• Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
    98·
    4 days ago

    Hope he doesn’t use the position to be a massive fucking dipshit that spends the time shitting on actually socialist countries.

    The difference between his take on Venezuela and Corbyn’s take on Venezuela is a fucking chasm that shows the real difference between a socdem and an actual demsoc.

    • xiaohongshu [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      55·
      4 days ago

      He’s a mayor of a city who will have no influence on foreign policy. And he’s the best thing to happen to the American left right now.

      I honestly wish Hexbears are less cynical about things like this. Just let people take the W for once. This is a huge step forward no matter how you look at it.

      • LeninWeave [none/use name, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        52·
        4 days ago

        He’s a mayor of a city who will have no influence on foreign policy.

        I agree, which is why he probably should have said that instead of what he did say when he was asked about Venezuela.

        • xiaohongshu [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
          26·
          4 days ago

          Also agreed. He should have, but he didn’t, and it doesn’t matter.

          At the end of the day, his job is to improve the livelihood of the people, reduce poverty and homelessness in the city he’s been elected to govern. If the price is to pay some lip service about US foreign policy (which, again, he has no control over and his opinion holds no weight in the decision making process), then so be it.

          • LeninWeave [none/use name, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
            35·
            4 days ago

            If the price is to pay some lip service about US foreign policy (which, again, he has no control over and his opinion holds no weight in the decision making process), then so be it.

            It isn’t, though. He would have won regardless. It’s something he can and should be criticized on, it demonstrates either a fundamental lack of principle and theoretical grounding, or a concerning degree of chauvinism. Possibly both, and neither are good for the goal of improving the lives of people.

            • xiaohongshu [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
              15·
              4 days ago

              I don’t disagree with you at all.

              However, here on Hexbear we’ve let China - a country that actually matters - off the hook for much of its inaction, and if so, why should we hold Mamdani - a mere mayor of an American city with no influence on the foreign policy of its federal government - to such high standards?

              If China can play the long game to wait for the right moment to strike (one of the major excuses given here), maybe Mamdani the Socialist could too.

                • ufcwthrowaway [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
                  8·
                  4 days ago

                  Mamdani is part of a DSA faction which aims to produce a split in the democratic party by helping socialists and left liberals win races under the DSA banner. He absolutely has a long game. Its a stupid long game, but he has one

              • SickSemper [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
                3·
                3 days ago

                Mamdani would not have lost if he had taken a blanket anti war stance and said “I may not agree with the policies but we shouldn’t be killing or starving their people”. Simple as

      • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
        17·
        4 days ago

        no influence on foreign policy

        Consent manufacturing matters and contributing to creating a left that actively supports the imperialism the US performs matters. If you think otherwise then literally nothing the media actually does matters at all and we should all stop wasting our time with opposing any of it or trying to give people the correct takes on things because nothing the media says actually matters.

        I know that nobody believes this I just want to put it in the starkest terms possible. It does matter. You can have an anti-imperialist left or you can have an imperialist supporting faux-left if you allow this poison to go unopposed. The man may only be a mayor but he gets a disproportionately loud voice among baby leftists because the media is completely obsessed with him. You are looking at the american equivalent of corbyn mania whether or not he can actually run for higher leadership, his voice and influence will remain even after he leaves office too, much like Corbyn continues to be the most powerful left wing voice over here despite having been ejected from the labour party literally years ago now. What they say will influence the beliefs and takes of an entire left that will bubble beneath him.

      • insurgentrat [she/her, it/its]@hexbear.netEnglish
        14·
        4 days ago

        I have only a passing interest in the shenanigans of NY USA because of the insanity of Eric Adams (seriously, people just… let that go on?)

        As an outsider it seems that this is a moment that the envelope of what are you are allowed to talk about, what ideas get taken seriously, got pushed to the left. I suspect he will dissapoint, political machines are very hard to shift and no doubt he’ll face a lot of opposition but like: A mainstream pollie got elected saying shit like “tax the rich” and “set up government run enterprise” in a country that is so allergic to collectivism they regularly permit children to be mass murdered.

        Seems like an encouraging sign?

        • xiaohongshu [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
          11·
          4 days ago

          It shows that left wing populist ideas are still, in fact, popular in the country, and not at all as some Hexbears (and certain segment of terminally online left) have claimed that the American people are a total lost cause. Funny that I’ve been accused of being a “doomer” by some of these same people.

          Having said that, the election of a single mayor means nothing if there is no political movement that emerges from this. And nothing is going to get done if there is no movement behind Mamdani that can translate the energy into political action.

          • 0__0 [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
            3·
            3 days ago

            I mean, I’d say social-democratic ideas in america are more hurtful than anything, since it inherently doesn’t address the contradiction of the working classes of the global south and the west. Even if they do push the envelope, what success is that when they still inherently work against the interests of the working classes of the world at large? All you’re getting with those ideas is a v*ush worldview.

              • 0__0 [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
                3·
                3 days ago

                I think the ideological leanings of the western left are concurrently irrelevant on the whole, and considering that Mamdani and his breed are getting more alike funny-clown-hammer, they would be more hurtful to the international working class than helpful.

                If revolution in the global south happens first, then the revenues of both the proles and the capitalists in the west would be relatively decreased, since the goods made in the global south would be more expensive due to wage increases in case of intensified class struggle and even victory of the proletariat in the global south. Only once the west has been immiserated in terms of it’s revenues for both classes, will the proles blame the bourgeoisie and revolt against them, enabling them to fight against them without hurting the global south.

                It would be quite the contrary if the “revolutions” would happen in the west first, especially of variety of Mamdani and the rest. They would be hard-pressed, simply by their material interests, to actually help the global south, since their consumption funds would be depreciated. Socialism for me but not for thee. No doubt that maybe you and the other comrades of Hexbear would be opposed to this, but you would ultimately represent oscillations in a movement where the interests of the workers of the west are paramount. I just think revolutionary defeatism is the ultimate tool of a true western communist, whereas the upheaval ultimately ending in some kind of social democracy for america, which in Mamdani’s own words denounces the liberatory movements of the global south, would simply continue the fundamental contradiction of imperialism in our world.

      • RedWizard [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netOPMEnglish
        25·
        4 days ago

        This doesnt break any rules folks, and I think we’ve made the point clear. If Zohran can have an anti-imperialist position on Gaza he should be able to have one on Venezuela. Simple as.

        • hellinkilla [they/them, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
          6·
          4 days ago

          I know it’s like part of his job to know stuff but I personally couldn’t give a coherent sentence about Venezuela. I’d probably agree with the sort of general hexbear consensus but I haven’t done the work to integrated it cognitively.

          Palestine is something I have been thinking about (if casually) for 20+ years. And much more strongly for 2+ years. Doesn’t almost everybody on planet earth have a stronger analysis of Gaza than Venezuela?

          What I’m saying is, please don’t make me mayor of NYC. I haven’t read enough books. I probably shouldn’t even be the deputy mayor.

          • RedWizard [he/him, comrade/them]@hexbear.netOPMEnglish
            9·
            3 days ago

            The simple answer he could have given is “We have a president who is destroying fishing boats off the coast of a foreign nation using our advanced navel warships. Think what you will about Venezuela and its leader, these are dangerous actions that put all of us, Americans and Venezuelans in danger.”

          • Chana [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
            10·
            4 days ago

            Would you knee-jerk call it a dictatorship? This is the liberalism that DSA chauvinists default to, it’s what appeasing imperialist libs looks like, and it’s how he presented himself and therefore the hot new branding of American socialism.

            • hellinkilla [they/them, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
              2·
              3 days ago

              I probably wouldn’t now. But I can kinda imagine if I’d had a really good late night with the right person I could be influenced into it.

              He should’ve just said he doesn’t have an opinion.

              Chana I know you’re right you’ve demonstrated it over n over.

              • Chana [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
                2·
                3 days ago

                Oh I don’t really mean you in particular like I’m interrogating you. I just mean that he said something pretty bad.

                And I don’t give folks like this the benefit of the doubt. They have heard this kind of lecture many times even within just DSA. They are triangulating and/or sharing their actual chauvinism.

          • hello_hello [comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
            2·
            2 days ago

            Then it makes even more embarrassing that the DSA can’t even come up with a strategic line for mandani other than the mainstream imperialist line which, as can be presumed, most Americans aren’t even well informed about.

            Having a good line on Gaza is the difference between genocide enjoyer and not. Nobody should EVER be praised for being in support of Gaza and Palestine.

      • Awoo [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
        49·
        4 days ago

        Asking someone that calls themselves a socialist to uphold actually existing socialist states instead of reiterating the exact position of the imperialists is not an “ultra-left” concern, it’s the basic litmus test of a democratic-socialist vs a social-democrat.

      • LeninWeave [none/use name, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        32·
        4 days ago

        ultra-left concern

        gotcha questions

        Venezuela

        internet-delenda-est “Ultra-left” does not mean “left of a social democrat” and if “Venezuela” was a “gotcha question” then they certainly got him when he gave the wrong answer.

      • SickSemper [she/her, they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        30·
        4 days ago

        We’re killing their civilians and will likely kill more, explain why it’s ok to double down on “dictatorship”. You can’t really use the gotcha question excuse when he moved FURTHER RIGHT after the podcast where he was put on the spot. Did he need the gusano vote that badly? Or did he just want to help justify when we drone Maduro

      • CommunistCuddlefish [she/her]@hexbear.netEnglish
        30·
        4 days ago

        It’s not ultra-left to insist that the politicians who represent us not be imperialists. I’m glad Zohran won and I’m doing the celebratory meme circulations, but he needs to do better when it comes to imperialism.

    • purpleworm [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
      14·
      4 days ago

      I don’t really care if he talks shit about socialist or socialist-ish countries (maybe unless he bashes Cuba), overwhelmingly more important is what he does in office because it will make a huge impact on the reputation of socialism to Americans no matter how often Z disavows Marx.

      Edit: If he does anything but criticize attacking Venezuela or any other country that an American politician might support attacking, that’s something different and I agree it would be a grievous error, but you can simultaneously hate Maduro, etc. and nonetheless strongly assert that murdering fishermen is wrong and invading VZ would be a catastrophe.

      • LeninWeave [none/use name, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
        25·
        4 days ago

        but you can simultaneously hate Maduro, etc. and nonetheless strongly assert that murdering fishermen is wrong and invading VZ would be a catastrophe.

        True technically, but functionally all it does is manufacture consent for murdering the fishermen anyway. He’s a politician with a public platform, it’s a different standard than a private conversation or debate/discussion. All he’s done by taking the gusano line on this is make it likely that it will be used as an example that even “the left” thinks Maduro is bad and has to go.

        It’s also part of the long tradition of American leftists talking down to more radical leftists in the rest of the world. It’s the same chauvinism that led some DSA delegated to snub the Cuban government and visit opposition groups that one time.

        • purpleworm [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
          9·
          4 days ago

          I think his past statements were bad, but I think his overall line on Hamas would be tolerable if not for things like knowingly and openly hiring Zionists, and I think it’s like that. He’s good at pivoting, and I don’t think whatever kowtowing to orthodoxy is hugely concerning (even if we should condemn it) so long as he is using it as a means to pivot to condemning the military aggression of the US toward VZ and threats to others.

          It would be bad, it’s just not something to put as your top concern.

          • LeninWeave [none/use name, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
            12·
            4 days ago

            That’s fair, I just don’t think the condemning he did of military intervention was strong or effective enough to counterbalance the damage he did by accepting the gusano premise in the first place. And the fact that he was talked around by gusanos to a worse position after the fact makes me not confident in his commitment to even bare-minimum anti-imperialism. Only time will tell, I suppose.

          • Le_Wokisme [they/them, undecided]@hexbear.netEnglish
            10·
            4 days ago

            things like knowingly and openly hiring Zionists,

            he really didn’t have to phrase it the way he did but it’s probably impossible not to be hiring zionists considering every liberal in the country is a zionist.

        • purpleworm [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
          9·
          4 days ago

          Now that you mention it I think I vaguely remember it. Yeah, he’s a fucking chauvinist and that bothers me and I condemn it. I still think it’s a very low-priority issue coming from a mayor.

          • LeninWeave [none/use name, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
            10·
            4 days ago

            I still think it’s a very low-priority issue coming from a mayor.

            This I agree with, but it also means he shouldn’t have answered the question. He can just deflect, he’s running for mayor. He does it for a lot of other questions.

            • purpleworm [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
              5·
              4 days ago

              He usually does answer questions at all and when he doesn’t, people tend to grill him on it. I haven’t watched every interview, but I’ve watched a bunch of them (10?) and I’ve watched all the debates and I think it’s rare for him to simply not give an answer on the basis that the NYC mayor doesn’t interact with the issue.

              I also think he probably couldn’t afford to not give an answer because that would be a much stronger vector of attack on him than what I described before of simply saying “Whatever valid grievances we might have with Maduro, this opioid stuff is blatant lies and lobbing missiles at fishermen is abominable and an invasion of this country would be absurd and demonstrably only make things worse.” As you said in the other comment, I guess we’ll see.

              • LeninWeave [none/use name, any]@hexbear.netEnglish
                6·
                4 days ago

                “Whatever valid grievances we might have with Maduro, this opioid stuff is blatant lies and lobbing missiles at fishermen is abominable and an invasion of this country would be absurd and demonstrably only make things worse.”

                Agreed, this would have been better than what he did say (which IIRC put much more emphasis on criticism of Maduro). Still not good, but better.

          • Chana [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
            5·
            4 days ago

            Two of his core materialist promises are to decrease food costs and housing costs. Both of them being expensive are actually due to the rentier class, the owner class that makes money through leveraged shenanigans and not production. That class depends almost entirely on imperialism to function and when that engine slows down, it facilitates greater and more explicit fascistic heights domestically. As a mayor, he similarly has little power over that class’s actions. He cannot do upstate land reform. He will have a very hard time directly fighting real estate interests to either expropriate property, controlling rents more than they already are, or building sufficient new low income housing. Not that he will automatically lose the latter fight, but it is very likely he will fall short because of the scale of his enemies. And all of this assumes he gives it a real go.

            So, how well will he fare against those interests if he doesn’t understand how they function? When they do some capital striking will he be surprised? When there is a substantial influx of Venezuelan immigrants will he go, “well how did that happen!?” When gas prices jump, will he go on TV and say, “hold the course, Venezuela has our oil and we are liberating it as we speak”?

      • Chana [none/use name]@hexbear.netEnglish
        8·
        4 days ago

        A person so willing to talk that shit also likely doesn’t understand capitalism or the forces they will go up against, or they are actually farther to the right / cynically self-interested than they let on. These things are not actually unrelated. Imperialism is actually a dinner table issue, but a lack of consciousness means it goes undiscussed and instead folks try and fail to understand why everything is so expensive (or not) and why they have to go into work on their day off and why their new neighbors are refugees.

        The supposed dichotomy of domestic and “overseas” is a myth in the imperial core that relies on chauvinism for it’s mask.

  • SpookyBogMonster@lemmy.mlEnglish
    47·
    4 days ago

    Who’dathunk that a strategy of saying “ZoRAN MabDabi is friends with HaSAN PIKer! Who said AMERICA DESERVED 9/11!!!” was a bad strategy for Cuomo

    • BoxedFenders [any, comrade/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
      18·
      4 days ago

      I love how Cuomosexuals are blaming Sliwa for the loss as if his supporters would have voted for Cuomo if he wasn’t in the race. They were never gonna vote for Mamdani, but they sure as fuck wouldn’t vote for Cuomo either. They were so disgusted with Cuomo that they were willing to throw their vote away on their protest candidate with zero hope of winning.

  • ratboy [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
    35·
    4 days ago

    Holy fuckin shit that’s a huge margin. Really curious was the numbers are gonna be when the final votes are counted.

    No matter my opinion on the guy, special congrats to the folks who worked super hard for his campaign that are on here. You obviously made a big difference and this is your win too! Pop a bottle of champagne (or sparkling apple cider) to celebrate your effort pizza-dance (he is a slice of New York style pizza)

    • CementCityRefugee [he/him]@hexbear.netEnglish
      23·
      4 days ago

      Wasn’t it less than poll projections? Propaganda blah blah blah but it’s still kind of incredible that 41% looked at Andrew Cuomo and said “that’s my guy”

      • ratboy [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
        14·
        4 days ago

        I haven’t been paying attention at all so idk. Kinda surprised the polls were higher, I figured they would be fixed or something.

        And yeah its pretty fucking shocking that considering how much of a piece of shit Cuomo is that people would vote for him. Wonder if he got a lot of Republican votes and that bolstered his numbers? Tho I know libs aren’t absolved of being total idiots

          • ratboy [they/them]@hexbear.netEnglish
            4·
            4 days ago

            Definitely. My god the Al Jazeera instagram has been posting quick interviews with people who voted for Cuomo and it’s literally just name recognition and/or “I dont like socialism I like capitalism”

        • AernaLingus [any]@hexbear.netEnglish
          6·
          4 days ago

          Wonder if he got a lot of Republican votes and that bolstered his numbers?

          This has to be part of the story, at least. Bill de Blasio won 73.15% of the vote in his first election, with the Republican candidate taking 24.31%. Curtis Sliwa only won 7.1% of the vote (as of this comment, with 91% reporting), so a sizeable chunk of Cuomo’s 41.6% must be Republican voters unless huge numbers of them stayed home. I assume will get some more detailed data on this in the coming days.