While her statement is over reaching, she does have a valid point. It will be easier to raise a resistance against trump than harris. This of course benefits her the most if that resistance can vote for her and her party. But it is still a valid point among the spin.
☐ Genocide and things stay pretty much the same
☐ Extra genocide and things get worse
☐ Waste vote (get extra genocide anyway)
“Democracy”
But now you can stay at Trump hotel, Gaza! Think of the amenities!
People should be free to vote for who best represents them while still counting their vote if their preference didn’t win.
Passing state level electoral reform will not only empower the creation of stronger 3rd parties, but also force the legacy political parties to have to compete and actually represent people.
No more safe seats, no more hostage situation, no more voting while holding our noses, only democracy. More democracy was always going to be the solution to this problem. Who could possibly be against more democracy?
Videos on Electoral Reform
First Past The Post voting (What most states use now)
Videos on alternative electoral systems we can try out.
RCV please
While I agree that first past the post is the worst possible option, we need national reform as well.
STAR or RCV has the potential to break the 2 party system where votes are counted, but it comes up short against the electoral college system. As long as the electoral college is how we choose our President we will only have 2 viable candidates and the parties will have elevated power to not only choose our candidates but to elevate their preferred down ballot candidates which hobbles alternative voting mechanisms.
The electoral college combined with citizens United gives the parties practically unchecked power.
National reform will only happen from the bottom up. Need to change the local elections first and push every incumbent out of their seats. The current people in power will never cede.
France has a runoff for president
“To cut off your own nose to spite the face” is the only thing that comes to mind here.
Whoa, either they’re incredibly unaware of the recent news in Gaza or this is quite mask off about their side and goals. “the moral stain of reelecting genocide”? Give me a fucking break, the conflict was self-resolving right before Trump’s inauguration. Now he’s fanning the flames.
It’s all about perception. There’s plenty of people living in a generational walled garden. They don’t see your discourse. They don’t see consenting discourse. They see the infallible word of their chosen demagogue. End of story.
Genocide Joe stans seething over at .world
Give me a fucking break. You people are just the goddamned worst.
Those literally don’t exist, what are you talking about?
I missed you guys! Now after the ethnic cleansing are you going to stay at the Trump Hotel in Gaza or the Trump Resort? It will have golf!
He has yet to stop the genocide for that to hold a colander’ worth of water.
Hey, look, it’s [90% of the people I argued with on Lemmy before election day]!
And it’s now 90% quieter. Hmmm.
Russian stooge says what?
I’d take that as a confession to being complicit whenever we get to the US equivalent of the Nuremberg trials.
Well, Nuremberg was the heart of Nazi rule, so I guess the US version will be at Mar-a-Lago.
If a protest could work under trump why wouldn’t it work under Harris?
Very true, this guy is a dumb ass.
Assuming he is sincere, then I’d assume that he would say that it’s not “their” protests at that point but the participation of others.
Under Harris, they stay isolated without energized allies as most people are relieved with the status quo. They hope that Trump pushes things so far to perhaps even cancel elections and trigger a violent uprising that opens the door for them to ultimately win and that is their opportunity to finally replace the status quo. A very dangerous game where a more likely outcome is a far right authoritarian state with lots of suffering and lives at stake, but that’s a risk they are glad for everyone to take.
You see this in their rhetoric, that it’s not their fault for failing to support a viable alternative to Trump, it’s everyone else’s fault for failing to agree with them, and maybe now everyone will learn their lesson and agree with them.
I’ve had conversations with them and they hold that democracy is the wrong way. Essentially they think the citizenry are too stupid and/or lazy to decide how things should be governed. This is pretty much the horseshoe effect, both the far right and far left want to replace the democratic system with something else. If someone doesn’t 100% agree with them, they must be wrong and their perspective must be ignored, and democracy means actually trying to work with such people. So they prefer to take their chances with prodding a violent conflict since they’ve figured they can never win peacefully. If they can’t have the presidency, then who cares. No patience for capturing local and legislative offices.
The far right was more effective strategically, playing the game until they could unleash. They played the game with the republican party according to the rules, and then won.
Essentially they think the citizenry are too stupid and/or lazy to decide how things should be governed.
Well… Yes. This is more or less true. But that’s an argument to increase education and engagement, not to discard the whole system.
I think the education is tricky, as you have competing interests and you have people countering education by calling it indoctrination. A huge part of the foundation for the situation today started with the conservative radio shows and fox news stepping up to start undermining education, to eventual great effect.
The engagement I kind of have the opposite view. If you can’t be bothered to understand the candidates and the issues, then you shouldn’t feel pressure to vote.A lot of engagement efforts say “you should be ashamed if you don’t vote, it doesn’t matter how you vote but just vote”. If you are there to just “mark your team” or fill in the ballot according to whatever person hands you a pre-filled “ballot guide” on the way in the door, maybe don’t sweat voting. Voting for an outcome without any effort to understand the consequences of that vote is worse than abstaining from a vote.
I can understand there are a lot of races, and my response is that there would be no shame in voting only for the races you can educate yourself about. A partial ballot is fine.
Because trump won’t take over Gaza and turn it into a casino strip…hang on a minute…
you’d think that would be the obvious mindset people who “care about human dignity” would have, right?
i think their argument would be that conditions will materially worsen for a significant propirtion of the population, escalating the chances of the working class to become conscious of their chains.
idk tho
Which is stupid. The Republicans crashed the world economy in 2008, destroying 40% of working people’s wealth, and were only out of power for 2 years.
Accelerationists gotta accelerate
What about the moral stain of ethnic cleansing?
Yeah, didn’t you hear the news, Gaza is saved!
Oh wait…
I think it’s also the unwillingness of the left to accept “baby steps” towards a goal. The right is perfectly happy to inch towards their endgame and it’s working.
Agreed. I didn’t hear much if any grumbling from the US conservative base in the decades before Roe was overturned toward their politicians, provided that politician opposed abortion. It was enough they believed the “correct” thing and did what they could within the restrictions of the law, until process aligned in their favor via convenient Supreme Court vacancies.
1000% this
Okay, that’s is succinctly profound.
Don’t let a perfect plan get in the way of a good plan.
I’ve been pondering about this for an hour. Err. Idk. Yes. No. Maybe. Kinda yes I suppose?
Oh well, back to racoons and owls.
deleted by creator
“Were going to not elect genocide by electing ultra-genocide!”
🤔
Sounds like the voting system needs an overhaul if those are your two options don’t ya think?
Absolutely, but plunging the US deeper into fascism is not going to help with that. When you’re in a hole, stop digging.
“ps, don’t look at our policy concerning Ukraine.”
I am absolutely disgusted by this. Basically they are saying they intentionally and knowingly manipulated Palestinian Americans and pro-Palestinians into allowing a Trump victory and the doubling up of the growing threat of a trans, queer and POC genocide among much more violence.
You may have different opinions from me about the third party voters and the culpability they carry, but I hope we all can agree that Jason Call and company here are blatantly evil and have blood on their hands.
Hoping this can be a moment of reactionary leftist unity. Fuck every leader who actively worked towards MAGA. I’m doing my best to organize and do damage control, but not because some dumbass Jill Stein employee told me to. You should too.
I don’t know anything about the Green party except that they exist and always run for president. Are they actually big enough to have made a difference in the election? I’ve always seen them as a meme nobody takes seriously.
If every vote cast for Stein in ‘24 had gone to Harris instead the outcome would not have changed.
Personally, my outrage is at the leaders here—at the Green party admitting their goal was to elect Trump and the Democratic party refusing to give a platform people would vote for.
honestly, I have this nagging feeling that stein only runs to deliberately split the democratic vote. she knows exactly trumps position on Gaza, facism and capitalism. and she looks the other way either for personal gain, or because she supports trumps positions
That’s exactly what she does. She’s a Russian plant who runs for president every four years despite not seeking any other political office.
If you have this feeling then you should be working to replace First-past-the-post voting in your state so splitting the vote isn’t a possibility.
Yes, BUT that’s not where we are yet. And until that’s where we are, and until the electoral college is also some kind of ranked-choice, it’s profoundly immoral to influence people to vote in a way that will cause more harm and suffering.
She has been to many GOP backed events. It has been known for quite a while that she is run as a spoiler.
i don’t thing it has to be a nagging feeling even :/ i think this tweet basically proves it
i mean he basically says “yeah we did this so trump would win”
like yeah it’s with veiled language but only about as veiled as musk’s “my heart goes out to you”
Basically they are saying they intentionally and knowingly manipulated Palestinian Americans and pro-Palestinians into allowing a Trump victory and the doubling up of the growing threat of a trans, queer and POC genocide among much more violence.
😳
I’m not sure where you got all of that info. The tweet and article I read mentions none of what you listed him admitting to saying.
I point this out not because I agree with him; I don’t. I point it out because these types of responses are misinformation, plain and simple. And we have enough of that from everyone else.
We are to be held to a higher standard.
It is not remotely misinformation.
Your comment is by suggesting otherwise. If the Green party in the US were actually a serious party, they would be involved in more than just the presidential election.
So please. Stop spreading lies that the Green party is anything but what they are. Stop pretending they didn’t contribute to the rise of fascism. Stop pretending they didn’t contribute to a Trump win.
And most of all, don’t pretend that they didn’t know Trump would go all in on genocide.
Stop spreading this misinformation, greens hold more offices than all other third parties combined in the US.
There is not one member of the green party holding a federal office.
There is not one member of the green party currently holding a state office.
It is not misinformation.
Correct, however there’s more than a hundred in local offices. You people always say of they were serious they’d start from the bottom, grass roots. They’ve been doing that. Your post is misinformation created by your billionaire owners to dissuade any effective organizing in any way that would hurt them.
“More than a hundred?” “In local offices?” Sweet! We’ve got over one hundred Green Party comptrollers! We’re saved!
Utter and complete nonsense.
They haven’t been doing it at all. They put all the money into the presidential election - which they can’t win - blatantly, and by their own admission across multiple years to take away from democrats.
They are a spoiler party. Thats it.
I have stated nothing but facts, and your response is “but billionaires exist” - what in the wild wild west are you even saying?
Complete nonsensical garbage. Not interested. Goodbye.
I’m not referring to the Green Party. I’m referring to the commenter above me and I quoted the part of their comment that I’m referring to as misinformation.
That they are stating in direct reference to the Green Party.
for sure dude
