• @redcalcium@lemmy.institute
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    1266 months ago

    Gamers: this game is not fun

    Game Design Director: Funny how disconnected some players are from the realities of game development, and yet they speak with complete authority

    • BruceTwarzen
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      416 months ago

      Gamers: this game isn’t fun.

      Game Director: we know, shithead, but not for the way you think it is.

  • The Barto
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    1026 months ago

    Ok then smartass, you tell us why it’s the way it is!

  • @SquirtleHermit@lemmy.world
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    986 months ago

    Sorry Emilio, but when you had a reported $200 million dollars, 500 developers, and 7 years to make a game, you don’t get to play the “but its really hard” card when people complain that your game is soulless corporate crap.

    You’re a professional, act like it.

    • Altima NEO
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      6 months ago

      Not only a professional, but a professional working at “the best of the best”, AAA studio

    • body_by_make
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      166 months ago

      Honestly I’d have tried the game by now if every time I thought about it the devs didn’t go on some insane ramble. They should really just shut up and let people form their own opinions. A lot of people will inevitably end up liking it, even if it’s garbage.

      • BruceTwarzen
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        6 months ago

        I know people really like Todd for some reason, but i find it rather sad that they spend all this time and money and manpower to build his “dream game” since he was a child and that’s the end result. Todd foe the live of god, maybe you should dream bigger

        • @iheartneopets@lemm.ee
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          136 months ago

          I could never tell if people really liked him, or if that was just a meme? I’ve always found him smarmy and irritating.

          • amio
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            36 months ago

            He was slightly less irritatingly smarmy back when. Myself, I at least took his Skyrim hype with slightly less skepticism than “lol, yeah, pull the other one” before it came out.

        • I Cast Fist
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          116 months ago

          I only “like” Todd because of how easy it is to meme him and his bullshit. Now that Microsoft owns Bethesda, they should change the BSOD to a photo of him saying “It just works”

  • @yata@sh.itjust.works
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    816 months ago

    “The game isn’t boring for the reasons that you think, it is boring for these completely secret reasons.”

    Ok.

  • amio
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    776 months ago

    These guys are getting harder and harder to take seriously. As disappointing as the game itself is, what the fuck is this? Defensively and passive-aggressively trying to argue with reviewers? Long ramblings on how unfair it is that one of the world’s most significant game studios, freshly taken over by enormous capital… gets a little criticism for the flaws it its products? Do you need to be an expert Twinkie mass manufacturing engineer, really, if a new product is, let’s say, a tenth of the size and tastes of sawdust?

    If they’re gonna insinuate it’s not the obvious reasons, maybe they should’ve served up some less obvious reasons - I’m sure they would’ve been convincing.

    • I Cast Fist
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      256 months ago

      “People have unrealistic expectations for AAA games! It’s impossible to make them as good as people expect them to be!”

      I remember lots of big studios saying that shit after Baldur’s Gate 3 officially released. The work of a comparatively small studio with a Skyrim budget (100 million USD) did what many bigger budgets failed to do. How was that possible? Clearly, it’s the fault of gamers for expecting too much!

      Side note: Witcher 3’s budget was around 34 million USD, with less than 13m for development proper, which is another good example of a game that even at release was already looking and playing great.

      • @sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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        26 months ago

        And those examples are not hard to come up with either. For example:

        • any Nintendo game
        • games with a passionate designer - "Nier: Automata* and Death Stranding come to mind
        • refined, broad market appeal sequels to popular niche games - as Elden Ring is to Dark Souls

        Starfield was a mediocre rehash of their Elder Scrolls formula, but without the interesting variation that Elder Scrolls games have. And performance sucks, so you’re paying a penalty for an average gameplay experience.

    • HarkMahlberg
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      116 months ago

      Defensively and passive-aggressively trying to argue with reviewers?

      Big “Baldur’s Gate 3 is an anomaly” energy.

      • @sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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        16 months ago

        Yup, it is an anomaly in that it feels like the quality I used to expect 20 years ago when devs couldn’t just patch flaws after launch and had to actually QA their games before going gold. They rely so much on after launch patches that games often aren’t finished until a year after release.

        • @pory@lemmy.world
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          6 months ago

          BG3 is an excellent game, but saying it’s unlike the rest of games because it “does its QA before launch” is very silly. Look at the 100GB of huge patches the game’s received, reading the pages and pages of patch notes for the bug fixes and also the basic RPG features added after launch like the ability to change your character’s appearance.

          BG3 had more bugfixes and hotfixes than Starfield did by a long shot, the difference between the two is not the absence of bugs. It’s that BG3 under the bugs was a phenomenally VA’d/Mocapped game with a great story line, memorable characters, meaningful choices, and combat that doesn’t become a rote chore or a numbers go up game with randomized loot.

          • @sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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            26 months ago

            BG3 was a complete, enjoyable experience all the way through at launch. There were a lot of patches, but those weren’t as necessary as other games, like Cyberpunk 2077 and Fallout: New Vegas. For example, character customization is nice to have, but lots of games don’t bother.

            Starfield on the other hand, was relatively bug free at launch, but it didn’t have a good gameplay loop. Outposts were repetitive, gunplay and weapon variety wasn’t particularly interesting, and cities weren’t very plentiful or interesting (Morrowind was way better in all three, and the game is ~20 years old).

            Yeah, BG3 wasn’t as solid as launches before OTA updates were a thing, just it felt a lot more like that era than most of the AAA game launches in recent memory.

    • @Fades@lemmy.world
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      106 months ago

      harder and harder to take seriously

      How many times does Bethesda have to shit in your mouth to realize they themselves are shit? Fallout 4 was a downgrade from NV, then fallout 76, rereleasing the same game over and over again, and now starfield.

      We should be way passed “hard to take them seriously”

      • @sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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        6 months ago

        I bailed after Skyrim. I loved the immersiveness and scale of their previous games, but Skyrim didn’t have that. It was a relatively small world, the storyline was barely even there, and the side content was a lot more limited vs other games. It looked great and had your typical gameplay improvements, but it was just a massive downgrade in terms of overall experience.

        I wanted Morrowind in space, and I got stripped-down Skyrim in space, which was already a stripped down experience. Either make a great dup (like Oblivion) or make something completely new and interesting. They went with mediocre dup in a different setting.

      • amio
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        46 months ago

        Sad is the word. I think “um ackchyually the boredom is on purpose” was my favorite in the bunch.

        • @didnt_readit@sh.itjust.works
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          36 months ago

          WeRE thE MoOn LaNDinGs BoRInG??? 😂😂

          I lost it when they made that comparison. Also, ya know they actually had a rover to drive around on the moon haha

    • @Krauerking@lemy.lol
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      16 months ago

      Like with pretty much all things for the last decade we hit stagnation and consistent money making with low effort.

      So clearly now everyone else is wrong or why are they making so much money? If they throw out garbage that people pay for and then complain about them why should they take the criticism seriously… I’m fact it’s just bad people trying to ruin them because they are perfect and right.

      Everyone is right all the time and everything is gold no matter how lazy. No one wants the discussion they want to be told they are right and then to move on to the next thing without stopping or asking questions.

      If we can’t impact their bottom lines then nothing will ever change until it collapses.

  • @Pregnenolone@lemmy.world
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    556 months ago

    Kind of sick of devs being such cunts and denying the criticism so publically.

    Starfield might not be objectively shit, but there is heaps of fair criticism. I fucking hated it for what it’s worth. Probably worst game I’ve played in 3-5 years.

    • BruceTwarzen
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      356 months ago

      It might not be shit, but it’s pretty shit for 2023 and 80 dollars.

    • drunkosaurus
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      306 months ago

      Kind of sick of devs being such cunts and denying the criticism so publically.

      Well this was going to be their next big cash cow game that they keep re-releasing for 10 years, and they find it hard to accept that it’s not working out.

      • @And009@reddthat.com
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        116 months ago

        Which means more efforts put into Elder scrolls 6. I dont see how this is not a win.

        Starfield will be dependent on the community who’ll do something fun with the engine anyways.

        • I Cast Fist
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          116 months ago

          Which means more efforts put into Elder scrolls 6

          Don’t get your hopes high, they can still fuck that up big time

          • @iheartneopets@lemm.ee
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            166 months ago

            If anyone thinks they won’t, then they haven’t been paying attention since fallout 4’s release. Then fallout 76’s release. And now this. No way elder scrolls doesn’t shit the bed in 20 years, or whenever it’s coming out.

            • JokeDeity
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              86 months ago

              To this very day 76 runs like absolute dog shit. They just released a paid DLC (on top of all the MTX bullshit) and yet shooting enemies is still broken and takes literal seconds in some cases to register, enemies still teleport around, and there’s no real direction or incentives to explore anything. One of the worst games I’ve ever tried to play and every time I give it another chance, nothing has improved for the better.

        • @gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
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          36 months ago

          Orrrrr “sorry guys but you wrote a dog of a game so we’re letting you all go” since that seems to be in vogue these days.

          Maybe some enterprising souls in the mod community will release an overhaul at some point, but that point will unfortunately not be soon, given the work it would entail.

        • @qarbone@lemmy.world
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          26 months ago

          I’m gonna try and save you time and money. Just wait for modders to make that game in Skyrim. I’m fairly sure Beyond Skyrim: Elsweyr isn’t as far along as some of the others, but you’ll have other major mods to play in the meanwhile.

  • Iapar
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    496 months ago

    I don’t need to know why it is the way it is. For AAA titles it doesn’t matter. Finish the game or fuck off. If you can’t do that your Company should sink and make room for those that can.

    Indies proving left and right that it is possible with a lot less.

    • @RGB3x3@lemmy.world
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      206 months ago

      The Outer Wilds has a more interesting solar system than Starfield and did it with 9 planets.

      Starfield is nothing but empty filler.

      • @Krauerking@lemy.lol
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        6 months ago

        Man, Outer Wilds was like that Bethesda magic concentrated to a fine point that stabbed right into my heart and I didn’t even want to pull it out.

        Just absolutely the best of what passion can do with the mechanics and make something feel original and unique even if it has inspiration from stuff before it.

        One of the best games of the decade.

    • @XTornado@lemmy.ml
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      46 months ago

      Ok… But if anything the game was finished so it’s a bad example for Starfield or I am missing something.

      • Iapar
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        116 months ago

        Finishing also means optimising. If it runs like ass and is buggy as all hell, it isn’t finished.

  • ekZepp
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    6 months ago

    "You all are just too stupid to understand why we made the game so boring to explore and didn’t put a single vehicle or alien ride in the whole fkng galaxy. "

    Sincerely, SF Developers

  • @gravitas_deficiency@sh.itjust.works
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    456 months ago

    Ok. But first you have to make better games.

    You can’t argue me into believing the game is fun when it’s just… overall not that fun compared to other Bethesda efforts.

    To be clear, it’s far from an outright “bad” game, but I’m still frustrated that I spent $70 on the fucking thing. If you charge that much, it’s completely reasonable for me to have high expectations for your game.

    • @BaronVonBort@lemmy.world
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      106 months ago

      I enjoyed it but I also know that it wasn’t “great”. But I’ll admit that I got it on game pass and I’m a BES nerd, so that probably elevates it more. Had I paid full price my attitude would probably be very different.

    • @sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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      36 months ago

      And that’s why I never buy on release. Studios have consistently rewarded waiting for months to a year since you’ll pay a lower price for a better product.

      The only reasons I’d buy at launch are:

      • I’m a game reviewer and somehow didn’t get a free copy
      • I’m a streamer, so that’s the cost of doing business
      • it’s an MP game and I can’t convince my friends to play something else

      I play almost exclusively SP games, I don’t stream, and I am not a reviewer, so it’s in my interest to wait several months for patches and sale prices.

    • @Summzashi
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      16 months ago

      it’s completely reasonable for me to have high expectations for your game.

      Lol

  • KyoStarr
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    6 months ago

    I think both ideas can be true: that game development is a complex, creative endeavor and that as a product, consumers can be dissatisfied with a video game they paid $70 for.

    Lately, I’m finding myself waiting for sales on AAA games because so many release in a buggy, incomplete state. This paid dividends with games like Jedi Survivor, that had a big number of bugs and performance issues at launch and plays decently now several months later.

    • @ThatWeirdGuy1001@lemmy.world
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      166 months ago

      $70

      This is why I will never buy a game brand new again.

      Company’s making record profits yet still trying to convince me they need to raise prices.

      Lower quality, higher price. Fuck that noise

        • @ezures@lemmy.wtf
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          26 months ago

          Except for gta online and the trilogy remaster, and rdr2 online. Thats only like 10 years out of the infinity of never, so its probably a good percentage, right?

        • @sugar_in_your_tea@sh.itjust.works
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          16 months ago

          They fail to deliver on PC every time, and there’s no way I’m buying a console just to play it. I’ll probably even wait for a PC sale since I’ll already have to wait for 2+ years for the PC launch because Rockstar wants to double dip.

    • @Fades@lemmy.world
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      Jedi survivor didn’t have a big number of bugs, there were some yes and they were patched almost immediately. Anecdotally, I played it starting week one and didn’t experience a single bug, you’re just parroting what you read about and framing it as the average experience.

      If you’re going to give an example, how about an actual buggy mess of a launch like cyberpunk, especially since you are also talking about incompleteness. Jedi survivor was an excellent and completed game on launch

      • @Ookami38@sh.itjust.works
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        96 months ago

        Anecdotally, I played cyberpunk starting day 1 and didn’t experience a single bug, you’re just parroting what you read about and framing it as the average experience.

        Isn’t that like… Literally the point of waiting for a review? Anyone can have a game work flawlessly when others are having massive issues. Some people may want to test that for themselves, but an increasing number just don’t want to deal, and will… Well, use the reviews to make a more informed decision.

      • 🇰 🔵 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️
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        6 months ago

        If you’re going to give an example, how about an actual buggy mess of a launch like cyberpunk

        Anecdotally, I played it starting day one and didn’t experience a single bug, you’re just parroting what you read about and framing it as a bad experience. Cyberpunk 2077 was an excellent and completed game on launch.

        • @quams69@lemmy.world
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          26 months ago

          2077 was absolutely not a complete game on launch and I have the screenshots to prove it. It might be ok now but on launch it was f u c k e d

          • 🇰 🔵 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️
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            2077 was absolutely not a complete game on launch and I have the screenshots to prove it.

            You have screenshots of nothingness? Of an absence of things?

            Or do you just have your own bullshit definition of “complete?”

  • @halcyoncmdr@lemmy.world
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    326 months ago

    Oh I’m pretty sure I know exactly “why it is the way it is”…

    It feels like every other Bethesda game ever made, because choosing to continue using the Creation Engine means you can only make games that feel this way.

    • insomniac_lemon
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      156 months ago

      Seems to me more like they repeated all their old mistakes and made new ones. The engine might’ve slowed development (and gave some influences/limits etc) but design direction seems to be the issue. Being on-par with their older games would be a step up, it’s like they missed the point of why people liked their worlds.

      • BruceTwarzen
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        86 months ago

        I mean, at this point i don’t really know why people like their games either. I loved New Vegas but never bothered after. I bought skyrim at some point and i understood why people like that game. When fallout 4 launched i was sick at home and bought it because i had nothing to do. I rebooted the game like three times because i thought i accidentally bought some asset flip scam. No the game actually looks that shit and is a horrible buggy mess. Idk if people really enjoy collecting trash for hours just to not being able to sell it, or if these games have something that i don’t see.

        • @deus@lemmy.world
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          76 months ago

          For me the main draw was always being able to freely explore their beautiful handmade worlds, be it Tamriel or a post-nuclear US. You always knew you’d find something interesting around the next corner. I’d be happy with this being just Fallout in space too but it seems Starfield is mostly procedurally generated and you can’t even drive any vehicles so in that front they lost most of my interest.

        • @ChiefSinner@lemm.ee
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          36 months ago

          For me, its the way they used procedural generation. Like its literally the same exact points of interests on every planet.

          I remember going to a planet full of high level fauna and discovering a cave where you find a dead pirate that says these things are everywhere ahhhh. I thought it was cool. Next planet I went to had no fauna, and sure enough that same cave and dead pirate was in there saying the same thing with absolutely no fauna or enemy NPCs in there.

          Its like they made 20 unique assets for the procedural generation tool to pick from. This is the exact laziness I found and drove me away from ESO. Just the same experience, with maybe a different faction here and there but the same points of interest over and over.

          Other than that, I liked it. Basically skyrim in space. But very empty and they forced you complete like a 2 -3 hour mission before stuff opened up to you. And another 20 or so hours before a mission locked skillset is introduced. Huge waste of time IMO.

          Its an alright game if you have a lot of time to kill.

          • @didnt_readit@sh.itjust.works
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            16 months ago

            I feel like that’s not even procedural generation at that point it’s just copy and pasting with a fancy name… by definition procedural generation should, you know, generate new stuff not just reuse the same couple things haha

  • wia
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    286 months ago

    I had fun with it. I put in about a hundred hours.

    It’s fine. It’s not complete crap and had tons of potential. It missed the mark on a few things for sure.

    These constant aggressive comments from the Dev team though… That I’m not a fan of.

    • @Asafum@feddit.nl
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      166 months ago

      My biggest complaint is how they absolutely murdered the modding scene for the sake of greed… They wanted their cut of a thing they had NO input in so they forced their way in to have input and in the process ruined modding for those that were good at it…

      Seeing how amazing Skyrim was with mods gave me so much hope for what this game could become and now I’m just sickened by what they did… So much potential gone. Now you’ll have to pick between what 4 mods you want as you’ll have to spend $5+ for each one… Yeah I’m not spending $100+ just to make your game fun for you while also paying you…

      • AngryMob
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        36 months ago

        Free mods arent gonna disappear no matter what bethesda does on their end. Just ignore the paid shit just like we always have

        • @Asafum@feddit.nl
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          56 months ago

          It’s the changes they made to the way you mod in order to sell mods that screwed with how modding works supposedly. Apparently a few of the good modders have already said “fuck this garbage” and bailed. That coupled with starfields flop leaves less people interested in fighting the system to get mods to work anyway :(

          • @XTornado@lemmy.ml
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            26 months ago

            But the modding tools are not even out so not sure how sanely those complains are…

    • @Asafum@feddit.nl
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      Read: console support and changes to modding so they could take more money for the lesser product they provided… The need to be on shitty older consoles kills games ambition and scope. I hate it so much.

  • @Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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    286 months ago

    “This game sucks!” “Don’t pretend like you know why it sucks!” “Wait… wut? I was just stating my opinion O.o”

    • 🇰 🔵 🇱 🇦 🇳 🇦 🇰 ℹ️
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      206 months ago

      It doesn’t have “it.” I don’t know what “it” is, but I know Morrowind, Oblivion, Skyrim, Fallout 3 and Fallout 4 had “it” and somehow Starfield does not. It is completely devoid of that “it” factor that their other games had, even if it has everything else those games had and more. It is still missing the crucial “it.”

      • @Krauerking@lemy.lol
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        56 months ago

        Well crafted lovely little places to discover even if they have no impact on the grander story.

        That’s it. Auto generated planets and straight forward hub locations makes for boring exploration but in the fallout games you could discover a school that was feeding their kids radioactive slime because they got paid too and it was just a side story. Skyrim games you could stumble upon a house that had been ravaged by accidental tunnels into a cave full of nightmares cracking open in the basement.

        Things that you stumble upon naturally while exploring and feel crafted carefully to just be a fun side off thing but if they have to put up a neon sign and make you fast travel to a location to find their little joke of a raider camp then it doesn’t feel special. It’s just a bunch of disjointed maps stuck together through a menu.

      • @Corkyskog@sh.itjust.works
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        36 months ago

        If your talking about MW3, I wouldn’t know. But the MW franchise and COD in general is an objectively shitty game. It’s just cool because you can launch it in minutes and instantly have 14 year Olds in your ear telling you how much weight your mother had recently gained. And if you were angry you could take it out in the game, and then when you loose you can just say “FUCK. OH well this game is a piece of shite anyway”. There is a certain allure to a game that perfectly manages those experiences and the MW franchise certainly had that…

      • @CryptidBestiary@lemmy.world
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        26 months ago

        I would go out on a limb and say it’s probably the joys of traveling and discovering things along the way. The Bethesda “magic” is their approach in open world game design. In almost every corner, there’s something interesting to discover (side quests, well crafted environment, and characters). When you take that away and replace it with just mundane fast traveling, loading screens, and procedurally generated empty maps, then you get Starfield. It’s a Bethesda game missing that Bethesda “magic”