I’ll go against the grain and say I don’t like this. It’s just going to fuel gamer misogyny more. She had a dude playing for her. It’s like a confirmation of all their shitty opinions.
I love it when my politics are phrased strictly in terms of black and white and in utter ignorance of the large space between bitter deeply seated mysogyny and jovial gender abolitionism.
I don’t think anyone in between those extremes would GAF about this at all unless they’re deeply invested in esports (in which case they’re probably already at one of those extremes, and if they’re not SonicFox it’s unlikely to be the good one)
I now believe all women are bad gamers and even worse, I suspect they buy emulation handhelds and play the default ROMs they come with, particularly the Genesis bootlegs like Pocket Monster II.
This is like when Israel does the most comedically anti-Semitic stereotypes like poisoning wells and using baby sounds to lure out more victims.
It’s bad folks. Leaning into reaction isn’t good. You aren’t owning the chuds by proving them correct and giving them propaganda, you are just fueling reaction
No, that is insulting to the victims of the genocide. When Israel did this (and still does), it was horrible, because of what they did (and still do) to the Palestinians. Not because of “painting other Jews in a bad light”. Frauding gamers in this way is almost a victimless crime. No comparison.
Certainly doesn’t help that and have done everything they can to silence not only Palestinian voices but antizionist Jewish voices too so those who do oppose the genocide are just screaming into a void where no one can hear us
You can’t seriously compare this one woman profiting off of misogyny with an entire system that devalues antisemitism through forcing the label on resistance against genocide. The issue here is not Jewish people playing into bad stereotypes, the issue is the genocide itself and maybe secondary all authorities forcing people to choose between supporting a genocide or being deemed antisemitic.
I can compare them, what I didn’t do is equate them - which is what you seem to be saying. It is the same phenomena broadly, of leaning into negative reactionary stereotypes for personal gain.
That’s not what I’m saying. I explained that the situations are not comparable because the actual harmful forces in your example don’t apply in this case.
I’m not talking about scale. I’ll repeat my point in different words: The actual powers behind the rise of antisemitism is not Jewish people doing bad things, it’s authorities who devalue the label antisemitism by forcing everyone to choose between supporting a genocide or being deemed an antisemite. There is no powerful system in place that forces people to either choose between supporting this person who faked being a pro gamer, and being a misogynist. If there was such a system in place, it would be the powers behind that system who would be responsible for the devaluation of the word misogyny and the resulting rise of misogyny. Still not the person herself.
The Dream cheating scandal was like international news lmao, and it’s common knowledge that Elon is a big cheater too and was widely mocked when that was revealed
Misogyny is never okay. Even if the victim is a fraud. If a man cheats or fakes, he doesn’t represent his whole gender and has to take no blame for putting anyone in a bad light. He just represents himself. What does her being a woman have to do with her success or failure or fraud in anything she does? This is victim blaming, because on top of (maybe fair) repercussions for faking, she is victim of hate that has nothing to do with her fraud and everything to do with her gender.
It’s not victim blaming. It’s just acknowledging the misogyny pervading gaming spaces, and how this act will intensify it. It’s not victim blaming to be frustrated about this, as the ramifications of this act will worsen conditions for women in gaming.
Ultimately the people at most fault are those doing the misogyny. That isn’t this person’s fault at all. But they did take actions that will intensify it, for their own personal gain. Being annoyed at them for doing this isn’t a symptom of latent misogyny. It’s just analyzing the action in the context it happened in. It’s about not ignoring the effects of an individual’s actions on the greater environment.
I understand your desire to see everyone united in a common struggle. But if we were, the struggle would already be won. That’s also part of the context. She gets to choose her own fights and is not duty bound to any party line and even if she were, a line that says “no cheating in gaming if you’re a woman, but it’s fine for men” would be ridiculous.
And either does this woman. So why is calling her out “misogynistic victim blaming” if her actions don’t represent her whole gender? We are the ones trying to disentangle the actions of one person from her entire gender, it’s those in this thread cheering this on that are conflating it just like the chuds do - just with the opposite opinion on whether it’s good or bad.
We are the ones trying to disentangle the actions of one person from her entire gender
Not at all. Of course, calling her out for taking is fine. This entire discussion is about putting additional blame on her, because she’s a woman and “causing misogyny on other woman” (she’s not).
Yes I don’t think she should receive any additional blame, to be clear. It just seemed like people were completely dismissing the idea she did anything wrong at all and it was misogynist to even mention that fraud and cheating is wrong, and she did let her team mates down as it reflects on them if they knew about it and tolerated it. Any additional hate from gamers she receives is bullshit, I want to be clear. Leave her alone (after banning her from esports lmao)
Was more lamenting the sad reality that gamers will go hog wild with this.
It’s not about her receiving criticism because she’s a fraud, it’s about her receiving even more additional criticism and hate and threats, because she’s a woman. Would a man receive the same level of hate for faking his career? No he wouldn’t. That’s misogyny and blaming it on her is victim blaming.
I do think a man cheating this overtly in a tournament would be routinely mocked, hated, threatened and exiled from their community. You cannot tolerate cheaters or everything becomes completely meaningless.
The team withdrawing is an inevitable consequence of being caught cheating, there’s no other way this could have gone. The team mates are victims of her actions.
Look, it’s stupid to pay attention to any of this, but your comment is ignorant to the point of bordering on absurdity. When Dream was caught cheating at his Minecraft speed runs, it was huge news, dominating the gaming news cycle for months, and even breaking into mainstream sports.
This is real small potatoes in comparison to that.
I’m not crying over the sanctity of esports or whatever, or her getting a bag, but that doesn’t mean I like the effect it’ll have. The things it’ll intensify.
The women who receive misogyny are the victims. This specific fraudulent woman, who we are blaming for the actions she committed, is not the victim. So it’s not victim blaming. Saying that this woman and all women are the same thing is the exact same categorical error that chuds make. You are using THEIR logic of all women being the same to say this.
If she becomes the victim of misogyny then she’s a victim of misogyny. Her scam does not justify misogyny towards her. That’s the same fallacy people use to justify the deportation of latinx people who voted for trump.
Yes, if. She is not, though. If that happens and people start saying it’s her fault, that would be victim blaming. Saying that she contributed to rising misogyny for her own benefit outside that context is not victim blaming because she isn’t a victim.
I don’t know how you expect any woman with a public image to do anything without getting misogynistic backlash. Even moreso in the gaming community. That she will be a victim of misogyny as a result of this outing is a given.
We aren’t being misogynistic towards her. We are just saying she directly contributed to increasing misogyny for her own personal benefit, which is not good. That doesn’t excuse misogyny, at her or any woman. It’s just a statement of fact that she behaved selfishly, in a way that will harm other women.
I’m not claiming that you are being misogynist. I’m claiming that you’re blaming the wrong person, who is also a victim of misogyny, for said misogyny.
No, that’s not true. There are thousands of men in gaming who cheat and commit fraud. She is totally the victim of way more hate than other (male) fakers get usually, because she is a woman.
I don’t like blaming the person who used a system of oppression to her advantage. Fighting the oppressive system is not done through uplifting ‘good’ and fighting against ’bad’ examples of women gamers. It’s done through fighting the actual people who keep the system in place, and in this case that is absolutely not this woman.
She did the equivalent of pulling the ladder up behind her. She is making it harder for every other woman who wants to compete in these leagues. There was no emancipatory or political nature to her decision. It was entirely self interest at the cost of other women.
No, she has no responsibility for the actions of men who actually make it harder for other women. Instead, they could just make it harder for frauds of any gender.
I don’t agree with that comparison at all. That comparison is used for women who get in powerful positions and then contribute to the oppressive system. For example, a professional woman gamer who denies all the factors that contribute to the low amount of professional women gamers and claims that women are bad gamers and that she’s an outlier. If this woman made such claims then I’d agree with you, but otherwise she’s just someone who selfishly played a system that is oppressive towards women. She’s not a liberator or an activist, but she’s also not protecting the oppressive system.
No, she is not responsible for any misogyny. How could she, if she’s not misogynistic. If she were partly responsible, that would mean, the men who actually act out of hate would now be less responsible. You’re not just blaming the victim, you’re also excusing the perpetrators.
I’ll go against the grain and say I don’t like this. It’s just going to fuel gamer misogyny more. She had a dude playing for her. It’s like a confirmation of all their shitty opinions.
The number of people who weren’t misogynysts before reading this headline and will become misogynysts as a result is 0.
I think you’re underestimating the propaganda value of this, by shitheads. And the amount of sweaty losers this will connect with.
Like imagine being a woman now, and playing in leagues similar to this. The extra shit and scrutiny they’ll get.
I love it when my politics are phrased strictly in terms of black and white and in utter ignorance of the large space between bitter deeply seated mysogyny and jovial gender abolitionism.
dialectic? what’s that.
That’s when you eat too much sugar and then your pancreas kills you.
Sounds like something from a video game, they grind to get their dialectic stat up.
Disco elysium moment
i don’t know about dialectics but i know about diarrhea
I don’t think anyone in between those extremes would GAF about this at all unless they’re deeply invested in esports (in which case they’re probably already at one of those extremes, and if they’re not SonicFox it’s unlikely to be the good one)
I now believe all women are bad gamers and even worse, I suspect they buy emulation handhelds and play the default ROMs they come with, particularly the Genesis bootlegs like Pocket Monster II.
You’re an outlier because of all the incredibly traumatic experiences Big Woman has put you through.
This is like when Israel does the most comedically anti-Semitic stereotypes like poisoning wells and using baby sounds to lure out more victims.
It’s bad folks. Leaning into reaction isn’t good. You aren’t owning the chuds by proving them correct and giving them propaganda, you are just fueling reaction
No, that is insulting to the victims of the genocide. When Israel did this (and still does), it was horrible, because of what they did (and still do) to the Palestinians. Not because of “painting other Jews in a bad light”. Frauding gamers in this way is almost a victimless crime. No comparison.
Spreading anti-semitic beliefs is a secondary bad outcome of their actions that jews worldwide now have to deal with
Certainly doesn’t help that
and 
have done everything they can to silence not only Palestinian voices but antizionist Jewish voices too so those who do oppose the genocide are just screaming into a void where no one can hear us
You can’t seriously compare this one woman profiting off of misogyny with an entire system that devalues antisemitism through forcing the label on resistance against genocide. The issue here is not Jewish people playing into bad stereotypes, the issue is the genocide itself and maybe secondary all authorities forcing people to choose between supporting a genocide or being deemed antisemitic.
This person is not in any way profiting off misogyny.
I can compare them, what I didn’t do is equate them - which is what you seem to be saying. It is the same phenomena broadly, of leaning into negative reactionary stereotypes for personal gain.
That’s not what I’m saying. I explained that the situations are not comparable because the actual harmful forces in your example don’t apply in this case.
It’s a difference of scale but not of kind
I’m not talking about scale. I’ll repeat my point in different words: The actual powers behind the rise of antisemitism is not Jewish people doing bad things, it’s authorities who devalue the label antisemitism by forcing everyone to choose between supporting a genocide or being deemed an antisemite. There is no powerful system in place that forces people to either choose between supporting this person who faked being a pro gamer, and being a misogynist. If there was such a system in place, it would be the powers behind that system who would be responsible for the devaluation of the word misogyny and the resulting rise of misogyny. Still not the person herself.
she had a less talented dude playing for her because she’s too good and it would be unfair for her to play
Dozens upon dozens of instances of men cheating at video games.
A woman cheats at video games.
The Dream cheating scandal was like international news lmao, and it’s common knowledge that Elon is a big cheater too and was widely mocked when that was revealed
Yet this is the only one where g*mers will focus on the gender
Misogyny is never okay. Even if the victim is a fraud. If a man cheats or fakes, he doesn’t represent his whole gender and has to take no blame for putting anyone in a bad light. He just represents himself. What does her being a woman have to do with her success or failure or fraud in anything she does? This is victim blaming, because on top of (maybe fair) repercussions for faking, she is victim of hate that has nothing to do with her fraud and everything to do with her gender.
It’s not victim blaming. It’s just acknowledging the misogyny pervading gaming spaces, and how this act will intensify it. It’s not victim blaming to be frustrated about this, as the ramifications of this act will worsen conditions for women in gaming.
Ultimately the people at most fault are those doing the misogyny. That isn’t this person’s fault at all. But they did take actions that will intensify it, for their own personal gain. Being annoyed at them for doing this isn’t a symptom of latent misogyny. It’s just analyzing the action in the context it happened in. It’s about not ignoring the effects of an individual’s actions on the greater environment.
Forget it, the moralizing idealism has begun. There’s no room for discussing cause and effect.
I understand your desire to see everyone united in a common struggle. But if we were, the struggle would already be won. That’s also part of the context. She gets to choose her own fights and is not duty bound to any party line and even if she were, a line that says “no cheating in gaming if you’re a woman, but it’s fine for men” would be ridiculous.
And either does this woman. So why is calling her out “misogynistic victim blaming” if her actions don’t represent her whole gender? We are the ones trying to disentangle the actions of one person from her entire gender, it’s those in this thread cheering this on that are conflating it just like the chuds do - just with the opposite opinion on whether it’s good or bad.
Not at all. Of course, calling her out for taking is fine. This entire discussion is about putting additional blame on her, because she’s a woman and “causing misogyny on other woman” (she’s not).
Yes I don’t think she should receive any additional blame, to be clear. It just seemed like people were completely dismissing the idea she did anything wrong at all and it was misogynist to even mention that fraud and cheating is wrong, and she did let her team mates down as it reflects on them if they knew about it and tolerated it. Any additional hate from gamers she receives is bullshit, I want to be clear. Leave her alone (after banning her from esports lmao)
Was more lamenting the sad reality that gamers will go hog wild with this.
It’s not her fault that gamers are misogynists. You’re basically victim blaming.
Saying that someone knowingly committing fraud is a victim is a wild take
It’s not about her receiving criticism because she’s a fraud, it’s about her receiving even more additional criticism and hate and threats, because she’s a woman. Would a man receive the same level of hate for faking his career? No he wouldn’t. That’s misogyny and blaming it on her is victim blaming.
I do think a man cheating this overtly in a tournament would be routinely mocked, hated, threatened and exiled from their community. You cannot tolerate cheaters or everything becomes completely meaningless.
The fact that all her (female) team mates were forced to step down smells like misogyny to me.
The team withdrawing is an inevitable consequence of being caught cheating, there’s no other way this could have gone. The team mates are victims of her actions.
wasn’t it an all women tournament? Was her team aware of the cheating?
I couldn’t find any accusations against her team mates. Only against her and her boyfriend who helped her cheat.
You wouldn’t be reading about this at all, of she were a man.
Look, it’s stupid to pay attention to any of this, but your comment is ignorant to the point of bordering on absurdity. When Dream was caught cheating at his Minecraft speed runs, it was huge news, dominating the gaming news cycle for months, and even breaking into mainstream sports.
This is real small potatoes in comparison to that.
Blaming her for te misogyny she and other women in the gaming community will receive.
Victim blaming? What? She chose to do this lol.
I’m not crying over the sanctity of esports or whatever, or her getting a bag, but that doesn’t mean I like the effect it’ll have. The things it’ll intensify.
Blaming her for the misogyny she and other women in the gaming community will receive.
The women who receive misogyny are the victims. This specific fraudulent woman, who we are blaming for the actions she committed, is not the victim. So it’s not victim blaming. Saying that this woman and all women are the same thing is the exact same categorical error that chuds make. You are using THEIR logic of all women being the same to say this.
If she becomes the victim of misogyny then she’s a victim of misogyny. Her scam does not justify misogyny towards her. That’s the same fallacy people use to justify the deportation of latinx people who voted for trump.
Yes, if. She is not, though. If that happens and people start saying it’s her fault, that would be victim blaming. Saying that she contributed to rising misogyny for her own benefit outside that context is not victim blaming because she isn’t a victim.
I don’t know how you expect any woman with a public image to do anything without getting misogynistic backlash. Even moreso in the gaming community. That she will be a victim of misogyny as a result of this outing is a given.
We aren’t being misogynistic towards her. We are just saying she directly contributed to increasing misogyny for her own personal benefit, which is not good. That doesn’t excuse misogyny, at her or any woman. It’s just a statement of fact that she behaved selfishly, in a way that will harm other women.
I’m not claiming that you are being misogynist. I’m claiming that you’re blaming the wrong person, who is also a victim of misogyny, for said misogyny.
No, that’s not true. There are thousands of men in gaming who cheat and commit fraud. She is totally the victim of way more hate than other (male) fakers get usually, because she is a woman.
There are thousands of men in gaming who enter tournaments and have other people play for them remotely? Citation needed
She is partially responsible now. She did this knowing it’ll aggravate it, for her own personal gain.
I don’t like blaming the person who used a system of oppression to her advantage. Fighting the oppressive system is not done through uplifting ‘good’ and fighting against ’bad’ examples of women gamers. It’s done through fighting the actual people who keep the system in place, and in this case that is absolutely not this woman.
She did the equivalent of pulling the ladder up behind her. She is making it harder for every other woman who wants to compete in these leagues. There was no emancipatory or political nature to her decision. It was entirely self interest at the cost of other women.
No, she has no responsibility for the actions of men who actually make it harder for other women. Instead, they could just make it harder for frauds of any gender.
I don’t agree with that comparison at all. That comparison is used for women who get in powerful positions and then contribute to the oppressive system. For example, a professional woman gamer who denies all the factors that contribute to the low amount of professional women gamers and claims that women are bad gamers and that she’s an outlier. If this woman made such claims then I’d agree with you, but otherwise she’s just someone who selfishly played a system that is oppressive towards women. She’s not a liberator or an activist, but she’s also not protecting the oppressive system.
No, she is not responsible for any misogyny. How could she, if she’s not misogynistic. If she were partly responsible, that would mean, the men who actually act out of hate would now be less responsible. You’re not just blaming the victim, you’re also excusing the perpetrators.
This is like when hexbear decided it was misogynistic to think less of a woman if she cheated on her partner