also, also, phones have to limit their total RF output to the sum of the current transmission rate of the radios, so when you’re doing Bluetooth + cellular, the cellular modem won’t be allowed to transmit at its maximum power level, further reducing range.)
Bonus points, there has literally been a Bluetooth SIM profile in existence for decades, although very few car modem have ever been designed to support it. This means, if this was implemented as standard, when the phone pairs with the car, the car inherits the cellular account of the phone while the car is turned on. So you’re not paying for two cell bills, you get better reception, same phone number, better data speeds, better voice calling, etc. The phone also has supremely better battery life because it doesn’t have to be constantly screaming at cell towers.
Of course, automakers and cell carriers would never implement these things that already exist because they’d eat into their precious profit margins.
Personally, I don’t want my car to have any connectivity options because car makers have already proven they are just going to abuse it to sell your data.
At most, they’re very bad Faraday cages.
The vast majority of LTE bands are below 2600mhz, around 10 cm wavelength, which usually doesn’t have any issue penetrating glass, and suffers very little degradation from the metal in the body of the car.
Aluminum materials, which are not uncommon for body panels, and other automotive components due to its light weight and relatively low cost, is non-ferrous and won’t impact signal strength any more than glass will…
The Iron/steel in the vehicle, usually in the frame/engine, are the primary issues with regards to signal blocking. That’s what microwaves make their Faraday cage from for good reason.
Many wireless providers also have sub 1ghz channels which are harder to block, they’re generally slower for bandwidth, but that’s another matter entirely.
Most of the dashboard is made of plastics and other non-ferrous materials, but it’s littered with devices, supports, and wires that can impact signal integrity. These are usually fairly sparce and don’t generate a lot of interference. Since the dashboard is directly adjacent to the windshield and driver/passenger windows, signal is more or less unimpeded in the desirable directions (horizontal, mainly). Unless you’re putting your phone on the floor of your vehicle, you’re generally okay for signal, as it passes through the majority of the dashboard, around components in the dashboard, and through the glass relatively unimpeded.
The exception to this is that some manufacturers seem to think it’s a good idea to put materials in their safety glass that impede RF. God knows why. It might be a biproduct of a coating that is there for a different reason, but it’s not great. That’s when you need a fairly simple LTE repeater.
Which brings me to my point. You can forego the complex and unsupported LTE SIM over Bluetooth stuff by simply putting a relatively low power LTE repeater from a good signal location, such as the roof of the vehicle, to a bad signal location, such as the middle of the cabin it can literally be built into the overhead cabin light. Resolving the issues you’ve stated, without providing any data access to the vehicle itself. Such an add-on would be a small increase in cost, as such units can retail anywhere from a few hundred to thousands of dollars, but as that cost would replace the built in modem most people never wanted to begin with, the addition may actually make the whole car cheaper… With little more than Apple carplay/Android auto, to replace all the functionality they’ll lose by removing the cars data connection.
It’s a very silly and pointless argument overall, because vehicle manufacturers will not be removing the LTE modems from their vehicles, since that allows them to remotely gather your data, which they can sell. That increases profits and that’s what they care about. So they’re never going to listen to us regardless… As long as someone is buying their wiretap vehicles and basically handing them free money in the form of your personal data, they’re going to keep doing it.
Car companies don’t care, they think the tech gives them an excuse to charge more even though a lot of the tech is actually cheaper (a single touch screen instead of all kinds of knobs and buttons) plus it’s a way for them to collect more of your data to sell. Before buying my next vehicle, I want to make sure I can easily disable its internet functionality through hardware so that it doesn’t phone home.
They can charge SUBSCRIPTIONS this way too
Data privacy is a concern of mine.
Car makers see technology as a data mining opportunity to force us to use their shitty infotainment systems to track our every move and interest, and then milk us with subscriptions.
I don’t like tech in cars either… I like EVs bit the thought of dealing with that center screen for everything is just lame. Another thing that sucks are the fobs… Who asked for those? If I want to go swimming I now have to take apart a little plastic thing and stick it in my car
Another thing that sucks are the fobs…
I really don’t like those either. I guess it’s okay to give people the option, I know that it’s handy to unlock the car from a distance if you’re loading kids or pets in the car. But give me a simple key/transponder if I just want to have a key on a keychain.
Also, I keep seeing more reports about those wireless unlock and remote start fobs being relatively easy to spoof, and the whole system seems comically insecure and fragile.
I can’t believe how much more money such a faulty feature costs too.
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That’s true, but then you see how easy it is to open up a car with a traditional lock using one of those shims.
then you see how easy it is to open up a car with a traditional lock using one of those shims
True. As far as I can tell, most competent thieves can get in most cars, and it’s trivially easy to break the window out anyway with small tools. I’m not even sure of car alarms deter thieves anymore. The real deterrence is the interlock that prevents them from taking anymore than your stereo or loose change, and the interlock/transponder doesn’t require a fob.
Most cars won’t lock with the key fob inside them, and no one in the driver seat. So you might be leaving your car unlocked. That being said, the fobs are gasketed and water resistant, they should be able to handle a swim, no problem, but if you’re concerned, a ziploc baggie should do the trick.
I’d say the benefit of the fob outweighs the “cost”. Take it from someone who has had access to all 3 generations of entry tech (key, fob, keyless) at the same time, you’ll really miss it when you don’t have it.
Summary: Computerized touch screens and ‘smart’ features with poorly thought-out UI and UX are a solution in search of a problem.
Start with what directly benefits the user and driving experience.
Go from there.
“What directly benefits the user?”
“Heated seats.”
“Okay, start charging a subscription fee for that.”
I know it’s not what you meant, but it’s what I immediately thought of.
Why can’t some manufacturers just have a phone cradle instead with the backup camera on a screen in the rear view mirror? I hate waiting for my car to boot up just to put on some music.
I drive an EV for work, any my biggest gripe is the touchscreen. What is wrong with buttons. Why must everything be hidden behind a menu I have to navigate on a touchscreen. It feels less safe, frankly. In my own car I have muscle memory for each button and can do things like skip songs or adjust the AC without looking away from the road… But in the EV I can’t.
Why? Because it’s a looot cheaper to produce.
Mhmm. Fewer moving pieces, fewer under warranty repairs. Also simplifies production, just need to screw in a screen.
And you only need to produce one screen and just re-skin the UI for your other product lines
And charge people for over the air software unlocking of features that are already part of the car but they “didn’t pay for” when they bought it.
I wish they’d do exactly what they’re doing now, but add a series of generic physical buttons along the bottom that can be remapped as quick buttons that either the OEM or end user can map to specific features.
E.g. A/C controls, skipping songs, opening apps or whatever.
My car does it pretty well. It’s got a touch screen, but it also has a knob and two buttons that I can use instead of the touch screen.
Also there’s no need to design a new user experience for each model of car - things like designing buttons and a button layout that fits in with the overall interior design of the car. Just use a touchscreen and reskin the same UI.
What does being an EV have to do with anything? ICE cars are exactly the same.
I totally agree with you though. Tech and UI in modern cars is pretty awful.
I would say eve typically do have more controls on touchscreens vs buttons. Now this issue is mainly observed in Teslas more than any other car, but Teslas are the most popular ev so ya it’s definitely more of a problem on evs.
It’s not about the drivers, it’s about cheaper costs and normalizing subscription services for your vehicle.
It’s a nice, standardised way with which to lock you out of features and force you to engage with their out-of-vehicle services.
