The United States has announced the approval of the sale of more than $7.4bn in bombs, missiles and related equipment to Israel, which has used American-made weapons to devastating effect during the war in Gaza.
The state department has signed off on the sale of $6.75bn in bombs, guidance kits and fuses, in addition to $660m in Hellfire missiles, according to the US Defense Security Cooperation Agency (DSCA).
The proposed sale of the bombs “improves Israel’s capability to meet current and future threats, strengthen its homeland defense, and serves as a deterrent to regional threats”, the DSCA said in a statement.
When will DOGE cut this spending?
Are they going to send back eggs?
Where are all the fascists that are crying about less government and keeping our money in the US and only for the US?
Wasn’t that the whole argument of dismantling USAID?
Answer: Republicans are full of shit and so are Musk, Donald, Vance and all the rest.
Where are all the fascists that are crying about less government and keeping our money in the US and only for the US?
They label it a sale and it’s suddenly OK. They ALSO send a lot of aid, but that’s only a bad thing when a democrat is in charge. Now that republicans are in charge, Israel is part of the US as far as aid and such is concerned.
I’m sorry people of Gaza, this is really evil and as a US person who has paid taxes, I’m a part of it. I wish I could stop it but am poor, I’m not sure protesting would work. I feel helpless and also responsible. This is no different than when everyone looked the other way and refused to take Jewish people during WWII. I am sorry for not realizing what this was sooner and disbelieving the severity and evilness of it at first. :-( There’s really no way for me to opt out of this unless I leave the US, become like Henry David Thoreau and just don’t participate in society, which may mean death for me, or actually just choose to die so I no longer have to be part of a disgusting and evil society. The regular people of Gaza aren’t part of this war and war crimes are being committed. It probably means nothing but I’m so so sorry.
Don’t worry fellow US citizen. God will do something I’m sure. Any day now God will help those in need. Any… Day now.
I get your sarcasm, but what should I be doing as a poor US citizen?
-Writing letters? (Unlikely to persuade people because opinions are divided on humanitarian versus hard-core Christian theologian views. I would need to remotely deprogram elected officials for this to work.)
-Holding signs to protest? (Unlikely to persuade for the same reasons.)
-Sending lengthy theological arguments to right-wing types? (I could try it. It would be strange coming from an atheist but I could try? It would be more effective than trying to deprogram them.)
-Donations? (I looked at some organizations helping Gaza and many of their leaders make substantially more than me per year and I’m dealing with financial hardship. It’s hard for me to donate to an organization with leaders who have high salaries while I struggle with bills, but maybe that’s a bad excuse. Maybe some leaders with high salaries donate to their own organization, but if so it wasn’t listed.)
-Direct donations? (I should probably do this, and I’m not sure how to do this.)
Please, tell me the appropriate response for a poor person, even if it’s anything other than nothing. I just feel like nothing I do will be effective.
Where are all the “We need to stop sending money overseas” voters? Did they win yet?
This one is a sale, not a donation.
Bullshit, Israel continues to receive monetary aid from the US and the latest weapons sales includes federal subsidies. US and German taxpayers always pay for weapons destined for Israel.
The linked article defines it as a sale, do you have sources that shows otherwise?
America gives Israel free money. Israel uses that money to “buy” whichever American weapons they want. Example:
Israel says it has secured $8.7 billion U.S. aid package
This is a good overview of cost:
From Iron Dome to F-15s: US provides 70% of Israel’s war costs
The U.S. government has spent at least $22.76 billion on military aid to Israel from October 7, 2023, to September 30 of this year - (2024 in article)
My statement was regarding the current deal, both links are talking about other arm deals.
The reason US citizens don’t have health care or free higher education is a political choice. You spend more dollars per capita than any other nation, but the system is inefficient. Similar shit goes in higher education. In sane countries students don’t need to buy books, they loan them from the library. They don’t have mega stadiums in universities. Admin are nor racking in piles of gold and academic staff pay is shit. So education doesn’t costs so much.
The USA doesn’t give Israel free money, they give military aid with strings attached. Israel ‘battle test’ American products, with no danger to American soldiers. More so, the US get the fruits of Israeli R&D, such as Iron Dome, that was developed in Israel and is now manufactured in the US, giving the US army access to it. Israel also hosts American bases in the region.
As for your second link, who ever wrote it lacks understanding in global trade. The US didn’t deploy aircraft carriers to defend Israel. They deployed them to defend global trade routes from an Iranian proxy. The Houthi “blockade” didn’t cause much harm to Israel’s economy, it harmed other nations much more. This is why a coalition of different countries took part in the attack on the Houthis.
[0] “houthi blockade economic damage” in your favorite search engine and pick a source you trust. [1] https://www.reuters.com/world/middle-east/china-presses-iran-rein-houthi-attacks-red-sea-sources-say-2024-01-26/
I think the poster’s post was not about this specific instance, but about the bigger picture. If someone gives you 20 dollars in food aid and then you buy 20 dollars in oranges from them, is it a sale or is it really more of a gift just masquerading as a sale? I think that was the poster’s point, not whether the particular article refers to something actually gifted versus paid for.
Good to know it now becomes a good thing since the US is getting something out of it, great line in the sand.
US is getting something out of this anyway. Testing is very expensive, ‘battle tested’ is great is great to get your weapons sold.
Much cheaper to ship it to Israel.
Seriously, them and trumpers’ voters are awfully quiet…
Well, they stopped sending money to Ukraine, so I guess thats part of their stance fulfilled.
And stopped enforcing the sanctions on Russia that were created by the legislature. If the executive branch does not execute the laws made by the legislature then we are not a republic. We are now a dictatorship.
Fun fact: Genocide Donald is the oldest president the United States has ever had.
Orange Senile Whackjob.
Sleepy Don
Oldest elected or will be the oldest by the time his term ends? Biden is currently older but was elected at a younger age.
So there is still time…
Imagine paying off student loans with that money.
This one is a sale, not a donation. This Trump greasing representatives from within the US that has weapons manufacturing in their region.
Even if this is technically true, if there is a certain amount of aid and a certain percent goes to US deals that are exported, and then the aid gets bigger with the expectation of larger more expensive export deals, I’m just not sure if this is meaningfully true rather than technically true. I am not downvoting you, BTW, I appreciate the correction, but just belive you are are confusing a semantic difference with actual ignorance.
Imagine eliminating homelessness with that money.
No Way Jesus would allow that! /s
“But we need indentured servants!” - the rich
Bruh then what’s the point of AI
To muddy the waters of any real Corporate capabilities while leadership reaps the benefits of capital investments
Well I’m successfully confused.
Where’s all the idiots who wouldn’t vote “for genocide” at?
They didn’t want to participate in warcrimes.
Was it more important for liberals and Kamala to lose the election than stand for Palestine?
How much did Biden send to Israel?
Here waiting for you to stop infighting and join us in the real world.
It’s very exiting to chase random Jewish students on campuses and chant Genocide Joe than to apply critical thinking that may induce an headache.
It’s like Trump’s plans were secret.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev
Are you saying voters shouldn’t be shocked? I think many Christians are indifferent at best and complicit at worst. If some Muslims hadn’t sat out the election or voted Stein, would it have made a difference? It seemed like Trump was voted in by a landslide because average middle class people hate inflation and Biden was quasi-gaslighting people with CPI inflation statistics that include decreased smart TV prices and RAM costs as well as increased rent and food at similar weights that doesn’t reflect what hurts consumers most while failing to reassure the public that yes, it was a problem, and that he was trying to do something. For about 2 years there was a major problem with nothing done by Biden. He was going to get voted out and Kamela Harris, who was in power and could have galvanized some sort of policy instead of doing nothing for 2 years was going to get voted out. They failed the public in a very important way and pretended the inflation problem wasn’t bad. It upset people, even Democrats and liberals, and lost them almost all of the moderate vote.
The economy sucks globally. The US president can’t fix the inflation. People are suffering economically everywhere.
We had a pandemic, world order is breaking down with Iran China and Russia leading the charge and on top of that climate change is accelerating.
It’s going to get much, much worse very quickly, and picking Trump will make things worse. The president can’t reduce the inflation, but he can fuck things even farther.
Right, but Biden failed in his communications with people.
He said it wasn’t that bad. That wasn’t reassuring.
Even if soil problems and climate change are leading to crop reductions, and if that’s the real issue, along with increasing the money supply, telling Americans “eh, it’s not that bad everything looks fine based on the CPI” was an epic fail for a President.
His strategy may have been the best option, although that’s doubtful, as I can think of various policies that would have reassured people without altering the money supply and am familiar with classical economic theories, but he failed to make people feel like he saw their pain. It was terrible politics from Biden, who is usually great at this stuff, and he failed at this because he was never in charge before and could rely on his extreme likability while in lower offices. I’m not denying Biden’s intellect, he was tremendously smart and presumably still is, but he screwed up his messaging with the public.
Why was it more important for Kamala to continue the genocide than to win over those non-voters?
How much did Joe send every year?
How much military aid did we send to Israel under Biden? And Kamala was different from him, how? How many UN motions were vetoed by a Democrat administration to prolong the genocide? I ate shit and voted for Democrats again, but there was never anyone to vote for that wasn’t going to support the genocide of Palestinians.
Biden stopped sending bombs and artillery that was being used to level Gaza.
Those are the exact weapons Trump is starting to send again.
Stop trying to equivocate. Trump is significantly worse for Gaza than Biden or Harris.
I wish your fantasy world existed, but it doesnt
The Russian bots still have it out for Biden.
Neoliberals still have a hard on for genocide Joe.
You live in a dream world. Biden didn’t stop anything except UN resolutions against Israel’s genocide.
Way too much
Are you the same loser that says this under every post?
No, but that’s a good idea.
This same infighting comment in every single thread.
You see it was impossible to take a nuanced position and vote for the lesser of two evils.
But they can claim moral superiority, and we all know that’s what’s most important when it comes down to it.
I’m so glad that your choice allowed you to claim moral superiority.
So far the bigger evil has secured a working ceasefire and people aren’t dying to those bombs at the moment. Which is infinitely better than “genocide is ongoing”.
The ceasefire was in the works and fully implemented before the Cheeto didn’t place his hand on the Bible
Let’s not start twisting history. The ceasefire came directly after the Trump envoy. Giving any credit for it to Biden is insane cope.
It’s the ceasefire Biden’s team that nearly got accepted until Trump phoned up his pal Netanyahu to tell him not to do it until he got elected.
The ceasefire agreement was the exact same as it was in October when it was rejected. And not by Palestine. Trump sent envoys a month before the Gaza ceasefire happened. This isn’t Biden who got it.
Yeah, Biden negotiated that.
Steve Witkoff negotiated it.
Yup
Imagine saying that line unironically. Serious Nazi vibes here at .world.
Imagine killing over forty thousand vs under two thousand and calling people who opposed the slaughter of thousands of women and babies Nazis? Go to hell.
Ah yes, lets turn the rubble into ash
Hi might just hire the Palestinians he removed from Gaza to help them clean up the place, just in time for ground breaking.
At least he’s not Kamala.
/s for all the easily triggered assholes
B…b…but the Democrats are genociders so I didn’t vote or voted 3rd party to help the Palestinians.
Did I help? Did I help them? Does this help them?
None of the votes during this past election would have helped Palestine. That’s the point. You gotta think long term. Dems and Reps suck.
Our two party, single vote system isn’t working for the people and they want you to believe it is. Control your politicians. Don’t let them control you.
Such a retarded take.
There is no long term for the people of Gaza after 7/10.
The Biden’s administration was the only thing stopping Netanjaho from turning the Gaza Strip into a hole.
The Gazans probably lost their home forever, and seeing the escalation in the West Bank I think they are fucked too.
There will be no returning after Kushner builds his water front properties. Which wasn’t a secret.
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev
It’s not like Americans will get to vote again. The current system is done for.
Wow. This comment is one of the stupidest, most embarrassing comments I’ve seen on the internet. This comment is such a sad representations of ignorance and complicit brainwashing. Really dumb dumb comment right here.
Wow. This comment is one of the stupidest, most embarrassing comments I’ve seen on the internet. This comment is such a sad representations of ignorance and complicit brainwashing. Really dumb dumb comment right here.
This comment should play blindfolded on the Autobahn
Wow. This comment is one of the stupidest, most embarrassing comments I’ve seen on the internet. This comment is such a sad representations of ignorance and complicit brainwashing. Really dumb dumb comment right here.
Oh my god. I thought I’d seen it all. When I look at this comment I feel sad for mankind. This comment is literally scum of the earth quality. This comment should go hang itself.
It’s not like Americans will get to vote again. The current system is done for.
Ah yes, the same type of alarmist rhetoric the dems were pushing during the campaign. If the stakes were really this high, why did democrats sit on their asses for 4 years while Trump gained power? Why was their legal battle against Trump the most limp-dicked effort we’ve seen? Most importantly, why did Biden peacefully transfer power to Trump if the stakes were truly so high? This is one of the funniest liberal thought processes to me: the idea that it’s better to sacrifice your constitution, country, and democratic process instead of sacrificing “civility”, “decorum”, and “precedent”. Yall would rather embrace fascism with open arms than use the most basic tools at your disposal: stacking courts, appointing judges, using executive orders, etc… you know, all the strategies Republicans have mastered these past few years and have shown are extremely effective.
At the end of the day, the Democratic party’s selling point was “harm reduction”, but that was generous at best. It has become clear that the democrats simply slowed down the rate at which things were getting worse, and when the position of the party becomes “slow down genocide” as opposed to “stop genocide”, I think it’s perfectly fair for people to draw a red line. The only logical conclusion to this line of thinking is reaching a point, 20 years from now, when the choice is between a Democrat who wants 9 genocides and a republican who wants 10.
As an outsider, the Democrats seems like a bunch of impotents. After losing the elections they had nothing to do, nothing.
The JewNazi party in Israel that actually want to commit genocide enjoys about 5-7% support from adult population.
The Nazis in Germany had 11-13% of the population supporting them.
Over 20% of Americans support MAGA.
So the dems are dumb for not fighting fascism with fascism? You can’t save democracy by destroying it. That “ends justify the means” thinking is why the republican party ended up this way. Why would republicans in congress want to disenfranchise themselves by installing a dictator? They’re just morons grasping for conspiracy theories to win elections, without thinking about the long term consequences. Maybe I’m naive, but save for the few actual lunatics (like MTG), I’m sure many republicans would turn on Trump the instant they felt they could get away with it, especially now
For the US, sure.
Letting in the Tangerine Mussolini means there won’t be a Palestine by the end of his term.
With the Democrats under the control of the DNC neither. Remember how the US built an “aid pier” for hundreds of millions that never delivered aid, but instead a beachhead for an Israeli assault disguised as humanitarian aid?
Now with Trump people are forced to confront the empire and maybe resist it from within, which also helps those outside of it. In the same wake other countries like in Europe will have to confront the fact that the US was never their friend, but just gave more considerations to the appearance of mutual respect and sovereignity on the outside.
The US empire has made it clear under Biden already, that there will be no peace in the Middle East, as long as the empire can prevent it. The only route to peace is dismantling the empire and replacing it with a normal country.
Neither of those things will happen, the US will turn into an autocratic state and Palestine will be erased. Then they will expand to Greater Israel with US troops.
the US will turn into an autocratic state and Palestine will be erased.
Ah the iron convictions of those who participate in a democratic society.
I am an anarchist and have only voted once for secession. I would’ve voted against Trump if I were American. What is your point though?
The fall of the American federal government to fascism is not as foregone a conclusion as it is being made out to be.
The same factions that didn’t want to change the incumbent policy are the same that are accepting the fascist movement without resistance.
While I don’t disagree, I feel like we need to talk more about how disconnected the Democratic Party is from what their base actually wants. Them being diet republicans ain’t cutting it
Democrats didn’t push for that:
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/mar/19/jared-kushner-gaza-waterfront-property-israel-negev
You ate Republican propoganda.
Push for what? I didn’t mention any specific policy point
You said Democrats are lite Republicans. This is false.
I gave an example, they reigned Israel, Trump is going to take over Gaza.
What do you think “lite Republicans” means?
How did Democrats “reign in Israel”? You know other countries exist right? And they exert international pressure? Democrats have not reigned in Israel at all.
Democrats blocked shipments of heavy weaponry to Israel. Trump signed it all and more.
It’s my opinion. I know the Republican policies towards Gaza are worse. I waited 4.5 hours in line to vote for Kamala but I am still pissed at them for not going after Bibi harder. Israel killed US citizens when they bombed clearly marked World Central Kitchen cars and the Biden administration just kept sending arms.
This attack was bonkers, WCK also fed Israelis that had to escape the war zones in the south and north.
Have you actually looked at their platform? Or are you just repeating “Republican lite” because that’s what all your social circle says?
This kind of feels like a loaded question, but yeah, I’d prefer it be more progressive. I’d like for Nancy and the other old guard to accept that they’ve got to move out of the way for the next generation to take the helm. Instead she blocked the new blood from higher committee positions. The attacks on her insider trading stick for a reason. I wish the same ones didn’t bounce off republicans but they’re clearly scott free of any accountability from their voting base, unlike the left which is constantly infighting.
Nancy Pelosi actually doesn’t do any trading, the man she married while still in college owns an investment firm and in the USA married couples have joint assets.
One of the biggest allegations of Insider Trading was when VISA credit company offered them stock options just before a big legislation regulating VISA went through, but Nancy actually voted against the company’s interests anyways.
In many years, Paul’s portfolio operates at a loss and the two of them don’t even make the list of top traders in congress.
Gee, would have been nice to have democracy a few more years to maybe try and fix it.
Fix what exactly? It isn’t that the democrats are a new party that suddenly popped into existence for the last election. They’ve been doing this shit forever.
… mmhmmm. I guess no democracy is better then. I’m convinced.
No, it isn’t. But acting as if democrats were / are willing to change and listen to the people is extremely naive. That’s the reason Bernie Sanders was never allowed to be a candidate despite being one of the most popular dems out there. There needs to be a third way / party that does better and claws out the democrats from ever being able to win.
Bernie Sanders WAS a presidential candidate in multiple primaries. He LOST those primaries by a HUGE MARGIN.
And then HE PROMOTED THE CANDIDATES WHO WON AND WE DIDN’T LISTEN TO HIM.
Shhh. They don’t want to hear facts.
They do hold primaries, ya know.
They let non-party-favored candidates run in the primaries just like how this kid is allowed to mow the law
True. But at the same time you’re not going to get any of that by not voting and letting Republicans get elected. I mean get you butts out there and primary these centrist lead weights.
If the DNC allowed that y’all wouldn’t be in this mess in the first place. I mean hello? 2020 was four years ago.
2008 was the last legitimate democratic primary
primary these centrist lead weights.
This. Right. Here.
No they’d rather sit on the couch and complain that the dinosaurs are dinosauring and won’t switch to communist revolution like they believe everyone wants, even though they’ve never left the couch.
If they actually went out and tried to become local politicians to effect change they would probably see that their ideals are far less popular in real life among normal people outside of the terminally online crowd.
Ah yes, the “pull yourself up by the bootstraps” argument for electoralism. It doesn’t matter who we vote for when they get laundered through the lobbying machine on the highest setting after or even before they get into office. Tell me, who is at the top of this list? https://www.opensecrets.org/industries/summary?code=Q05&cycle=All&ind=Q05&recipdetail=M
I’m saying this as someone who has voted democrats straight down the ballot in every election I could. It doesn’t work when money is more powerful than any vote.
Money is only this powerful because people didn’t vote when it mattered to keep money out of politics.
Both democrats and republicans are in line with neoliberal thought about letting corporations get bigger and bigger and giving more freedom to capital than to people. A simple vote isn’t going to change this. Let’s pretend that democrats are opposed to money in politics, you’d have to vote them in every single time because there aren’t singular times when it’d matter since the assault on democracy is ever-present. This is impossible under the two-party system. Things will go wrong and people will blame whoever is in power. Things are constantly getting worse which is why we’re seeing this more frequent swapping of parties in power.
I feel like we need to talk more about how disconnected the Democratic Party is from what their base actually wants
Did you feel this need before the election too? Because a lot of people did and that is who we’re talking about here.
Doesnt this boil down to the usual “the left falls in love, while the right falls in line”? hard to fall in love with your alliy’s ongoing war crimes and lefties are renowed for not falling in line even against their best interests. Makes it hard to win as an incumbent, though, how did Obama win reelection, he wouldn’t have been mistaken for a saint the second time round.
PS: got it, it’s because Romney still couldn’t make the right fall in line hard enough comparing with the love for Obama.
Agreed, but the roar of such sentiment just prior to the election that immediately died out tells you most people saying that didn’t actually believe it.
Those who do kept their mouths shut until after the election, because we knew doing otherwise would just elect Trump.
They couldn’t win an election as diet republicans.
They’re not going to win if they move further left.
Democrats lost because they didn’t embrace populist rhetoric.
If they just ran someone like Bernie they could have won. People are tired of the status quo and they thought Trump would be a way out of it. All democrats run on is “we’ll keep things the same”.
Left populism is popular. Center right positions coming from the Democrats are not.
Would you like fascism or diet fascism? Uhh… Neither. So I guess I will just stay home and not vote
(Actually, I did vote. But I can understand why a lot of people weren’t motivated to).
You can’t defeat the darkness by becoming gray. You need to become bright and colorful
That’s just a silly metaphor.
Suggesting that dems would win more votes by being further left is contrary to established political science.
June 29, 2024 US has sent Israel thousands of 2,000-pound bombs since Oct. 7
Biden only stopped sending them after there was nothing left to destroy in Gaza.
Dude, I’m not defending Biden in any sense whatsoever.
There was one shot at helping the people of Palestine, that was the Democrats.
They refused to listen to voters and instead took in billions of lobbying from Zionists.
The only blame lies solely on Kamala and her greed. Imagine thinking stopping Trump was less important than making money.
I wonder if you will keep rehashing the election even as people are being loaded into boxcars?
“I told you trans people to vote third party, but you had to vote for Kamala, didn’t you? Bye-bye!”
I wonder if you will ever stop blaming voters for a party so shit they let Trump win.
I will never stop blaming the party, the candidate, the people who refused to vote to stop the fascist and the people who did not vote at all.
Unlike you, apparently, I think there is plenty of blame to go around because I do not view the world in black-and-white terms.
But more importantly, I could not give less of a fuck anymore. It already happened. Months ago. It’s over. Move on to the problems of now. I understand it’s fun fun fun to argue about the election, but the election is over.
It certainly seems that way on .world lately.
I knew what the comments were going to be in this thread before I even opened it.
They think there will be another legitimate election and I don’t know why they think that in the face of the mountain of evidence that America is now a fascist one-party state with that party being above the law.
Yeah, you probably saw the article yesterday about the head of the FEC. They tried to fire her and of course Musk is trying to get into all of those systems.
The only way the US is going to ever have fair elections again is after a lot of bloodshed. And possibly restructuring as a new nation.
Federal IT is basically fucked. The whole system would need to be replaced to get rid of all of the back doors Musk is installing.
Elections are over. Gtfo or figure out how to stay safe if you have to (I’m in the later camp, can’t afford to move and hard to get a passport anyway being trans)
I’m so sorry. I was able to get out with my daughter, who is gay, for that reason. I really hope you can be safe. I really worry about you and all of the other queer people in America and I wish I could do something.
The US is over. I hope my state and those near us have the balls to secede and form Cascadia. I’d volunteer to fight if needed.
The Democrats seemed quite fine with risking Trans people to be loaded into boxcars. Also many people immediately lasged out at ethnic minorities and queer people for not supporting the Democrats as strongly.
For the DNC they only got some considerations, when they were useful for power. Now that they didnt grant it, they got tossed aside.
Case in point all the D-Representatives now helping to vote Trump officials into elected government positions.
I guess the answer is yes, you will keep rehashing the election even as people are being loaded into boxcars.
I mean “what the fuck happened in November 2024” is an important question to answer if you’re ever going to stop people from being loaded into boxcars.
Except people aren’t rehashing it to learn, everyone is just rehashing things to assign blame.
Fuck, Republicans had their whole postmortem and even they managed to learn and now control all three branches of government.
Many people are rehashing it in defense, because these posts always start with assigning blame for not voting in Harris.
It would be great if the Democratic Party started running a more popular platform and won the election by something other than begrudging lesser-of-two-evils votes. Obama’s first term showed how powerful that could be.
Hopefully the Democratic Party has learned that bringing a status-quo to a populist fight isn’t a good idea, but I’m not holding my breath on that anymore.
Except people aren’t rehashing it to learn, everyone is just rehashing things to assign blame.
That’s fair, but I think you can’t have one without the other. I mean assigning blame as an end in and of itself is pretty unproductive, but I still do believe that there’s something to be gained from those conversations as people use them as springboards to figure out the question of what the fuck to do about this. Shutting down conversations about the election is just not the way to go if your goal is to eventually defeat fascism.
Really? How?
Because one thing (holding your nosed and uniting behind the Democrats) was tried, and miserably failed. If you don’t know why it failed you’ll never know how to do better, or even if it is possible to do better. I guess my point is that those who don’t learn from the past are doomed to repeat it, and y’all really can’t afford a repeat of this election.
I think the way forward is to get away from both Republicans and Democrats and bring people into power, who are not part of either. Going back to the Democrats is not going to make things better again. Another example for that is the migration and deportation policies of Biden, which were mostly a continuation of Trumps policies.
Dont ever talk to me again I hate you i hate you I just wanted to be friends with you And you made fun of me Also im sorry, i said that about u jews and im sorry Dont make fun of me meanie 😡
Who was president when Israel flattened Gaza? Who sent them the weapons to do it? Why do you excuse Biden and the Democrats role in the genocide just because Trump is worse?
The Harris campaign purposefully ignored anyone asking about Gaza.
“We also didn’t create a new category for Gaza responses out of fear that category would be leaked. Instead we were told to mark them as ‘no response,’” the organizer said, faulting top Harris campaign leaders for failing to address the issue. “The only ‘clowns’ out there are those who were in senior leadership and decided to abdicate on this issue, who silenced a Palestinian speaker at the DNC, and who told us to ignore it every time a voter asked us about Gaza.”
I am increasingly disgusted by liberals. I am never voting Democrat again, it is past Biden or Harris being bad, it is the entire base that is genocidal except with polite rhetoric.
Who is president while Native Americans and Puerto Ricans are being arrested by ICE and threatened with deportation?
Who is president while America gives up on every single climate goal?
Who is president while Elon Musk’s people have been given total access to U.S. finances without any sort of security clearances?
I could go on, but I won’t, because you are acting like the election was some sort of referendum on Israel. And all I can say to that is that I hope you have the white privilege to not be affected by this at the level of anyone who’s skin is a darker shade of peach and the cisgender, heterosexual privilege as well.
Excuse is a different thing altogether than a vote. One is a state of mind. The other impacts who is president and brings that administrations actions into reality. Anyone who did not vote Democrat is responsible for the net difference in those outcomes. A vote is not a protest.
The ceasefire has been in effect since January 19. Gazans have been returning to their rubble. There have been prisoner swaps and hostage releases.
So, for context, this is an improvement. Selling arms that aren’t actively being used is a whole lot better than when they are.
Again: not directly funding an ongoing genocide was not a major hurdle nor the big ask it was made out to be.
A ongoing and lasting ceasefire is an extreme gamechanger on Israel policy.
What are you believing in exactly? You literally think Netanyahu is going to stop after this sale?
No. My belief is that a ceasefire is a better condition than no ceasefire.
Are you fucking for real? You are trying to spin this as positive? Y’all are delusional.
I am indeed making the delusionally brave stance of spinning a seemingly lasting ceasefire as a positive.
…seemingly lasting ceasefire…
Oh, my sweet summer child…
It is by no means an end to the conflict nor is there a solution. However it is, in fact, a ceasefire that has lasted longer than any other since October 7th.
Netanyahu: I would like to buy seven billions worth of your finest bombs, please. I have no intention to use them, pinkie swear.
You: I trust this reliable upstanding moral character, if he says he won’t use them, he really means it.
The US and Israel are cartoon villains at this point.
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So the same as Biden but liberals have a selective memory.
Here’s a few articles to remind the intentionally forgetful liberals:
March 2024 U.S. sends more weapons to Israel amid growing calls for cease-fire
June 2024 US has sent Israel thousands of 2,000-pound bombs since Oct. 7
Anyways keep going mask off. Good luck getting any of us to vote Democratic ever again. It is clearly isn’t just a few Democratic politicians who are bad, it is the entire party base that’s a basket of deplorables to quote a prominent Democrat.
So let’s say this issue is a push… Now how about EVERY OTHER FUCKING THING HAPPENING?
STOP trying to draw a false equivalency between the two paths we had available to us.
You will not find a more peaceful and just society on the paths presented by the oligarchy.
You will have to remove both machinations of the oligarchy from power.
So the same as Biden but liberals have a selective memory.
Then I guess there should have been other reasons to stop Trump from getting into office.
Good luck getting any of us to vote Democratic ever again.
You still think Republicans will have elections that aren’t the kind they have in Russia.
Amazing how many people still think America still works by the rules.
but hey he wants a fast start building the riviera of the middle east
He does, and also doesn’t want to send American soldiers.
axis of evil and has been. you vote democrat, you vote republican, you vote for genocide. simple as.
This is down voted for some reason but it’s literally true. No matter who you voted for no matter whether you voted or not you voted for genocide in this election. Pure facts.
Yeah, because all things are equal. At least to simpletons.
But you do realize that trump is much much much much worse, right? It’s not just about the genocide, you know.
Worse how? In terms of for Palestine. They were always screwed no matter what. It seems to me that Trump is pretty much identical to Biden in terms of supporting Palestine, except he’s an idiot and says the quiet part out loud while Biden just recited Zionist talking points.
I literally said “it’s not just about the genocide.” Palestine isn’t the only thing going on in the world, and there are millions of people who are being affected right here in the US because of trump’s fascist behavior.
I’m sorry about Palestine, and if there was a candidate who vowed to stop feeding Israel money & weapons, I’d vote for them. But I’m not a single issue voter, because I’m not a fucking moron. I can’t turn my back on transsexuals in America, or Latin American refugees, or immigrants in the US, or low-income people, the mentally ill, the elderly, non-Christians, gays, the sick, or pregnant women in America. I can’t ignore climate change. I can’t ignore the possibility of another pandemic. The US public education system is in danger. Environmental protections are in danger. Countless other public health & safety programs are in danger. Ukrainians are in danger. All because of trump.
I’m supposed to not vote for a candidate who supports genocide, when both candidates support it, but one of the two also threatens everything else, plus so much more?
The way our political system works is if you don’t vote for one it practically counts as a vote for the other-so refusing to vote is also supporting genocide.
Like other people have said- it’s a real life trolly problem. The people are already tied to the tracks, and all I can do is pull a lever. There is no avoiding it.
I hate the genocide. I support Palestine. I believe that between the two candidates, at least there was a sliver of a chance that they would stop the genocide under a Democratic presidency. Under a Republican presidency, there is less than zero chance. In addition to all I’ve listed above, and more.
In terms of Palestine maybe it’s a wash. But at least the Dems have a handful of party members who want to stop helping Israel. But my child right here in the US is in danger now because of trump. Billions of children’s futures are in danger because of trump.
Yeah it sucks for all of us that have like morals and ethics and crap. Like I said, I ate shit and voted for Democrats like I’ve done for my entire life. I did not and would never vote for a republican and I’m not encouraging anyone to. What I’m saying is that our politics is like making a choice between cutting your dick off or getting your eye poked out. There is no good option.
I feel deeply for people who have children, you probably shouldn’t have done that.
These people have enough privilege that they know they won’t be put in the camps first. And they probably think they never will. So it’s no risk to them.
i don’t think he’s much much much much worse, that’s too many muchs- maaaybe much much worse- and that’s neither here or there… genocide IS a reasonable red line and you can’t gaslight me off my solid footing in that regard.
Ok but you’ve opted for the much much worse ethnic clensing.
Even if it actually happens, much worse than what?
Than what was happening under the dems.
It’s already happening. US contractors on the ground, and Trump OKd ramping up in the West Bank which the dems were also blocking
which the dems were also blocking
Which the dems were what? Israel ramped up operations in the West Bank during the war if you remember that. Also at least 200 thousand Gazans have died my man at least wait until something (and no, Trump saying horrible things doesn’t qualify) happens before you say “worse than what was happening under the dems”.
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To some people the genocide overshadows anything else because… Y’know, it is/was a genocide. Telling those people that “it’s not just about the genocide” is, frankly, barking up the wrong tree.
Personally I’d prefer a single genocide over a genocide, all foreign aid being pulled, dumping vital irrigation reserves, and more.
That “foreign aid” was literally genocide fuel.
This is both disingenuous and extremely reductive.
The majority of foreign aid in the past few years has gone to Ukraine. It also goes into disease prevention, such as the Ebola outbreak, and fighting aids and other diseases.
Are there issues? Absolutely. But those issues are more about the US not caring that it destroys existing infrastructure (for instance Haitis ability to grow food) while replacing it with dependence on the US.
“Yeah we got a genocide but at least we don’t have a genocide!”
How about the start of two genocides?
And yet they did nothing to stop the genocides of brown and queer people in America happening now.
I guess only one genocide matters. But then that’s been clear to the Sudanese for years now.
But then that’s been clear to the Sudanese for years now.
I mean does America have anything to do with that? Your problem is with the Emirates for supporting that genocide.
Yes. Yes it does. The fact that you didn’t even bother to find out just reinforces what I said. Only one genocide matters to certain people.
Okay this was an interesting and informative read but it does nothing to contradict my point. The article is arguing that America didn’t do enough to stop the genocide in Sudan, not that it’s in any way directly supporting the RSF.
What are you even talking about now?
This is what I said:
I guess only one genocide matters. But then that’s been clear to the Sudanese for years now.
That has nothing to do with supporting anyone. Exactly the opposite. People who need support are getting none. Because their genocide does not matter to the world. Which is the same thing that will happen when the genocide of queer people in the U.S. reaches that level.
Because queer people don’t matter and if they die, it doesn’t matter. Even if they’re Palestinian. Any Palestinian-American who gets put in a camp for being queer? Who cares when Biden supported the only genocide that’s apparently worth caring about?
At this point, some people have become walking textbook trolley problems, where to make a choice that makes you moral in one dimension you become a monster in all the others and make everyone worse in the process. But your conscience is safe, thank you for that.
it is safe because i didn’t allow myself to reduce supporting genocide to a trolley problem.
Reduce? You people spent months reducing all other issues that affect billions of people well into the future like fighting climate change or keeping civil rights or access to healthcare or labour rights or all 900 pages of project 2025 to the one issue where you have
nonegative leverage either way by voting for president.You’re the one dumbing down political debate to a single issue, I just framed it in a way that captures the pattern of hundreds of sterile debates I’ve seen online: you can choose to soil your conscience by collectively choosing to avert disaster or let disaster happen and get nothing in return (probably even worse) for your one cause.
And the worst part is your vote should not even have been decisive, it should have been easier to get 10% of undecided normies to compensate your reluctant 1%, but they are depoliticized and don’t care if they live in fascism or not anymore.
and that’s my prerogative as a voter. are you here to shame me some more? about the genocide i won’t overlook to vote for kamala harris? the same kamala harris who reversed her position on fracking? who wanted to fund nato even harder? you’re gonna tell me she represented a positive position on climate change?? and bath-tub of collard green kamala harris is not doing a damn thing for civil rights, so where are you coming from with this?
Eh, I’m venting at this point, as I wrote before, it’s not your even your fault, y’all were probably
ventinggrieving too over months of war crimes, it’s the uninformed normies who don’t care and don’t understand that decided this.This person basically just told you they don’t give a shit about anything but one single genocide. Other genocides, like ones in the U.S.? Don’t matter. Other genocides in other parts of the world? Don’t matter. Climate change potentially killing off the entire species? Don’t matter.
Which is why single-issue voters are just abhorrent people.
Think the Democrats would build Gaza a Lago?
No, they’d just quietly fund the Israeli plan for the same result.
Hey they would at least condemned Israel’s actions
Excuse me while I go cry in the corner about how fucked we are
Based on the smirking Vampire Matt Miller, the US would be “concerned” and would be “looking into that”
It ain’t over, just another chapter in the long struggle for freedom.
Do you know which politician has taken the most money from Israel? I think that he was happy to support their genocide, and his vice president was no different.
Trump is absolutely a nightmare but trying to pretend that Democrats weren’t also a nightmare on this issue is ridiculous. The halls of Congress are full of Israeli flags. There is no voting to help. Palestinians meaningfully possible.
Sometimes you have to choose the lesser evil, and you did good in the difference.
and sometimes you have a conscience that doesn’t allow you to rationalize away complicity in genocide
You are rationalizing away your complicity in the two genocides that are happening in the U.S. right now. To the point that you’ve denied that they are happening in the very recent past.
“I voted for Kamala to prevent my own gay daughter from being part of Trump’s genocide.”
Yes, that is one of the two genocides you are claiming is not happening. You don’t need to remind me.
If your choice increases the magnitude of the genocide, how could it reduce your complicity?
‘if if if’ nevermind what is and has been happening… a party should lose support for genocide, especially when that side is ostensibly for social justice.
Again, it’s not a matter of support, it’s a matter of chosing the lesser evil to reduce the potential negative impact. Similarly, if the only way to prevent far right from getting elected is to vote for the right, you would rather not participate in preventing the far right from getting elected?
if two parties are both ignoring the population, maybe a third party should be considered a more serious option… this settling for lesser of two evils amounts to a lack of vision- have you have stopped believing in accountability? is it merely impossible and pointless to think about?
lol cope
