reminder that the world did not enjoy it the last time Europeans were super powerful
Yeah, they all hated each other and their internal beer hall brawl spilled out over the borders. It wasn’t that Europe was any kind of united force. Maybe it’s time. We’re fucked in the US, now.
Though I gotta admit it’s ironic AF that the Allies set up Germany with a far better constitution/Grundgesezt and government framework than our own Constitution which ended up essentially frozen because politics have gotten so bad that opening it up would have probably destroyed whatever good remained in it thanks to talibangelicals and corporate money.
I think they were talking about colonialism, not WW2
Ah, yeah that was a bad time for the rest of the world too.
Europe is the biggest provider of independence days !
Well, not the EU after the UK left. Spain and France tried but they were up against WASPs and that’s simply not a fair contest of evil.
I don’t think the world enjoys anyone being powerful
I’d rather see other powers collapse than Europe join this stupid game
Eh, power vacuums don’t last. You’re basically just asking for a Somalia situation where there’s n small powers continuously at war.
as if there aren’t any other options
World federation, superpowers, small powers. As far as I can tell it’s just a question of how big the blocs are. I don’t see how you move laterally to that continuum in any lasting way; humans are going to act like humans.
“boys will be boys” excuse
I didn’t excuse anything. We’re shit. But, it’s the way things are.
Although, come to think of it, we’d probably just elect a world government if we weren’t shit anyway. Just to coordinate things as we’re being understanding and reasonable with each other.
In my uninformed understanding of humans and their history, unifications happen only in the face of crises and threats (and far from all the time, clearly). Maybe–hopefully–the world eventually makes common cause in order to stabilise the world as things spiral out of control in a few decades, but right now our species appears more concerned about whom gets to dictate what and how humans should live and behave like.
A unified world power, for instance through a competent UN that is achieved through diplomacy sound pretty okay.
But Europeans loved it
Not even most Europeans.
Europe is not the Germans.
This time you’ll get the Vikings, the Romans, the Conquistadors, the Spartans and the people who ruled the world by the cunning use of flags all teamed together.
The British imperialists genocided more people throughout their history than the Germans. Just that the Brits took their time with it. The French, Spanish, Portuguese, Belgians, Dutch and Italians also have many million skeletons in their closet and the French massacred millions of people trying to gain independence after World War 2.
If you go to any place in the world outside of Europe there is a good chance that Europeans committed a massacre there to steal land and resources at some point in the past few hundred years.
But not now, now for the most part they’re all democratic countries.
You hang on to the past so hard and you get Gaza, India Pakistan war, the Middle East etc.
A country being democratic for some people has absolutely no indication of whether it is an imperialist threat to other countries.
Do you think the countries being invaded by the US or having their legitimate governments overthrown and fascist puppets installed care about the US being democratic on the inside? Do you think Pakistan is less threatened by India because it is a democratic country? Do you think the Serbian massacres in Bosnia were acceptable and the Kosovarians were welcoming the Serbian invaders because Serbia became democratic a few years earlier?
Also the Middle East like many post colonial areas in Africa are unstable precisely because the French and British democracies designed artificial countries in a way that will cause tensions by separating people such as the Kurdish people into many states and throwing together different people into single states. Continued military “interventions”, arming groups in proxy wars and other meddling certainly doesn’t help either. Take Libya for instance where France is helping the Haftar regime to continue waging war against the internationally recognized government alongside Russia, Wagner, the UAE and Egypt.
So many good points in one post. People have to get off their high horse on democracy. My goto is every US president since WW2 is a war criminal. Do you think the people suffering war crimes care about democracy? It would be laughable if it wasnt infuriating.
Just to bolster your argument on the Middle East all anyone has to do is look at Sykes Picot. The whole middle east is just some brit in an office drawing squiggly lines, so that the west can extract as many resources from them as possible.
Its like people forgot the ottoman empire even existed and instead just get real racist with lines like “prone to war” “stuck in the past”. Bro the US is still creating nation states in the Arab world. Of course they are going to go to war, the west is standing on their neck.
.Take Libya for instance where France is helping the Haftar regime to continue waging war against the internationally recognized government alongside Russia, Wagner, the UAE and Egypt.
Pretty sure France is not there to be along with Russia and Wagner but because Russia and Wagner is there. Russia’s interest is to grow influence and cause issues to Europe.
France is there to get cheap Libyan oil from a warlord. If that means partnering with Wagner they are fine doing so.
If France was interested in challenging Russian influence they would support the internationally recognized government and help its fight against Haftar. You know, like how limiting Russian influence in Ukraine is done by helping Ukraine, not by helping Russia allied separatists in Luchansk.
France is there to get cheap Libyan oil from a warlord.
I will need more convincing on that. But I do see that France’s involment does have pretty bad optics - and maybe reasons. But because France is not the only one there, it sure isn’t something black and white.
And I wouldn’t draw comparisons to Ukraine as the Libya has unfortunately have had so much internal instability that is not comparable - though one could say something Euromaiden and the aftermath of it but that is still order of magnitudes different starting point.
Europe is not the Germans.
The English ran laps around the Germans in terms of human attrocity for centuries.
The French weren’t far behind.
Hey, don’t forget Belgium. They didn’t have much, but it’s quality over quantity!
Hi Americans!
EU already absorbed Switzerland in this pic despite them not wanting it, so there’s that.
Undid Brexit too already
No Iceland either 😔
Or Canada.
What? That hasn’t happened yet? Oh, sorry. That’s the problem with being from the, er, can’t say. Temporal prime directive and all that.
Switzerland is 100% dependent on the EU.
That’s not true.
They are completely landlocked by the EU and their Airspace.
Also most of their imports/exports go there.
They don’t even farm enough to sustain themselves. So yes, obviously it’s true
Landlocked does not mean dependent.
They also are not completely dependent which 100% means.
Last time I looked into imports and exports of countries Switserland was around 50-60%.
Of course it does mean that.
If the EU wants, they can fuck up Switzerland quite badly.
All they have to do is to close the borders and airspace.
The claim was “100% dependent” which is extremely incorrect.
Not a single country in the world is 100% dependent.
Furthermore, the threat of an attack does not imply dependence.
That phrasing was obviously hyperbole, since 100% dependence isn’t even a well-defined statement (you can not assign a simple percentage to degree of dependence). Using it as a point to argue against is misguided at best, disingenuous at worst. You should read it as “it is definitely dependent [to a high degree]” rather than “it is entirely dependent”.
I mean they mostly are, they’re approx. 50% dependent for agriculture, so if the EU were to block all borders and halt all exports to them the Swiss would become significantly skinnier than they were before.
No shame in that by the way, the Swiss also provide the EU with lots of stuff and services that are valuable.
The top US export is oil.
If you want to do something, wean yourself off oil. Big push for solar, wind, and anything else that doesn’t rely on digging up bits of dinosaurs.
Electric vehicles, public transport, bikes, walking.
And as an added bonus, the world gets a little cleaner. Might be important, you know.
> In 2023, renewable energy represented 24.5% of energy consumed in the EU, up from 23.0% in 2022.
They’re working on it a lot faster than (most of) the rest of the world!
In 2022, renewable energy sources contributed 31% of the electricity used in Texas. Fucking Texas.
Get those numbers up. Those are rookie numbers.
The insane thing is that renewables has been increasingly more cost efficient and more ROI than fossils for a long time, especially in places like Texas. Wind and sun for days. Investments in tech and production pay off big time, and obviously keep paying off long-term.
It is just oil subsidies and profiteering holding almost all of society back for decades. But things can change.
One of the ironies of the Texas electricity grid - ERCOT - is how it accidentally created huge incentives for new solar and wind energy by trying to prop up the natural gas markets.
ERCOT operates via an auction system, wherein the electricity carriers put in bids for GWhs and producers meet those bids. When demand is low, electricity is very cheap - $10-25 MWh. But it rise rapidly during a heat wave, peaking at $3000 MWh in some instances. Gas plants don’t have any incentive to sell onto the grid at this point, so they turn themselves off until the price rises. But when a bunch of gas plants operate as a cartel, they can coordinate when they release electricity and drive up the price.
The problem is that the auction price is set on the last GWh sold but it applies to the entire sale of energy for the auction cycle. So if you’re selling continuously across the day, you can accidentally trip into a ahem windfall when gas producers surge the price.
Because green producers can’t really control how much they put out onto the grid, they’re at the mercy of the market. But if they know, in advance, that the gas companies are going to fuck with things, they can anticipate enormous profits during these strategic moments. And because wind/solar don’t need a supply chain like gas does, you can just keep building and building and building wherever you find opportune spots for harvesting (which Texas has in spades).
So the gas companies inadvertently kicked off a green energy boom by their periodic price spike scheme.
Renewable energy development being rapidly accelerated by gas companies price gouging with artificial scarcity… thereby causing Texas to move toward a post-scarcity energy economy… magnificent. What a strange world.
Don’t worry Texas is going to fix that. They’re getting ready to pass a bunch of laws that limit renewable energy usage in Texas.
They’ve been making a lot of threats. But there’s a ton of money in renewables, too. It’s a hard lift
It’s way more than just threats. They’re already passing legislation.
https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2025/04/16/texas-senate-passes-anti-solar-wind-bill/
The Senate passes a lot of bugnuts bills. Watch the House calendar if you want to see what has a chance of actually passing. It took Abbott nearly a decade to get his watered down voucher bill through, in large part because the calendars committee guy hated the idea and would book the legislation at the tail of every session.
This is what I always have to bring up when people go “bUt cHInA!”. So what? Energy independence is valuable and should be pushed for.
The almighty Nordic cock and balls
Norway should really check a doctor
Dang! Cannot unsee anymore
I can’t unsee Putin screaming at Poland at the balcans, seeing both goes together quite nicely
Why is the forsaken UK still on the map ?
'cause we know this relationship has its ups and downs but isn’t over yet
Right, like the UK is a sibling that you hated growing up, but as adults it’s not so bad and you know you’re going to be friends again once they go through their binge drinking phase.
Not only EU beurocrats are slow to process informations 😖
Data from the general population https://github.com/twosheds2/wiki-eugraph
Still too close. The mistake of Brexit was taking such an important decision based on a slim majority, you need at least an absolute majority, 66%.
I would put it more that there should have been an agreement on what Brexit would be pursued. The pro-Brexit camp promoted all forms of Brexit while there wasn’t a good idea on how Brexit would be implemented.
The UK still hasn’t solved the trilemma.
Interesting. Are those poll results sampled amongst the general population, or something more specific like from the parliament ?
Our island is full of idiots but I swear we can make this up to you
The continent is full of idiots too. Their are no reasons for us to feel superior about this on this side of the pond.
France, Germany and Italy are giving it a good go too. I think our position on Ukraine has made the UK a lot of friends in Europe. That and voting out the Tories.
Switzerland and Liechtenstein are also not member states, and Estonia’s islands are not shown.
Scotland has islands on this map, but in a really weird way: all of the five biggest ones are missing, and I’m 95% sure that one of the two depicted is actually a peninsula that the map has chopped off from the mainland
Alternatively we can just assume Norway took the islands back
They bothered to remove the non-EU Balkan states and Norway, but filled up Switzerland. This map is just terrible.
Waiting for the George Costanza move
Weird map. The non-Union Balkan states and Norway are cut out, but Switzerland is filled in.
and UK
fuk switzerland, free riding mfers
Some of you European federalists seem keen to annex and rule to ensure a full and strong federation.
Switzerland spends a fraction of what their neighbors do on defense as a portion of GDP, which they get to do because of the benevolence of those neighbors. They’re “neutral” because they know that their neighbors are peaceful which they take full advantage of while contributing nothing. Of course their neutrality also conveniently allows them to harbor the money of the worst people and regimes in the world, going all the way back to Nazi Germany.
they’re not really the neutral banking country anymore. a lot of the money fled after they started freezing Russian accounts following the Ukraine invasion.
Which is why you would want the EU to enter undeclared war on Switzerland, invading the country and replacing their local government, killing and arresting anyone who would resist.
Unite, but first, launch Orban into space, one-way-ticket kind-of way.
We have too many traitors like Orban in the EU. The work against us.
I must say that I am prepared to die to defend Europe. It is maybe one of the last causes truly worth fighting for
If even quarter of people feel like me then we cannot be beat, we cannot be defeated. We will meet there on the Vistula river to stand against the darkness
It will only be after my cold dead body that the orcs will destroy this beautiful land. The mountains, the fields, the cities, rivers and forests, the peaceful, good people.
A duty is more fitting word. We ought to protect things that are rare and precious. If everyone simply runs away before aggressor then everything is lost for certain. An orc won’t stop just because you go on your knees and hope they will have mercy. They are not people, they are orcs.
I won’t judge those that won’t be there if the time comes because I understand them perfectly. However, if we all run there will be no one to stop the enemy from destroying our remarkable, precious Europe.
If we just give it up without a fight then we would betray everything we believe in.This isn’t just about land and borders. It is fight for European values against the darkness of Russia. A struggle so our idea of the just, equal and diverse society prevails. We must protect this idea at all costs.
Anyone who is enjoying the accepting queer community and tolerance of Europe should consider to be there if the time comes. This is what we will fight for and die for if needed.
Not because some politician tells us to do it but because there is no other place in the world where people truly can be themselves with dignity and without fear. There is nowhere to run, this is the first and maybe the last place where you can be truly free.
Europa is too pure and regulated to be hegemony.
Do you think the US became a superpower by being kind and egalitarian and taking it slow? Nah, they came out the gate swinging, uppercut to Hiroshima and a roundhouse to Nagasaki, and it only got worse from there. They watched the old European powers withering under the weight of colonialism and insurrection in Indochina and southeast Asia and said “I’ll have a piece of that”.
You don’t become Hegemon by standardizing power grids and phasing out coal. You become Hegemon by selling your soul to the MIC, spinning up black site torture rooms in countries most people don’t even know the names of, funnelling guns and drugs to everyone who will take them, and bringing a fucking bandolier of hand grenades to every knife fight.
It has a lot more to do with humans being humans universally, everywhere you go, and people are as vulnerable to Putin’s and other wealthy crime lord’s tactics in Europe as they are in fucking Crimea or Venezuela, it’s just that people broadly think themselves too immune to social messaging to ever vote against their own best interest.
Such as dissolving the largest economic and social union Europe and maybe the world has ever seen just because enough people saw scary stories on TV about what would happen if they didn’t vote for Brexit.
A “world order” is literally the thing we need most to secure our future, and it’s the one thing individual people are most scared of, because the people who want to retain power are doing everything they can, without limits, to preserve that power and sow fear in every dumbass out there with a TV or computer.
Maybe Europe doesn’t need to be a hegemony. Maybe instead Europe should just be a self-reliant world power, capable of standing up for itself against other large powers like the US, China, and Russia.
capable of standing up for itself against other large powers like the US, China, and Russia.
To do that, it needs to consolidate power in some way, a way to compile all resources of united/allied countries and leverage them against other powers. IE: they would need to be hegemonic in the exercises of power necessary to maintain control.
People are repulsed by the word “hegemony” because it’s scary and often used to describe authoritarians, but we literally need to get to a single-world-government as soon as possible to secure our survival as a species. The problem is right now if we set that up, the cretins of the world would vote the very worst people to lead that world-government because the very worst people keep shoving propaganda up the asses of our most stupid people and we keep letting them.
Fair enough. I just googled the meaning of “hegemony” and it said “leadership or dominance, especially by one state or social group over others”. So what I mean is that Europe doesn’t necessarily need to be dominant in the world, but it should be able to stand up for itself.
we literally need to get to a single-world-government as soon as possible to secure our survival as a species
I’ve thought about that a little bit. Perhaps such a government could help resolve disputes. It could perhaps prevent terrible wars like those in Gaza, Ukraine, and Sudan. Maybe a single world government will happen at some point, in the distant future.
We would need to get to a post-scarcity civilization first. Something we could actually do if we all decided collectively we wanted it more than our immediate rewards and if we had guidance in that direction and leadership that also wanted it.
So yeah, probably a thousand years from now when AI runs the planet or when we’re all dead and the apes and robots can make utopia.
Get this, there’s already a thing called the European Union - almost like we’re already pretty united! :)
I don’t really think further unification is the goal here.
USA misunderstand that European State are nowhere similar to US states. If you expect Germany France and Poland to go federal and have common institution for security defense etc… let me tell you it will not happen, we were at war 80 years ago and we’re not even having the same language. Ain’t no way do I’m trusting anybody else than France to represent and defend France
We are not truly united, not yet. The shadow from the east seeks to divide us and corrupt us. Only together we can face it. So sharpen your weapons and train your body because before long we will have to defend our way of life.
The Enemy is already trying to damage our morale. He wants to leave us divided, indecisive, feeble. If we show to be united and determined we will end this war before it comes to our door
Sadly a lot of MEPs are in cahoots with Russia and hell bent on destroying the EU.
Cahoots is a strong word. They’re all ethnic nationalists who sympathize with the wave of anti-Muslim hysteria echoing through the continent.
But when push comes to shove, they’ll start shooting at one another over the border happily enough.
No, it isn’t a strong word at all. They are literally being paid by Putin. They exploit racism and bigotry, right wing populism, in their campaigns, but they aren’t necessarily doing that out of personal conviction.
At least for the Dutch alt-right party Forum voor Democratie there’s definite proof that they get money from Russia
Henk Otten is a multi millionaire who made his mint as an apparatchik of Dutch finance capital. I’m sure you can draw lines back to a dozen different countries in the region, but these calls are coming from inside the house.
Might as well claim Jaime Diamon or David Solomon is a Russian foreign agent.
or they just like money and power and ride the racism wave
Part of the problem is that - between mass media and the industrial exploitation of foreign workers - there’s enormous profit to be made in bigoted social policies.
The money feeds the media cycle. The media cycle generates economic growth for misery profiteers. You can blame this on The Russians if you like, as United Russia has cemented itself in the foundation of this cycle of misery. But (until very recently and even then still kinda) they’re bound up in the same web of systematized ethnic-nationalism as their neighbors.
The Saudis, the Turks, the Italians, the Israelis… vast economic empires are predicated on the profitability of hate.
I
generallyagree yes. I would go so far as to say that most people in politics be them conservative like or democrat like are in politics for the seat. Sure their perspective may vaguely align with their party but most will jump ships without reservations if their seat is in jeopardy. The very few who are in really to defend their ideals or democracy, it is harder for them to go far if their ideals don’t align well with power and deception both of which are currently entrenched in politics in many countries like Russia, Turkey, USA etc etc. And you said yourself actors with money also interject into this to make the relation between money/power and politics are self feeding cycle so that those without are forced to remain outside mostly.
It’s hard to get them to agree on anything let alone actually coordinate real world actions together. You are going to be waiting a long time.
We just have to through the Bell riots and WW3, but then it’s all tea. Earl gray. Hot. From thee
WW3 is scheduled for later this decade
The EU is mostly on a peninsula. The only direct threat right now comes from Russia, with maybe some sort of Ottoman Empire style Muslim Empire being a potential problem. Europe has enough coastline to easily trade in resources. As long as the US and China leave Europe alone, there is no real reason to even become a global superpower.
Seriously if Ukraine wins, then Europe is rich and secure for quite some time.
Even if it doesn’t formally unite (which it won’t in the near future), a US-independant Europe would be a superpower by virtue of economic might.
with maybe some sort of Ottoman Empire style Muslim Empire being a potential problem.
Yeah, don’t hold your breath on that one!
Europe puts a ton of international shipping through three choke points. Gibraltar, Suez Canal, and the English Channel. The US Navy is more than capable of locking down all three. So would a Chinese Navy that’s built more for blue water operations than they are now. Europe doesn’t have the air or naval capacity to counter that.
The options left are land routes and going north of England. And even going to the north of England wouldn’t be safe for shipping.
Europe would have more aircraft in the air and European navies are also rather more capable then you might believe. There are reasons the US does not train against European submarines.
