• DustLuke@lemmy.dbzer0.com
    3·
    1 天前

    Instead of being in prison, they were dying out off hunger and concentration camps… There are idiots supporting US, and hypocrites supporting china…

  • prime_number_314159@lemmy.world
    4·
    1 天前

    1970 was during the cultural revolution. In that year, the world population was 3.68 billion, and the population if China was just shy of 830 million - China had 22% of the world’s population, so if they held (only) 20% of the world’s prisoners, they’d have a lower than average incarceration rate.

    The same is not true for the US today, we have less than 5% of the world’s population today.

  • veganbtw@lemmy.mlOP
    18·
    2 天前

    ITT: Liberals who assume that evil Chinese MUST be lying about their statistics but the above board whites of the USA are not.

    • whoisearth@lemmy.ca
      15·
      2 天前

      It’s too hilarious it can’t be intentional that the top country not America is El Salvador which is where you’re questionably sending all your black and brown people.

        • Zink@programming.dev
          3·
          2 天前

          I went to business school in the US about a decade ago (stayed full time engineer and happy about it) and I can absolutely see business schools unironically studying the process of privatizing and offshoring prisons as it relates to other more ethical and humane enterprises.

    • HiddenLayer555@lemmy.mlEnglish
      28·
      3 天前

      Interesting how it’s southern states at the top eh?

      Can’t have anything to do with the fact that the US legally allows prisoner slavery right?

      Winder what the race ratio of the prison population is.

      This is the country routinely accusing other countries of having “prison camps.”

      • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
        9·
        2 天前

        Interesting how it’s southern states at the top eh?

        Legit amazed California wasn’t higher on the list. They’ve been doing mass-incarceration at an industrial scale since the 70s. But I guess the population is big enough that the per-capita statistics work out.

        States like Alabama, Louisiana, and Oklahoma have such small and anemic populations and dedicate so much of their domestic budget to incarceration that they’re basically giant publicly subsidized slave plantations.

    • Ziglin (it/they)@lemmy.worldEnglish
      2·
      2 天前

      Worthwhile note to people too lazy to click on the link is that this is the 2021 version. In June 2024 (which is linked at the top of the linked article) the numbers look a little different but not much better for the US.

        • sexy_peach@feddit.orgEnglish
          7·
          3 天前

          I thought the states were being compared to other countries. Didn’t look properly on the phone.

            • sexy_peach@feddit.org
              3·
              3 天前

              Yes but that doesn’t really say much. We know it’s bad in the US. If all German states were bad that would still only tell you that in average it’s bad in Germany

              • pyre@lemmy.world
                8·
                2 天前

                not really. the fact that Louisiana has nearly double the rate of Oregon is significant. so is the fact that racist southern states are at the top and are the ones beating the us average.

          • LwL@lemmy.world
            2·
            3 天前

            They are, and I agree it’s misleading. It’s implying that it’s somehow shocking that the individual states of the county with the highest incarceration rate in the world also have a high incarceration rate. If it was absolute numbers, it would maybe make a point. As it is, it’s stating the extremely obvious and framing it as “look, it’s even worse than you thought”.

            • Hackworth@sh.itjust.works
              9·
              2 天前

              It shows which US states contribute more to the US incarceration rate and clearly shows that even those that contribute the least are above the majority of the nations’ incarceration rates. The latter is not obvious without visualizing the data in this way.

            • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
              3·
              2 天前

              If it was absolute numbers, it would maybe make a point.

              If you have a population with 10M people and 20,000 of them are prisoners, that’s significantly less concerning than a country with 100,000 people of which 10,000 are prisoners. You can’t make an apples-to-apples comparison between Texas and Wyoming with raw head-count.

              it’s somehow shocking that the individual states of the county with the highest incarceration rate in the world also have a high incarceration rate

              It’s shocking that the state of Louisiana has a full 2% of its population in jail. That’s twice the US national baseline.

              • LwL@lemmy.world
                3·
                2 天前

                Yes, but that is not how the graph is framed. It’s framed as “look, if we put US states on a graph with other countries, they have such a high incarceration rate that there are almost no countries even on the graph!”

                If it was honest and just trying to compare the incarceration rate of US states amongst each other (and the national average) it wouldn’t be titled “[…] in U.S. states and all countries […]”. It’s a clearly manipulative title.

                The reason that a graph with this title could maybe make a point if it was absolute numbers is that most U.S. states’ population is less than most countries, so if individual states were still high on such a graph, that would be shocking.

                • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
                  3·
                  2 天前

                  It’s framed as “look, if we put US states on a graph with other countries, they have such a high incarceration rate that there are almost no countries even on the graph!”

                  It’s certainly possible that you have one big state with a high incarceration rate - Texas or California for instance - that’s throwing off the national average. States are free to set their own penal process. It’s not a given that every state has a globe-shattering incarceration rate.

                  Saying “It’s not just one or two states with astronomical incarceration rates, its the whole country contributing to the total” indicates something notable about the politics and culture of the country as a whole.

                  Wyoming could have an incarceration rate of 0% without affecting America’s position as a carceral state. That it doesn’t is meaningful.

      • maniclucky@lemmy.world
        10·
        3 天前

        How is a per-capita incarceration rate, with a reference to the superset included directly on the plot, misleading? Other than including more than El Salvador for the sake of external reference, which is almost certainly a size issue.

          • then_three_more@lemmy.world
            22·
            3 天前

            They are (which is the point) the countries are in orange USA (as an overall average) and el Salvador are the only countries that make it on to the list.

            • sexy_peach@feddit.org
              2·
              3 天前

              Well yes because the US as a whole has a high number. If you added cities they would have even more in the high numbers. What’s the point about that?

              • maniclucky@lemmy.world
                8·
                2 天前

                Because US states have populations and areas comparable to other countries. Just the US topping the charts is expected. How many states you have to get through to see other countries is interesting.

                • sexy_peach@feddit.orgEnglish
                  2·
                  2 天前

                  See? This makes it look like it’s as misleading as I said. This is prisoners per 100.000, that means it doesn’t matter how populous a state or country is. That’s exactly why comparing states with countries is misleading. For every state that has a higher number than the US average there’s states that have a lower number.

  • godlessworm [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    39·
    3 天前

    UHHH THATS JUST BECAUSE CHINA IS LYING HAHAA YOU REALLY BELIEVE THEIR OWN NUMBERS LOL??? oh third parties provided that data…. UHH WELL THEY DONT HAVE IPHONES AND THEYRE ALL POOR. oh… wait, they do have iphones now and china has a stronger middle working class than the US and canada?

    hold on i need to go watch my tv for a couple hours to get a few more talking points but im gonna come back to this post and fucking own you

    • slaneesh_is_right@lemmy.orgEnglish
      3·
      2 天前

      CHINA ONLY PRODUCES GARBAGE BTW. oh what? They have actually quality products, they just ship out cheap garbage to suckers?

    • UnderpantsWeevil@lemmy.worldEnglish
      22·
      2 天前

      The trick is to always assume “China is lying about its internal statistics” and inflate whatever number they give by an arbitrary large percentage. 1.7M is obviously an under-count because the CCP is always lying about everything.

      Also, you can do some broad brush “Everyone in Tibet, Xinjiang, Hong Kong, North Korea, and Taiwan are prisoners of the Chinese state, so actually that’s over 60M people” napkin math to make the numbers look better.

      • wpb@lemmy.world
        7·
        2 天前

        I think this is a good rule of thumb in general. When statistics agree with my preconceived notions, I consider them trustworthy, and if not, I assume that reality lines up with what I expect. For example, the referendum in held in the Baltics about leaving the USSR ended in favor of leaving, which I think is a good example of a trustworthy statistic. But the subsequent referendum in the remaining members ended in favor of staying in the USSR, and I think that’s a little suspicious, don’t you?

        • davel [he/him]@lemmy.mlEnglish
          7·
          2 天前

          When statistics agree with my preconceived notions, I consider them trustworthy, and if not, I assume that reality lines up with what I expect.

          I… thought you were being sarcastic. This is an obvious and severe flaw to have in one’s rational thinking.

          prejudice (noun)
          1. The act or state of holding unreasonable preconceived judgments or convictions.
          2. An adverse judgment or opinion formed unfairly or without knowledge of the facts.

        • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
          7·
          2 天前

          Why would it be suspicious? Different members of the USSR had different national conditions, some were quite nationalist and opposed being a part of the USSR, some were more internationalist and wished to retain the Soviet system. In the following years, there have been many studies verifying that of those who lived through Socialism, the majority wish it had remained over the devastation Capitalism brought to the majority of people.

          • wpb@lemmy.world
            7·
            2 天前

            It’s suspicious because it disagrees with my preconceived notions about communism.

              • wpb@lemmy.world
                6·
                2 天前

                See now there you’ve made a crucial error. You’re recommending a book which, while it has some criticism of the specifics of how the USSR implemented socialism, on the whole it’s quite positive about the idea of establishing a dictatorship of the proletariat in general. Obviously that disagrees with my preconceived notion that humans are greedy, and that therefore capitalism is good, so I would never read a source that contradicts this, because I would have to dismiss most of it outright. And that’s just a hassle.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                  6·
                  2 天前

                  I don’t follow, the author being positive about the working class running society rather than privledged elites having dictatorial control a la Capitalism doesn’t mean you need to dismiss the facts it brings up outright. Are you saying that, as someone biased towards Capitalism, you dismiss any criticism of Capitalism and any positive opinions on Socialism outright? If so, I can’t imagine how you live your life in other areas that contradict your current understanding!

                  To return, I don’t at all believe it’s suspect that the majority of people wished to retain Socialism, and this fact is further cemented by this same general notion being repeated over and over again in polling.

                • Cowbee [he/they]@lemmy.ml
                  5·
                  2 天前

                  Doesn’t matter. I have spoken to people from the Soviet Union. I don’t personally need to be from the Soviet Union to read on its history, or the devaststion that came from its dissolution, and you saying you or someone you knew was from it doesn’t invalidate those I have spoken to and the research I’ve done. It’s lazy, anecdotes matter very little in the face of hard metrics and facts.

      • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
        6·
        2 天前

        No, Occupied China doesn’t control DPRK or ROC

        If we play that game we can’t trust American numbers either so the whole conversation becomes pointless

      • Bloomcole@lemmy.world
        7·
        2 天前

        I’m sure he hasn’t got a clue how many Chinese there are, or where China is.
        All that matters is China bad, commie bad

      • ILikeBoobies@lemmy.ca
        4·
        2 天前

        Per capita is misleading, it over represents low populations and under represents high populations

        When you use it, it makes Canadian cities appear more violent than American cities as an example