• xxce2AAb@feddit.dk
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    1 day ago

    What does Hellman’s have to do with mayonnaise though? That nitrogen-pumped piss is mayo the same way those American individually wrapped slices of milk-plastic is ‘cheese’.

    • Ms. ArmoredThirteen@lemmy.zip
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      1 day ago

      I’m going to continue to die on this hill: American cheese slices typically have cheddar cheese as the very first ingredient. They are made of real cheese, dairy, and an emulsifier. Basically think of a cheese sauce with a higher melt temp but nobody seems to claim fondue is fake cheese

      Are they good though? That’s subjective, I think they go great on burgers, grilled cheese, and ramen. Are they plastic or use fake cheese? No. If you want to be accurate while high horsing about it you could call them watered down congealed cheese though

      Edit to add: the individually wrapped ones are an ecological nightmare. The deli deluxe ones are higher quality, not individually wrapped, and don’t even cost that much more. Or just buy not Kraft they don’t need the money anyway and other companies make American cheese slices too. You can even find emulsified cheese slices for other types of cheeses if you want variety on your burgers and grilled cheese

      • Skunk@jlai.lu
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        1 day ago

        but nobody seems to claim fondue is fake cheese

        Fondue is literally just shredded cheese. The typical Swiss fondue, la moitié-moitié (half half) is 50% Gruyère and 50% Vacherin + a little bit of potato starch if it’s an industrial one (otherwise it’s only cheese and you add potato starch if you want, it’s only to have a better texture and not mandatory).

        Other types are just different cheeses, from a single one up to a mix of 3, varying from regional preferences.

        Ingredients of an industrial fondue found in any Swiss supermarket:

        • balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one
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          21 hours ago

          You’re responding to someone whose point is really clear but to quote an article on the history of American cheese:

          The first step in transforming American cheese into the distinct entity it is today can be traced back to Switzerland in 1911 when Walter Gerber and Fritz Stettler developed the world’s first processed cheese by shredding Emmentaler cheese and heating it with sodium citrate into a firm, unified substance upon its cooling.

          This swiss process was then picked up by a canadian by the name of Kraft looking to make a cheese with longer shelf stability for the purpose of being left open at delis for slicing. It was made by melting cheddar chunks together. And stirring.

          The term american comes from British snobbiness.

          The inability to legally call it cheese comes from the natural cheese lobby. If it matches this criteria it cannot be called cheese:

          a stable concoction of natural cheese cheese bits mixed with emulsifying agents [used to make] a homogenous plastic mass.

          That having been said american cheese is disgusting and anyone who purposely eats it is insane to me.

          • Skunk@jlai.lu
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            19 hours ago

            So the term “Swiss cheese” for those industrial blocks is legitimate, it’s our fault 😔

          • Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe
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            18 hours ago

            American cheese is fine, don’t conflate the real cheese (which is just Swiss without aging or bacteria) with Kraft American Cheese Food product.

            I’ve had American cheese that wasn’t the processed thing most people think of, just a cheese made from dairy, like any other cheese.

            The problem is in labeling - since American cheese can be anything from real cheese to the processed stuff, people don’t know what they’re getting unless they know the producer.

          • Skunk@jlai.lu
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            19 hours ago

            Sad panda noise 😔

            But if you can find the cheese it is really easy to do and homemade one as there’s 2 ingredients; cheese and cheese. Just use a machine to shred it because doing it by hand is not fun.

            Since I don’t drink and don’t want to go to another shop to buy shit white wine, I replaced it with cheap blond alcohol free beer, it’s perfect.

            • Digitalprimate@lemmy.world
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              19 hours ago

              A cheap blonde beer is a very good idea, thanks! We have premade mixes (and premade in a bag) here in NL, but I’ll be by myself tonight,. I will eat the entire pot of fondue myself. Which I think we all agree, is a bad idea.

              • Skunk@jlai.lu
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                17 hours ago

                I don’t see any problem, say the guy who ate one (400g) alone 3 days ago 🙄

      • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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        21 hours ago

        Kraft Singles literally aren’t cheese though. Go back and read the label. They’re not allowed to call it cheese.

        It gives American cheese a bad name as there are some great deli cheeses here that are 10000x better than Kraft

      • Digitalprimate@lemmy.world
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        19 hours ago

        They are not, objectively good, but they are very useful as an emulsifier for cheese sauces. One kraft slice can emulsify a liter or more.

        That said, there is something nostalgic about a grilled cheese using cheap American white bread and Kraft slices.

        • Dhs92@piefed.social
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          18 hours ago

          They make a great emulsifier because they are cheese + emulsifier already. They use sodium citrate to emulsify cheddar and other cheeses into American.

          You can buy sodium citrate and use that instead

          • Digitalprimate@lemmy.world
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            39 minutes ago

            I have a jar of sodium citrate in my pantry and have only pulled it out once since I bought it. I need to be more proactive about my pantry!

        • balance8873@lemmy.myserv.one
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          21 hours ago

          Apparently the name was provided by British aristocrats. What do you think you, a nobody, are doing by sullying the name set by your betters?

      • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Then die lonely.

        It’s not worth fighting someone over fake garbage. At least you’re on a hill, away from where I’m enjoying real cheese.

      • WIZARD POPE💫@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        but nobody seems to claim fondue is fake cheese.

        Afaik you make fondue from cheese. You put the different kinds of cheese in and melt them with some wine. That’s way closer to just melted cheese than whatever american cheese is

      • TJA!@sh.itjust.works
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        1 day ago

        the individually wrapped ones are an ecological nightmare.

        But you also have to buy according to your usage pattern. I very rarely use these cheese slices. And the only alternative to the individually wrapped ones here is a pack of ~12. They usually go bad in my fridge before I could use more than 3-4 slices. The individually wrapped ones hold up much longer.

        • Onomatopoeia@lemmy.cafe
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          18 hours ago

          Cheese freezes pretty well, depending on how you intend to use it later (most cheese get a little dry/crumbly).

          They must be defrosted gently, unless you intend it to be melted.

          • TJA!@sh.itjust.works
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            17 hours ago

            That’s good to know. Since I buy this type of cheese for it’s melting properties, that won’t be an issue.

            Thanks for that information

      • stray@pawb.social
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        1 day ago

        Are they good though?

        Really depends on the brand. Some of them really make a burger pop with a rich cheddar flavor and creamy texture.

        That’s a good point about the plastic waste in your edit though. I don’t eat a lot of cheese because I try to limit animal products, but I feel like they’re usually separated with wax paper here. I’m told there are very high taxes on plastic packaging for the manufacturer.

    • stray@pawb.social
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      1 day ago

      I can’t find any reference to nitrogen used in Hellman’s mayonnaise. Do you perhaps mean that they fill the airspace at the top of the jar with nitrogen to displace oxygen and increase shelf-life? I believe that’s a very safe and common practice in food packaging.

      • SpaceNoodle@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        Noooo! Nitrogen is poison! If you breathe pure nitrogen, you’ll die!

        inb4 libtard scientists saying “hurr durr air is 70% nitrogen” yeah right LIARS

      • CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world
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        1 day ago

        They are just ignorant and mouthing off.

        MERICAN FOOD BAD. AMERICAN CHEESE NOT REAL 🙄

        Anyone, who says American cheese isn’t real probably can’t explain what an emulsifier is.

        • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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          1 day ago

          But American food is bad. It’s very low hanging fruit, but American food can barely be called food at all.

          • CallMeAnAI@lemmy.world
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            23 hours ago

            No, it’s not. You people are regurgitating propaganda.

            You people conflate the availability of junk food with unavailability of a wealth of cheap globalized fresh food available to all but a small portion of the population that would make sultans past blush with envy.

            And there is the other end where NYC, Chicago, and LA go toe to toe with some of the best food on the planet.

            But yeah, we have a lot of McDonald’s too so that must mean that’s all we got 🙄.

            • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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              9 hours ago

              It’s not propaganda, your food is just shit. Worse than even some third world countries I’ve visited.

              Oh sure, I could walk into a privately owned restaurant and get a well cooked meal, like anywhere else in the world. But I’m not talking about exceptional restaurant food. I’m talking about regular food a regular person can buy from a regular supermarket.

              A lot of your food is straight up illegal here in Europe because your FDA thinks it’s just fine to have potentially cancer-causing ingredients in food. The FDA is only just now considering banning an ingredient you use in sliced bread that yoga mats are made of. If there is a version of an American product here in Europe, then it’s always a version that contains a fraction of the filler ingredients you have over there, usually significantly reduced sugar (or no sugar at all, because apparently your country just loves adding sugar to things where it doesn’t belong) and is always superior for it.

              Hell, even junk food like McDonald’s and Burger King is forced to be reasonable with their ingredients or they will literally be banned from doing business in the EU. Oh no! tHe wHOle WorLD BeLIEVes 'mURica is Shit! Cry me a fucking river.

          • stray@pawb.social
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            24 hours ago

            I disagree. I really like biscuits and gravy, Taco Bell chalupas, banana bread, and fried okra, just to list a few.

      • xxce2AAb@feddit.dk
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        1 day ago

        No, not at all. That I’d have no issue with. Now, Hellman’s makes a number of different variants IIRC, and I can’t tell you which particular one this was as I haven’t bought it since, but: I mean ‘pumped’ as in ‘foamy’ or perhaps a better term would be ‘areated’. Filled with visible bubbles of some gas - I don’t actually know whether it was nitrogen or something else, but nitrogen would make sense due to the same reasons you pointed out. I suspect it was done as a shrinkflation strategy to sell the same apparent volume of product, whilst saving on material production inputs. It certainly did nothing beneficial for the texture. I don’t really want my “mayonnaise” to feel like poorly whipped cream.

        I’ve seen the same thing done for some cream cheeses, and likely for the same reason. I don’t buy those more than once either.

        • roscoe@lemmy.dbzer0.com
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          18 hours ago

          Those whipped cream cheeses are easy as fuck to spread on a bagel with the shitty plastic knives they give you. Same stuff, just made spreadable. You can just tear off a chunk and dip it if you want. No change to the taste and the difference in texture is negligible because the bagel is 99% of that.

          This is one of the rare processed food “innovations” that’s actually good. Regular cream cheese is only for cooking now.

        • stray@pawb.social
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          24 hours ago

          Yeah, I’ve seen that kind of whipped cream cheese as well. They’re always trying some new gimmick. Which I guess on one hand is nice because innovation, but mostly I just think they want people to buy it because it’s shiny and new.

    • prole@lemmy.blahaj.zone
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      21 hours ago

      same way those American individually wrapped slices of milk-plastic is ‘cheese’.

      I hate that I feel the need to chime in every time I see this, but no. Kraft Singles are not only garbage food, they’re literally not allowed to call it cheese.

      There are some great American cheeses, especially for sandwiches. I really like Cooper Sharp.

        • stray@pawb.social
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          1 day ago

          Hellmann’s:

          Rapeseed oil (78%), free range pasteurised EGG and EGG yolk (8,9%), water, spirit vinegar, sugar, salt, lemon juice concentrate, flavouring, antioxidant (calcium disodium EDTA), paprika extract.

          Zaanse:

          Rape seed oil (80%), natural vinegar, EGG (6%), water, sugar, salt, MUSTERD (water, MUSTERD seeds, vinegar, salt, sugar), preservative (potassium sorbate), flavours (SOY protein and CELERY), dye (beta carotene), antioxidant (E385).

          Sounds like I’d prefer Zaanse’s flavor profile better since they’ve got celery and mustard in there. but I don’t see how Hellmann’s is somehow not mayonnaise when comparing the ingredients.

          • Tattorack@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            Mayonnaise must have mustard in it.

            There are various kinds of “traditional” mayonnaises you can buy in France, and each and every single one of them is made with egg, oil, vinegar, and mustard, because those are the four ingredients required inside of mayonnaise for it to be mayonnaise.

            Hellmann’s doesn’t have mustard, so it’s not mayonnaise.

          • Dakracs@lemmy.world
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            1 day ago

            Zaanse is the best Dutch mayo because it doesn’t have that much sugar in it, Calvé for instance has more than double the amount of grams per 100ml.

            I see Hellmann’s is about the same sugar wise as Zaanse.

            As a Belgian I grew up with less sweet mayo, like max half a gram of sugar per 100 grams of mayo. So often mayo from other countries taste too sweet.