Looks like redditors have discovered that /r/AskSocialists was taken over by the ACP. But then posts criticizing them have been getting deleted in /r/socialism, too, so seems they’re also in there. Since /r/thedeprogram was shut down it doesn’t seem good for the left on reddit, although at least a bunch of people are aware of the issue now.
I, a communist 100% opposed to their vision and analysis, think it’s good to have a better analysis of exactly where they are wrong. Just “class reductionism” doesn’t really cover it, because it’s a very specific sort of limited scope. Sometimes class reductionism is saying that an analysis limits itself to only class (harmful in the long run, but not terrible to work with), but the ACP limits itself to a narrow view of what class means (worse). They look at only direct industrial production as “value creating” and take the hard stance that arises out of that assumption, and they limit “class relations” to “direct industrial production proles” vs “everyone else.” There is no other mode of dialectics relevant in their eyes. They are anti-identity politics (in the bad way, like anti-Losurdo’s inclusive “class” definition) and ultra about the strategies to be used for the chosen class.
I don’t think I’m directly disagreeing with you or anything, but I do think it’s important to name the exact disagreements or else it’s just throwing terms that not everyone understands. I, for example, don’t actually get what exactly you mean with “maga communism” or “nazbol” or “national socialist” in your comment. I’d guess we agree 100% but, you know, clarification for others is helpful, I hope
IMO an even bigger issue with them is that their primary purpose is to attempt to marry Amerikkkan nationalism with communism. In the 21st century, with the benefit of hindsight, this goes beyond bad analysis and into borderline hitlerism.
From what I’ve learned about them (just online shit, idk, not amerikkkan), this seems like it’s not explicitly a goal, but a result of their ‘direct industrial proles’ vs everyone analysis. Because they truly believe that this is the only contradiction that matters, they strategically don’t push back against American nationalism. It’s what anyone would do with that analysis. It’s just that analysis is completely wrong and horrible lol
IMO that’s a bit too generous, they openly encourage it.
True lol.
Not gonna say you’re wrong because I only see shit online about them, just that everything I’ve seen up to know can be clarified with my analysis. Very open to hearing that they’re also just outright US nationalists, though. Makes em easier to write off
It was briefly mentioned elsewhere in this thread, but not explained in detail. “MAGA Communism” is not a pejorative term for the ACP, it’s an actual strategy/ideology they advocate of courting the MAGA movement and emphasizing “patriotism” (nationalism). The actually describe it as “MAGA Communism”, it isn’t a label applied to them by others.
It’s more or less what you have described, with the addition of explicitly advocating anti-internationalist (and “patriotic” AKA nationalist) and socially conservative positions (among others). If you have the misfortune of having read the things Infrahaz and Hinkle (founders of the party) write, they’re very plainly and proudly nationalists. It goes further than a passive strategic acceptance of nationalism and bigotry. Haz described himself as a “patriotic socialist”. Hinkle described himself as “American PATRIOT, GOD fearing, Pro-FAMILY, Marxist Leninist, Pro-PALESTINE, RUSSIA & CHINA, Anti-DEEP STATE, Anti-IMPERIALIST, Anti-WOKE, Pro-GROWTH, ANTI-MONOPOLY, Pro-GUN, [and] Pro-FOSSIL FUEL”. They align themselves with Dugin and LaRouchites.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Communist_Party_(2024)#MAGA_Communism
This is just a rounding error away from actual hitlerism. This man is the chairman of the party.
Oh yeah that’s all shit and horrible. I guess I still see all of this as following from the simplified and entirely incorrect analysis (or at least it could explain it, I guess maybe for Haz it went the other way by starting at conservative and nationalistic values and then finding an analysis that supports it).
I guess the more important question than “how did they reach these shit standpoints”, it’s more important to know how to propagandize and work against it. Does the way we answer the ‘how did they get here’ question have an impact on that? I think so, and that it’s more useful to start with the mistake in class definition than to start at the nationalism as their kernel. But I’m not like super convinced of this
Damn, so it’s literally class reductionism in that they have reduced their class to factory workers who use industrial machinery
Fuck, these people are so fucking stupid what the fuck.
On a serious note, these people need to go
“national socialist” is what “Nazi” is short for; the Nazis were, formally, the national socialist German worker’s party. Nazbol is short for National Bolshevik, which was a similar and slightly earlier ultranationalist movement in Germany that from what I understand leaned a bit harder into appropriating left wing ideas.
Maga communism is effectively the same thing for modern America - “socialist” right wingers who lean into MAGA stuff to try to appeal to a reactionary base, which (I suspect and hope) is unlikely to get the same traction as the previous ideologies because said reactionary base just isn’t as big or radicalized as they think.
Take this with a pinch of salt, I am not American or an expert in either history or politics but this is my understanding.
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