Serious illnesses can be horrifying to watch someone go through and poverty routinely seperates loved ones.
Standing by someone in a terrible - perhaps terminal - condition is absolutely an incredible challenge and shouldn’t be dismissed as anything less than that.
A big reason you want to stand by your partner in perilous circumstances is because you want them to be there for you. And another big reason is because you might not get any more moments together than this, so make them last.
In a place like America, where sick days are a luxury and health care can still bankrupt you, being at someone’s bedside is a cross to bare. Be happy when you’re not carrying it. Don’t be so quick to judge when someone else can’t.
I literally was a caregiver for ten years (full time six of those years). My wife recently died. I was astonished by the number of people who told me to leave her. wtf is wrong with people. You don’t abandon people who are suffering.
Damn. You’re a strong person. I’m sorry you had to go through that, but I’m sure you staying by her side made those years more beareble for her. I’d like to think I’d do the same, but I hope I never have to find out…
I mean depending on your situation that could be the best option. Option one, stay with your partner, watch them die and experience that trauma, then when they are dead you’re on the hook for all their medical debt, and you may have lost your job for taking so many days off. Option two, leave your partner, live with the guilt of that, avoid the trauma and inescapable life long debt. Neither option is good. It would be nice to have the time off and not be burdened with an enormous amount of debt but that’s just not the world we live in.
It would have been objective the better idea for me to abandon my wife with this logic. Because caring for her was hard and definitely shortened my life and left me heartbroken.
But the logic is vile. You do not abandon your loved ones when they are in need
Yeah, I hate these stories for the amount of Big Ethical Talk it beings out in people. “I would stand by my partner no matter what” is the “I could fight a bear” of emotional labor. Unless you’ve had a serious illness or been very close to someone who has (not parents or siblings, a voluntary relationship), then you just really don’t know what you’re talking about.
Well as an argument I can agree with you. There is a lot to be said for “you don’t know until it happens”.
That being said, we aren’t discussing the broad strokes, we’re looking at this meme. And from context and wording shows not pragmatism, but self centered behavior(please note the intentional distinction between selfish behavior and self centered behavior).
Yeah, exactly. I don’t see this as black and white as it’s made out to be. Where’s the point in cancer or another serious disease ruining two lives? Sure, sometimes people leave for selfish reasons. But protecting yourself is not selfish, it’s essential for survival. If you stay and support a sick person, that makes you a good person. Leaving someone because you cannot handle dealing with the disease emotionally or financially doesn’t automatically make you a bad person.
That whole “'til death do us part” is some ancient bullshit. People change, situations change. Sticking with a bad situation because you once said “in good times and bad times” even if it is destroying you is some toxic-ass bullshit.
Oh fuck off. I am not being contrarian. I am just too old to believe in absolutes. Things change, people change. That’s just life. And having seen multiple people die of cancer over the years, that shit is no fucking joke and will absolutely ruin the lives of everyone involved. If someone just cannot handle that, it’s OK to leave that awful situation. Yes, it does suck even more for the person who’s actually ill. But I really don’t see a point in ruining multiple lives because of one person’s illness. Again, if people want to step up and be there, that is amazing and laudable. But if you step away simply to protect yourself, you will probably feel bad and wish you could do more. But sometimes you just can’t. Once more: that’s simply how life is.
Just considering the demographics on this website, there’s a fairly decent chance you’re not older than me. Our experiences may differ.
But just by reading this, it’s pretty clear that we have a different definition of a vow. I’m not sure why you’re so up in arms about this.
I called you contrarian because you’re in here arguing a point I didn’t even make. I didn’t say that I would hold you to a vow nor that I would judge you if you broke your vow.
I said that over the last ~50 years of me watching people I have seen a general pattern of the lessening of the value of these intangibles.
Sounds like we’re the same age. And what you describe sounds like the general impression people get as they age. Morals decline, nothing means anything anymore, blabla. That’s been literally said throughout the history of the human race. My experience at least with what people on the internet argue (and not actual behavior) is a tendency towards moral absolutes. Which is something I am strictly against and I might have picked the wrong comment to start my soap box rant.
I didn’t say anything about morality declining or nothing meaning anything anymore.
I feel like I’m just repeating myself in every one of these replies.
People are no better now. Morality is definitely not worse now. Overall, humans are more accepting of each other now than they have been in most of human history.
My comment is only on the perceived value of a vow. And how that is tied to the perceived value of one’s word.
This isn’t generational, nor is it me saying the kids need to get better, because in fact I think the kids are doing very well all things considered.
However, these kids are also growing up inside a system that feels like it’s under collapse. Where the only true physical rewards in life come to those who easily break their word or do not consider a vow to be beyond all circumstance.
I think if someone had to take care of me like that in this world, I’d just off myself to be honest. I mean, I was already contemplating it some months ago, and seeing how my job stops me from doing anything, it’s on the table, obviously.
Serious illnesses can be horrifying to watch someone go through and poverty routinely seperates loved ones.
Standing by someone in a terrible - perhaps terminal - condition is absolutely an incredible challenge and shouldn’t be dismissed as anything less than that.
A big reason you want to stand by your partner in perilous circumstances is because you want them to be there for you. And another big reason is because you might not get any more moments together than this, so make them last.
In a place like America, where sick days are a luxury and health care can still bankrupt you, being at someone’s bedside is a cross to bare. Be happy when you’re not carrying it. Don’t be so quick to judge when someone else can’t.
I literally was a caregiver for ten years (full time six of those years). My wife recently died. I was astonished by the number of people who told me to leave her. wtf is wrong with people. You don’t abandon people who are suffering.
Damn. You’re a strong person. I’m sorry you had to go through that, but I’m sure you staying by her side made those years more beareble for her. I’d like to think I’d do the same, but I hope I never have to find out…
Eh, I was just doing what I had to do for the person I loved. But thank you. I hope you don’t have to find out either. It is really cursed knowledge
That, Idfk. One thing to collapse under the pressure. Another thing to get up in someone’s business and say something so vile.
I mean depending on your situation that could be the best option. Option one, stay with your partner, watch them die and experience that trauma, then when they are dead you’re on the hook for all their medical debt, and you may have lost your job for taking so many days off. Option two, leave your partner, live with the guilt of that, avoid the trauma and inescapable life long debt. Neither option is good. It would be nice to have the time off and not be burdened with an enormous amount of debt but that’s just not the world we live in.
That’s pretty gross, dude.
It would have been objective the better idea for me to abandon my wife with this logic. Because caring for her was hard and definitely shortened my life and left me heartbroken.
But the logic is vile. You do not abandon your loved ones when they are in need
Love and respect are not like columns in a fucking spreadsheet.
Yeah, I hate these stories for the amount of Big Ethical Talk it beings out in people. “I would stand by my partner no matter what” is the “I could fight a bear” of emotional labor. Unless you’ve had a serious illness or been very close to someone who has (not parents or siblings, a voluntary relationship), then you just really don’t know what you’re talking about.
Anyone can fight a bear. Just not for longer than a couple of seconds mostly. But that’s no reason to give up on your loved ones before even trying.
Can you shed some light over this part
Well as an argument I can agree with you. There is a lot to be said for “you don’t know until it happens”.
That being said, we aren’t discussing the broad strokes, we’re looking at this meme. And from context and wording shows not pragmatism, but self centered behavior(please note the intentional distinction between selfish behavior and self centered behavior).
Yeah, exactly. I don’t see this as black and white as it’s made out to be. Where’s the point in cancer or another serious disease ruining two lives? Sure, sometimes people leave for selfish reasons. But protecting yourself is not selfish, it’s essential for survival. If you stay and support a sick person, that makes you a good person. Leaving someone because you cannot handle dealing with the disease emotionally or financially doesn’t automatically make you a bad person.
Unless you have made a conscious vow otherwise.
That whole “'til death do us part” is some ancient bullshit. People change, situations change. Sticking with a bad situation because you once said “in good times and bad times” even if it is destroying you is some toxic-ass bullshit.
Contrarian bullshit is so chic.
Oh fuck off. I am not being contrarian. I am just too old to believe in absolutes. Things change, people change. That’s just life. And having seen multiple people die of cancer over the years, that shit is no fucking joke and will absolutely ruin the lives of everyone involved. If someone just cannot handle that, it’s OK to leave that awful situation. Yes, it does suck even more for the person who’s actually ill. But I really don’t see a point in ruining multiple lives because of one person’s illness. Again, if people want to step up and be there, that is amazing and laudable. But if you step away simply to protect yourself, you will probably feel bad and wish you could do more. But sometimes you just can’t. Once more: that’s simply how life is.
Just considering the demographics on this website, there’s a fairly decent chance you’re not older than me. Our experiences may differ.
But just by reading this, it’s pretty clear that we have a different definition of a vow. I’m not sure why you’re so up in arms about this.
I called you contrarian because you’re in here arguing a point I didn’t even make. I didn’t say that I would hold you to a vow nor that I would judge you if you broke your vow.
I said that over the last ~50 years of me watching people I have seen a general pattern of the lessening of the value of these intangibles.
Sounds like we’re the same age. And what you describe sounds like the general impression people get as they age. Morals decline, nothing means anything anymore, blabla. That’s been literally said throughout the history of the human race. My experience at least with what people on the internet argue (and not actual behavior) is a tendency towards moral absolutes. Which is something I am strictly against and I might have picked the wrong comment to start my soap box rant.
I didn’t say anything about morality declining or nothing meaning anything anymore.
I feel like I’m just repeating myself in every one of these replies.
People are no better now. Morality is definitely not worse now. Overall, humans are more accepting of each other now than they have been in most of human history.
My comment is only on the perceived value of a vow. And how that is tied to the perceived value of one’s word.
This isn’t generational, nor is it me saying the kids need to get better, because in fact I think the kids are doing very well all things considered.
However, these kids are also growing up inside a system that feels like it’s under collapse. Where the only true physical rewards in life come to those who easily break their word or do not consider a vow to be beyond all circumstance.
The concept of no-fault divorce must infuriate you.
The concept of reading through a comment and understanding it before writing a vacuous reply must terrify you.
excuse me but this is contrarian horseshit. as a connoisseur…
I think if someone had to take care of me like that in this world, I’d just off myself to be honest. I mean, I was already contemplating it some months ago, and seeing how my job stops me from doing anything, it’s on the table, obviously.
Americans owned roughly $31.63 trillion in foreign assets by the end of 2022
shrug