So let me get this straight.
- Linus screwed over a small two-person startup with his own incompetence by using the product in an unintended way and not using the GPU and instructions which were provided for him.
- Stole their prototype which they needed to develop their product further, even going so far as to sell it at auction.
- Goes on record to say “yes, we screwed up but it would cost $100-$500 to fix it so I’m not going to and no, I’m not apologizing for that”. (That amount of money is chump change to him.)
- Lies about offering to recompense the company. They didn’t do that until after getting called out.
- When he gets criticized for screwing over this company for his own mistakes, rather than owning up he tries to gaslight everybody into think he is somehow the victim?? “Today was so hard bros” oh poor wittle multi-millionaire Linus… I’ll be sure to pray for you while I struggle to pay my rent.
What a fucking piece of shit, fuck him. I hate people like this that simply can’t own up to mistakes and have to deflect all criticism.
It’s not just the Billet Labs thing, GN showed a pattern at LMG of rushing out bad test data and therefore wrong conclusions to keep up the frankly ridiculous volume of videos they put out.
It’s the sort of thing that makes me really, really sad for the people working there. That crazy breakneck pace cannot be good for mental health.
This is the kind of thing a union (which Linus, of course, has said he’s very against) would help with
I kept thinking about that watching GN’s last video and how it’s so perfectly in line with what GN exposed.
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“I like unions, I just don’t think they’re right for my company” is one of the oldest tricks in the anti-union playbook
I like condoms. I looove condoms. I just don’t think they’re right for our relationship
he wants to run a business where a union isn’t needed.
That is code for “I hate unions and will do my best to bust them up before they start”. Same BS as when a company calls itself a “family”. Total and complete bullshit to try and emotionally manipulate you to doing more for less than your worth.
That’s how bosses have to phrase being anti union. “Oh we’re a family here why do you need a union” shit
He’s basically saying the same thing by saying that. Wake the fuck up.
Good ol’ double speak
If a union isn’t needed form one anyway, now you only have to do the contract negotiations once instead of doing the same shtick of “This is the payraise I can offer you, please sign if you are fine with that”. There is literally no downside to having a union anyway if you are of the opinion your employees don’t need one.
Now if you actually think a union would harm you as a business owner that equation changes and you have every incentive to invent reasons why a union is unnecessary anyway and how unions only exist in companies with crap working conditions. (Cannot speak for the US but at least here some of the best companies are well regarded by employees because of the union, not despite of it.)
“We want a business where a union isnt needed” is a massive red flag. Kroger said the same to me at an employee orientation in 2016, at the time their starting pay was 7.75 and working pressures massive, as I’m sure they still are.
You should read Catch 22
Do you honestly think he’d come out directly and say “I’m against unions”? Wouldn’t it be just as easy for him to say “I’m pro union and I’d support my employees if they decide to unionize” if that’s what he believed? C’mon now
Unions, the bane of rich people that take advantage of their workers via positions of power.
They somewhat recently did a “what do lmg employees really think of working here” video, and it seemed like the #1 complaint was the pace. I really hope they take this criticism to heart and just… Slow down for a bit
But they won’t. Cos $$$.
Part of the equation here is the transparency. It’s good that they are transparent and I do think they listen. Part of the interesting side to watch is the interaction with the community.
I used to like LTT up until their “Linux Challenge” videos which were just a pain to watch. Shit like this coming from the biggest tech channel on youtube just drives me up the wall.
After this happened, GitHub added a Download button to their for preview pages. So they themselves considered it was enough of a problem/inconvenience to not have a download button.
That bit made me cringe. You go to the file, and can download using the Raw button or using wget. It’s not hard, it’s ignorance.
It also has nothing to do with Linux and everything to do with how Github works. I actually give him a pass on nuking X while installing Steam, that shouldn’t happen(although he did get a nice big warning, but that warning was far from user friendly). But some of the other stuff they ran into was “This doesn’t work exactly like windows, therefore is bad.” type stuff.
In that video he did everything that everyone recommends not to do when trying out Linux:
- Never copy paste and execute random code from the internet.
- Never execute commands on the terminal you don’t fully understand what they do.
- Never say yes or okay to any dialog prompt unless you understand what the dialog is asking about.
He is stupid, he paid the stupid tax. Linux didn’t do any of the things that went wrong in that video, it was his own stubbornness and ignorance.
the problem with a lot of these recommendations though is that to a non-linux user: all code is random, and no commands are understood. you only learn by doing, and if you cant do until you know, you’ll never get anywhere. you gotta make a few mistakes to learn anything, and thats what happened. yea he paid the stupid tax, but so does everyone else while they learn a new thing. that was the entire point of the challenge: how hard is it? and it turns out, quite! info is scattered, theres lots of commands and code that sounds like it’ll do what you want but is actually a bad idea (as evidenced by the recommendations you point out), and things can break easily. thats the video.
Yeah, it’s not like people can read and there are several tutorials and manuals freely available all over the internet.
How would someone who doesn’t use GitHub or linux know how to do that?
And to prove the point there was a website dedicated to taking GitHub links and turning them into download links.
GitHub shouldn’t be a method of software distribution, but a lot of FOSS devs take the easy way out. Understandably so; they’re volunteering their time. Still, Linus is in a position to show how it works rather than complaining.
I know Linus is more of a hardware guy but c’mon. You learn git freshman year into any Computer Science-related degree. Failing that, 5 seconds of Google or ChatGPT even will set you straight. Maybe it wasn’t intuitive, but I like think the biggest tech youtuber would have knowledge of something so fundamental to his field…
As I recall he was trying to use Linux as if he was a regular non-techy person. So it could make sense for him to do that knowing it’s wrong. (Which wouldn’t apply to “apt install Steam” yes do as I say issue, which a regular user probably wouldn’t have tried and ignored the warning even with jargon there).
I don’t find it completly unbelievable even a techy could make that mistake because they do not use version control software like git.
I really don’t think he was acting or anything. Like someone else said, if he knew how it worked he could have used it as a moment to teach others right? Instead he just completely fumbled everything, said it was set up incorrectly and blamed the website for it. Which given recent events is such a Linus thing to do…
Why would a regular non-techy person need to run GoXLR on Linux
ohh boy, I almost forgot about that. That was super painful. It’s a website linus, not a file browser.
I loved watching him type out “yes I understand the thing that I’m about to do is going to break my computer” and then complain that the thing that he did broke his computer!
Linus shits on entrepreneurship with his continual BS with easily caught bad data. No reputable companies should touch him. Anything he pushes to his viewers should be suspicious. I’ll be wondering how much LMG gets under the table for posting positive reviews.
I’ve seen videos where he’s just basically repeating the script marketing have given him… zero difficult questions. No doubt they’re quite lucrative.
Unfortunately they’re his most accurate ones.
Woah woah woah woah!
I dunno how many times this has to be said!
He didn’t SELL it! He AUCTIONED it!
That’s a distinction that needs to be made!
And it was for CHARITY. Surely that obsolves him right?
I herby start the bidding on LM! Do I hear $500?
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I was almost ready to be with you, but after reading the tweet from Madison elsewhere in the thread, Linus is going to have to go above and beyond to fix things.
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See, everything’s really actually tooootally fine and Linus is a totes wonderful dude who runs a happy little family worth a hundred million dollars.
Except his employees endure various forms of abuse and are visibly afraid of him at least some of the time. So much suffering is clearly a price many are willing to accept. Companies drive people to breakdowns and literal suicide and… oh well, I guess? What are people gonna do, think a little? Care a little? Post one tweet (or Xcretion or whatever the fuck) on the way to go buy the latest from a company that just killed someone, or destroyed their mental health and ability to live, or maybe “just” (said very sarcastically) groped them a bit and caused a crapload of undue stress besides? No wonder my mind’s all fucked up: I look at the people around me and few of them would so much as skip a DLC to make this world any better. Everything is fucked and it’s only going to get worse and I feel like I’m gonna implode if I have to see one more comfortable prick explain how his precious fucking rich white guy parasocial pal only accidentally constantly screws people over. He’s really a nice guy, actually! Probably tons of fun to have a beer with! Funny on screen!
What’s some peon’s life, or a dozen, or a hundred or thousand or million of them compared to the complete comfort of someone who’s just such a good ol’ boy?
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FWIW, Luke was clearly trying to prod Linus into acknowledging the problem of the “trust me, bro” warranty on the WAN show instead of treating it like a joke. I think he was also making some expressions of dissatisfaction about how that cooler block review was handled, which is a major part of this.
Obviously, there’s only so far he can push things on his employer’s platform. Plus, the two of them have been friends for a long time. But I do wonder if he’s going to break in the not so distant future.
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Without Luke on the wan show Linus would be useless. It would be one guy saying whatever comes off the top of his head ranting uncontrollably about everything.
He knows when he goes off on a subject and Luke is there that Luke is going to challenge him if he’s being an ass, so you get a better quality of content from Linus than he would produce on his own.
Linus isn’t going to watch his mouth, that’s honestly his shtick.
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If you can stop your friend/boss saying something stupid (which they may regret saying later if they change their mind) then how does responsiblity make that not worthwhile?
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I feel what you’re saying and I feel like I should be agreeing with you. But we do have to be careful here.
What we know and what we see coming out of LMG is what they want us to know and see. When there’s a video of Linus making it right, It’s because they wanted to make a video showing him making it right. You’re not going to see videos of him making it wrong and screwing over people, (if he does) It would be bad for business.
Likewise one ex employee’s statement of bad treatment there isn’t gospel He has hundreds of people. There are plenty of people that have left and there’s not a lot of consensus that I found that things are horrible there other than pace.
His response to GN is obviously trash, written in a moment of anger. He tends to put his foot in his mouth on live streams when he starts getting angry about a subject.
Him not sending back the prototype block, honestly is probably standard operating procedure. I wouldn’t send anything to them that I didn’t expect to lose. They receive so much equipment from so many places that they don’t even open for years, that they’re probably kind of blind to it actually being a hardship on a smaller place. I see the lie about him saying he already offered to pay them back a bit more problematic.
As far as his actual reputation or his character alignment sheet, we don’t really know. I would assume that if he was chaotic evil that we would hear a hell of a lot more about that. The guy he brought in to run the place is an insulating factor. When it was pitched it seemed that he was there to insulate Linus from the company, it’s also likely that he’s there to insulate the company from Linus.
Honestly the only thing out of all this that rings unassailably true is the untrustworthy data claim. He’s placing himself and his company to be a ultimate source of truth for benchmarking. But he comes right out and says that he won’t strive to make a better benchmark for a product for $500 when the number is obviously off. There really isn’t a lot of room for that in what he’s trying to build. If you’re going to come out and prove that power supplies, video cards, CPUs and motherboards make the numbers they say they’re going to make, you’re not going to do that with incorrect testing, shrugs and accusations. He’s going to need to be honest to a fault and transparent. If he expects us to take the data seriously he’s going to have to get out of this “oh that’s good enough I’d trust it so you should trust it” mentality.
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Jesus fuck Linus. Half the reason you are popular is because people trust your statements; and you are just flushing that away.
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Billet has confirmed that they sent a 3090Ti that LMG has been sitting on for 9 weeks now without using or returning.
How is it even possible to use the wrong GPU when the correct one is in the same box. That makes it seem malicious rather than foolish.
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I assume one of the Billet folk must have shit in his cornflakes or turned down a sponsorship request or something along those lines.
I might be spreading misinformation but I’ve seen it mentioned by multiple sources so I’ll take a lesson from LTT, Linus invests in a company that makes gpu waterblocks.
Do you have a source? The only notable investment of his I’m aware of is framework.
Someone in the chain assumed that there were spare 3090s and just stole the card that came with the block. Obviously for a cheeky tech makeover bit.
Maybe the reason that it turned up again recently was because they saw everything catch fire, panicked, and put it back?
Either that, or LMG’s logistics just put it in a general GPU pile without putting it with the cooler, so when they couldn’t find it with the cooler, it was assumed lost.
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They would have never done this to a larger manufacturer, but since the prototype was a passion project by two tech enthusiasts they simply did not care at all. It’s frankly disgusting.
But why does it even matter if they do it correctly or not? It’s still a water block that costs over $800. It’s a bad product at a fundamental level because not only is it a niche of a niche it’s wildly overpriced. No amount of testing is going to make it a good product. It was never going to sell well. I do not understand why people care so much about it.
The quanity-over-quality and QA errors are way more egregious than them shitting a product that deserves to get shit on. And as far as I can tell the auction thing is a single, isolated mistake of that nature. They do have a track record of making errors in their reviews. But what they don’t have is a history of auctioning off prototypes. It is a really weird thing to be so up-in-arms about. It was an accident and they are paying for it. What is the big deal?
That’s really missing the point. They were trying to sell the water block to rich people with more money than sense that, importantly, wanted the best of the best. By not reviewing it correctly, LTT screwed a small company over pretty hard. Linus then went on to say that he made this decision to save $100 to $500. He was unwilling to spend that kind of money to preserve the journalistic integrity of the channel.
The fact that he tried to make it look like LMG was going to compensate them for the block (replying only after the GN video was released) only makes it worse.
By not reviewing it correctly,
to preserve the journalistic integrity of the channel.
That’s also missing the point. That video was not a review. There wasn’t journalistic integrity because it wasn’t a journalistic piece. If you go into a for-fun video expecting a proper review process of course you are going to be disappointed.
If the argument is that it should have been a full review, then sure maybe it should have. But it wasn’t one, so it doesn’t make any sense to hold it to that standard when that was never the intention behind it.
The video is clearly about the water block. They describe their experience while building a computer with it and then give purchasing advice. Sure seems close enough to a review that they should be fair to the manufacturer. And their ethics should not go out of the window just because the didn’t put “review” in the title (when was the last time they did that anyway…).
It can be about the water block without being a review of the water block. The premise of the video is somebody with no experience doing water cooling (Adam) trying to build it. If the intent was for it to be a review they would have someone more knowledgeable do it. I completely disagree it is unethical to make a for-fun video messing around with it, unless they agreed to do something else in their emails with Billet Labs which we have not seen.
I also don’t believe they give any purchasing advice either but feel free to post a timestamp if you have one.
You sure are going to unusual lengths to (poorly) defend this behavior. Maybe there’s something you should be disclosing about who you really are.
What? They put it on the wrong card when the correct card was provided by the manufacturer. The manufacturer confirmed to them the incompatability. If the premise of the video is “idiots do something wrong and act like it’s the part’s fault because they felt personally slighted and have an ego driven response”.
It wasn’t, if they had the correct and compatible part, it may have been an entirely different experience to them, and that part was provided to them by the manufacturer.
We don’t even know if a lay person with instructions and the right part would have issues, because the original unforced error by LMG was so egregious. No matter what you have to see how this isn’t fair to anyone, especially not the target consumer of this device. It might even paint it in a very negative light through the fault of the people making the video, entirely. The manufacturer did everything they could.
Then when called out they double down on the ego hurt response, twice. Saying nothing would change when they never even tried to use it device appropriately. Then they add insult to injury by never even giving the part back.
FYI - selling the prototype (LMG were aware this was a one of a kind proto) ensures that no other reviewer can have an easier time installing on the right hardware, no one can ever prove Linus wrong because the part is gone and they won’t say to who…
That’s weird right?
Recently LTT built a $100k PC desk for a Minecraft streamer. Sometimes the over the top engineering/materials (and thus cost) around something is the entire point. If they gave it a fair shake, and still called it a bad product, and then returned it. There wouldn’t be an issue. It being a bad product isn’t the issue.
Then what is the issue? If the outcome is the same why does it matter? The video it was featured in wasn’t even a review, the premise was someone who has zero experience in water cooling trying to install it. I feel like most people didn’t even watch the video.
Sure do love the hivemind downvoting instead of answering my question. I am genuinely asking, what is the issue? I really don’t understand why it has so many people this mad. To me it seems like people were expecting a review when that wasn’t the intent of the video.
The video it was featured in wasn’t even a review, the premise was someone who has zero experience in water cooling trying to install it
So sick of this shit. Reviewing something and then hiding behind “it’s not a review bro!” You know damn well the criticisms extended beyond just that. Linus straight up just said it was a bad product outright. THAT’S A REVIEW.
He didn’t say it was a bad product in anywhere in the video. Maybe you should watch the thing you are trying to criticize.
The original video is clearly a review and he clearly criticizes the product for being hard to install even though he is of course installing it incorrectly and not using the materials the company provided. He states unequivocally it’s a bad product here: “It’s a bad product. It’s bad because it makes absolutely no sense and nobody should buy it”.
While not saying out right that it is bad, he is certainly implying it and clearly telling his audience that they should not buy it.
At 32:42 of the video of the original report.
https://youtu.be/FGW3TPytTjcI am on mobile and can’t figure out timestamps.
The issue is that they stole a prototype they were entrusted to care for. Agreed to return it, but then didn’t. Got mad when they were kindly asked to return it. Put it on auction, sold it to someone for charity. Potentially unintentionally facilitating corporate espionage. Then got mad when they were publicly called out.
This is not the first time even. They have lost, misplaced or destroyed other’s properties before.
And now they want to project LMG and their new concept, Lab, as a beacon of consumer protection journalism. They have to make a choice. Either they are an entertainment company, or a serious tech review magazine that tests technology to provide consumers with accurate info to make purchase decisions. They can’t be both, the jank and fooling around of one doesn’t work nicely with the journalistic ethics demanded of the other.
“They” didn’t agree to return it. Someone responding to an email did. Linus himself and the other 100+ employees probably had no idea the thing even existed. It is really on the person who responded to the email and the planners of the auction which is probably 2-3 people at most.
Got mad when they were kindly asked to return it.
Where? That did not happen until after the video was published.
Put it on auction, sold it to someone for charity.
Which was an accident, which is being paid for.
This is not the first time even. They have lost, misplaced or destroyed other’s properties before.
Do you have any examples? And if that is the case maybe Billet Labs should have done more due-diligence before giving them a supposedly very important prototype. Linus is literally known as the guy who drops things.
And now they want to project LMG and their new concept, Lab, as a beacon of consumer protection journalism. They have to make a choice. Either they are an entertainment company, or a serious tech review magazine that tests technology to provide consumers with accurate info to make purchase decisions. They can’t be both, the jank and fooling around of one doesn’t work nicely with the journalistic ethics demanded of the other.
Fair enough but I disagree. I think you can have for-fun videos and serious videos mixed together. However they should definitely be more clearly labeled as such, or maybe even keep them on different channels completely.
“They” didn’t agree to return it. Someone responding to an email did. Linus himself and the other 100+ employees probably had no idea the thing even existed. It is really on the person who responded to the email and the planners of the auction which is probably 2-3 people at most.
Tell me you’ve never had a position of actual authority without telling me you’ve never had a position of actual authority.
No, go away. You obviously have no interest in reasonable conversation. As you are willfully ignoring already mentioned facts and arguments from the video in order to be contrarian and hard headed. I will not indulge you.
LMG is the company that did these things. Billet was under the impression they were talking with a representative of LMG, for which all that they agreed with, was binding. If someone, an individual, failed at their job to fulfill their agreements with Billet, then LMG, the company, failed. If Linus wants to be taken seriously and have LMG considered a big adult company, they better start acting like it. And that starts with taking responsibility and owning up to their mistakes responsibly. Not letting their CVO and owner go on idiot circular incoherent rants.
Linus, is this you?
You got me. It’s me, Linus Sebastian. you guys know I love the Twitch emote AYAYA so much I use it as my username.
Mate, it’s a prototype, their first product. If that design works well and will be mass produced the price goes down. With possibly a budget option released later that actually makes sense to buy.
A lot of companies started with the luxury version of a product and then later offered budget versions after showing everyone they could deliver.
Linus not only dissed them (after “testing” the product on the wrong GPU) but also sold off their only prototype. Otherwise they could have sent it to another reviewer to do a proper test.
You wanna talk about poorly run businesses? Why are they sending out their prototype if they only have one and it’s so important? At least make two of them.
They didn’t only have one Prototype but this was their best and most recent one, you also generally don’t copy prototypes until you are 99% to completion. Additionally they trusted LTT to send the Prototype back in a timely manner once they were done testing, as you would expect from any company with even a speck of professionalism.
I’d guess in the time the Prototype was away they either worked on other things (Packaging/Manufacturing/Marketing Solutions for the final release?) or went on a planned short Vacation.
Or more digital design for tweaks and simulations, waiting to validate against the prototype when it came back
Buddy are you trolling just for the sake of trolling or is that an genuine POV of yours.
If you are genuine then hear me out.
When a small company makes a prototype it is 1st to test, iterate and perfect. The 2nd job of a near perfect prototype is to promote the company to investors and hopefully garner money for the next step ie perfecting the process to make a finished product.
A small company notwithstanding even a big company like Nokia makes a single prototype to begin with and then replicate it to perfect the production process.
The second job is especially important for a startup who put all their money to make a prototype. The reason they gave it to LTT was for promotion. LTT dissed the company that the product is not viable but didn’t highlight that the concept of perfected and made cheaper can become a viable option for water cooling. On top of that they sold it without permission, under the guise of charity, which I doubt even happened.
I would love to see them pull something like this with any of the big companies. That is an sure shot way to corporate suicide.
If they can’t think of pulling something like this with a big company they should have thought twice before doing it with a small company.
When your defense of LMG boils down to “anyone would be stupid to trust them with something important”…
And yes, it was stupid to trust them and I hope no one else does going forward. But it doesn’t change that LMG were the ones to screw up and did so in so many ways it’s comical. Either they don’t know what they are doing, don’t care, or some combination of the two.
It’s not a water block that costs $800 though. It’s a prototype water block that they estimated the cost of producing to be around $800 given R&D, labor, materials, etc.
It was never meant to be a production ready product, and it should never have been treated as such.
The issue with the auction is due to the fact that they sent Billet numerous emails claiming to have prepared it to be shipped back, including one in which they said they would send tracking info shortly. They didn’t know it was being auctioned off until afterward. And Linus didn’t contact them about compensation until 3 hours after GNs video went live.
These are facts, backed by actual evidence which you can see for yourself in GNs latest HW news.
The product costs over $800. I’m not talking about the prototype. And sure “they” sent Billet multiple emails. That means one person sent the emails and then failed to follow up on them. The 100+ people at the company are not responsible for what happened, the 2-3 people that should have dealt with it are.
And Linus didn’t contact them about compensation until 3 hours after GNs video went live.
Okay? But he is compensating them. That is all I said.
The 100+ people at the company are not responsible for what happened, the 2-3 people that should have dealt with it are.
That’s not how businesses work.
Those 2-3 people were acting as employees of the company, executing business for the company. The company is responsible for those actions.
You can’t just hand-wave it away as “our employees suck at their jobs”.
You hired them. You authorized them to do those jobs. You are responsible for the manner in which they were done (or not done)
Sure, but people are acting like Linus himself is somehow directly responsible for it, some people even acting like it’s intentionally malicious, when it’s more just lack of oversight.
Billet estimated the cost of the prototype to be $800. They never sent them a product.
Linus said “they agreed on compensation” and yet billet has stated they never responded to his offer, that he sent literal hours after GN posted the main video. Linus lied here. He can say he is compensating them all he wants, but there has not been any agreement made between the parties involved. They didn’t want payment, they wanted their fucking prototype back.
Billet estimated the cost of the prototype to be $800.
You already have incorrect information. That is the cost of the actual product not the cost of the prototype.
And he did not lie, he said agreed to compensate them which he did do. That doesn’t require an agreement between parties, he decided he would do it which is objectively true.
They didn’t want payment, they wanted their fucking prototype back.
They can make another one with the money. It’s not like they took the CAD files. It’s a manufactured piece of copper. It can be rebuilt.
Because that’s literally their whole job. Their justification for testing something on hardware it wasn’t intended for is that they (LTT) didn’t want to spend the money on their end required to do their job properly.
It’s not about the product in question. It’s about their clearly inadequate processes and considerations, prioritizing profits over accuracy. Kinda terrible for a company trying to break into the whole accuracy market with their testing and data.
That video was not a review. So no, in this case that was not their job. Their job was to entertain. I agree they have inadequate processes and are prioritizing profits over accuracy for their reviews. But that is not relevant to the water block video.
Nah, I am not buying that. They gave an opinion based on data they collected. That is a review, even if they don’t call it that.
review: a formal assessment or examination of something with the possibility or intention of instituting change if necessary.
What about the video was formal? It is two people dicking around with water cooling for 20 minutes it’s not a formal review.
But why does it even matter if they do it correctly or not?
Because people with a case of the give a damns would give a damn.
But it has zero effect on the outcome? It is over priced regardless of whether or not it cools well.
A review isn’t a conclusion. It’s an overview of a product. A slapstick video where you throw together a system to review something and fail to even use the right graphics card when you HAVE IT ON HAND is just assinine in terms of being lazy and not doing your job right
But the video is not supposed to be a review. Literally the whole point is for it to be asinine entertainment. Their job for that video was to entertain not to do a review.
Did you downvote your own comment? How do you have zero upvotes?
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What harm was done exactly? If anything this is one of the greatest things that could have possibly happened to their company. They’re getting more positive publicity than a good review would have given them from this controversy.
And I am autistic, so congrats for figuring that out I guess. I have a hard time relating to other people. What I am supposed to do? I can’t magically feel the way you do and this whole thing is based on feelings rather than any actual tangible damage being done. In my mind if you make a mistake, apologize, and pay for it you should be good to go assuming they don’t have the same issue again in the future.
And sociopathy is not a simple lack of empathy it is a specific set of symptoms. Stop diagnosing people over the internet. It’s doubtful you have a degree in psychology and if you do you would know that’s unethical which is ironic considering the LTT discussion of ethics.
Relating to other people can be challenging if it is not something that comes to you naturally.
Let’s say this happened to you personally. Maybe you saved the last of your money to take a chance and make something you wanted to be proud of, maybe Linus was someone you looked up to, maybe you worked countless days to design and redesign to get it perfect. How would Linus’s initial response make you feel?
Let’s say you give him the benefit of the doubt on the initial review. You wait, and try to work with him to get things set right, and you don’t get a resolution. And then this happens. And you see his response where he still does not apologize or regret how he handled it.
How would you feel now? You put a lot of effort into all of this, to be shamed and belittled and have negative things said about your product and efforts for everyone to see.
If none of that would make you sad or upset, then you are able to shrug off a lot more than most people. Empathy is going to have to be something that you recognize you don’t have, but still have to be able to show sympathy, because you don’t want to invalidate the feelings of others. Try to understand their perspective if possible.
Well Linus argument doesn’t hold much water. If the product is so fundamentally flawed in his mind, then why even bother with it? If you as a reviewer can’t even give a proper opinion and spend an other 500 dollars on it, to give your audience a good review. Then don’t spend the extra 1000 dollars or more in editing that video.
His looking at views to show his sponsors, but forgets that the audience is the first thing that generates those views. Still a viewer of the main LTT channel, but Shortcurcet was fast out of my subscription list.
And as a non English native speaker, please don’t but the corrections on subtitle height, it a hassle.
If the product is so fundamentally flawed in his mind, then why even bother with it? If you as a reviewer can’t even give a proper opinion and spend an other 500 dollars on it, to give your audience a good review.
For fun. For entertainment. That is the point of the video. He wasn’t making that video “as a reviewer” he was making it as an entertainer.
He wasn’t making that video “as a reviewer” he was making it as an entertainer.
“It’s a bad product. It’s bad because it makes absolutely no sense and nobody should buy it”
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That’s on the WAN Show, that’s not part of the video. Separately made comments are separate.
Well then he shouldn’t have given a buyers recommendation. Some of Linus video’s don’t make any sense, like everyone can install a swimming pool at the back of their PC? Those balls to the walls videos are still the most fun to watch, as it’s original content, and maybe something they should stick to more often.
But don’t give a buyer recommendation about a small company, if the testing is done in a bad way.
Link to me where in the video there was a buyer recommendation.
Part of his rambling reply to the GN video was a comment that he was ‘looking out for the consumer’ and they didn’t want to recommend buying it. It was part of his justfication not to use the thing correctly.
I haven’t exactly watched Linus’ videos about it but here’s how I understand the situation:
They deemed the product a “nobody should ever buy this for any reason” because of two things: 1: The cooler was for a 3090TI, by all accounts an “old” card 2: The cooler is priced at 800$
Of these 2 factors both have issues. For starters the “product” they tested was only a prototype, there is a 4090 Version coming that would be more appealing to the market. Second and most important: the cooler is apparently aimed at an incredibly niche market. A market so niche in fact 800$ for a cooler isn’t considered expensive. Just as an example: the product stack they themselves compare against is about as expensive as their own cooler block. They are not as egregiously overpriced as LTT claims. In fact given their selling point of “Only one cooler block” I’d argue they actually have a competitive product here. Can’t be sure though as I’m not well versed in the custom loop market.
Now under these circumstances giving such an absolute statement of “nobody should ever buy this” suddenly seems a tad bit unfair. No this cooler isn’t for the masses but by refusing to retest and not considering the market this cooler is aimed at LTT has done a disservice to the people potentially interested in this who will now be subconsciously steered away from it.
What Linus did is essentially review a Super Car. But instead of Gasoline he filled the tank with Diesel (not exactly the best analogy but the closest I can think of), then took it out for a drive. Claimed the Performance was shit for the price and that nobody ever should buy this for any reason at all. For a product like this it doesn’t matter that average Joe shouldn’t buy it, that is obvious from the get go but by not doing this properly LTT essentially robbed the intended customer base of an objective take on it.
Honestly, the prototype as it stands is a product no one should buy. But it is also a product only 1 person could buy (and that was a mistake…). It is a very expensive for what it is and anyone that has that kind of money to spend on a cooler is going to want the latest graphics card, not the last years model. So as a product for the 3090TI it really does not have any real market.
But it is only a prototype. And if they made one for the 4090TI instead it would have a niche market again. Development of these things takes time and they are only a very small company - no telling what they will bring to market in the future but I think it would take less time to adapt what they learnt from this prototype to one for the newer cards wont take as long. Maybe they might even need to target the next gen as their first actual market.
Either way, the conclusions that LTT made from their botched testing are useless. No performance improvement at all when used incorrectly does not tell us anything. If they had tested it correctly, and found a slight improvement in performance then it means they are on to something for the niche market they are going after. Which I assume is people with lots of money that want to squeeze the most performance as they can out of their system. Even if this version is not worth it for anyone that can afford it as you can get better performance with the newer card, what they actually release might be if it targets the current gen cards at the time of release.
But they still have to start somewhere with hardware they can get their hands on to actually do some R&D on their product ideas so a prototype being made for the 3090TI does make sense even if the product targeting that now does not.
Either way no good conclusion can be drawn from LTTs review but that also wont stop their review from hurting the company potential future customers. So is really a shitty thing for them to have done all round.
This is exactly the problem LTT is having, thinking they know better then the consumer. If the only metric is value/money then Apple, Ferrari , Hermes, etc… Would not exist.
They really need to take a step back and rearrange their priorities as a company.
Transistors at a point were a thousand dollars each. If you know anything about historic pricing for computer components you would know that anything new will be inordinately expensive because of the cost of custom components, new assembly processes, and custom tooling.
The big deal is they didn’t admit to having accidentally auctioned it (the alternative is they knowingly did so despite requests to return it), and in the same breath talked about how they offered recompense (implying that it came before the video calling them out when it didn’t), and firing back on justified criticism as if they’re the victim
Oh, and all while claiming they own up to their mistakes even in the face of consequences.
They bulldozed a smaller company without a hint of empathy. He doesn’t consider that maybe the price could have come down or the performance (when properly used) would be worth it to a small segment of overclockers - even in the supposed mia culpa Linus takes several shots at the product he basically buried
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+1, I never understand how influencer is a thing. They are basically getting paid by selling you stuff, its a conflict of interest.
What’s the conflict? They have to make you believe they care about you, they don’t actually have any built in interest in your well being
Some have a strong sense of ethics, but those ethics are the only thing from them being a complete shill
Linus just straight up lied about Billet labs resolution. That alone is horrendous behaviour.
While not being directly related it might be worth noting that a former employee of lmg has now come forward on twitter to describe in gory detail the kind of treatment she received while working there. The culture there sounds utterly disgusting and based on their history it is all extremely believable. Link to the post
Really makes me think they need a union. Also makes me wonder what all Linus learned from this guy who “taught me everything about management” if this is his style of management.
Linus is explicitly anti-union. He’s stated on camera that “if you treat your employees well, you don’t need a union.” All this bullshit coming out proves that’s a fuckin’ lie.
This post should be pinned. I went in not liking her because to be she came off on camera as unlikable (giving you this context so you know my mindset going in to the read).
By the end, I was sickened, disgusted and appalled at the treatment she got. I have obviously unsubbed. I was going to wait this out to see how LMG solved this but fuck them. I wish her all the best and as swift a recovery as possible.
The saddest thing is, reading that post, you can tell exactly when she’s quoting linus even when she doesn’t mention him.
Is Madison the one that became popular in the community after being snarky in a video while they were building a new PC for her? I think I remember her getting a job there afterwards. If I remember correctly, she was really funny.
Is there an archive of the chain somewhere? I dont have twitter/x, and it won’t let me see anything other than the main tweet
Thanks!
I think this reddit post has all of it.
Can’t read past the opening tweet without logging into twitter. Could you summarise or link to an article containing the info?
Basically Madison got misled when getting hired, was expected to do way too much work, was verbally and physically sexually abused, and overall just treated like absolute shit. Not to mention that she was belittled when she complained about it
Linus is always dropping shit, and this is no different.
Also, don’t fuck with tech Jesus
It’s looking like Linus should have taken that $100 million offer he got and left when he had the chance.
I get that some people like working, and that business founders can be very emotionally invested in their baby.
But to imagine having $100 million waved in my face and saying “nah, I think I’ll just wake up and go to work tomorrow” is crazy to me. But I guess you can’t be a billionaire if you “settle” for nine figures and an absurdly comfortable life with nothing but free time to find new interests and see the world.
I don’t think he works “traditionally” as he is essentially the sole founder and CEO. He’s the centre piece but it’s not like you’re actually “going to work” but rather building something. That doesn’t make the $100 an escape but more as an offer for someone to take what you built all this time and saying later.
A good analogy is walking your dog, that you cherish, and someone offers to buy him right there.
Even if you like working. Taking those $100 million means you and your family will, for generations not have to worry about work. You can take the money and still work like a madman by either making a new venture or doing charity.
But I guess for some people it’s more about the power than the money.
I can imagine it is his dreamjob, in which case what the heck would money matter?
That is quite likely the main reason he refused.
That company is probably worth way more then that. Or at least could be. So if you’re even remotely prideful, you probably think that’s a slap in the face.
I doubt it is worth way more than that now.
Of course, but the offer was prior to the issues coming out.
I agree with Steve on everything, this was a huge blunder and fail in messaging from Linus. But you are supposed to reach out and ask for comment before running a story. I was a news reporter and have a master’s in public relations.
Edit: Called Linus “Linux”
You ask for a comment regarding an accusation, this wasn’t something to get a comment for, it was the details and evidence itself which is not refutable.
If there was a claim against someone of an event that cannot be shown, you would ask them for their version of events, if the news had a clear video of an irrefutable event they would not require comment for what the video itself would clearly demonstrate.
Steve’s video was demonstrable information through explicit evidence, it wasn’t something that a comment would have shed light to as the only appropriate comment that could be made be a public response.
The content of the video could not have been changed and given what was demonstrated, it did not serve the viewerbase to wait for the response of the larger platform with greater reach.
Linus Tech Tips has the reach needed to be seen by at least as many viewers with their response.
Nope. You call them up and go, “This is happening and we’re running a story. Care to comment?” You should even have a list of questions to ask if they agree. They can give you bullshit answers if they want, then you point those out and add that to the story. It doesn’t have to affect the story. Facts are facts, and they can try to explain it away, but can’t. You’re still holding them accountable. You’re just also giving them a chance to apologize or own up to it. And if they dont’ comment, you include that.
Steve and crew are amazing tech journalists. They’re doing great work. But that’s a miss in this whole thing.
Did you watch the video above? Steve spend some time explaining exactly his thoughts behind not reaching out for comments. I think he argues well.
He said that he ‘aggrees with Steve on everything’, so no, he didn’t watch the video lol.
I did watch the video. And I don’t agree with him. He needs to ask for a comment.
Then the literal first sentence of your first comment was a lie.
Thats how I am used to it as well. There is always more than pure facts. And giving the other side a change explain themselves is a part of it.
That’s a courtesy you can extend, but mostly it’s a protection against libel - if they take you to court about a claim they dispute, being able to say “your honor, we gave them a chance to respond before going public”
In this case, there’s no dispute over facts - they didn’t bring up any accusations, they just took what LTT posted publicly and presented criticisms of it
For example, if you report on the president being accused of misconduct you might ask the white house for comment, but if you are criticizing a speech they made or their public actions you probably wouldn’t (unless you think they’ll give you something that improves the story)
OK, this I can agree with. And in fairness I was never writing about a big, constantly-updated video channel that was continually talking about itself. But it still screams to me there needs to be a chance at letting them respond.
I’m not sure I agree that you have to give a chance to respond - I think context matters.
I think if you make an accusation or cover a specific incident, they should be able to give their context, not out of fairness but as this might give a more accurate view of the truth
In this case, they presented a specific series of events showing a pattern of behavior, and a timeline of communication they made with billet (including their public comments in the subject
What truth could they add here? They could add more details or make excuses, but that waters down the message - the point isn’t “Linus did something bad and made factual mistakes”, it’s “Linus has shown a pattern of doing bad things, and frequently publishes factually incorrect figures”
I think you’re coming at it from a place of “you have to give them a chance to respond out of fairness”, but journalism isn’t about fairness, it’s about distilling an easily consumed message from the endless complicated facts that make up any situation. Journalistic integrity is about making every effort to give a “good take”, and should put accuracy above all
Being fair to the people you’re covering should follow naturally by pursuing the truth, doing the opposite is what we call “softball journalism”
But you are supposed to reach out and ask for a comment before running a story.
In certain cases yes. This is not one. What comment could Linus have given that would contextualize the story in such a way to excuse factual information?
Steve was absolutely vindicated in refusing to ask for comment due to Linus’s behavior. Had he asked for comment, Linus would have contacted Billet prior to the release. Instead, Linus makes a statement that heavily (if not outright) implies that had Steve asked for comment he would have context to know that an agreement had been made between LMG/Linus and Billet Labs before the video dropped. Because Steve did not reach out for comment we now know that this was a lie or an attempt to obfuscate the truth.
If you are extolling factual information you do not owe the subject a comment. If your work could be damaged (see above) by doing so you do not owe the subject a comment. If a person has already commented publicly you do not owe the subject a comment.
Steve reported objectively factual information that cannot be excused with any context. The story that was written at the time would have been damaged had he asked for comment. Linus has a public presence and has made his feelings known about previous scandals before, and his actual response was entirely telegraphed in tone, if not also content, by long time viewers.
There is not some ethics masterclass that would have come to the conclusion that Steve violated journalistic integrity by running this story without comment from Linus. You may not like it, but you’re also not some ethics in journalism arbiter.
I agree it’s generally good practice to ask the subject for comment, and Steve seems to know that because he explains at length why he didn’t here. I criticized him for this when the last video came out, but I thought his explanation in this new video for why he didn’t contact Linus first is pretty good; I’m not sure why you’re being downvoted here, but since you are a former reporter I’d be interested in hearing specifics on why you disagree with it.
Yea, I think that and a few other nitpicky things are the only flaws in GN’s argument. Otherwise, the testing results and Billet’s response speaks for itself. LTT is going too loose and fast and while that’s bad, it’s understandable if you’re a fledging company. That’s all LTT had to point out. And instead of being humble and retrospective they put out this PR nightmare of a response.
I used to be a regular watcher of LTT, but really noticed their latest videos have declined in quality and it’s apparent that they’re just pumping out as much videos as possible.
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A labs employee mouthed off and GN went full scorched earth
Steve actually said in the first video that they didn’t respond at all to the labs’ employee comment.
It was one of the first things shown in the video. I didn’t even know about the comment until watching the GN video.
Context seemed to be “this is what we let slide before, but the gloves are off after this new comment” to demonstrate that they at least showed some restraint.
And the new comment was by Linus himself. Kinda funny how one offhand comment can have such a large impact.
Now I wonder if Linus will embrace the people who love to talk about how much they hate cancel culture. Is there a fascist Linus in this timeline?
Wow. When you’re supposed to wait and hear from both sides and this is what comes… Yikes. Went to check and read the whole response and any other replies that might have come from it on their forum and found ~115 pages (oops 2 more while writing this) of discussion after Linus’ post.
All I want is just good hardware reviews, the rest is noise…
All I want is just good hardware reviews
Same. Seems LTT and Short Circuit is out. As demonstrated, they aren’t a reliable source.
Same, that’s why i never liked that twat
I really only ever followed any tech channels for cool videos and news, reviews are nearly pointless to me until I’m trying to actually buy or recommend something.
But outside of an occasional great video or at least great topic (like the 48kW fan), LMG barely offers anything special in that space anymore, despite still being the biggest outlet. GN has news down pat (along with reviews), Storage Review and STH cover enterprise stuff that Linus has only exceeded once with the million dollar (or whatever it was) setup, and plenty of channels do guides.
So annoying how all good tech channels now lean on drama and sensationalism to get more engagement.
Digital Foundry seems to be the last one where people are level-headed.
I didn’t find this to be overly dramatic or sensationalized. I enjoy knowing when one of the people I regularly watch are in fact assholes. Note, he didn’t say they were assholes. He merely repeated what they did and called out issues. He said he wouldn’t be covering the channel anymore after their response. Just decent journalism in my opinion.
Yea, but ever since Nexus started doing their “investigations”, so much of their content looks like cable news. They now jump on all opportunities to drum up more drama.
How dare Gamer’s Nexus…point out lies and widespread problems at LTT with Nexus backing every claim with evidence. The real issue is reporting on the issues!
Fuck LTT. I stopped watching their content ever since they introduced the “emoting faces” thumbnails. All I say is every time I see tech Jesus these days it’s over some drama, affair and exposé.
Exploding components, fire hazards, evil corporate practices. It often feels that if there is no drama happening, Nexus will go out of their way to make one happen. Just like cable news.
All I say is every time I see tech Jesus these days it’s over some drama, affair and exposé.
Do you know what algorithms are?
Lol ok. As someone that is actually subbed to GN I can tell just by Tech Jesus’s demeanor that he does not enjoy these so called drama videos. He looks happy when reporting actual news and info whereas in the videos where he has to call out people and corps he just looks like he can’t believe he has to do this shit again.
I have not seen the other videos you’re talking about but this one pretty clearly showed both consumers and companies why LTT should be treated with caution and skepticism. I’d say that that’s relevant information beyond just “drama”.
If you’re more concerned with the muckrakers than the muck idk what to tell you
LMG has a lot of issues. Clickbait, and now this.
I hope the new CEO will intervene sooner or later, although a lot of CEOs only exist as de-facto mascots.
I’m not sure the new CEO has any actual power when it comes to reining Linus in.
Yeah, Linus admitted that himself. He still owns the majority, and Yvonne owns the rest. The CEO really can’t actually do anything that Linus doesn’t want, he’s just a figurehead and businessman there to keep Linus from being forced into the office and off the camera.
So a yet another puppet CEO, just like the in Twitter… oh sorry, X.
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Yes, facts are drama, for sure.
They came from a tech journalist forum before doing reviews, covering bad practices in the industry, most notoriously MSI, and Linus being the face of PC hardware with so many inaccuracies is just another topic.
Understandable, but I think many people (including me) are fine with a little drama every once in a while as long as it’s warranted and doesn’t damage the substance of the content. Unnecessary drama can certainly be a problem, but unnecessarily making dramatic things boring is not necessarily the solution.
I can agree with that. It may be that ever since I no longer subscribe to the tech elite (LTT, MKBHD, Nexus, Jays2Cents, etc) - I only come across their content when there is drama!
Linus is tech cancer plain and simple, now more so.
I’ve never understood the appeal of Linus Tech Tips anyway. Anthony was great but Linus is just terrible as a host. “Oh no, Linux sucks because it is not Windows! Oh no I broke the system because I couldn’t read the text on the screen!”
I feel like the point of that video though was to point out how a common user using linux would just make these kind of mistakes which do happen and are legitimate. That’s one of the reasons why I enjoy Linux Mint so much really. Simple to use and not too much of a hassle while also slightly helping you understand some of the easier aspects of Linux.
He’s an idiot. After I saw him installing Linux I was sure about that. What a bozo.
