Israeli and Zionist influence in the USA is a purposeful choice of the American government. It allows the American government to circumvent many domestic and international laws by allowing Israeli firms to do the spying and dirty work for them. Israel is essentially a rogue state that is entirely controlled by the American intelligence apparatus (and therefore, American capital). This has created a feedback loop of constantly reinforcing settler colonialism and American economic extraction of the Middle East. If America withdrew support to Israel, this feedback loop would cease and Israel would be greatly diminished or completely collapse.
Saying Israel controls America is simply wrong, stop saying this. I will remove your post. ✌️
edit: altered title for clarification and to avoid nonsensical semantic arguments
there’s a nazi “zog” conspiracy theory where the tail is supposedly completely in control of the dog, and this is obviously not true.
then there’s whatever aipac is doing and there’s absolutely infighting like when they redistricted bowman out of a seat, and it seems weird not to call that proximate cause israeli interests rather than american interests because the US doesn’t give a fuck about a couple congressional reps half-assing criticism but not actually impeding the genocide.
There is also an attempt to launder America’s reputation by saying Israel is in control. Anything innocent little America did in the middle east can be attributed to Israel with this framing, which is what the American intelligence apparatus would love everyone to think.
I was accused of this today but like I don’t give a fuck about “laundering America’s reputation” I just think “the U.S. is 100% in control” is just as reductionist and inaccurate as “Israel is actually in control.”
I say shit like “i think the relationship is a little more complicated than it simply being a puppet because it gets away with shit no other U.S. vassal does i.e. sinking the U.S.S. Liberty” and I get accused of ZOG shit which is really
on my end.
America could threaten to withdraw support and “Israel” would fold instantly, but American politicians almost never do this, even when “Israel” acts against their interests. “Israelis” do actually have some influence on America and “Israel” has a degree of autonomy not offered to puppet states. That doesn’t make America less guilty, it’s still the case that they could stop “Israel” at any time. The fact is that they generally don’t, even when it would be in their interests.
Especially when Israel has nukes. If nukes give North Korea autonomy from US control, they definitely give Israel autonomy from the US as well.
Yeah i agree
Ikr, the first people the Trump-II regime went after were anti-Zionist permanent residents and non-citizens, not those who criticized the U.S. Gov. Puppets have leeway in doing crimes on U.S. soil, but none are comparable to Israel.
Israel could do like 10 9/11s and the only consequence they’d see is Current President flying straight there to ask Netanyahu if he’s sure he doesn’t want an 11th
Id call Germany or Ukraine vassal states of the U.S. but i absolutely could not imagine a scenario where like a bunch of AFD nazis blow shit up and the Germans aren’t made to show subservience
…i don’t think anybody on hexbear is saying shit about israel to launder the image of america.
You would be surprised :yea:
But no not usually the 5 years people
i’m confused what the issue is or who this post is directed at then.
if you’re saying you’re gonna delete antisemitic posts, good, i support that. but if in the last 5yrs it hasn’t been an issue, what is this post about?
Dig through the modlog yourself there’s been a lot of garbage lately.
5 years club rise up.
I have a suspicion that in order to have this conversation here any Israel/AIPAC post needs to be signed with “Of course, death to America”
Better yet, append it to all posts. And everyday the top post must be مرگ بار امريكا
Would that be such a bad thing? Of course, death to America.
I yearn for the destruction of America all day, every day. I have a searing hatred for this country that will never die.
And, of course, death to America
Fascism is because of russia and the genocide is because of israel. Obama was also a kenyan spy. See we didn’t do anything /s
Tails don’t have nukes and intelligence agencies. We can do better than thought terminating aphorisms.
i should hope we can do better than nazi conspiracies yes
You also can’t let the nazis be the only one saying the sky is blue. Saying “Israel doesn’t control US politicians” (OPs original title) is absolute bullshit, you and everyone else knows it.
The US left has been ranting about the Israel lobby for decades but now that some on the right recognize it too you’re asking us to stop. Think critically and not reactively.
The “Israel lobby” isn’t just Israelis, is the thing. It’s also the military industrial complex that relies on Israel as an infinite market for bombs and the huge cult of Protestant churches that support Israel as a crusader state and as a harbinger of the End Times.
I never said the relationship entirely one sided to Israel. I’m saying its not one sided at all. Its fraught with contraductions which drives lots of dynamics.
All of those factions both independently support Israel but are also cultivated and supported by Israel as a matter of national security. Its very symbiotic.
What is absolute bullshit is taking the maximally reductionist approach the mods are saying which is a complete puppet state of the US and Israel has no control over the US whatsoever.
I don’t even think it’s correct to even think of the US and Israel as separate entities. The Israel lobby is also a US lobby because Israel is the 51st state. Unlike Europe which has become essentially a neocolony for US export markets and is subservient to US interests, Israel is a second head on the same snake. They’re one nation united by Manifest Destiny+Zionism.
Israel is not the 51st state. It is not the second head of the snake. It is a colony that has heavily invested in the politics of its sponsor empire to ensure its own safety. Basic master/slave dialectic.
What Israel has been doing for the past two years is absolutely not in the US’s interests. Its been an international diplomatic disaster and a gigantic waste of resources and capital. What’s happened is the US collectively forgot it’s really the master in this relationship.
This is pretty much it. Brandon being a husk really meant that what “normally” (and btw, would have still been horrible ethnic cleansing and barbarism) would have ended after a month or two of slaughter (e.g. Reagan) instead became a 2 year genocide. The degree to which “liberal” institutions in the US have de legitimized themselves over this is almost comical, and I think under the truth serum no US politician or figure of note (barring total freaks) would say that what’s happened has been in the US’ interests.
Indeed, the degree to which public speech has been made to “fit” the Israeli policy of genocide means that a lot of American institutions are now at a hinge point where they might be broken and transformed (if you want to be a little
about something so horrible), but to what end of course is yet to be determined.
It’s still (and always will be) socialism or barbarism.
The declining empire faces two choices - peacefully decline over a long period or violently delay collapse until it is impossible.
What Israel has been doing is violently delaying the collapse of the empire, and they have been successful in the short-term even if the long-term won’t be sustainable: Hezbollah was crippled by the pager terror attack, Assad fled Syria and they’re in the process of turning it into another basket case like Libya, and Hamas’s capacity to strike Israel has been degraded to nothing.
For now, Israel has reasserted its (and the US’s) regional dominance. They had to demonstrate that their borders are secure because Israel’s borders are also the US’s borders, and this is directly connected to why the US is in the process of passifying its own border and deploying its own ethnic cleansing campaign that mirrors Israel. Israel bombing all of its neighbors was actually prelude to the US bombing boats in the Caribbean and preparing for war with Venezuela, and probably the rest of Latin America.
That’s why it’s useful to think of them as the same entity, Israel’s behavior over the last two years is mirrored in the US’s own behavior over the past year. The empire is reconfiguring itself in its decline, both heads of the snake are behaving the same.