- cross-posted to:
- shoplifting@slrpnk.net
- cross-posted to:
- shoplifting@slrpnk.net
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My (unpopular?) solution is to make sure the rest of society isn’t so desperate for food that they’re willing to rob a robot.
In an unrelated suggestion, if youre in a grocery store and see someone stealing food, no you didn’t.
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Preach. Harsh penalties with no rehabilitation and an uncaring system with no safety net?
If you can’t get a job and can’t eat without a job, who wouldn’t do crime?
And in so doing, they have a criminal record that makes it harder to get jobs, leading to a vicious cycle where they’re not employed due to a criminal record/recent imprisonment, and are forced to steal to survive, leading to another criminal record, etc.
No, most crime is due to a personal failure. Play stupid games - win stupid prizes.
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Which poorest people? Poor countries are not criminal outposts. That’s a myth that wealth correlates with crime.
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These studies are irrelevant as they don’t cover crime worldwide. They are just taking bull crap out of their ass.
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“Jimmy’s biggest personal failure was not being able to take advantage of generational wealth. His second biggest personal failure was choosing to steal food for himself, his wife, and kids, instead of choosing to die and let his family risk dying from starvation. His third biggest personal failure was having kids in the first place.”
Idk, it has a bit of a hollow ring to it. What do you think?
As someone who works in a grocery store, most of the people I see stealing are stealing stuff like makeup or drinks and junk food, not necessities. And our regular thieves spend hundreds on cigarettes a week, while still stealing whatever they want because they know they’ll get away with it.
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Yeah, the cigarettes thing is a literal drug issue. The only thing that’s different between that a fentanyl is the smokes are not criminalized.
We can’t expect our thieves and impoverished to be exactly rational and raid the staples, especially as we’ve engineered junk food to appeal to impulsivity.
As for makeup I don’t have an easy explanation, though makeup is expensive and currently we do expect people to wear it rather than get accustomed to what folks look like without it. I was going to guess it’s fungible, but less so than brand-name laundry detergent. Tide is currency in the underground market.
But yes, while for young people there might be a thrill in the act of stealing over buying, ultimately, when we have the capacity to fulfill our needs without careful budgeting and compromise, we’re glad to do things transactionally. Professional thieves struggle to make rent.
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They should sue the families for lost robot productivity too
Later, Uber would be sued for not actually providing the tombstones and for over-charging for them when they were provided.
They would counter that they had contracted a third party, X, to provide the tombstones, on behalf of the deceased, and had merely paid the invoices on the deceaseds’ behalfs, and that X, not Uber, would be liable for any failure to provide said tombstones or to have over-billed for them.
Years later, Uber would “lose” the case and would be ordered to send $3.50 to anyone who had sent them payments for tombstones between the years of 2024 and 2026, and $43.8 million to the attorneys on the case. They would also be required to set up a free tombstone check account for anyone who requested one in lieu of that payment, but they would only give 30 days to claim the account and would send it with a spammy sounding title like “Claim your free account now!” ensuring that only 4% of the eligible people actually managed to claim one.
Overall Uber will have made $418 million profit from their burial and tombstone billing service.
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I don’t think that’s at all unpopular, don’t a lot of beauty pageant women say how they want to end world hunger or poverty
If I still work in retail I would require far more money to notice things. Since my wage wasn’t tied to company profits what do I care.
Although I do remember a time that somebody stole all the skittles. We got yelled at about that one.
Fix poverty and you fix a huge amount of other things.
Ok sure, but have we considered arming the robots with assault rifles instead?
Arming autonomous robots, what could possibly go wrong?
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The article mentioned tear gas canisters be equipped instead. I can’t wait for a delivery robot to be near my property, someone tries to mess with it and gets gassed, then I get to enjoy tear gas as well from my front porch.
Or some kid walks past it, bumps it slightly and gets gassed in the face.
Well the next kid will think twice about bumping the bot.
I’m assuming the canisters would only be released if the door is forced open. I highly doubt it’s going to activate a few slightly knock it I mean hell, those things drive into lamp posts on occasion.
With the care and attention tech companies give to the safety of their devices, I can definitely see it spraying someone unintended. Probably even the person it was delivering to. Any company sensible enough to properly implement this likely will finder better less potentially dangerous solutions to the problem. This idea stinks of someone who gave it 5 minutes of thought and wants it implemented as quickly as possible.
Yeah but it’s what they’ll do.
Tear gas infused hamburger, mmmmm. Cough cough.
Now that’s hot sauce
Mmmm tear gassy food delivery
I’d go with thermonuclear warheads
Surely area of effect weaponry would be better.
The higher collateral impact just serves as an extra lesson to any wannabe thieves.
How’s that related? A criminal is a criminal, their wealth is irrelevant.
Because fixing poverty lowers criminality.
Ahaha! Right, sure!
Good point. It’s the poorest cities and neighborhoods that have the lowest crime rate. Forgot about that, thanks for educating.
It’s the poorest countries which have lower crime rates. You people are lunatics.
Yeah, that supports my point.
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TIL there’s people who don’t know that petty crime increases with poverty.
I have been made aware of some dumb groups of people in my time on the internet. But this one is up near the top.
Well ain’t you just a ball of sunshine.
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Lick as much as you wish, I won’t judge.
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Yeah, I love watching boot lickers doing their best!
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If we’re all not living in survival mode, why would people work? /s
Making people self sustainable is a good way to fix poverty but the state actively works against that.
What a pathetic bunch of people trying to maintain the slave status quo in these comments. WHY are you fighting to maintain a world where people have to work low tier bull shit jobs to survive? The answer, you morons, is to let the robots be and improve society to the point technology said it would. We re the most productive we’ve ever been in our entire history yet work more than any other time in history. We need work reform, not a robot genocide.
In an ideal world these robots would shift to there not being a need for “unskilled labor” and we would all have more leisure time. In the late stage capitalistic hellhole we are forced to live in, huge organization replace minimum wage jobs with robots and hoard profits and push people further unto poverty, while still overworking and underpaying the few people they do still employ.
If we had a ubi, then robots and self checkouts taking minimum wage jobs wouldn’t be an issue because the person who’s job was taken isn’t just displaced and faces homelessness or death.
So I sympathize with the people who are complaining about the robots. As much as I want a scifi future with a bunch of automation, I want exploitation of the lower class to end first.
Which is literally what my comment says, it’s a work reform problem not a robot problem. This is literally exhausting your anger and energy on the wrong thing. Do you really think destroying some robots will change society?
Destroying robots won’t change society, but it can give you free shit.
Yes I’m sure you’ll be all for it till someone lifts your shit. Then you’ll cry like the little bitch you are. Typical fuck you I got mine mindset.
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The unemployment rates in the USA and Canada are both far below norms. These robots aren’t taking anyone’s irreplaceable job. Of all the things they are (ugly, intrusive, annoying), one of the things they’re not doing is driving up unemployment. At worst, someone has to change jobs.
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It hurts no one? Besides the company that has to replace those items and the person who paid to order them durrrrrrrrrrr.
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Small businesses don’t have CEOs and often employ their whole family.
Are small businesses the ones using these robots?
In the case of uber Eats and many non-chain pharmacies, yes. We have Wing here which solves the theft problem.
yet work more than any other time in history.
My impression is that we’re the most leisurely, per capita, than we’ve ever been. The average workweek now is 34 hours, down from 60-70 in the 1850s.
I would disagree about your average because it’s brought down by people working multiple jobs that won’t generally staff them past those 30ish hours or what ever the magic number is to be just under the required time to be eligible for a benefits package. It’s a widely known problem in the work force.
https://www.indeed.com/career-advice/career-development/what-are-full-time-hours
I would disagree about your average because it’s brought down by people working multiple jobs
No, as these are the numbers reported by worker’s themselves (Robert Whaples’s research) and not by their disparate employers. But looking at it as you suggested, it comes out to 34.3 hours.
Here are two more views on it:
https://ourworldindata.org/working-more-than-ever (world trends)
Lol? What you just said doesn’t disprove what I said. If people work multiple jobs their hours will be lower. Nothing in your studies you presented said people only work 1 job. Just that the hours at any given job are only 30ish hours. Still doesn’t talk about people working more than 1 job.
let the robots be and improve society to the point technology said it would. We re the most productive we’ve ever been in our entire history yet work more than any other time in history. We need work reform, not a robot genocide.
I am in agreement with you, but the problem is the work reform part is not forthcoming. The delivery robots didn’t come with a helping of any kind of labor reform, whatsoever, and will not come with one either without some kind of violence to usher in the deal. The capitalist class would not allow it to happen any other way.
Is lemmy like the unofficial gathering place for commies? I see more commie garbage on here than reddit, which is saying something.
Where is the “commie garbage”?
People here are making valid complaints about the state of society.
Most people know that communism isn’t the answer.
Mostly everyone who says taking someone else’s property is okay if you feel they deserve it, or the seller deserves it. If you don’t see a huge commie bent here, then I would assume it’s because you are a commie or are commie-adjacent. For real, maybe I’ve just stumbled on the perfect mix, but I’m finding lemmy to be rife so far.
Mostly everyone who says taking someone else’s property is okay if you feel they deserve it
I don’t think that’s ok. Humans need their space, man.
If you don’t see a huge commie bent here, then I would assume it’s because you are a commie or are commie-adjacent
I see a moderate and a left bent here. Both of those I vibe with, but the left isn’t synonymous with communism or even marxism.
And there’s also idealism, of course - there’s plenty of that everywhere on the Internet.
My view of the left is that they want an infra that’s more aligned with the EU or Scandanavia.
That’s definitely not communism. NK is communist, and there are very few people who want NK.
If you truly believe that it still makes 0 sense to use the violence against the robots who have 0 idea why they’re being attacked and even when destroyed change nothing(because destroying these won’t stop companies from making better more lethal versions).
When I said violence I don’t mean against the robots (which you can damage but not commit violence against). It’s just a computer on wheels. I meant that labor reform will involve violence between people in the labor class and the capital class. Our American history is full of examples of exactly this kind of thing happening between a protest labor movement and its countervailing force.
Low income white neighborhoods have lower crime rates than black middle/high income neighborhoods. There is no more blind person that the one who doesnt want to see.
Del Spooner would like a word with you.
yet work more than any other time in history
1903 would like a word.
Everyday we are one step closer to the plot of Demolition Man. I cannot wait to taste some boosted Taco Bell.
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They’re bidet controls. One would be for front wash, another for rear wash, and the third one for air dry. There may be temperature controls hidden somewhere nearby, or more likely the system recognizes the user and automatically uses those temperature settings, and the seashells are just gussied up push buttons.
This is the most plausible and simultaneously worst possible answer to that bit.
“The robots are constantly monitored and equipped with 12 cameras and two-way audio communication systems. Any improper conduct will be detected immediately. If an incident does occur with a Starship robot, one of our robot rescuers can respond quickly,” robot builder Starship Technologies says regarding robot safety, adding that acts of vandalism or theft are reported to authorities.
While that may be true in theory, instances of actual prosecution for theft from robots in cities where they operate have not been easy to discover. As with far more widespread instances of front porch package thieves or shoplifters, despite the volume of video evidence the robots can produce the police have to actually take some investigative steps to identify and locate the suspects
I’m glad they’ve thought this through.
the police have to actually take some investigative steps to identify and locate the suspects
cops give zero fucks when crimes effect everyday citizens.
Do you have holiday citizens in your country?
Sure do. Rich business owners.
How dare they expect cops to “take some investigative steps?” We’ll arrest the criminals when you bring them in for us, along with evidence.
some robots have been robbed of the goods they’re delivering, including food.
That was easy to predict, wasn’t it?
I’m far from a Luddite and I think robots in general are cool. But I kind of don’t have an issue with people fucking up autonomous roaming robots. I haven’t rationalized that opinion just yet, I guess. Just feels right.
Philly did nothing wrong
I don’t think waving away being a Luddite just by saying so makes it so.
I can’t think of a single angle of principled moral theory that makes this okay. Vandalizing or stealing someone else’s property they paid for. Hurting both the restaurant and the customer by depriving them of their food. Holding back progress on an invention that can reduce the need for humans to engage in a type of work that is hard, dangerous at times, and low paid.
From a purely rational on paper view, it doesn’t look terribly different than saying vandalizing or stealing from delivery vehicles driven by people isn’t wrong. What possible justification could there be for this view besides Ludditism fuck robots?
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Maybe just overturn them so it becomes unprofitable?
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The only stain on humanity is you. Congrats!
groans
I don’t think waving away being a Luddite just by saying so makes it so.
Guess you know me better than I know myself.
From a purely rational on paper view, it doesn’t look terribly different than saying vandalizing or stealing from delivery vehicles driven by people isn’t wrong. What possible justification could there be for this view besides Ludditism fuck robots?
Imagine thinking humans are rational beings the debate ethics every time they have a feeling. Sometimes you just gotta fuck shit up.
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Under captialism we lament robots taking our jobs, where under a better system we would be rejoicing.
Do you mean the system where people would have the opportunity to cook better food for themselves instead of ordering fast food and paying exorbitant fees to have it delivered?
Pepperidge Farm remembers
https://www.cnn.com/2015/08/03/us/hitchbot-robot-beheaded-philadelphia-feat/index.html
You okay with people fucking up vending machines and ATMs too? Why or why not?
Not OP, but I would like to state that I am ok with that. You pulled a human out of the loop, and that comes with risks. Business decision.
Ok, so if it’s not a vending machine, but a cashier and cashier gets punched by a robber it’s ok as well?
Wouldn’t this justify vandalizing any type of machine whatsoever? Get in an elevator and nobody is looking? Stab the control panel so they have to get a human in the future making the elevator. See a car and no one is looking? Set it on fire so they have to use a human pulled rickshaw instead.
You’re all making logical ethics arguments on a flippant emotional comment I made. You ever just have intrusive thoughts that make you just want to fuck some shit up? That’s what these robots make me feel.
People take every comment way too seriously.
I agree with you. That Philly robot wasn’t even a robot, it was a pile of garbage in a chair.
The rational could be that those robots are taking the job of a human being and deserve to be robbed…
Using cars to deliver food pays very little, is dangerous (old guy with shotgun shoots your brains if you go to the wrong house), and is extremely bad for the environment. Current delivery workers could switch to a safer job with better pay and not damage the environment as much. Or we can implement UBI. Just a thought.
Edit: I would also like to point out a robot’s electric bill for a trip is much cheaper when compared to a gas or even an electric car. Ideally, the savings would be passed along to the customer.
I hate this argument… Do you have any idea how hard it is to get a job that pays a livable wage?
People aren’t dealing with the dangers of delivery because they are lazy or unmotivated, they are doing it because they need the work and it pays barely enough to meet their needs.
Yes, thats why we need some fucking change in the world. My argument is just saying delivery robots are not bad.
Where the hell did I say delivery workers were lazy?
Well… an old man shooting your brains out for ringing the wrong doorbell is a complete different problem.
We can also make robots to do that more efficiently.
That is LITERALLY the meaning of the “Luddite” position that has been disclaimed.
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time to stock up on crowbars and sledgehammers
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Oh, I’ll get mine from Amazon. They do 1 hour drone delivery now.
I’ll get my own crowbars and sledgehammers, with blackjack and hookers!
You seem like a person who would enjoy a forced labour!
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No one says “I want to live in a totalitarian shithole” better than a veteran
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Same as any Trumper in my view
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“they aren’t authoritarian bootlickers when they support my interests” is such a mask-off take.
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For me, this falls neatly into the “who fucking cares?” category. These things are deployed in very few cities overall and if the technology is ready for wide-release, you better have a more effective defense against theft than you already do if they are already being stolen from
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It’s not like these are high paying, highly desired jobs being replaced by robots. These are shit jobs that are a waste of time and talent to have done by humans.
These are shit jobs that are a waste of time and talent to have done by humans. I don’t know. I’ve met some humans who are definitely not talented enough for package delivery. Most of them working package delivery.
I’m sorry I couldn’t be bothered to deliver your parcel to your house, so here’s a picture of my foot.
Just because someone doesn’t give a shit about their useless job, doesn’t mean they don’t have useful talents in other areas.
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I would rather have these people painting, making music, cleaning up polluted rivers, basically anything that is useful to humanity that can’t be done by robots. If it can be done by a robot, it should be. Keeping jobs from being automated just to keep people busy is insanity to me. If society has to find this kind of work to allow people to survive, so be it.
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It better be. I want a challenge next time.
This is how we get Terminators, who would’ve thought?
If I can get Arnold Schwarzenegger delivering my food, I’m all for it.
walking into a McDonald’s totally naked after appearing in a time bubble outside
“I need 3 big Mac’s, 3 large fries and 3 medium cokes. To go.”
I’ve seen a documentary where Arnold delivers an action figure to a kid in a jetpack. That’s definitely the future I want
I’ll be back with your dessert.
modern crimes in modern times
1 spray can of black paint vs 1000 robot cameras, who wins?
Here’s an idea, don’t launch these services in low trust, high crime places. In California, people can walk into a fully staffed Walgreens and commit blatant theft with no repercussions; a poor robot out in the world stands no chance.
There’s a lot of parallels here. One I’m not on the side of Walgreens and I’m not on the side of the robot. If it comes down to petty crime but the only victim is an insured multi-billion dollar conglomerate I’m not going to shead a tear.
The laws for thee and not for me.
The moment I start deploying robots on publicly funded sidewalks in attempt to undercut the working class, feel free to crack one open and steal some pizza rolls.
Youve fallen into a rightwing echo chamber:
Maybe we cried too much’: Walgreens hints it exaggerated shoplifting surge
I used to work in a Vons in Santa Monica in 2016. We had thefts every day. Some even got violent. Our manager got tired of it and threatened to break someone’s legs after they walked out of the store with something one morning. The theft problem in CA is real.
Yeah, it’s called shrinkage and it’s built into the profit model of all brick and mortar stores. Every store has some degree of theft, and while it increased for a short time during the middle of the pandemic, its since tapered off to normal levels.
If you read the article I posted, its clear that the rate of theft is exaggerated overall in California, especially by the commentors chosen example, Walgreens.
I’m sorry to hear about your personal experience with Vons, but it also sounds like your manager had anger issues and was part of the problem.
When I’m working 12 hours a week and seeing 3-5 thefts, plus violence, every week, it’s more than just “shrinkage.” I can’t speak for all of CA, but that was my experience.
Lol, as if theft only happens in California. This is a ridiculous statement to make.
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Actually it can have repercussions on them… A lot of companies give bonuses to store managers for reducing their shrinkage, even by .5%. The inherent problem with that strategy 90% of the time it’s the lowly employee who actually does the work. Therefore the manager get more money for the employee doing the job they should do themselves for the bonus. Now mom and pop shops it makes sense, but these big corpo’s only care about increasing payments to their shareholders and board of directors.
Now when the manager is asked for a raise, they will act like it’s coming out of their own pocket. In all seriousness, being employed is nothing more than indentured servitude. This is why people in general cannot make any headway in business unless they put themselves in debt for 30 years to be educated to do a job. Mind you better than 60% of college graduates don’t even get a job in the field they went to college for.
And don’t even get me started on the predatory practices of colleges.
I used to work at a Ralph’s in Santa Monica and no one stole anything ever
The Ralph’s surrounding Santa Monica are pretty evenly spaced out, except for a mysterious hole where downtown Santa Monica is. My store was near downtown Santa Monica.
CA had a republican governor for how many years? It’s completely exaggerated by Republicans
CA is not as liberal as people make it seem
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1994_California_Proposition_187
And they canned Affirmative Action in 1996
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996_California_Proposition_209
posted that to !shoplifting@slrpnk.net btw
These robots are a hazard and a nuisance to the pedestrians. I won’t shed a single tear for these tincans on wheels. I would not order one of these either.
Yeah cars are so much better and safer \s
You don’t get to choose if your order is delivered by one… these have been in operation worldwide since 2014, alongside traditional delivery drivers
Fuck those cogs or any human that dares to be an aug. I’ll trashem whenever I see em.
“Cogs” - did you really just use a slur they invented for Deus Ex game as a real slur? Gonna call them clanks and hanzers too?
Even if you did, you realize those are in universe slurs and indicate the person is ignorant, right?
Without that context the above comment is deranged.
When wasn’t it going to be a thing?
