To everybody saying “reverse racism” or whatever your wording is to imply that buying specifically from black people is problematic, why? Do you think that you would have a hard time finding a white run CSA to buy? This is just a resource for people interested in supporting the black community and frankly I see any form of opposition to it as pretty blatant racism itself. I’ll return from a Google search with what I find for other race specified CSA indexes in a bit.
I’m back,
https://www.queerfarmernetwork.org/
Here’s an LGBTQ farm share directory. Is it reverse bigotry to purchase from them? I had to play with search terms a bit but a combination of CSA, farm share, agriculture share, and your chosen identifier should produce you results.
I am genuinely looking for an answer because I’m fucking baffled by this thread.
Some sort of brigading going on here, lots of comments with almost identical wording.
buying specifically from black people is problematic, why?
The problem isn’t that buying from black people is a problem, the problem is that it’s trying to be a selling argument, and that’s just stupid. Are the vegetables of a black farmer better than of a white farmer? Do queer farmers make better cheese than straight farmers? I somehow doubt it. In the end, it’s a matter of skill and you can have that regardless of your sexuality or skin color.
I’m seriously wondering how you ever expect something like “inclusion” to happen when you’re the ones that keep treating the groups you’re trying to include differently.
It’s about supporting marginalized people if one chooses to. If one chooses not to, they can just move one without comment. I’m just confused because it seems so simple and the only answer to me is deep seated, potentially non intentional racism.
The problem is that it’s a fundamentally good idea to support your local farmers and businesses, but you’re artificially injecting the race card yet again instead of just ignoring the skin color for once. It’s someone who sells you carrots and potatoes, why care about the race? Why support especially a black farmer? There’s no reason for it tbh - support your local business.
the only answer to me is deep seated, potentially non intentional racism.
Must be tough to try your hardest to see racism everywhere you go.
Why are Americans so obsessed with skin colour
It’s a nation founded on racism and the back of race based slavery. That shit doesn’t disappear overnight, unfortunately.
Buying something because it goes to a certain skin colour promotes racism CMV
Yeah that’s not how it works.
CMV
Nah I’m good.
Which is a downstream effect of the racism the nation was founded on? Crazy right?
The most impactful racism, that is also the hardest to fix, is systemic racism. I think the idea behind buying from black owned businesses is the individuals attempt to offset the systemic racism that they, individually, can do very little about.
Don’t cut yourself on all that edge before you graduate highschool kid.
it is still much more difficult for people of color to become professionally successful than it is for white people. That’s a fact. There are still laws in place (and not nearly enough protections), which disproportionately harm POC.
Do they not deserve to be just as successful? To follow their dreams? To be able to support themselves and their families?
Knowing this, why wouldn’t you seek out black-owned business to help counter systemic racism? Those in power in the US, at least, aren’t going to do it. This is by their design.
I care about the well-being of everyone (well, minus the 1% and Nazis), but those who continue to be harmed by a system—that I directly benefit from as a white person—simply require more attention if we’re ever going to have an equitable society.
It’s a bit sad that it’s just the “black farmers”. If possible, getting your stuff from a local market or even a farmer is always a good thing, no matter if it’s a black or white farmer. I have that here in austria where I get most of my meat and cheese directly from the farmer and it’s not just insanely tasty but also cheaper than from the grocery store.
Strong communities thrive together.
I rather not give people money by merit of the colour of their skin, though. Fuck me, right?
No one said fuck you lol
Yeah, that’s not what’s happening.
But keep playing the victim.
The fact that it’s cheaper for you and they get paid more than the middle man would pay should be enough for you.
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Ex-fucking-cuse me?
That’s on point for him. He’s as racist as the day is long.
I imagine his username is supposed to be ironic.
No, I’m positive it’s literal, just like a college girl that says the same thing.
It’s cool, but buying produce from your neighbors is also cool. Strong communities thrive together
It’s cool, but buying produce from your neighbors is also cool.
Um… My neighbors are black you fucking prick.
Why do they have to be black? America is bizarrely obsessed with race, I’ve never seen anything like it both in person and on the internet.
Because they still get shut out of opportunities based solely on their skin color, names, and application photos. So they work together to create their own opportunities and are rightfully proud of that. America can stop worrying about race when we finally end racism.
Do you have a recent example of someone who was denied an opportunity, that is afforded to everyone, based solely on their race?
2024 hiring link, PDF Warning, EDU domain
The studies go on and on. The sheet brigade may not march in your town anymore but they’re still in positions of power pushing down on minorities.
Good resources and sharing.
I appreciate what you’ve done in the comments of this post.
I didn’t doubt it’s still happening somewhere; just curious how wide spread it is. I read the third link. It was interesting. I wasn’t aware the Justice department spent almost 2.5 years going after lenders.
And the work still isn’t done. This is happening all over the country.
Do you ever stop to consider that it may be exactly because of your obsession with the skin tone of people, that you have so much racism?
Try imagining being just as obsessed about eye colors. It seems ridiculous right?
It does seem ridiculous to me but I’m not racist and we tried that. In the 1980’s and 1990’s they made talking about race a social taboo. You just didn’t talk about it. The only effect was to freeze racism in place while white people congratulated themselves on solving it because they didn’t hear about it anymore.
So it turns out that in order to fight racism you have to talk about it and give financial support to the class that’s been oppressed.
You get out of here you SOCIALIST. How dare you suggest we even the playing field for the people who we took opportunities away from for hundreds of years!
I know right? What’s next, paying the kids we feed to the machines?
It’s because America is obsessed with race, and has systematically attempted to demolish black economic power from the foundation of the society, that people may choose to shop this way.
Yeah sure, but you’re just perpetuating. It should just be ‘buy from local American farmers’, race shouldn’t be a thing.
Intentionally buying from black owned businesses does not perpetuate a racist white man that is in a position of power that allows him to deny black people economic power.
No, but your mentality perpetuates segregation
Fighting racism with more racism.
This is why im gonna teach my future kids to bully white kids like I was, they need to understand /s I got them sent to juvie that was good enough for me lol, fight racism with the law, give them a criminal record and get them thrown out of school, way more satisfying
For context so mfs dont defend my old bullies they were 5 years older, would surround me and call me a terrorist (I was in 3rd grade) They eventually escalated and spat on my grandpa when he noticed them fking with me, he chased them and fell, and cops got called. They did this shit for like a month before anyone noticed, I was scared theyd actually beat me up if I told my parents. It was 5 white teens and one indian me, Idk any white kids that had to deal with that shit, I was being called a terrorist before I knew what it was.
That sucks man. But there are definitely white kids who got bullied badly, they just don’t have the racism angle. I’m glad someone noticed it was happening to you. I went 5 years actively being bullied by the same kids and the schools decided it was my fault so they didn’t even try to punish the bullies. They actually punished me for getting hit, even when I did nothing but curl into a ball, that was inciting them and grounds for detention. The school told my parents I was on drugs and made them get me tested. When I did do well academically I was accused of cheating and given artificially lower grades. The teachers made no secret of blaming me for being abused, I was routinely lectured for whatever other students did to me.
What was my crime? I did two years in a special education school because my hearing was impaired when I was younger. That was enough to brand me as chum in the shark tank for the next 5 years and an outcast for the next decade. And the only reason they stopped hitting me was because I grew enough muscles to make them hurt too.
like no ones gonna tell yall to go back to your own country typically, like I was born 2 miles away bitch this is my country
Yeah, im not saying no one else got bullied, mine was based around my race tho I had no choice in it, just post 9/11 america lol (you didnt have a choice either obv, but the argument is typically you cant be racist to white ppl or they dont face it the same way we do, ppl are still shitty for plenty of other reasons)
Yeah, racism sucks. I think I just felt like you were saying we couldn’t have it bad but that’s not rational and reading your comment back it’s not what you were saying. There’s very few places white people are going to face racism in America and a lot of white people don’t realize that.
I would prefer knowing my money is going to people who have been systematically disadvantaged for this nation’s entire history.
I suppose your post could imply other minorities could be included but the way I read your comment gives off big WLM energy.
Edit: spelling
Yeah and I understand your thought process. However the entire point is to skip large corporations and buy food from local farmers. Again, why do they have to be black? Coming from a country not obsessed with race, the very mention of race prior to a product or service, seems strange and segregating in itself.
Race should just be taken out of it, support your farmers. That is my point.
And fuck off with the white lives matter shit. I would say the same shit to white farmers, Latino farmers etc. Race+service = bizarre.
Dude this is discrimination also. It’s like why do I have to pay for things that my gparents have done? This brings me to other questions such as how long do you will be “systematically disadvantaged”? I have seen those cases with my eyes: Afro has their college fees paid and they got paid for studying. he/her reproved. Do state retired the help? NO. They just had a talk with he/her and keep with aid. Meanwhile my mixed friend had to put gmother home as warrant to get a loan in order to pay the stupid college. I got enough of it.
Because they were kept poor, imprisoned, and abused until at least 1965. So the kids born in the 1950’s had the first real chance to go to college. In reality though red lining continued right up into the 1980’s, making sure black people couldn’t get access to services and jobs because they were physically out of reach from the housing areas they had been pushed into decades prior. And job hiring racism still occurs to this day. It was in the 2010’s they did a study with applications that differed only by having an “ethnic” name or a “white” name.
So until black people can access the same opportunities as white people there needs to be support. Everyone wants to assume this shit ended in 1865 or 1965 but not only did it not, it’s still going on.
So why do I have to pay what my ggparents have done to black people? I don’t think it works like this. My friend is a good example of discrimination also.
The victim complex of so many white people is truly fucking wild.
Are you not already buying food anyway? No one is forcing you to do anything. But people are going to call you out for being so uninterested having an equitable society.
What are you paying for? Is someone forcing you to pay thousands of dollars a year to fund a scholarship or something?
And the reason they get help is because your parent’s actions (not your grand parents) prevented black people your age from getting the same opportunities you got.
Guy said he wanted to help people so have been and still are supposed and you took that as discrimination? I guess if we don’t help everyone all at once we shouldn’t help anyone?
No, my point is what criteria are using to help? I feel it should be used not because you are black. For me should be done in meritocratic order: First the extremely poor yet good students, second the poor yet good students, third excellent students ON ANY ECONOMIC SITUATION. Not because black or LGBT or because you are women…
And this would be a great approach if systemic racism didn’t exist.
Everyone isn’t treated the same, so helping them the same leaves people behind.
Nobody alive has lived through this nation’s entire history
NorthEast Florida has: https://www.melanatedgrowersinc.com/
the democrats have built their entire brand around performative racial justice where everything they do is designed to appeal to different groups. Its super toxic and while I am vehemently anti-racist this tokenization of policy is counter productive and the reason why a lot of people reject the democrats as “racist”
Bro, the US wins world champions in racism. There are ethno-nationalists in India that think Americans take it too far.
It’s also important to note that POC, black people or melenated people (take your pick - i.e Pakistani and some Indians are PoC) are not exempt from being racist.
In fact, if you suffer racism there’s a chance you’ll then turn racist, because it triggers pack instinct, paranoia, group think - etc. Humans gonna hume. “You’re claiming reverse racism” - bitch, did I stutter? Racism is racism is racism is racism.
That being said, zoning laws are still CRT based and some neighbourhoods in the US only get the most basic super markets - if even that.
“All I see is church, church, liquor store” - Black Milk.
If black people need access to raw produce in areas they can’t get access to it, then I think it’s completely acceptable. Sad, but acceptable.
I could also see a bunch of Karens buying out the stock so that they can brag that they eat “black produce”, effective depriving black children of proper produce.
To err is human, and also be awful is human, and also racism… is human, and also (say it with me now):
Humana gonna hume. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I think this is downvoted because people don’t realize the face of modern racism.
Naw, it’s probably because they define racism as actual systemic oppression and not the psychology behind racism - which is dumb, because the latter leads to the former.
But it’s also a question of yankie ire. - i.e the Ugly American. No lie, you’ll meet Africans who have the darkest skin who say they aren’t black or identify as black, simply because they don’t want it to override, generalize and trivialise their own people group’s unique identity and culture.
Then some yankie fuck will lose their ever loving mind and call it racist because they won’t placate to either Pan-Africanism, black nationalism or black erhno-nationalism, as if that’s somehow positive, even though white nationalism isn’t, nor is Pan-Europeanism… the last point I added, because FUCK off if you can me Mediterranean.
Like boy, are you calling me french? Bitch, I’m Nordic. Me and Habibi will slap the shit out of you with a muttom kebab for making that comparison. Like we still have honor and pride in adoption and there are plenty of melanated Nordics today because of it, while yankies have adoption auctions?
Like my brother in Christ, what even is this vile act? Your selling kids like vintage furniture? Are you sick in the head? “Oh, but that’s a white people thing”… again, I’m not fucking wHite then, am I? Because that shit would be fucking dishonourable to my people. Sometimes there are adoption scandals and it hits national news… but sanctioned, legal adoption auctions? Wtf.
People also immigrate, which is fine, since you want people to have the freedom to migrate. Can’t have it one way and not the other. And besides, I love my countrymen, of all shapes, sizes and hue of skin, and I damn sure don’t identify as wHite, because that’s how they got the circus over the pond going completely Texas.
Somehow it seems Americans just wanna make everything pink slime. You need to be put into the people group grinder so that you conform to your identity blob. You shall be pigeon holed, you shall be boxed in, you shall be stereotyped.
Honestly though, I’m racist against yankies - or I’m turning racist against yankies. I’m getting so sick and tired of their bullshit, brainrot, CRT and broad generalizations.
Build the wall - keep those fuckers in.
((And they say irony is dead - you can down vote this dick))
Americans always think they have the market cornered on everything. As if slavery and racism didn’t exist until the 18th century.
Right? Gah!
I still love how everyone acts like America is the only racist country on the planet.
TIL posting/having conversations about a characteristic of one country implies that you believe that no other countries have that same characteristic.
While I’m sure the fact that the dominance of US news and culture on the internet is probably really frustrating for non-Americans, it’s pretty natural for Americans (or anyone, really) to talk about our own country and experiences… especially while having to grapple with how things have been escalating here. You’re certainly free to share your own experiences.
Can’t say I’ve ever seen people do that
We wanted to pretend it was ending ourselves until 2016.
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Or ask a European about their feelings on gypsies and watch them pull out some of the darkest shit you’ve ever heard.
While the EU acts more like one country than the US we are not a single country. So it vastly differentiates from country to country.
Asking people about gypsies will either bring out the worst or they will correct you and say that calling them Gypsies is like calling a black person Niger. Romani is the preferred term btw.
What’s really fun is that “gypsys” can refer to two entirely different groups of people, both hated out of pure bigotry.
I was originally gonna say Romani but then I remembered this very detail.
Europe is honestly just as if not more racist than the US
Depends ofc where you look, what country etc. And if you count people living here who themselves don’t count themselves as an European
We just emigrated to the UK and my daughter is having trouble finding friends… she finally met a kid her age and the kid told her that the N-word isn’t offensive in the UK.
Fucking what? (Yes, I know it is just as offensive here.)
And we lived in Indiana, the Middle Finger of the South, where the KKK was re-formed in the 1920s.
So now she has to start all over again finding friends. She was pretty upset and I don’t blame her.
As long as they aren’t assholes idc, I have had white/white-ish (if you consider Spain generally white, which some do and some don’t lmao) “friends” that are way worse than gypsies or moroccans (which are other ones that are mentioned often).
I’m not entirely sure, what you’re advocating for.
There are Turkish supermarkets, restaurants, döner stalls, and barbers all over the place.
I also know a Turkish electrician, but I’ll go to him when I need an electrician, not when I need a Turk.
Sure, it can seem on the surface like wanting to support people of a particular race is in itself a kind of racism, or at least a situation that emphasizes unfair distinctions.
Unfortunately, race does still matter in America, even if we personally disagree with it or want to ignore it. The health and economic research data make it very clear that people of color in America, especially black people, experience harder lives in almost every category. This is due to both recurring experiences of present-day prejudice and discrimination, as well the inter-generational impacts of wealth inequality and psychological trauma.
You might already know about this, but redlining is one example of the way that patterns of discrimination can creates a systemic effect, which, in turn, can impact the physical and financial effects on a family across time. These kinds of systemic effects can then make it harder for current generations of these families to recover and live safe lives today though, we personally might celebrate that the policy doesn’t exist anymore, and even though we personally might say that we don’t support people acting like that anymore.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Redlining
No one really has to do anything, but some people might choose to support groups of people or organizations who they think might have experienced similar kinds of hardships in their families, and might be glad to have a way to try to do something different with their money than give it to another multinational corporation every time.
Yeah I’ve heard these arguments. I still hold my opinion. America needs to move away from the race obsession.
Completely fair - do you have a counterargument? I’d be interested in hearing the other side.
Constantly talking about race makes race a topical issue.
If racism still exists race still needs to be talked about…
Right. Its going so well for you guys so far, remind me again which breed of nazis are in power, and whicj programs they are focusing on destroying?
So you are going to act like everyone in America is the exact same. With the same views? Did you miss the election where roughly half of the country didn’t want this or are you just lashing out because your stance was questioned.
As in
- Not talking about race will solve the lingering systemic race issues, or
- There are no lingering systemic race issues, so we should stop talking about it?
Not OP, but keep seeing the world as if it is “us vs them” or “black vs white” or “right vs left” or “rich vs poor” will not help find common ground and compromises. There is no compromise for racism, but people putting more attention on it will only promote looking at the situation in a way where the difference matters.
Oh no the US is a shitshow of systemic racism, like super ridiculous on every level. There is such a wild undercurrent, surface levek and then an even weirder like super liminal racism where it just has to be mentioned.
Watch like any late night and they will make a self depricating white person joke, middle aged white guy thing. Just stfu about all of it, address the systemic issues with actual actions and then just you know…live as neighbours as americans.
So the US is a shitshow of systemic racism but you want everyone to stop talking about race? Sounds like a way to never fix the problem.
Well b is definitely false, so I’m hoping they meant a
Right but as far as I understand it the supermarkets and wholesalers screw all farmers over equally race isn’t a consideration.
This is like, 50% the value of pissing off people in power.
Because uh… Orange man hates black people or something…
Just don’t buy meat directly - especially if you are hungry for bat and live in China.
Timely!
This is great. Is there something similar for finding local farms regardless of race?
You could try researching CSAs in your area. There are a few near me that sell farm shares with weekly pickup of seasonal veggies during harvest season. I’m in northern California, and our rate is under $20 per week after we split it with another couple. We usually receive more veggies than we would buy during a weekly grocery store trip, plus our farm let’s everyone pick fresh bouquets each pickup as a nice bonus.
CSA huh
Yup, stands for community supported agriculture. They’re often called co-ops or farm shares, but I think CSA is the industry term that you’ll have most luck with when searching around online.
I’d love to learn more about the ones in NorCal. I’m in the peninsula.
Farm co-ops I think focus on local farms.
Depending on your location, try heading to your local “ethnic” neighborhood produce shops and price check those.
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I’ve gone to farmer’s markets and although the stuff is good, some of it is pricey. There are stuff like lettuce and stuff that are cheaper but most of stuff like berries and fruits are more expensive.
It’s more expensive indeed, but I’ve found the quality is much better.
Definitely. 100% would rather buy from a farmer’s market than a big name store. Also, around my area, the big farmer’s markets are located in affluent areas
The market in my town delivers to my workplace every week. I order from them first, then supplement everything else from the grocery store.
yeah unfortunately small or independent farmers simply can’t ever compete with factory farms.
But on the bright side, that money (usually) goes right back into your local economy, instead of lining the pockets of some rich asshole from five states away who has a chain of grocery stores.
It does, as long as those farmers are giving back and trickling it down, sort to speak. It isn’t the case for everyone, try not to buy from assholes if you can.
In Taiwan, we had “day markets” where local farmers and fishers sell produce directly to you from the previous day’s harvest. Every city has at least a few dozen day markets as well. It really serves the community and not big corps.
Some veggies still have live bugs(ladybugs) on it. That’s how fresh it is.
It also cost 1/4 the cost in a corporate grocery store.
We (the US) have farmers markets in a lot of places. They can have very specific times that I always forget about. Around here in the northern climate, the farmer markets stop during the winter or move indoors and shift to selling more jarred and canned goods. My neighborhood has a coop, but it’s more expensive than the grocery store and with a worse selection. We have options here, but they require more thoughtfulness.
That was a culture shock for me when I moved to the US. I knew that back in the day, in rural areas of my country, the markets only opened once a week. I was shocked to find that happen in urban/suburban areas in the US. Back home I could just go to the closest market any day. Morning news would have a report comparing prices in different markets across the city, so you could pick the one that has the best price for what you need that day.
Finding a farm close where you want is made unnecessarily difficult by the site’s interface. The grouping of states in regions is a hindrance and once you get to your state, the farms can’t be sorted other than by their name, so you have to look through every single one of them to find the farms close to you.
Great idea, terrible execution.
But probably not a difficult fix. Websites can be updated.
Which is why I’m providing feedback. I really want this to work.
I don’t see a contact part on the website, but they do have Facebook, instagram and Twitter (X), those would probably be the best places to provide the feedback. And maybe you can add a message when donating?
I’m not not on fascist platforms but thank you for following up with options.
Who are you providing it to? Because I don’t think FlyingSquid made this website.
The great wide web. I don’t think it’s him either, but this is the channel I found.
People who produce bad design like that, are often resistant to change.
Or they’re inexperienced and don’t know any better.
Or they might welcome assistance from someone who knows how to do it, since their expertise is in farming and they don’t have a lot of money for web design. Such assistance could possibly qualify as a tax-deductible donation.
As a software developer making enterprise software, that simply isn’t true.
I have been responsible for making some pretty poor design choices and UX flows. I was never resistant to change and more just needed someone to say hey bro that’s dumb, I don’t why don’t we do it like this.
Now I know how to do X and won’t make the same mistakes again.
I’ve worked in IT for over 30 years. I have come across a lot of people who design terrible UIs and get all pissy when you suggest any improvements. I didn’t in any way want to imply that everybody is like that.
Thanks for coming back to reply. First I want to say that the downvotes you’ve received have been unnecessary imo and I think I should have added that my original comment was in my experience and purely anecdotal.
I guess it all depends on the person and whether they see constructive criticism as… well constructive or whether they see it as a slight against them. Like in any industry really.
it’s offended developers who have been forced to make awful UX/UI for sure. i had to change mine back to an upvote :)
I second this - though I agree that it definitely isn’t universal. Especially given that I’m exactly the opposite - I welcome critique and improvements to anything I write because I love learning and improving.
If they are, you can probably make a better site, that adds the feature you’re missing and can link to results on theirs.
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Cmd-F or Ctrl-F to search for cities. It’s imperfect, but I found seven hits for my city instantly. I could search neighboring cities and towns the same way.
To add to this comment, it’s not hard to find any of this information. “States grouped into areas” scroll to find your state, or again ctrl+f. “Hard to find cities” thankfully living in my area and being somewhat familiar with said area I can scroll down the list and find farmers in my general area. Short of putting in my address and searching for ‘closest to’ which I hate anyway, this isn’t as bad an interface as op suggests.
I’m still going to say it’s just not great design; it presents you a large map that is not interactable in any way, then below that are bits of that map again with ordinary hyperlinks below for each state and/or region. Just let people click on the first map, or just ditch it entirely.
Once you’ve clicked on a state, you get a list of paragraph format entries sorted in the most useless way: alphabetically by business name.
Who is this website for?
I agree whole heartedly, it could be done better. I’m just saying it isn’t complete garbage and if a little confusing still usable.
It’s for the creator of the website, so they can virtue signal while producing something of dubious quality. Most of these farms are already discover-able on better, more comprehensive indexes.
Name one?
That assumes you know all the place names of the region where you’re at. Someone that moved recently and/or lives in a tristate area (all of which are in different state regions in my case according to that map) is just faced with a very hostile design.
at least you have something my state doesn’t even have anything lmao, it goes to a boilerplate page that gives little info
My state (big ag state) has a whopping 3 and 2 of those are hemp. The one that isn’t just hemp doesn’t have an area listed, just the state.
I mean I’m glad there are any… but yeah, not a super great resource for some areas lol
“Can” cost less is doing a lot of work there. I would guess it would mildly annoy people in power, but TBH this isn’t a way to save money. If it really was, it would be common practice already.
There are lots of people who frequent local / smaller farms for things like access to organic foods / rarer crops / community support, but I’ve never known it to be cheaper than the industrial produce one can get at your nearest supermarket. Supermarkets clobbered local guys for a reason and pricing was a huge part of that.
My guess is it costs a lot more to ship small parcels of food rather than to transport food in bulk to one big store where everyone shops for it.
It would cost less for them to ship in bulk. It costs even less for them to charge you shipping and it’s low enough for you that it’s still cheaper than the profit cut of the distributor and grocery store.
I would guess it would mildly annoy people in power, but TBH this isn’t a way to save money. If it really was, it would be common practice already.
Bidets are a cheaper, well known, better way to clean your asshole after taking a shit, yet the common practice of Americans is still to choose to smear their own shit around their asshole with dry disposable paper cloths.
The flaw in your argument is that you think people, Americans at that, wouldn’t ignorantly continue to pay more for the convenience of not having to think where to buy their produce, because they can get it from the local Walmart 15 minutes away, instead of saving $20+ and driving 2 more minutes.
Americans are notoriously lazy and stupid, as evidenced this past November.
Bidets aren’t common in a whole lot of countries. Heck there are probably more countries where a bidet is uncommon than common.
The crab speaks a deep truth.
Holy shit…your thoughts on bidets are spot on…I just got one and hate not having it all the time due to travel.
-am American but want nothing to do with this hateful bullshit going on currently
I got one cause of how my friend put it to me when she told me to get one. She asked me “if you get shit on your hand, are you just gonna wipe it off with a paper towel and go about your day, or are you gonna wash your hands? Now when you take a crap, why are you just smearing it around instead of washing it?” And it stuck with me and I’ve bought bidets from then on out. A 12 pack of TP lasts me a year, and I only use it to dry my ass. It’s the best thing in the world.
I laughed at friends and family during covid, cause I had a nice clean ass, and everyone else was fighting for toilet paper.
Can’t speak to the cost, just found my local place and their FB link is offline.
a way to save money. If it really was, it would be common practice already.
I cannot overstate how dumb Americans are about shopping. The local Publix (expensive) just put the Winn Dixie (medium prices) out of business, because the Publix is newer and prettier.
Meanwhile, there are 8 other groceries that are cheaper than either. Even the Aldi isn’t busy.
Been in a few big box stores lately, prices stunned me. “People pay for this shit?!” Dude on here posted his fish tank purchase. Spent loads buying: little rocks, sticks, big rocks. I just decorated a terrarium for nearly free.
I buy almost nothing new, hell, I find a lot of my stuff. We had to get a new washer and fridge last year, paid $400 for both off FB Marketplace, nicest I’ve ever had in life, minimum $2,200 at the hardware store. Not going to listen to Americans whine about high prices when they’re complicit.
Apologies, you triggered my Rant Card.
As a fellow American, I can simplify this (Americanize it) even further.
I cannot overstate how dumb Americans are
about shopping.Apologies, I’m just pissed off in general about my country, as I’m sure you are too.
American here. I love finding a good deal. My ex-wife, however, was put-off about buying used, she was more worried about how others saw her than actually saving money.
I’d pay more just to cut out corps.
My buddy’s sister is a cheese monger. 10/10
Lots of deadlinks and farming alliances with mission statements.
Not a lot of links to buy food from farmers.
Yeah, this isn’t being maintained. All the ones near me are dead websites.
My local link was dead but easy enough to find on FB. I’m going to drop by when I’m in town, see what they got.
Just Google “CSA <your city>”
How is this not racist? If there were a service where you could choose to buy directly from white farmers peoples would lose their minds
There is a service to buy directly from white farmers. There’s a bunch of them, including just going to the grocery store.
Because on their eyes black people can’t be racist. They haven’t seen the great example of Israel.
Because, on average, black people are more economically disadvantaged than white people.
Choosing to explicitly buy from black farmers will, on average, tend to support those with the least financial means out of the general population of farmers, whereas choosing to explicitly buy from white farmers will, on average, tend to support those who are already more financially advantaged.
One side is directly choosing to help those most likely to be economically disadvantaged, the other would be explicitly ignoring those with the least means in order to help those who already have the most, thus the situations are not quite comparable.
I personally would prefer an index that directly assessed farmers based on overall wealth to determine who you should buy from, but because that’s extraordinarily difficult to constantly update & maintain, verify, etc, it can just be easier to divide among racial lines since that still tends to produce a grouping that is relatively similar.
This is the fucking worst argument. To reduce people as stats is the worse.
Should we just stop using statistics then? Numbers don’t matter if they are about people? (I genuinely want an answer here. Should we?)
Statistically, one societal class of people needs more support than the other to have the exact same quality of life, generational wealth, and opportunities. Thus, when deciding who to buy, in this case, produce from, it simply makes sense to purchase from the group most disadvantaged, until their disadvantage is no bigger than the other group, and we can then switch from buying from “small black farmers directly” to “all small farmers directly,” because all of them would then need a near identical level of support, financially speaking, to get the same outcomes.
But in the process you will discriminate another groups.
Group A is historically not discriminated against, and now on average, has a net worth of $100,000.
Group B is historically discriminated against, and now on average, has a net worth of $80,000.
In both groups, some will own more or less than the average, but the largest number of poorer individuals reside in Group B, because the average is lower.
On a per person basis, everyone has $20,000 to spend. Should they give it:
- Exclusively to Group A? (and “discriminate” against Group B, but raise their average net worth to $120,000)
- Exclusively to Group B? (and “discriminate” against Group A, but raise their average net worth to $100,000)
- Split evenly between the two? (bringing Group A’s average to $110,000, and Group B’s average to $90,000)
Which option is most likely to uplift the most poor people to a less poor status?
This is why your argument of “discrimination” doesn’t hold up. The choice to make a purchase from Group A while ignoring Group B only entrenches existing wealth disparities. The choice to make a purchase from both evenly keeps the wealth disparity where it is. The choice to buy exclusively from Group B eliminates the disparity.
This decision is not being made because of race on its own, it is being made because of the common socioeconomic context within which people of color often reside. If white people were the ones who had a history of economic discrimination, even if all other actions regarding past and current racism remained equal, then economically supporting the white farmers specifically would make the most sense, because they would be most economically disadvantaged.
You cannot have a meritocracy when people start on uneven ground, and there is a very demonstrable difference in existing generational wealth between the races, as a direct consequence of past injustices. The way we fix that as individuals, and as a society, is by doing what we can to elevate groups experiencing a disparity until they no longer do.
If the concern is economic disadvantages, shouldn’t the selectivity be based on income and net worth instead of skin color? Maybe selling products from poor and independent farmers. A portion of every race is economically disadvantaged.
Edit: I really appreciate your response. I think you described the issue really well.
shouldn’t the selectivity be based on income and net worth instead of skin color?
We should already be taxing proportional to income, and in the 60s when Affirmative Action was implemented, we were.
But the problem isn’t just that there is a lower class at all, the problem is that the lower class is disproportionately filled with black people and minorities as a direct result of racism.
If you think of it like a footrace, we ran the first half of the race giving black people a straight up disadvantage for no other reason than the color of their skin. Now most of the people in the back of the pack are black. We should already be helping all people in back to catch up to the rest of the pack, but this still means black people are disproportionately in the back as a direct result of that initial disadvantage. We could ignore it, and say that after another 300-400 years of equality, maybe things will even out on their own, but in the meantime you have a bunch of people who are living in poverty and dying, and we can scientifically say for an absolute fact that it’s a direct result of historical disadvantages targeting their ancestors based on race.
It’s inhumane to look those people in the eye and say, “tough luck, we’d help, but we decided we don’t do racism anymore.”
So by buying milk from black farmers, you will help:
- many poor black people
- some rich black people
Whereas by buying milk from poor farmers, you will help:
- many poor black people
- some poor white people
How exactly is the former better than the latter?
Both are good. Each behaviour is a response to a different problem. Refer again to my footrace analogy.
How is this meme relevant here? Who are the groups of people supposed to represent?
Black farmers weren’t welcome in white corporations and co-ops. So they made their own. And now white people are mad.
Well why do you think it is? Genuinely curious
Because racism is the discrimination of someone based on their ethnicity. If you are choosing one person over another due solely to their ethnicity, isn’t that discrimination? Shouldn’t people be judged not by the color of their skin? Explicitly advertising that you are selective solely based on race is racism.
I have seen this discussion happen over and over again and a big part of the misunderstanding is some people in the US have the definition of racism also involving power and some don’t. If your definition is the former, it’s what allows people to say “Fuck white people” isn’t racist with a straight face. Before you ask someone if something is racist, ask them what they think racism is. It will save a lot of time and aggravation for everyone.
It doesn’t matter what their definition of racism is. “Fuck white people” is racist.
To be clear, I’m 100% with you, just pointing out some troubles I had when discussing racism in the past and I found out we weren’t all on the same page.
Some white people have no power and some black people have loads of it. Can we just stop this categorization of people by race for if they can or can’t do something?
They can’t. A lot of these movements are only system tools to maintain us controlled. Another great example is LGBT, tons of big tech and corpo uses LGBT flags on their slogans making it effectively a good shield against critics, but LGBT seem to feel okay to be used like that. The same in feminism also. feminist politicians uses them to get votes and reach political positions, then finance very weird seminars, courses, etc. To promote “healthy masculinism models”. It’s like when pope talks about “traditional family” what the hell pope, a celibate and unmarried man knows about having a family?, what the hell women knows about how to be a man? BECAUSE ALL OF THEM ARE ONLY TOOLS THAT OLIGARCHS USES TO KEEP US OCCUPIED.
Your comment made me think of this:
This is a remedial question, but that doesn’t make it a bad question. It is a hard problem to solve, and calling an advantage based on race somehow not racist does sound paradoxical at first glance. It’s important to be able to entertain the explanation without outright assuming you’re being attacked by a bunch of obtuse racists.
Hopefully we agree that:
- black americans are at a statistically significant socioeconomic disadvantage compared to white americans, both historically and to this day, and
- this is a direct result of a history of systematic disadvantages specifically targeting them based on their race
Let’s pretend the second bullet point has been solved, that systemic racism is over and done, and we’ve established a perfectly equal union. Even if that’s the case, we are left with the first bullet point as an ongoing problem. The challenge is now, how do you undo the very apparent damage that our history of racism caused, without specifically giving advantages to that group based on their race? And the short answer to a very complex question is: you can’t.
So the US government instituted “Affirmative Action” the goal of which was to deliberately give a targeted advantage to people who have had a history of targeted disadvantages in this country. This catches you up to roughly the 1960s.
But in the last 40 years or so, we continue to see lower class areas of the US disproportionately filled with black americans, and we also see widening wealth inequality affecting virtually everyone. So naturally we also see an increase of non-black people asking the same question as you: “I’m having a hard time too, why are they getting an advantage based on their race? That’s racism!”
The solution was to tax the rich, reduce wealth inequality, and continue to normalize disproportionate demographics. Instead, the wealthy used populism to hijack the republican party, and convince white americans that the minorities recieving these benefits were their enemy. And after 40ish years of pushing this narrative, they succeeded.
With the republican takeover of the federal govt, we can be virtually assured that any ongoing attempts to normalize these unfair demographics will be abandoned, at least at the federal level.
But it’s still a problem, just now one for the people and the states to solve. If you want to support black-owned farmers in an attempt to help pull historically disadvantaged groups out of poverty, you can. If not, that’s fine, just at least please vote for legislation that intends to reduce wealth inequality. (Note that history has exactly two ways of reducing wealth inequality: high taxes on the rich, or war. The question isn’t whether wealth will get redistributed, it’s how).
Tl; dr Yeah, it’s an advantage based on race to solve a problem caused by a history of disadvantages based on race.
Lol. Lmao.
