- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmit.online
- cross-posted to:
- worldnews@lemmit.online
Summary
Russian official Dmitry Medvedev, a close ally of Vladimir Putin, suggested Donald Trump’s election victory may benefit Russia’s interests in Ukraine, citing Trump’s reluctance to fund “idiotic allies” and “voracious international organizations.”
Although Medvedev stopped short of celebrating, he hinted Trump’s aversion to foreign spending could weaken U.S. support for Ukraine.
Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky cautiously congratulated Trump, recalling their recent discussion on U.S.-Ukraine cooperation.
Kremlin spokesperson Dmitry Peskov maintained a guarded tone, noting the U.S. remains an “unfriendly country” involved in the Ukraine conflict.
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Mission accomplished.
The only person you should blame is Harris and her party. She made the same mistake Clinton did by trying to be as conservative as possible, so nobody on the left voted for her.
Nobody on the left votes for her so the far right wins again. Real galaxy brain move there.
Nobody ever accused voters of being smart. That said, Harris lost a lot of Biden’s 2020 voters, so this is the exact good time to go super critical on her campaign.
And nobody ever accused liberals of even appearing to give a fuck about the working man (literally). The whole Bernie factor was missing, the only Democrat who could actually rally that population – because he cared about their issues – just to be hit with the “Bernie Bro” cudgel. “Wait he appeals to men? Must be a sexist!”
A left that doesn’t care about class isn’t leftist. Worse, they’re not even realising that that’s why people go for other options because while the right doesn’t care about the proletariat either, at least they pretend to. The liberals created Trump.
A lot of good sense here. Democrats have been so focused on race and sex that they lost the whole working class. I don’t think they realize that people don’t think of themselves as demographics. Representation is a thing, but they assume far too much about it: “Let’s run a black woman - we’ll get all the black AND woman votes! And she’s Asian, too!” Meanwhile they are doing little for the working class issues that affect these voters most. Kamala’s program of tax break handouts was a dead giveaway: Democrats think the system is fine - but they’d like to buy your vote this year. People want structural change to the system, not a new line item on their tax return. Trump’s tariffs, ill-advised as they are, show a willingness to make deep structural change to the macroeconomics that have brought us here. While democrats clutch their pearls over a 5% drop to GDP, working class voters are like “we’re already losing big time - let’s roll the dice.”
Tax break handouts are a slap in the face of the working poor: What good is a tax break when you don’t earn enough to pay taxes, or live a dignified life, in the first place?
It’s surprisingly few people who pay no taxes. The standard exemption is only $13,850.
But your point still stands. Poor people aren’t going to hold on til the end of the year for a lousy $300 credit.
Representation is a thing, but they assume far too much about it: “Let’s run a black woman - we’ll get all the black AND woman votes! And she’s Asian, too!” Meanwhile they are doing little for the working class issues that affect these voters most.
Right on the nose. Here’s a perfect example of this, which I find incredibly demeaning toward the supposed demographic they’re trying to court. It just shows how out of touch the party is.
https://www.npr.org/2024/10/13/nx-s1-5151968/harris-weed-crypto
working class voters are like “we’re already losing big time - let’s roll the dice.”
AGAIN. Yup. Riding high on Obama’s economy (who himself was blamed for Bush’s) and now Biden receiving the blame for Trump’s, the working class folk yearn for what they used to have - not realizing where it came from or how to get it back.
I’m sick of this denial of voters culpability for their own votes. You are responsible for who you vote for and the outcomes. People voted for this and they are fundamentally responsible. Right now, folks just need to focus on making their local communities robust against the oncoming disasters.
They are responsible for their own votes but if the politicians aren’t able to sell their ideas then the blame is also on them.
I blame Brexit on those that voted leave but I also blame the remain campaign for sleepwalking into the Brexit referendum and not doing enough to counter the leave campaign’s lies.
I think Remain spent too long trying to counter Leaver lies. Leave just sprayed them out, not caring. Remain should have been making the case for the EU. (Though industrial scale lying is a news regulation issue. It not balance to give both sides equal time when one side is bullshiting.)
I’m sick of people blaming voters when they live in a State without democracy
Donald Trump won the popular vote in an election with record setting voter turnout. Lack of democracy from the electoral college or voter suppression didn’t do this. People voting for Trump did.
Voter turnout was down many millions
Turnout seems to have been 158,481,688 (62.8%) in 2020 and although not yet tallied for 2024 the estimates are 138,437,782 counted so far. Can we just wait until the counts are done before making statements?
This is the most damning rebuke of Democrats and their leaders. Trump’s tactics worked.
Turnout is down by at least 10 million from 2020.
I’m sick of this denial of politician’s culpability for their policies. That said yes community organising is always a good idea, maybe the American left, doing that, will actually finally figure out why they’re not appealing to people who they should be appealing to. A left that isn’t popular with the lower classes is doing something wrong, and I’m not saying stop giving a fuck about racism etc, I’m saying start giving a fuck about class.
There’s almost zero representation for the left in the Democratic party, so it’s not accurate to refer to the party as the left. Both of these parties are catering to the right, but one seems confused about why they keep losing to the party who isn’t afraid to admit that they’re just catering to the right.
I mean sure but they’re commonly referred to in US politics as left, and also consider themselves to be on the left.
Not my fault y’all’s overton window is fucked.
A left that isn’t popular with the lower classes is doing something wrong
There are always lumpen elements that are too bought-in to serving the ruling class to be capable of class consciousness, and the US system has made sure that they have proliferated.
Before you judge them to be too bought-in how about starting to give a damn about their issues.
It doesn’t matter if the voters are to blame. If they don’t vote for you, you haven’t reached them. Complaining about that won’t make them vote for you.
This being said everyone who is a citizen of a society has some responsibility for that society. So of course the voters have responsibility.
Heh, I’m sure all the gazans, Ukrainians and Taiwanese are glad to hear the American left stood for their principles.
I really wonder how much direct financial support Russia sends our ‘left’.
That ‘left’ gets a hell lot of financial support, if not outright some method to organize brigading campaigns.
Jesus christ you’re literally quoting “George Soros funding the deep state left” MAGA rhetoric here and wondering why the dems lost the election. Stop trying to out-Republican the Republicans and maybe you’ll stop costing us elections.
Note the “left” in quotation marks!
There’s a kind of “left”, with anti-corporate policies just as vague as what some more populist right-wingers have, if not the exact same, that is just being used to call out “hypocritical, leftist virtue signaling by corporations”, which the right just uses to paint leftist social policies as unreasonable. That “left” also just seem to have a “reappropriated” version of whatever stuff the right appropriated for itself to make their isolationist foreign policies look less far-right as their “anti-imperialist” policy.
And when it comes to class warfare, it’s just the same exact work moralist and anti-intellectualist mess the right has.
That’s why I call these people leftists in name only. They’re not funded by George Soros, but by either Russia, or some “moderate, christian-conservative” party like Fidesz, if not both.
I guess the silver lining is that we won’t spend the next few months worried about violent retaliation and a second insurrection. But we’ll have to live through the bickering and multiple finger pointings among non_MAGA people on whose fault it was. Then January 20th will come and we’ll be too busy worrying about our well being to continue the blaming.
It really does parallel Brexit in a way. People are so similar.
First and foremost, I blame the racist shits who voted for Trump.
And second and secondmost, I blame the anti-Trump non-voters. The GOP only lost about 2 million from 2020, but the Democrats lost about 14 million. I know they’re not all accounted for but that is a MUCH larger swathe from blue than red. Obviously some switched sides for their own reasons but basically there are maybe 10 million voters who decided that voting for the lesser of two evils wasn’t on their agenda and did nothing. Disappointing.
Edit: obviously I blame all the propaganda from the billionaires/wealthy media/foreign interference etc too (and moreso), but let’s take that as read.
I agree it was the Democrats and the Democrats alone that are responsible for the next 4 years.
Now come take a look at this bridge, I need to shift it quickly so I’ll let you have a bargain price.
Would you rather she miss out on the bigger share of the center?
Face it, political views are a Bell Curve.
Supporting a genocide and climate destruction isn’t center . its right of center.
The only good part about this message is the 145 downvotes lol
You’re right. Sad to see the down votes.
Kamala Harris was up 10 points in ratings above Trump after Biden dropped out. Every step of the way, Kamala dropped the ball and fumbled her lead with her eye on winning over conservatives.
This country is moving more and more right, and it’s not the American people’s fault. Democrats have stagnated ever since Obama ran on hope and change, but forgot all of that shit once in the White House.
Don’t let people gaslight you here. Democrats are the ones to blame.
Nah I think she made the same mistake as Clinton by having a vagina.
The USA just lost the cold war.
I guess the USSR and USA had mutually assured destruction by means other than nuclear
Both sides lost the cold war.
It hasn’t been a cold war in Ukraine.
RIP Ukraine, Palestine, and Taiwan. It was nice knowing you.
I hope any Jill Stein voters are happy
The Jill Stein votes wouldnt even make a dent in the staggering votes for the Republicans…
Yup, Democrats only win elections when they show up to vote. And Democrats did not show up this year.
Where are the other 20million voters that didn’t show?
At home. Too lazy to do anything.
I was playing Catan online yesterday as the results were coming out, I asked the chat if anyone was from the US. Out of 4 players, 2 where from the us and one didn’t bother to go vote. I was shocked. He didn’t even have a good excuse.
That should tell you everything you need to know.
Trump didn’t win…It’s the people that failed to show up.
Tbf, while liberals realize that we need to change the electoral college system, so long as it is in place, there are a good many states where votes don’t actually matter. Either bc >70% of the state will vote blue (Democrats) in which case it is over-kill or similarly red (Republicans) in which case it is under-kill.
Also, remember that some votes remain yet to be counted, bc they were sent in via mail. Mind you, we already know (bc of the electoral college system) that these will not change the outcome of the election - though they will increase the amount of the popular vote, especially since the people that tend to send those in tens to be liberal.
On the other hand, maybe a massive showing up of liberals would have helped if Kamala had won, to show how much more massive the popular vote for her was, in comparison to for Trump? Except… would that really have convinced people who were literally gearing up for an actual civil war (or at least an “event” along those lines - perhaps another January 6th style occurrence) to forestall such? I am not convinced that it would.
Also, some people never got their mailers to use for their mail-in ballots, e.g. that story (was it ever validated?) of the landlord in I want to say California who was caught sending in the mailers for his renters. If all you need is the envelope, that’s a security concern, and I would like to know how many people report not ever receiving those envelopes to begin with.
Bc those aren’t merely votes that could potentially have gone to Kamala - bc then again, a lot of seniors were voting for Trump so we certainly can’t say that all would - and instead some may count double if they were made out to Trump. But possibly a low number, I dunno?
And COVID may have changed the game in terms of how readily people will step outside to vote. Also especially younger people have trouble getting time off their jobs, and lines this year were SUPER long - I mean hours and hours long, and with only rudimentary toilet facilities available. I UNDERSTAND why people would want to use more mail-in votes than having to do that.
But, quite possibly it was simply the Gaza situation that caused people to not be enthused about voting for her? I hope we see some kind of analysis to reveal what the true answer ends up being. In the meantime I wanted to mention the above factors that at least make the situation more complex than your one person did not vote story was able to get into:-).
They didn’t matter at all, because he won the popular vote as well - half of America wanted this.
Oh… you mean even without having counted the mail-in ballots?
Damn, my brain is not wanting to make sense of this so hard right now.:-(
I am so glad that Jon Stewart decided to renew for another year - I need him so much!:-)
Stop being in denial. It’s not like 100% of those who didn’t vote would’ve voted democrat. They didn’t care to vote, so they could’ve voted for either side cuz they clearly don’t have a strong preference.
Trump won and won even the popular vote. And you are still crying “stolen election”.
I will just start off by saying I’m not a US citizen.
Second, I never cried out “stolen election” but you clearly sound like a MAGA supporter so I won’t waste too much of my time on you.
All I said was people didn’t show up to vote. I cannot believe people don’t make the effort to go vote in your country.
Good luck with your future. And I don’t want to sound sarcastic, I’m being honest. Good luck
They backed mail trucks up to rivers and dumped ballots from democratic districts. Track your vote and make sure it was received, this election had all the makings of a high turnout event and yet somehow millions of votes vanished.
Edit: stop the steal
would love if this turned out to be true, but do you have any source?
Why would someone dump them in rivers? To make sure the evidence was found?
whoosh
where funny
And so the blame game has begun. And just like in 2016, Dems will point at everything except themselves. But that’s not how democracy works.
You can not blame this on Jill Stein voters. Trump kicked Kamala’s ass. Maybe not a landslide but it wasn’t close by any means.
I wouldn’t worry about Taiwan either. Not a chance in hell anyone around trump allows him to abandon them as their microchip factories are vital to literally everything we do in this country.
Removed by mod
Lemmy and the Fediverse as a whole is a microcosm that doesn’t make much of a difference one way or the other. We can stab at the tankies all we like, but it wasn’t their influence in the Fediverse that caused the result, even if they did manage to hoodwink a few into voting for fake tan man.
It wasn’t their influence alone, of course not.
They were just part of the bigger propaganda machine that infiltrated so many social media sites.
Taking a broader perspective, social media and those who manipulate it played a huge role in Trump’s win. And Lemmy’s part of that, like it or not.
Because this influence campaign only took place on Lemmy /s
They have accounts on all major services.
I have voted blue in every election since Obama McCain, despite not liking a single one of the General election candidates, and I phone banked and primaried for Bernie twice.
I don’t blame those who sat out. The only reason I don’t is to maximize harm reduction so I can look myself in the mirror. I blame those that voted for Trump for Trump.
We have a center right party and a fascist party, both hypercapitalist. You can scream at democratic socialists like me and other leftists, but in my entire lifetime, we have never had a party platform to enthusiastically vote for, only against the worst of 2 terrible options that embrace economic inequity and are well bribed to do so.
And singling them out as the worst offenders for doing nothing on election day while people voted FOR the fascist has just ensured keeping those that decided to disengage stay disengaged, because the neoliberals that run the Democrat party seem to hate leftists even more than Republicans, and say the same thing every cycle to them.
Because at least Republicans believe in our herp derp “free” market capitalist economy, amirite? I wish that commonality our supposed leftwing party has had with Republicans for ages, but especially since Reagan, would tell you something…
Because a society shouldn’t be comfortable with an economy that by design leaves so many of its people “losing” so hard they’re dying of exposure on our streets, let alone BOTH of our only 2 political parties that matter. But we aren’t a society, just a bunch of rugged individuals at each other’s throats fighting for the owner’s ever dwindling scraps.
The fact that liberals are blaming leftists and other liberals for this result instead of the complete and utter failings of the Democratic party this election cycle is mind boggling. Having Biden run for a second term was a huge blunder. Then when he was clearly unfit to run again, they rammed Harris through, even though she already primaried in 2020 and was extremely unpopular. Will the dnc take the blame and change anything though? Absolutely fucking not! They’ll blame the voters for being racist or sexist or unmotivated or leftist or dumb or whatever. And people will eat it up, look at these comment sections already
There was actually a lot of enthusiasm for her. But she didn’t change his campaign. She ran it the exact same way. And his campaign was already causing people to disengage. I remember in the spring he was trying to celebrate the economy and his advisors whined to the press that the people didn’t agree with him. Did they change that messaging? No they doubled down and told their base they were wrong. Their financial trouble was just Republican propaganda.
Which is insane for a political campaign.
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Yes this loss lies squarely with the Democratic Party and their failure to produce a candidate that could win. Instead they forced Kamala on us and campaigned on “Trump bad” instead of policies that would benefit ALL Americans. Not just outlier groups they were trying to win, particularly failing to win any meaningful support from Hispanic and Muslim voters.
It’s not so much that it’s only the “I can’t in good conscience vote for this party, so it’s better that the objectively worse party wins” crowd is worse then “I want the fascist to win” crowd. It’s the first crowd might listen, while the second is a lost cause.
We can certainly point fingers in every direction and hit someone with “fault.” We are all to blame and not to blame.
At least now we won’t have to vote any more.
I accept exactly 0 blame for this. I did my part. I was unable to primary and forced to vote for Kamala. There is nothing else I could do short of quitting my job and campaigning for free.
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Oh please, 20 million voters that didn’t vote wasn’t affected by the rantings of a few people on Lemmy or Reddit.
And Xitter, and Facebook. They have those accounts too.
Nah I think it was Elon “Goebbels 2” Musk more than them. They didn’t help but he should get all the credit.
Him and Joe Rogan
Yeah the convenient takeover of the vessel people use to express opinions was certainly a huge factor in spreading pro-trump material.
That would almost be funny again. So why didn’t you vote?
I was gonna, but then some people on a forum didn’t like her.
You deserve him if THAT is what it takes.
That’s all it takes. Manipulation in your doom scroll
Lol y’all will never learn. This is the whole Bernie Bros cost Clinton the election. Why don’t you take a look at the real reasons she never was going to win.
Because American men won’t elect a woman
If that’s what you believe, why didn’t you demand that a man take her place?
Because I don’t have a problem voting for a woman.
It seems like you might have a problem with it since you’re insisting that she lost because she’s a woman.
Your graph seems to indicate that education level has more to do with voting preferences than gender.
Edit: and this seems to contradict your theory that this is all about gender biases and not something else like abandoning the party base
I don’t know how much insisting I’m doing. There are lots of reasons. I feel like that’s putting words in my mouth.
Stupid people. Not being able to see the less worse side makes them stupid people.
And siding with the side that will bring worse to the table just because you can’t handle something that the less worse side does? That also makes them stupid people in terms of general and emotional intelligence.
As far as we know, it was just one guy with a bunch of burner accounts.
That certainly is very possible. They all sound like the same person. Or, like they have a specific game plan they all have to adhere to. Almost like a job ;)
The genocide will continue until moral improves
Well, ML doesn’t care about Gaza anymore since it was just a tactic. Now they are pushing Ukraine committing genocide.
It’s all a game.
lol, keep the tears coming 😊😊😊
Oh hey it’s a cunt.
I usually like those.
Not that one though
How does it feel to have zero empathy and getting off of the pain of others? You sound exactly like those who celebrate genocides.
Thanks for the confirmation
Slrpnk with Notvoting did their fair share, seeing how low the turnout was.
oh yeah, in this fediverse echo chamber where there’s only one narrative: “trump bad”, for sure, those lemmy.ml people were swaying millions of voters away from Kamala.
jeez, lemmy, you were pathetic during the run-off, but you’re also a very sore loser. A bunch of kids not even being able to look into the mirror.
America has abandoned Ukraine and NATO.
Time for Europe to step up.
Europe has already been pulling their weight in Ukraine. Now they’ll also have to pick up the slack that they US is about to create.
Financially absolutely. We do not have the military industrial complex to replace the armaments that the US has been providing however.
I’m sure Ukraine has been preparing for this eventually but I really fear for them and the medium term consequences for us all if Putin gets his way in this war. :(
Realistic headline: Russia finally wins Cold War by installing orange shithead for second time
Yeah, they’re gloating now. But who knows, maybe Trump will backstab Putin like he backstabs everyone else. Though it’s unlikely, since he seems to cower whenever he’s near his Daddy Vladdy.
Trump also probably still holds a grudge against Ukraine for not manufacturing/finding dirt on Biden during the last election, or whatever the particulars were.
And don’t forget his impeachment over Ukraine too. He is going to fuck them hard. I really hope Europe can pick up the slack on arms production quickly.
Ukraine’s chances have certainly taken a hit after this election. I also hope Europe starts producing more arms to back Ukraine. Europe needs to do that now and so much more.
All about money! If there’s money for trump then he will sell whatever he can to get that money.
Trump is very unpredictable on Ukraine. He said he will support Ukraine but who knows. But some say he will withdraw support from Taiwan, which is unlikely because he never had good relations with Xi and China. As for Israel-Palestine, we know where stands on that.
For me as non-American, I am more concerned with geopolitics. I wish Trump would provide support to Ukraine. But if he doesn’t, at least he will stand against China. I understand many Americans are tired of over twenty years of hawkish foreign policies with corporate and imperialist agenda, but if Trump withdraws from Europe, at least he should pivot towards China. It balances out between complete isolationism and imperialism (I believe on a case by case basis of interventionism as part of just war theory, like the US entry into World War 2 and intervention on Yougoslavia).
Everyone should know about The Foundations of Geopolitics: The Geopolitical Future of Russia
That plan from 1997 is literally being implemented before our eyes. And now that trump is in again it will accelerate much faster than it has been (so far with Brexit, Ukraine, trump, partnering w/ Iran, far right in Germany). Next removing US from NATO and driving France and Germany apart.
Well that’s fucking terrifying. Project 1997.
Yeah the Orange Sack of Shit is useful to a lot of people.
They’re literally calling him a useful idiot… That means something in security circles.
Of course, now that Putins biggest asset is back in place. Remember when Russia took out American agents in Russia, shortly after Trump requested a list of those people from the agencies, which was shortly after a talk with Putin that went without any witnesses?
To be fair they’re saying this not because it’s actually useful (which it might be) but because them saying this stirrs shit up and makes people more upset. They’re playing on the feeling that is already there, and the best thing to do is to dismiss their comment as a play to make us upset with eachother and watch what they do instead. They want us to burn bridges. That’s what’s useful to them.
Few weeks ago it was Biden that Russia preferred.
I don’t understand why people give a fuck about what they have to say.
People give a fuck because they’re (with reason) emotionally invested in the politics of their lives, and which politicians are elected directly effects their lives. That one’s not too hard to grasp.
But while that will always be the case, people need to realize that Russian propaganda is inherently opportunistic and it has a goal of pushing us further apart from one another. There are real issues that lead to these sorts of political outcomes.
It’s not because of Russia, but the russian state is incredibly efficient at grabbing those issues and amplifying them to the point where we stop trusting our neighbors and families, thus breaking the democratic wheel.
Knowing that is part of the solution but realizing that there are actual issues that make people vote for political figures like Trump and listening to those voters without making assumptions about their morals is even more important.
edit to add: the republicans are part of America. Their voters are part of America. Just as democrats are. Trump is part of it, so is Jill Stein. Own it, learn from it, don’t repeat it. Try to understand why it happened. This is true for every country, but with different characters, other movements.
Obviously. Trump is a Russian asset, always has been.
Goodbye support to Ukraine, hello to American boots on the ground in Russia
Jesus Christ that last thought hadn’t even entered my head. I can’t see Poland or the Baltics putting up with that though.
FML.
It’s probably too soon to expect something like that. Simply withdrawing support is likely to accomplish the same goal, and with far less fuss, plus leaves Russia looking all strong to do it without American help, and also the lowered friction reduces the chances of like another assassination attempt on Trump’s life or an attempted upheaval of the entire government.
Anyway, I’m saying that if Russia doesn’t absolutely need those boots, then it’s better for Russia actually, in the long term, to refuse such aid even if it were offered.
See? Russia doesn’t lie all the time.
They aren’t wrong to say this.
